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Old 02-13-18, 09:15 PM   #4976
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Re: Blu-ray and DVD sales - We're number 2, but we try harder

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Tyner View Post
"you can use this song on home video, but only for 10,000 units, full stop"? I've never come across that. (Not that I'm an expert, but I was fascinated when I first heard about sync rights ~15 years ago and read entirely too much about all that.)
I could very well be just talking out my arse, I don't claim to be an expert either.

Take a title like Christine when it first came out on Blu-ray from Twilight Time and was capped at 3,000 units.

Did the high royalty costs of the music factor into Twilight Time not wanting to license the title for a larger quantity?

I know they capped several titles at the same quantity for reasons other than music-associated rights but I'm pretty sure one aspect of music licensing is dictated by the quantity of reproductions made - whether it's "mechanical" or "synchronization" rights.
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Old 02-13-18, 11:35 PM   #4977
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Re: Blu-ray and DVD sales - We're number 2, but we try harder

Quote:
Originally Posted by orangerunner View Post
Take a title like Christine when it first came out on Blu-ray from Twilight Time and was capped at 3,000 units.

Did the high royalty costs of the music factor into Twilight Time not wanting to license the title for a larger quantity?
No.

That is Twilight Time's business model, where they purchase the rights to produce a limited run of blu-ray discs for select titles. It's usually three years and 3000 pieces. This way all of their studio licensing is up front, and then they produce a limited edition product and directly sell them to consumers, which probably gives them higher profit margins than going through the regular distribution channel.

It has little, if anything, to do with music rights.
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Old 02-14-18, 06:04 AM   #4978
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Re: Blu-ray and DVD sales - We're number 2, but we try harder

This probably an unusual situation. The 80s show Werewolf was shot on tape in such a way that the audio cannot be separated from the video. The only option is to completely remove the scenes with music they can't get rights to.
In the pilot a Mike and Mechanics song that's pretty long (Can You Hear Me Calling?) plays during a nightclub scene with a werewolf attack in the parking lot. They can't use it.
Probably never become available.
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Old 02-14-18, 08:20 AM   #4979
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Re: Blu-ray and DVD sales - We're number 2, but we try harder

Twilight Time's business model of 3000 units was solely to stimulate demand for their high prices. Only if people think the movie is limited and will not be around long will they justify paying $30 for it. It worked for several years but now they discount them to $10 or sometimes less (usually the older the release the less it sells for) with almost constant sales.

3000 units is a lot for a catalog anyway, even back then. Most catalogs sell far less than that. But many people think that 3000 is not enough for the market so they get sucked in and decide to put in front of their queue and buy it before it's gone. That's not happening anymore of course. The only ones that sell out are those that are on sale (usually $10 or less).

Last edited by bruceames; 02-14-18 at 08:27 AM.
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Old 02-14-18, 08:38 AM   #4980
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Re: Blu-ray and DVD sales - We're number 2, but we try harder

Quote:
Originally Posted by rw2516 View Post
The 80s show Werewolf was shot on tape in such a way that the audio cannot be separated from the video.
Nitpicking, but Werewolf was shot on 35mm. Wouldn't surprise me if all the post-production was handled on video, since that was definitely in full swing around this time.

From the sound of things, the separated stems were lost or discarded, so the only thing that was left was the final, mixed audio. Since the songs were baked in, the options from there were awfully limited.
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Old 02-14-18, 08:47 AM   #4981
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Re: Blu-ray and DVD sales - We're number 2, but we try harder

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Originally Posted by orangerunner View Post
I didn't even realize Flixster had been shutdown. I have about 20 or so UV code movies on there, although I don't think I've ever actually watched one.

Nice of them to send out a "heads-up" notice. The Flixster website does not even mention this outright, it just directs you to Google Play, Apple Store or Fandango.com.

I guess my movies are available somewhere out there.
They did give notice, I think for a few months. All of my stuff got ported to VUDU (where it was anyway, thanks to UV). Only the TV Shows that were stuck on Flixster got ported over since those typically don't have UV rights.

I never used Flixster except redeeming codes and "glitches". The app was terrible
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Old 02-14-18, 08:49 AM   #4982
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Re: Blu-ray and DVD sales - We're number 2, but we try harder

Searching my email, Flixster definitely gave notice.
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Old 02-14-18, 08:51 AM   #4983
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Re: Blu-ray and DVD sales - We're number 2, but we try harder

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Tyner View Post
Nitpicking, but Werewolf was shot on 35mm. Wouldn't surprise me if all the post-production was handled on video, since that was definitely in full swing around this time.

From the sound of things, the separated stems were lost or discarded, so the only thing that was left was the final, mixed audio. Since the songs were baked in, the options from there were awfully limited.
Wasn't the TV on DVD release cancelled because of that issue a few years back?
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Old 02-14-18, 09:11 AM   #4984
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Re: Blu-ray and DVD sales - We're number 2, but we try harder

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Originally Posted by Gizmo View Post
Wasn't the TV on DVD release cancelled because of that issue a few years back?
Yeah.

Quote:
Thank you very much for your post, David. That is exactly the situation. Damned if we do, Damned if we don't.
There was no way we were going to cut the show in order to release it.

Many people continue to say "why did you announce it when it wasn't cleared?".... because it looked like there was no issues when we reviewed the artists and publishers. We also just cleared "thirtysomething", the show that couldn't be cleared due to the amount of songs, so there was no indication that this show would be a problem.

Without the audio tracks we couldn't replace the music.... and we were not going to go into a studio and re-record the dialogue, the cost of doing that correctly would be too expensive.

So, for us, the only option was to cancel the show. We didn't like this option. We spent money on the show that we will never be able to recoup.

I'm sorry this is so disappointing to the fans. That was never our intention. We didn't want to put out an inferior product.

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Shout Factory
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Old 02-14-18, 09:29 AM   #4985
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Re: Blu-ray and DVD sales - We're number 2, but we try harder

Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh-da-man View Post
No.

That is Twilight Time's business model, where they purchase the rights to produce a limited run of blu-ray discs for select titles. It's usually three years and 3000 pieces. This way all of their studio licensing is up front, and then they produce a limited edition product and directly sell them to consumers, which probably gives them higher profit margins than going through the regular distribution channel.

It has little, if anything, to do with music rights.
We don't necessarily know the behind-the-scenes contract of how much Twilight paid for licensing on each title. The music isn't free - the rights holders do get paid and it's built into the licensing cost in some form.

