rw2516

That's not how it works. All your possessions are insured for a single lump sum. You don't need pictures or lists. DVDs, BDs, CDs are just regular possessions like pots and pans, sheets and towels. You make sure you're insured for enough to rebuy everything.
The insurance company cuts you a check for that amount and you hit the stores buying what you want till the money's gone.
To the insurance company a disc is the same as a frying pan. You make sure that lump sum will cover rebuying your discs. You don't have to rebuy the same ones or any of them. Use the money on something else.

My house has a market value of 90K for tax purposes. My home owners policy is for 350K. 100K is for personal possessions. The insurance company will spend 250K to build me a new house (this includes rent to live somewhere for a year). They will cut me a seperate check for 100K to buy stuff to put in the house. There is no list to go by.
You only document valuables that are insured separately. Jewelry, rare coins and stamps, other collectables that sell for over their original cost.

big e

That's what I've been saying about streaming; it's not replacing your collection, it's replacing the video store. I don't know why some collectors think it has to be this all-or-nothing with streaming. Collecting and streaming can coexist just like collecting and video stores coexisted.

Didn't most of these defunct downloading/streaming stores shut down because no one used them? If Wal-mart's digital store made money for them, I doubt they would have shut it down.

robin2099

Here's the thing. Realistically speaking if you go digital, your pretty safe if you buy it from a bigger name company. Apple, Amazon, Google and VUDU aren't likely to go out of business.

Yes, you can always say "The COMPANY MIGHT PULL MY MOVIEZ!!!" and that could happen to some maybe small independent movies. But if you really think that you run the risk of never being able to watch the Batman movies or big Hollywood blockbusters because they are pulled online your in a dream world.

As for the whole "you dont buy the movie you only buy the license for it" argument. Guess what? You dont own the movie either. How many people have complained because they upgraded their collection from DVD to Blu? How many have said they dont want to do the same with Blu to 4K? If you truly owned the movie, the company would be sending you free upgrades.What happens when the player that you have gets broken? All my Xbox and PS1 games I cant play because I don't have the consoles anymore so they are basically worthless. Can you realistically say that I "own" them? Yes BLU players play DVD's but the same people who complain about picture quality of streaming cant realistically tell me that they will want to watch a DVD unconverted to 4k on their 70 inch 4k TV.

Why So Blu?

And now they have their own digital streaming movie company called VUDU, which isn't going anywhere.

Josh Z

That's perhaps true if you only use streaming to rent movies. However, growing numbers of people now try to collect movies exclusively through streaming means as well.


First, what does it matter whether it's an indie movie or a Hollywood blockbuster. If you pay money to "buy" a permanent copy of the movie, it should not be taken away from you on a whim.

Second, suppose Warner Bros. goes through a regime change (which happens to major studios all the time), and the new studio heads decide they don't want to play ball with Apple, Amazon, Walmart, etc. anymore? They could yank those Batman movies and perhaps a large percentage of the collection you've paid for, and the Terms of Service at each of the streaming providers says that you can't do anything about it.

Likewise, the streaming provider could undergo a change of ownership that results in the new owners refusing to provide service for content they don't like (as when VUDU was acquired by Walmart and had to purge its entire catalog of adult movies) or content owned by a business rival.

You're conflating two separate issues here. The inability to "upgrade" to a new format for free is not the same thing as having your existing copy taken away.

Someone who purchases a paperback book may not get a free upgrade to hardcover, but if someone else came into their house and took the paperback away, that's called theft.

orangerunner

I was also thinking about music licensing issues in movies, which can be short-term or long-term but are subject to re-negotiation.

A title in the cloud can be dropped because of music licensing issues or the music could be replaced with another song.

I guess I have a difficult time believing that after all these years of the studios and distributors making piles of money re-selling the same product that they are now offering you "free" and up-gradable access to your favorite movie until the day you die.

Doesn't that generosity sound a bit uncharacteristic from what we've seen from major corporations in the past?

BuckNaked2k

If I were ever to lose my collection to a calamity, I doubt I'd endeavor to replace everything in it. Too much time and effort spent acquiring rare versions and limited editions from around the globe, each one unique to its place and time. I'd probably just stream or rent going forward.

BuckNaked2k

That's why it makes sense to use one of the online catalog tools like the one in my signature. Quick and easy way to document what titles are in your collection.

Adam Tyner

I sure wouldn't. I don't think I'd pivot to just streaming/downloads, but I would be really selective about what I'd repurchase.

BuckNaked2k

A lot of what I've collected over the years is OOP....maybe not so many titles, but the rare versions are gone and beyond expensive on the secondary.

Josh-da-man

I think one not unlikely scenario is that you could lose your purchased library as the ownership model is phased out in favor of streaming. The entertainment industry really likes that recurring billing model, whether it's Netflix or cable television. They're looking at the tons of money Netflix pulls in month after month, and that looks more attractive than selling someone a $20 disc that lasts forever and gets sold on eBay when tne current owner is bored with it.