Perhaps Twilight accepted a smaller profit margin when compared to other titles. The manufacturing costs of pressing 3,000 units of any said title is pretty much a fixed cost.
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Old 02-17-18, 10:03 PM   #4986
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Re: Blu-ray and DVD sales - We're number 2, but we try harder

Updated thru week ending 2/3/18
Table of Blu-ray sales (HMM and DEG)
numbers are in (revenue) millions.
Weekly figures are from HMM (Home Media Magazine)

Code:
Week Date      OD     OD YoY      DVD    DVD YoY       BD    BD YoY  BD Share  TBO2017 TBO2016

2018 HMM     310.18   -17.0%     192.81   -21.9%     117.38   -7.4%    37.8%     768.5   575.7

5   2/3       56.29   -28.2%      37.88   -26.7%      18.41  -31.2%    32.7 %     51.8   159.2
4   1/27      58.95   -19.3%      35.92   -24.6%      23.04   -9.2%    39.1 %     86.0    52.0
3   1/20      64.03    -7.6%      37.97   -18.1%      26.06   13.5%    40.7 %    161.2   127.6
2   1/13      68.98    -8.8%      41.08   -16.2%      27.90    4.7%    40.4 %    398.5   191.3
1   1/6       61.93   -19.8%      39.96   -23.4%      21.97  -12.4%    35.5 %     71.1    45.6

2017 HMM    4709.40   -13.4%    2821.76   -17.3%    1887.65   -6.8%    40.1%   10508.2 11900.9

Q4   HMM    1423.53   -22.4%     867.51   -23.1%     556.04  -21.3%    39.1%    2496.8  3568.0


52  12/30     81.24   -13.3%      49.95   -15.0%      31.29  -10.3%    38.5 %     49.6    69.1
51  12/23    193.26   -31.2%     117.63   -31.0%      75.63  -31.5%    39.1 %    292.0   299.4
50  12/16    147.11   -32.3%      90.63   -28.4%      56.48  -37.8%    38.4 %    154.9   502.9
49  12/9     118.29   -33.8%      74.56   -30.4%      43.73  -38.8%    37.0 %    303.9   539.1
48  12/2     126.21   -21.2%      78.17   -21.3%      48.04  -21.0%    38.1 %     31.3   233.8
47  11/25    242.10   -13.0%     144.88   -15.7%      97.22   -8.5%    40.2 %    149.9   144.0
46  11/18     72.18   -37.2%      46.53   -27.9%      25.65  -49.1%    35.5 %    117.6   486.6
45  11/11     80.34    -2.3%      46.46   -16.1%      33.89   26.1%    42.2 %    181.1   101.2
44  11/4      68.91   -25.2%      44.56   -22.1%      24.35  -30.3%    35.3 %     81.6   295.6
43  10/28     72.23     0.5%      44.57   -11.7%      27.66   29.1%    38.3 %    339.8   113.9
42  10/21     77.71    -8.9%      43.48   -20.9%      34.23   12.7%    44.0 %    452.3   194.5
41  10/14     66.95   -27.0%      41.76   -27.4%      25.19  -26.4%    37.6 %    164.5   347.7
40  10/7      77.00   -11.6%      44.33   -16.7%      32.68   -3.6%    42.4 %    178.4   240.3

Q3   HMM     971.84    -8.5%     577.81   -15.1%     394.04    3.1%    40.5%    2461.3  2480.5

39  9/30      74.02   -10.5%      42.68   -15.5%      31.35   -2.7%    42.3 %    176.3   286.2
38  9/23      88.62     0.2%      45.32   -11.5%      43.29   16.2%    48.9 %    460.6   158.5
37  9/16      66.52   -34.1%      41.87   -25.9%      24.66  -44.5%    37.1 %    176.7   521.6
36  9/9       66.99   -16.8%      42.78   -21.2%      23.92   -7.6%    35.9 %     94.5   141.9
35  9/2       76.77   -11.5%      44.34   -21.4%      32.43    6.9%    42.2 %     74.9   420.6
34  8/26      89.64    19.2%      44.75   -13.5%      44.89   91.3%    50.1 %    389.7   102.5
33  8/19      69.55    -3.2%      43.98   -12.1%      25.57   17.3%    36.8 %    157.8   128.5
32  8/12      65.32    -0.7%      43.11   -10.1%      22.21   24.4%    34.0 %    108.9     4.2
31  8/5       68.55    -9.0%      44.70   -13.4%      23.85    0.5%    34.8 %     79.3    78.9
30  7/29      75.57    -2.3%      45.15   -10.5%      30.42   13.1%    40.3 %    252.1   145.4
29  7/22      77.90   -19.5%      46.10   -13.2%      31.79  -27.2%    40.8 %    183.8   345.7
28  7/15      87.91     2.1%      49.66   -10.9%      38.25   25.9%    43.5 %    288.9   140.2
27  7/8       64.78   -13.7%      43.37   -14.9%      21.41  -11.3%    33.1 %     17.9     6.4

Q2   HMM    1121.50    -4.9%     637.12   -10.1%     484.35    2.9%    43.2%    3044.2  2989.7

26  7/1       71.44    -9.1%      44.95   -16.4%      26.49    6.7%    37.1 %    117.6   185.8
25  6/24      76.11    -0.6%      46.93    -9.9%      29.18   19.3%    38.3 %     33.4    72.4
24  6/17     105.28     7.5%      55.01   -10.2%      50.27   37.0%    47.7 %    276.5   175.6
23  6/10     108.48     1.2%      52.23   -13.6%      56.26   20.4%    51.9 %    520.6   434.0
22  6/3       72.52     4.1%      45.41   -11.5%      27.10   11.7%    37.4 %    106.2    74.0
21  5/27      81.33   -11.5%      44.57    -9.5%      36.75   55.2%    45.2 %    456.6   140.1
20  5/20      67.70   -11.9%      41.29   -17.0%      26.41   -2.6%    39.0 %     79.7    61.1
19  5/13      76.67   -28.1%      47.03   -16.6%      29.64  -41.0%    38.7 %    115.0   403.7
18  5/6       71.29   -11.5%      45.76   -16.3%      25.33   -1.5%    35.8 %    114.3   112.8
17  4/29      74.86    -3.5%      44.17   -14.1%      30.68   17.4%    41.0 %    181.6   140.5
16  4/22      70.83   -15.1%      43.41   -16.9%      27.41  -12.2%    38.7 %    171.8   225.2
15  4/15     117.63    32.1%      66.62    26.7%      51.01   40.9%    43.4 %    281.6    26.6
14  4/8      127.36   -18.9%      59.74    -6.2%      67.62  -27.6%    53.1 %    589.4   938.0

Q1   HMM    1192.53   -12.3%     739.32   -17.4%     453.22   -2.5%    38.0%    2505.9  2862.7

13  4/1      112.95    24.4%      60.55    -0.2%      52.40   73.8%    46.4 %    344.2   118.2
12  3/25     103.13   -28.7%      59.67   -35.5%      43.46  -16.7%    42.1 %    340.2   433.9
11  3/18      98.33   -12.1%      62.34   -17.5%      35.99   -0.9%    36.6 %    191.2   295.0
10  3/11     121.64    23.2%      67.49    -0.4%      54.15   74.6%    44.5 %    267.7   162.7
9   3/4      107.76     6.5%      63.76    -7.5%      44.00   36.5%    40.8 %    310.3   184.5
8   2/25      93.03   -12.0%      61.94   -12.3%      31.09  -11.3%    33.4 %    143.1   190.7
7   2/18      89.28    -8.3%      58.05   -14.9%      31.23    7.3%    35.0 %    123.5   101.2
6   2/11      92.58   -23.3%      58.63   -25.2%      33.95  -19.8%    36.7 %    210.1   266.0
5   2/4       78.85   -22.1%      51.94   -20.0%      26.91  -25.8%    34.1 %    159.2   123.2
4   1/28      72.94   -25.9%      47.60   -27.1%      25.34  -23.5%    34.7 %     52.1    97.3
3   1/21      69.27   -31.1%      46.31   -26.5%      22.97  -38.9%    33.2 %    127.6   302.3
2   1/14      75.60   -24.5%      48.94   -19.9%      26.66  -31.6%    35.3 %    191.3   449.5
1   1/7       77.17   -12.5%      52.10    -9.6%      25.07  -18.0%    32.5 %     45.6   138.3

2016 HMM    5453.79    -9.0%    3430.39   -13.5%    2023.41   -0.5%    37.1%   11887.0 10533.0

Q4   HMM    1846.85   -13.1%    1136.34   -13.3%     710.53  -12.9%    38.5%    3565.4  3309.2

52  12/31     94.19   -23.2%      59.19   -22.3%      35.01  -24.7%    37.2 %     69.0   109.1
51  12/24    282.55     1.6%     171.74     1.2%     110.81    2.1%    39.2 %    298.5   105.5
50  12/17    218.73   -17.6%     127.64   -19.2%      91.09  -15.3%    41.6 %    502.4   417.4
49  12/10    179.82   -17.0%     108.07   -14.0%      71.75  -21.2%    39.9 %    538.7   532.3
48  12/3     161.58    -3.7%     100.45    -8.4%      61.13    5.1%    37.8 %    233.7    19.6
47  11/2     280.33    -4.3%     173.78    -9.5%     106.55    5.5%    38.0 %    144.0    87.9
46  11/19    116.00    13.5%      65.09    -3.3%      50.91   45.8%    43.9 %    486.6    52.6
45  11/12     82.80   -24.8%      55.69   -20.7%      27.11  -31.9%    32.7 %    101.2   230.8
44  11/5      92.68   -27.5%      57.51   -25.7%      35.18  -30.3%    38.0 %    295.6   420.1
43  10/29     72.35   -29.5%      50.73   -22.6%      21.62  -41.6%    29.9 %    113.6   217.9
42  10/22     85.81   -35.3%      55.20   -19.1%      30.61  -52.4%    35.7 %    194.6   697.4
41  10/15     92.22   -13.7%      57.73    -9.6%      34.49  -19.8%    37.4 %    347.6   290.2
40  10/8      87.79   -11.6%      53.52   -19.2%      34.27    3.8%    39.0 %    240.2   128.4

Q3   HMM    1062.92    -7.8%     680.69   -14.7%     382.21    7.6%    36.0%    2480.1  2303.8

39  10/1      83.38   -28.0%      50.61   -29.4%      32.77  -25.8%    39.3 %    286.0   650.0
38  9/24      88.47    -6.9%      50.51   -18.8%      37.95   15.6%    42.9 %    158.3   185.3
37  9/17     100.88   -18.7%      56.65   -18.7%      44.22  -12.9%    43.8 %    521.4   584.4
36  9/10      80.07     0.1%      54.37    -7.1%      25.70   19.6%    32.1 %    141.9    43.9
35  9/3       86.79    -2.0%      56.56    -7.8%      30.23   11.0%    34.8 %    420.5   163.8
34  8/27      75.45     3.0%      51.95    -5.7%      23.50   29.4%    31.1 %    103.0    27.9
33  8/20      71.78    -5.7%      50.09   -12.0%      21.69   13.2%    30.2 %    128.5     7.8
32  8/13      65.55   -16.8%      47.80   -18.8%      17.75  -10.8%    27.1 %      4.2    67.2
31  8/6       75.00   -18.8%      51.34   -20.4%      23.66  -15.1%    31.5 %     78.9   166.8
30  7/30      77.19   -11.2%      50.45   -16.7%      26.74    1.3%    34.6 %    145.1   182.1
29  7/23      96.62    25.8%      53.10    -5.4%      43.52  110.3%    45.0 %    345.7     3.7
28  7/16      85.82    -6.5%      55.62   -12.8%      30.20    8.0%    35.2 %    140.2   185.9
27  7/9       75.92    -1.5%      51.64   -11.5%      24.28   29.7%    32.0 %      6.4    35.1