Imagine that iTunes decides to shut down their music store. They stop selling albums and songs. If that happens, there's no good reason to keep those servers running, and they'll eventually wipe out the abilility to access your iTunes music library in an iOS/OS update. And then expect you to start paying $10 or $20 a month for their streaming service -- all of your purchased music and more is now available to you from anywhere for a low monthly fee! And ownership of your digital music library is gone like that.

And then, in a few years, your tv and movie purchases are gone just like that.

Alan Smithee

That happened within the first month or so of having my first "smart TV" with Vudu access (previously, you had to buy a special Vudu Box just to get it), and I thought it was really cool but I was mad when the adult content was yanked after the Wal-Mart purchase. I didn't buy any of those titles (though there were a few I'd meant to rent when I had time to watch them), but was still pissed at the concept that someone else could decide that something wasn't "suitable" and remove it.

It seems like people who even remember when Vudu had porn like to gloss over it now- those who don't like porn say it doesn't matter because porn is dirty, bad, or just plain stupid so you shouldn't watch it anyways. Some who do like porn say "Who pays for porn nowadays anyways?" But the point is that this was material they had for purchase, that should have stayed in the libraries of anyone who bought it, that was then pulled. Although those purchases were refunded, I wouldn't like it if someone broke in and took my DVDs but left the money I paid for them in their place.

Music rights are of course another issue and something that could affect movies on streaming services. Paramount was one of the worst studios for replacing music in the 80s and 90s- in fact while the original VHS editions of Saturday Night Fever and Airplane II had all music intact, they were both reissued a few years later with altered music- Airplane II had just about EVERY copyrighted musical work replaced with generic music, ruining many of the jokes, and the ending credits were re-done using video-based characters in order to omit the music credits. The music rights for both movies were later worked out and they were put out properly again, but imagine if they'd only been available on streaming and replaced with the altered versions for a few years.

rjh_54

I feel like I've seen this a lot in TV shows as well, mostly shows from before the 2000s. So many shows over the years have suffered from music replacement issues and unfortunately those issues are carried over to streaming.

Thankfully, though, I think those days are over. I think that nowadays when shows license music for use they take home media into account and license the music for streaming / DVD / BD releases as well.

TheBang

I cited that one because it was Walmart, specifically. If you didn't know, the first 4 years (2004-2008) of that music store's existence, they sold DRM-laden WMA files exclusively. I can find no evidence that those DRM servers are still in service (the instructions provided in the article you quoted don't work), so anyone who invested in music from that store during that period is no longer able to authorize new devices to play their purchases.

But, if you require a more recent example, you need look no further than CinemaNow, which disappeared without warning, taking everyone's non-UV video with it, including all Disney purchases since they were never a DMA retailer. That also took out anyone's non-UV, non-DMA Target Ticket purchases, which had imploded earlier and transferred everything to CinemaNow.

And, of course, UV itself is on its last legs, with no indication yet that they've come to any sort of agreement with MA to honor everyone's entitlements.

orangerunner

There's no basic template for licensing music in movies. Some songs are more expensive than others or rights that were formerly held by one music distributor get moved to another etc.

Some music rights may allow them to press 50,000 DVDs. Any more than 50,000 would be up for re-negotiation.

Think about a film like "Risky Business" in which the Tom Cruise character lip-syncs to the words of "Old-Time Rock n' Roll" by Bob Seger.

If the studio and the music rights holders ever got into financial tug-of-war regarding licensing, this entire scene would probably have to be removed from the film. You can't just substitute another song in its place.

Gizmo

I think everyone is forgetting Wal-Mart also REFUNDED everyones purchases in full once the adult service shut down...in 2010. A lot has changed in 8 years in the digital world. VUDU was really the only game in town next to Apple and Wal-mart bought them out back when they were hardware based (I even had that box with the silly remote and free Bourne HDX title).

Gizmo

Pretty sure most of the CinemaNow stuff was transferred over to UV/Vudu/whatever. Some people were able to buy vaulted Disney titles and get them ported over. It's been a while but I'm sure I can dig up a thread or two on that.

Recently Flixster shutdown but all of my purchases moved over to VUDU (including TV Shows that were only redeemable on Flixster like Adventure Time). I was pretty happy.

For Target:
"Luckily, Target initiated deals with both CinemaNow and Disney Movies Anywhere to transfer those digital purchases free-of-charge. And, if a customer finds that a title is not supported by CinemaNow, they can even request a store credit from the service.

Also, keep in mind that some purchases on Target Ticket may have been supported by UltraViolet, so titles should be accessible on UV-supporting platforms such as Vudu."


At this point, DMA, Google, VUDU, Apple, Amazon are not going anywhere. With the new DMA, once all studios support it, it really doesn't matter if one of them shuts down.

bruceames

Bottom line is that if something happens to your digital collection then you'll either have another service to view them on, or you'll be fully compensated for your loss.