Q2   HMM    1188.41     4.3%     716.43    -9.5%     471.98   35.9%    39.7%    2985.4  1764.1

26  7/2       79.30    -1.7%      54.21   -10.4%      25.08   24.6%    31.6 %    185.8   115.1
25  6/25      77.13     0.6%      52.63    -6.9%      24.50   21.5%    31.8 %     72.4     0.1
24  6/18      98.65     1.9%      61.90    -4.9%      36.75   15.7%    37.3 %    175.5   100.5
23  6/11     107.74    19.3%      60.99    -1.2%      46.75   63.7%    43.4 %    431.8   185.5
22  6/4       76.29   -22.2%      51.94   -20.9%      24.35  -24.7%    31.9 %     73.8   309.0
21  5/28      73.60   -12.0%      49.82   -14.9%      23.78   -5.1%    32.3 %    140.1    23.6
20  5/21      77.54   -26.5%      50.34   -25.8%      27.20  -27.9%    35.1 %     61.1   376.0
19  5/14     107.18    23.1%      56.93    -6.0%      50.25   89.4%    46.9 %    403.3    34.5
18  5/7       81.33   -19.5%      55.32   -17.3%      26.02  -23.7%    32.0 %    112.7   251.6
17  4/30      78.19    -1.6%      52.00    -9.3%      26.19   18.3%    33.5 %    140.1    23.6
16  4/23      84.07     4.5%      52.84    -8.3%      31.23   37.0%    37.1 %    224.9    91.7
15  4/16      89.59    17.2%      53.25    -2.1%      36.34   64.8%    40.6 %     26.6    43.1
14  4/9      157.80    90.2%      64.26     9.0%      93.54  289.4%    59.3 %    937.2     7.8

Q1   HMM    1355.61   -14.1%     896.93   -15.7%     458.69  -10.9%    33.8%    2856.1  3156.0

13  4/2       91.71   -39.0%      61.35   -38.2%      30.35  -40.5%    33.1 %    118.1   333.7
12  3/26     145.35     0.1%      93.05     2.4%      52.30   -3.8%    36.0 %    433.8   498.8
11  3/19     112.95     0.7%      76.44    -0.2%      36.52    2.7%    32.3 %    294.4   260.6
10  3/12      99.52   -16.8%      68.43   -15.6%      31.08  -19.3%    31.2 %    162.6   114.5
9   3/5       86.02   -38.5%      60.05   -34.3%      25.97  -46.3%    30.2 %    184.1   350.9
8   2/27     106.70   -29.5%      71.62   -24.7%      35.08  -37.7%    32.9 %    186.8   303.2
7   2/20      98.44   -18.9%      69.29   -15.6%      29.15  -25.9%    29.6 %    101.2   218.7
6   2/13     122.01    -5.6%      79.65   -12.7%      42.36   11.3%    34.7 %    265.7   126.4
5   2/6      102.48   -15.3%      66.32   -21.2%      36.17   -1.7%    35.3 %    123.0   182.6
4   1/30      99.47   -10.2%      66.32   -11.6%      33.15   -7.1%    33.3 %     97.3   192.7
3   1/23     101.43     1.1%      63.96    -7.1%      37.47   19.2%    36.9 %    302.3   273.7
2   1/16     100.71    12.1%      62.20    -4.4%      38.52   55.4%    38.2 %    448.4   201.4
1   1/9       88.82     0.9%      58.25    -8.5%      30.57   25.4%    34.4 %    138.3    98.7

2015 HMM    5982.0   -11.6%    3959.60   -14.9%    2022.43   -4.6%    33.8%   10548.9 10507.6

Q4   HMM    2120.41    -6.6%    1312.11   -14.9%     808.32   11.2%    38.1%    3308.0  3199.3

52  1/2      122.55     1.1%      76.23    -9.2%      46.32   24.1%    37.8 %    109.1   103.7
51  12/26    278.08     5.8%     170.80    -6.4%     107.28   33.3%    38.6 %    105.5     7.1
50  12/19    265.13   -13.5%     159.63   -22.9%     105.50    5.9%    39.8 %    417.3   343.8
49  12/12    215.99   -13.0%     128.33   -20.5%      87.66    1.0%    40.6 %    532.3   410.0
48  12/5     167.01   -17.8%     108.97   -21.9%      58.04   -8.9%    34.8 %     19.5   291.0
47  11/28    292.88   -11.2%     191.68   -15.3%     101.20   -2.3%    34.6 %     87.9   165.5
46  11/21    101.56   -21.3%      66.89   -26.6%      34.68   -8.4%    34.1 %     52.6   324.7
45  11/14    109.57   -20.8%      69.83   -22.8%      39.74  -17.1%    36.3 %    230.6   391.6
44  11/7     127.41    -1.2%      77.03    -7.4%      50.38   10.2%    39.5 %    419.7   408.6
43  10/31    101.99    14.7%      65.10    -2.2%      36.90   65.0%    36.2 %    217.9    65.1
42  10/24    132.34    41.4%      68.00     1.9%      64.34  139.6%    48.6 %    697.0   157.5
41  10/17    106.67    -5.0%      63.65   -12.6%      43.02    9.2%    40.3 %    290.2   347.5
40  10/10     99.23    -6.7%      65.97    -7.0%      33.26   -6.2%    33.5 %    128.4   183.4

Q3   HMM    1147.35   -13.2%     793.83   -15.3%     353.52   -8.1%    30.8%    2299.4  2295.6

39  10/3     115.56     1.4%      71.34    -3.4%      44.22   10.3%    38.3 %    650.1   278.5
38  9/26      94.73    -2.5%      61.87   -11.4%      32.86   20.1%    34.7 %    184.7   156.0
37  9/19     120.04    -0.2%      69.38   -14.0%      50.66   28.0%    42.2 %    582.4   391.7
36  9/12      79.80   -28.5%      58.35   -20.4%      21.45  -44.0%    26.9 %     43.9   285.5
35  9/5       88.23    -0.7%      61.12   -10.2%      27.11   30.7%    30.7 %    163.6    40.0
34  8/29      73.03   -25.3%      54.90   -23.7%      18.12  -29.9%    24.8 %     27.8    66.3
33  8/22      75.79   -26.7%      56.68   -20.0%      19.12  -41.2%    25.2 %      7.8   217.1
32  8/15      78.42   -21.4%      58.56   -19.0%      19.85  -27.6%    25.3 %     67.1    93.1
31  8/8       92.02   -17.7%      64.19   -18.5%      27.83  -15.9%    30.2 %    166.8   283.1
30  8/1       86.59   -14.0%      60.24   -17.8%      26.35   -3.9%    30.4 %    181.8   187.2
29  7/25      76.44   -23.6%      55.78   -24.6%      20.66  -20.7%    27.0 %      3.7   147.7
28  7/18      91.34    -5.5%      63.42    -9.0%      27.93    3.6%    30.6 %    184.7   134.7
27  7/11      75.36    -5.9%      58.00    -4.7%      17.36   -9.7%    23.0 %     34.9    14.6

Q2   HMM     1136.2   -17.9%     789.33   -18.0%     346.83  -17.5%    30.5%    1763.1  1836.5

26  7/4       80.04   -10.1%      59.99    -9.6%      20.05  -11.6%    25.0 %    115.1     4.7
25  6/27      76.22   -21.3%      56.18   -16.9%      20.04  -31.5%    26.3 %      0.1   121.6
24  6/20      96.47   -18.9%      64.82   -15.8%      31.65  -24.5%    32.8 %    100.5   317.6
23  6/13      90.01   -21.9%      61.54   -19.8%      28.47  -26.0%    31.6 %    185.5   145.4
22  6/6       97.72   -12.0%      65.23   -11.7%      32.49  -12.6%    33.2 %    308.9   243.4
21  5/30      83.37     0.7%      58.42    -3.7%      24.95   12.7%    29.9 %     23.6    23.6
20  5/23     105.56    18.2%      67.81     6.1%      37.74   48.8%    35.8 %    375.9   189.1
19  5/16      86.81     2.2%      60.42    -2.7%      26.39   15.3%    30.4 %     34.3    72.1
18  5/9      100.88    10.2%      66.77    -0.7%      34.11   40.2%    33.8 %    251.6     5.7
17  5/2       79.35   -10.8%      57.24   -12.2%      22.11   -6.8%    27.9 %    225.1    51.6
16  4/25      80.42   -10.4%      57.62   -11.9%      22.80   -6.5%    28.4 %     91.6     0.1
15  4/18      76.44   -56.7%      54.38   -55.8%      22.06  -58.7%    28.9 %     43.1   296.7
14  4/11      82.89   -44.1%      58.91   -37.0%      23.97  -56.2%    28.9 %      7.8   365.0

Q1   HMM    1578.06   -12.1%    1064.33   -11.9%     513.76  -12.4%    32.6%    3178.4  3176.1

13  4/4      150.33    10.2%      99.28     9.4%      51.05   11.8%    34.0 %    332.0   165.9
12  3/28     145.19    -3.0%      90.83    -9.0%      54.36    9.1%    37.4 %    498.8   187.9
11  3/21     112.10   -53.7%      76.52   -45.3%      35.58  -65.1%    31.7 %    260.4   643.5
10  3/14     119.66   -11.6%      81.16   -13.1%      38.50   -8.3%    32.2 %    113.4    66.6
9   3/7      139.83    -1.7%      91.54   -14.1%      48.29  -18.6%    34.5 %    350.9   490.2
8   2/28     151.40    -2.6%      95.11    -3.3%      56.32   -1.4%    37.2 %    303.3   506.5
7   2/21     120.65    -5.2%      82.04    -7.6%      38.61    0.3%    32.0 %    216.5     0.2
6   2/14     129.22   -17.1%      91.16   -18.0%      38.06  -12.9%    29.5 %    126.3   162.8
5   2/7      120.93     3.2%      84.14    -0.7%      36.79   13.4%    30.4 %    184.4   147.1
4   1/31     110.66     0.4%      75.00    -3.0%      35.67    8.3%    32.2 %    192.8   319.5
3   1/24     100.24     4.2%      68.82    -1.4%      31.43   18.8%    31.4 %    273.7   196.0
2   1/17      89.84   -15.3%      65.07   -14.6%      24.76  -17.2%    27.6 %    201.2   261.7
1   1/10      87.99   -10.9%      63.66   -11.4%      24.34   -9.5%    27.7 %    124.8    28.2

2014 HMM    6783.24   -10.1%    4661.69   -11.0%    2121.58   -7.9%    31.3%   10450.6 10589.2

Q4   HMM    2267.71   -14.1%    1540.94   -13.0%     726.79  -16.4%    32.0%    3157.4  3445.0

52  1/3      121.21    -4.4%      83.90    -6.1%      37.31   -0.5%    30.8 %    103.7    24.5
51  12/27    263.04    -3.6%     182.27    -3.0%      80.77   -4.8%    30.7 %      7.1    83.9
50  12/20    306.48   -20.8%     206.91   -21.0%      99.57  -20.5%    32.5 %    343.4   406.9
49  12/13    248.11   -24.8%     161.33   -20.5%      86.78  -31.7%    35.0 %    409.4   618.1
48  12/6     203.22   -11.9%     139.51    -8.0%      63.71  -19.3%    31.4 %    291.0   235.1
47  11/29    329.76   -11.5%     226.35   -10.7%     103.42  -13.4%    31.4 %    165.5    80.0
46  11/22    128.77   -17.6%      90.97   -14.0%      37.81  -25.2%    29.4 %    324.7   354.1
45  11/15    138.26    -8.0%      90.36    -4.8%      47.90  -13.5%    34.6 %    391.5   380.3
44  11/8     128.78     2.9%      83.10    -5.6%      45.68   22.9%    35.5 %    408.5   209.3
43  11/1      88.60   -31.4%      66.32   -24.2%      22.28  -46.6%    25.1 %     65.1   302.2
42  10/25     93.20   -14.2%      66.38   -15.6%      26.82  -10.5%    28.8 %    157.1   212.5
41  10/18    112.00   -14.9%      72.69   -17.5%      39.31   -9.5%    35.1 %    347.4   293.7
40  10/11    106.28   -10.8%      70.85   -12.9%      35.43   -6.1%    33.3 %    182.9   244.6

Q3   HMM    1320.38    -8.6%     935.73    -8.5%     384.66   -9.1%    29.1%    2295.1  2305.5

39  10/4     113.89   -18.5%      73.80   -12.6%      40.09  -27.5%    35.2 %    278.5   288.6
38  9/27      97.15   -22.7%      69.79   -11.9%      27.37  -41.1%    28.2 %    155.7   414.8
37  9/20     120.20     5.5%      80.61     2.8%      39.59   11.5%    32.9 %    391.2   213.6
36  9/13     111.46   -16.0%      73.15   -14.5%      38.31  -18.7%    34.4 %    285.5   239.8
35  9/6       88.74   -18.9%      68.01   -17.8%      20.73  -22.1%    23.4 %     40.0   123.9
34  8/30      97.67   -16.3%      71.81   -15.8%      25.85  -17.5%    26.5 %     67.6   197.5
33  8/23     103.27     0.9%      70.74    -7.8%      32.53   27.1%    31.5 %    217.1   146.6
32  8/16      99.46    -2.2%      72.02    -4.6%      27.44    4.9%    27.6 %     93.1   130.3
31  8/9      111.46     4.8%      78.38     4.2%      33.08    6.2%    29.7 %    283.2   136.9
30  8/2      100.58    -3.3%      73.19    -2.7%      27.40   -4.7%    27.2 %    187.2   125.4
29  7/26      99.91     8.7%      73.88     3.1%      26.03   28.5%    26.1 %    147.6     3.9
28  7/19      96.55    -5.0%      69.59    -8.5%      26.96    5.5%    27.9 %    133.9   159.9
27  7/12      80.04   -19.4%      60.76   -20.2%      19.28  -16.8%    24.1 %     14.6   124.3