Personally I don't care about digital because physical will always be better quality. The times I do prefer digital however is 1) if a movie I want to see is only available in digital or the HD/UHD version is only available in digital. I'll always want to watch the best quality presentation. The digital HD version is usually a little better than the DVD, and the digital UHD is usually better than the BD (especially if it has HDR). Or 2), it's VERY convenient for my grandkids, who don't care about quality. They can easily access my VUDU collection and I don't have to hassle with pulling out discs for them to watch.

orangerunner

I didn't even realize Flixster had been shutdown. I have about 20 or so UV code movies on there, although I don't think I've ever actually watched one.

Nice of them to send out a "heads-up" notice. The Flixster website does not even mention this outright, it just directs you to Google Play, Apple Store or Fandango.com.

I guess my movies are available somewhere out there.

rjh_54

I didn't realize licensing worked like that (x amount of copies of discs allowed, etc). I had always just assumed once the rights were granted it was for a certain amount of time, not a certain amount of copies pressed. Very interesting

And you are right. I have seen shows on DVD that have had entire scenes cut because of music issues like this - if there's someone performing a song or there's a musical guest, their scenes are simply removed.

I was more referring to different types of music use, like background music, scene transitions - basically any time where music is used but the exact type of music isn't essential - it's so cringeworthy to see studios replace original music with something generic, or (in rare cases) nothing at all.

orangerunner

I'm not a copyright lawyer or anything but I know music has what they call "mechanical rights" which is a physical limitation of how many DVDs or CDs can be pressed, depending on the individually negotiated license from the original rights holders. I'm not sure if streaming has a cap or not, I assume it would as it's very easy to keep count how many times a film has been streamed.

Starting in the 1970s and 1980s the studios which usually had a music division and would create songs especially for movies which, I assume, gives them greater control of maintaining those songs without being extorted during a re-negotiation process.

"What a Feeling" from Flashdance, "My Heart Will Go On" from Titanic etc were all recorded especially for the film and are less likely to have any issues in the future.

I wonder about a movie like American Graffiti, which is littered with old music. At some point will songs just cost too much money to maintain them in the film going forward? Without the promise of the previous DVD-like revenue, will it be worth it?

If you remember the TV show "Booker" (21 Jump Street spinoff from 1989) there was an episode where the Booker character is trying to find BB King's stolen guitar. This episode was left-out of the DVD package because of the music rights. Not only BB King's music but this episode also had a cover of The Who's "I Can't Explain" during a concert sequence as well.

Given the number of copies they felt they could sell, it just wasn't worth the money.

bruceames

Adam Tyner

A mechanical license is for audio only. Once there are moving images associated with it, you're talking about a synchronization license instead.

I've never heard of anything like what you're describing applying to home video. Licensing music being limited to certain regions, yes. Licensing music for a particular period of time, yes. Licensing music in perpetuity, yes. Licensing fees being tied to sales rather than a flat rate, yes. The per-unit rate increasing when a certain threshold of DVDs (or whatever) manufactured is crossed, yes. ...but "you can use this song on home video, but only for 10,000 units, full stop"? I've never come across that. (Not that I'm an expert, but I was fascinated when I first heard about sync rights ~15 years ago and read entirely too much about all that.)

The hiccups I read about most frequently are trying to untangle who actually holds the rights to a given song and coming to an agreement over licensing fees/rates. Also, there's a reason why this happens so much more often with TV shows than with movies; the major movie studios have long made it a point to license the rights to songs in perpetuity, whereas that wasn't as much of a concern for TV. There are exceptions, such as how you'll hear the original song when a movie airs on TV but not on home video; this was the case with Weird Al's "This Is the Life" on Johnny Dangerously for a while there, for anyone who remembers that. But that really doesn't happen often at all for feature films.

robin2099

I meant it in terms of the complaint you always see online where people say "I have to buy physical! What happens if I ever want to watch(insert name here) and cant find it online!"

Because the odds of that happening are really, really slim. The studios need streaming way more than they need physical media right now. Because the have low overhead on the product online and can make more from it. No studio head would be stupid enough to pull the movies they have from a streaming site. Even with Disney and Amazon bickering you can still find their movies on Amazon streaming.

Not really. Like I said earlier, you may own it in a physical sense, but if your unable to play it you dont really own it. Go ahead and have your copy die and try and send a letter to the studio demanding a new copy since you "own it".

But that still doesnt change the fact that you just bought a license to have that product and thats it. If someone comes to your house and steals your movie, yes thats theft. By the same token, go write the studio and say that your copy was stolen and you want another one and wait by the mailbox for it to be sent. You will be waiting for a long time.

orangerunner

This seemed to happen to quite a few films like Fast Times at Ridgemont High which on TV had a lot of the theatrical music whereas the VHS tape had probably a half-dozen or so new replacement tracks. The DVD seemed to secure the rights to most (possibly all) of the original theatrical tracks.