Q2   HMM    1381.45    -1.7%     961.09    -5.7%     420.37    8.6%    30.4%    1833.8  1735.1

26  7/5       88.88   -11.2%      66.22   -15.0%      22.66    2.3%    25.5 %      4.6     1.1
25  6/28      96.64    -0.7%      67.38    -8.4%      29.26   23.1%    30.3 %    121.6    78.1
24  6/21     118.84     8.1%      76.92    -2.9%      41.93   36.6%    35.3 %    316.3   135.0
23  6/14     115.15   -21.0%      76.72   -21.8%      38.43  -19.4%    33.4 %    144.9   334.5
22  6/7      110.91    -9.8%      73.74   -15.1%      37.17    3.0%    33.5 %    243.4   325.5
21  5/31      82.78   -10.1%      60.65   -12.9%      22.12   -1.4%    26.7 %     23.6    18.4
20  5/24      89.23   -13.7%      63.85   -15.3%      25.38   -9.3%    28.4 %    189.1    84.8
19  5/17      84.90   -11.9%      62.00   -12.3%      22.89  -10.9%    27.0 %     72.1    61.8
18  5/10      91.35   -22.5%      67.02   -19.8%      24.33  -29.0%    26.6 %      5.7   223.5
17  5/3       88.49   -15.2%      64.85   -14.1%      23.65  -18.2%    26.7 %     51.6   189.7
16  4/26      89.68   -11.1%      65.32   -10.6%      24.37  -12.3%    27.2 %      0.1   113.5
15  4/19     176.28    56.2%     122.89    54.5%      53.39   60.3%    30.3 %    295.8   162.8
14  4/12     148.32    45.2%      93.53    23.4%      54.79  108.0%    36.9 %    365.0     6.4

Q1   HMM    1813.70   -11.6%    1223.93   -14.2%     589.76   -5.7%    32.5%    3164.4  3103.6

13  4/5      136.35     6.0%      90.67    -1.5%      45.68   24.8%    33.5 %    165.9     0.4
12  3/29     149.53   -32.9%      99.72   -35.3%      49.81  -27.6%    33.3 %    187.8   297.1
11  3/22     241.91    18.3%     139.92    11.3%     101.98   29.5%    42.2 %    641.1   618.9
10  3/15     145.68   -10.9%     101.76    -8.6%      43.92  -15.8%    30.1 %     66.6   247.4
9   3/8      165.48   -15.3%     106.21   -20.7%      59.26   -3.4%    35.8 %    488.3   257.6
8   3/1      155.39   -12.4%      98.31   -23.9%      57.09   18.3%    36.7 %    503.8   315.7
7   2/22     127.22   -19.7%      88.74   -16.0%      38.47  -27.0%    30.2 %      0.2   247.3
6   2/15     155.64   -20.7%     111.97   -15.2%      43.67  -31.9%    28.1 %    162.8   368.9
5   2/8      117.08   -18.4%      84.67   -18.6%      32.41  -17.9%    27.7 %    144.0   171.1
4   2/1      118.53    -4.5%      84.08    -5.7%      34.46   -1.4%    29.1%     318.9   221.4
3   1/25      96.17    -7.9%      69.76   -11.4%      26.41    2.7%    27.5%     195.3    47.0
2   1/18     106.11   -10.2%      76.19   -11.5%      29.92   -6.8%    28.2%     261.6   213.6
1   1/11      98.61   -14.2%      71.93   -15.1%      26.68  -11.8%    27.1%      28.2    97.3

2013 HMM    7539.31    -8.3%    5242.51   -13.1%    2296.82    4.9%    30.5%   10668.2 10071.3

Q4   HMM    2766.93    -9.8%    1851.78   -14.0%     915.15    0.1%    33.1%    3728.2  3249.2

53  1/4      126.71   -11.6%      89.22   -14.9%      37.49   -2.5%    29.6%      24.5    67.2
52  12/28    272.62    14.2%     187.84     9.7%      84.77   25.6%    31.1%      83.8    11.9
51  12/21    386.85    -8.2%     261.74   -14.4%     125.11    8.2%    32.3%     406.8   284.4
50  12/14    330.14    -5.5%     203.04   -15.2%     127.10   15.7%    38.5%     617.5   493.4
49  12/7     230.30   -24.6%     151.36   -22.3%      78.94  -28.7%    34.3%     235.1   586.2
48  11/30    372.25    70.3%     253.10    64.6%     119.15   83.8%    32.0%      79.9   133.4
47  11/23    156.10   -60.0%     105.57   -62.3%      50.53  -54.0%    32.4%     354.0    85.0
46  11/16    149.93   -12.3%      94.62   -18.5%      55.31    0.9%    36.9%     376.1   326.6
45  11/9     124.86    -3.7%      87.74    -6.2%      37.12    2.7%    29.7%     209.3   315.0
44  11/2     128.93     2.0%      87.22    -9.4%      41.72   38.1%    32.4%     301.9    93.5
43  10/26    108.04   -27.3%      78.18   -28.3%      29.87  -24.6%    27.6%     212.5   227.0
42  10/19    131.05    -5.6%      87.75   -11.0%      43.30    7.7%    33.0%     293.5   350.8
41  10/12    119.64   -13.2%      81.55   -11.3%      38.09  -16.9%    31.8%     244.6   181.9
40  10/5     129.51   -12.4%      82.85   -14.9%      46.65   -7.6%    36.0%     288.6    93.1

Q3   DEG    1448.64   -13.4%    1011.45   -15.4%     437.19   -8.3%    30.2% (EST)273.9   15.9%(share)
Q3   HMM    1401.22   -14.3%    1010.62   -16.4%     390.58   -8.4%    27.9%    2017.4  2145.2

39   9/28    125.64   -37.1%      79.05   -29.2%      46.59  -47.1%    37.1%     414.8   624.7
38   9/21    113.74    -4.1%      78.15   -13.1%      35.58   24.2%    31.3%     213.5   116.7
37   9/14    132.99    -1.9%      85.34   -15.8%      47.65   39.1%    35.8%     239.8   211.1
36   9/7     108.70     8.9%      80.72   -13.8%      27.98    8.9%    25.7%     123.8    46.5
35   8/31    114.52   -21.0%      84.31   -21.6%      30.21  -19.3%    26.4%     197.5   262.5
34   8/24    102.07   -29.3%      76.50   -28.1%      25.57  -32.7%    25.1%     146.4   105.5
33   8/17    101.24   -31.8%      75.14   -30.9%      26.10  -34.2%    25.8%     130.3   412.4
32   8/10    106.13    -8.3%      75.01   -13.4%      31.12    7.0%    29.3%     136.9   216.2
31   8/3     103.89    10.4%      75.15    -1.7%      28.74   62.5%    27.7%     125.4     0.1
30   7/27     91.47    -3.5%      71.25    -4.9%      20.21    1.8%    22.1%       3.9    18.5
29   7/20    101.61    -3.4%      76.01    -7.2%      25.60    9.8%    25.2%     159.9    81.0
28   7/13     99.26    -5.7%      76.13    -8.7%      23.13    6.0%    23.3%     124.3    59.6
27   7/6      99.96    -8.0%      77.86    -9.5%      22.10   -2.4%    22.1%       1.1     0.5

Q2   DEG    1457.26   -13.0%    1052.97   -16.7%     404.29   -1.5%    27.7% (EST)259.4   15.1%(share)
Q2   HMM    1432.97   -13.2%    1031.66   -17.1%     401.32   -1.3%    28.0%    1777.3  2318.0

26   6/29     97.21   -21.8%      73.46   -20.8%      23.76  -24.7%    24.4%      78.1   350.5
25   6/22    109.92    -5.8%      79.23   -10.9%      30.69   10.7%    27.9%     135.0    98.6
24   6/15    145.76   -10.6%      98.08   -15.6%      47.68    1.9%    32.7%     334.2   275.5
23   6/8     122.79   -19.0%      86.72   -18.2%      36.06  -21.0%    29.4%     325.2   374.1
22   6/1      91.91   -18.9%      69.55   -20.2%      22.36  -14.4%    24.3%      18.4    37.0
21   5/25    103.15    -6.7%      75.17   -10.1%      27.98    3.8%    27.1%      84.8   178.2
20   5/18     96.09   -12.1%      70.43   -15.0%      25.67   -3.1%    26.7%      61.8   200.1
19   5/11    117.72    -5.1%      83.48   -11.5%      34.24   15.4%    29.1%     223.5   187.5
18   5/4     104.34    -4.3%      75.45   -12.1%      28.89   24.7%    27.7%     189.5   105.0
17   4/27    100.75    -4.2%      72.97    -8.6%      27.78    9.8%    27.6%     157.3    67.9
16   4/20    112.75     1.5%      79.45    -3.3%      33.30   14.9%    29.5%     162.8   236.0
15   4/13    102.06    -6.0%      75.74   -12.1%      26.32   17.6%    25.8%       6.4    51.8
14   4/6     128.52   -36.9%      91.93   -41.8%      36.59  -20.0%    28.5%       0.4   155.8

Q1   DEG    2098.83     2.1%    1455.55    -6.7%     643.28   28.5%    30.6% (EST)231.2    9.9%(share)
Q1   HMM    2064.90     2.5%    1437.67    -6.2%     627.26   30.1%    30.4%    3169.8  2426.1

13   3/30    222.64    41.9%     153.75    26.4%      68.89   95.1%    30.9%     294.8   171.2
12   3/23    204.22    35.8%     125.59    14.6%      78.63   92.8%    38.5%     618.7   356.9
11   3/16    163.59    10.3%     111.45    -1.8%      52.15   49.6%    31.9%     244.8   279.2
10   3/9     195.09    19.0%     133.76    10.1%      61.33   44.3%    31.4%     256.6   216.0
9    3/2     177.32    15.9%     129.10    10.1%      48.23   35.0%    27.2%     315.6    82.3
8    2/23    158.25    -1.7%     105.48   -14.7%      52.77   41.6%    33.3%     251.0   274.4
7    2/16    196.00    -6.2%     131.73   -18.6%      64.27   36.6%    32.8%     368.6    16.2
6    2/9     143.36   -30.4%     103.88   -31.5%      39.48  -27.5%    27.5%     171.1   321.4
5    2/2     124.02   -15.3%      89.11   -19.9%      34.91   -0.8%    28.1%     221.2   118.7
4    1/26    104.36   -19.8%      78.68   -18.6%      25.69  -23.2%    24.6%      46.5   226.0
3    1/19    118.15    -7.3%      88.02   -14.7%      32.13   20.7%    27.2%     213.2   114.0
2    1/12    114.83    -8.9%      84.56   -13.8%      30.27    8.1%    26.4%      96.8   116.2
1    1/5     143.07     5.5%     104.56    -0.1%      38.51   24.4%    26.9%      67.2   134.3
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Old 02-20-18, 01:44 AM   #4987
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Re: Blu-ray and DVD sales - We're number 2, but we try harder

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I think one not unlikely scenario is that you could lose your purchased library as the ownership model is phased out in favor of streaming. The entertainment industry really likes that recurring billing model, whether it's Netflix or cable television. They're looking at the tons of money Netflix pulls in month after month, and that looks more attractive than selling someone a $20 disc that lasts forever and gets sold on eBay when tne current owner is bored with it.

And then, in a few years, your tv and movie purchases are gone just like that.
This is a huge focus of every entertainment company in today's consumer culture, shifting to a streaming-only business model for the mass market. Everyone wants recurring revenue from their customers and it will enable studios to pay out less in royalties.

It's already happening in music and Hollywood won't be far behind. In ten years actual ownership of a Hollywood movie may be very rare in the marketplace.

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Originally Posted by orangerunner View Post
We don't necessarily know the behind-the-scenes contract of how much Twilight paid for licensing on each title. The music isn't free - the rights holders do get paid and it's built into the licensing cost in some form.

Perhaps Twilight accepted a smaller profit margin when compared to other titles. The manufacturing costs of pressing 3,000 units of any said title is pretty much a fixed cost.
I believe TT's founder gave a lengthy interview on the economics of his business on HTF a few years back. He implied Fox and Sony negotiated in terms of package deals for their catalog titles with TT. So TT was picking out 10 movies at once Fox was willing to license and paid some sort of negotiated group rate.
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Old 02-20-18, 05:19 PM   #4988
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Re: Blu-ray and DVD sales - We're number 2, but we try harder

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Old 02-20-18, 10:53 PM   #4989
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Re: Blu-ray and DVD sales - We're number 2, but we try harder

Damn, and I bought a bunch that week too, though mostly DVDs (cheap TV series at Walmart.)
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Old 02-21-18, 01:47 AM   #4990
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Re: Blu-ray and DVD sales - We're number 2, but we try harder

Declining space at retail for media seems to be having a pronounced effect on sales.
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Old 02-21-18, 12:07 PM   #4991
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Re: Blu-ray and DVD sales - We're number 2, but we try harder

So thats two weeks in a row back to a 2:1 ratio.
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Old 02-21-18, 01:44 PM   #4992
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Re: Blu-ray and DVD sales - We're number 2, but we try harder

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Declining space at retail for media seems to be having a pronounced effect on sales.
Exactly. There's hardly anything LEFT for us to buy!
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Old 02-21-18, 02:13 PM   #4993
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Re: Blu-ray and DVD sales - We're number 2, but we try harder

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They did give notice, I think for a few months. All of my stuff got ported to VUDU (where it was anyway, thanks to UV). Only the TV Shows that were stuck on Flixster got ported over since those typically don't have UV rights.

I never used Flixster except redeeming codes and "glitches". The app was terrible
Apparently Flixster is shutting down for good today.

https://www.theverge.com/2018/2/20/1...ice-shuts-down

I checked my email and I only have an initial email from them when I signed-up and nothing after.

If Flixster is going belly-up, how safe is Vudu? Everything is safe and sound until the company decides maintaining your library is no longer economically viable.

Maybe I'm just old-school but I don't really care to sign-up for yet another site and chase-down my library hoping they still exist. Since they didn't send me an email, am I still in their system? Who knows?

Going forward, I think I'll continue getting up off my ass and reaching all the way over to my bookshelf, open a nice case with colourful artwork and a shiny disc. Pop the disc into a player and watch a movie.

Last edited by orangerunner; 02-21-18 at 02:37 PM.
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Old 02-21-18, 04:15 PM   #4994
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Re: Blu-ray and DVD sales - We're number 2, but we try harder

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Exactly. There's hardly anything LEFT for us to buy!
There isn't much left I want to buy!
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Old 02-21-18, 07:44 PM   #4995
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Re: Blu-ray and DVD sales - We're number 2, but we try harder

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If Flixster is going belly-up, how safe is Vudu? Everything is safe and sound until the company decides maintaining your library is no longer economically viable.
Is there a pie-chart that also includes digital PURCHASES (not rentals or subscriptions)? I've heard that those are still not doing as well as the industry would like (though they keep pushing it by releasing new titles a few weeks early on it.) Would be interesting to see exactly how much they're cutting into disc sales though. I feel a bit safer with UV and Movies Anywhere titles since I have more than one option to play them on if one goes under, but I'm still not going to switch to buying movies that way if it becomes the only choice (most of my 'digital' titles are from codes that come with discs, and I've bought a handful for under $5 which is the usual price of a rental. A few I've liked enough to buy the disc later- I got "Life" for free for example, then bought the 4K disc.)
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Old 02-21-18, 09:13 PM   #4996
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Re: Blu-ray and DVD sales - We're number 2, but we try harder

I just came to the quick realization that Vudu is not available in Canada which may explain why Flixster never sent me an email to inform me that I'm SOL.

Yay digital!
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Old 02-21-18, 10:18 PM   #4997
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Re: Blu-ray and DVD sales - We're number 2, but we try harder

The chance of moving to another country is another consideration- if that ever comes up (and that IS something I'd like to do someday, though I don't know how possible it is) I'll have to prioritize which of my digital movies I'm going to watch before leaving. I can take all my discs with me, don't even need to worry about region coding. Would love to move to Japan, since they still love physical media there and usually get cool releases that nobody else gets.
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Old 02-22-18, 09:39 AM   #4998
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Re: Blu-ray and DVD sales - We're number 2, but we try harder

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The chance of moving to another country is another consideration- if that ever comes up (and that IS something I'd like to do someday, though I don't know how possible it is) I'll have to prioritize which of my digital movies I'm going to watch before leaving. I can take all my discs with me, don't even need to worry about region coding. Would love to move to Japan, since they still love physical media there and usually get cool releases that nobody else gets.
We get it. Physical for life. You can enjoy hauling all your CEDs, DVDs, Beta,HD DVDs, Blu-ray and VHS to the north pole and continue watching them.
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Old 02-22-18, 10:55 AM   #4999
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Re: Blu-ray and DVD sales - We're number 2, but we try harder

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Originally Posted by orangerunner View Post
Apparently Flixster is shutting down for good today.

https://www.theverge.com/2018/2/20/1...ice-shuts-down

I checked my email and I only have an initial email from them when I signed-up and nothing after.

If Flixster is going belly-up, how safe is Vudu? Everything is safe and sound until the company decides maintaining your library is no longer economically viable.

Maybe I'm just old-school but I don't really care to sign-up for yet another site and chase-down my library hoping they still exist. Since they didn't send me an email, am I still in their system? Who knows?

Going forward, I think I'll continue getting up off my ass and reaching all the way over to my bookshelf, open a nice case with colourful artwork and a shiny disc. Pop the disc into a player and watch a movie.
No notice from flixster here either. As to streaming stuff, it's fine. It isn't really "owning" a title the way having a physical copy is owning a copy, but I do redeem the codes when I come across them. I don't think I have ever streamed a movie from any service that I have movies with, but I may someday. Movies Anywhere is definitely a step in the right direction.
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Old 02-22-18, 01:45 PM   #5000
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Re: Blu-ray and DVD sales - We're number 2, but we try harder

UltraViolet is basically down to the good graces of VUDU. Movies Anywhere has come in and made VUDU little more than an also-ran now that Amazon and iTunes are in the Movies Anywhere business.

Streaming people won't like hearing this but I don't think VUDU will be in business by 2021. If you understand Walmart and how they operate in new market spaces, they may dump VUDU or simply shut it down in a few years.
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