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Blu-ray and DVD sales - We're number 2, but we try harder

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Blu-ray and DVD sales - We're number 2, but we try harder

Old 02-06-17, 12:07 PM
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Re: Blu-ray and DVD sales - We're number 2, but we try harder

Originally Posted by big e
Every time sales numbers come up and are negative, we tend to look at them as ďthe general public/millennials/whoever arenít buying discs because theyíre minimalists/stream everything/donít want to own stuff/some other bs.Ē I donít think the general public were ever going to be big spenders on DVDs and BDs. Sure, there was a spike in buying during the early/mid part of the last decade, but was that due to average people wanting to build their own libraries or was it due to impulse buys because DVDs were becoming so cheap? Probably a bit of both, but if the general public were really interested in building their libraries, why arenít we seeing more upticks in sales?
I truly believe that more people were interested in building libraries at that time. I've always thought that what put some of them off was the idea of rebuilding their libraries, and for those people, the introduction of Blu-ray and HD-DVD so soon was a horrible idea. Some people were already rebuilding their libraries a second, or even third time, with DVD, and the new formats were telling them that they could expect to do that again every 7-10 years for the rest of their lives. And I'm very uncertain that many of those customers even understood the reasoning. I wouldn't be surprised if some of them heard the "You might be lucky enough to rebuy the same movie 10 times in your lifetime!" and just completely backed away. Or went from buying 5-10 releases every week to 1-2 every month (or less).

The fact that many went through a recession, and more were worried that they would lose their jobs and go through one, helped even more of those people break their previous buying habits, I think.
Old 02-06-17, 12:17 PM
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Re: Blu-ray and DVD sales - We're number 2, but we try harder

Originally Posted by big e
Would anyone happen to have to have sales figures or charts from the last decade? I think itís be nice to have a visual reference from maybe í06 to present.
If you have the time and patience, one can comb through the old BestBuy 10K and 10Q reports filed with the SEC over the 2000s decade. (IIRC, such official reports should be available on the edgar database).

IIRC, BB did disclose some information about dvd sales in their official 10K filings in those days.
Old 02-06-17, 12:32 PM
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Re: Blu-ray and DVD sales - We're number 2, but we try harder

I think the sales of DVDs in the early days was just people impulsively getting caught-up in new tech.

A lot of new tech came out and was suddenly affordable in the early 2000s.
Suddenly everyone had to own a DVD player, laptop, color printer, MP3 player, digital camera etc.

I think eventually people settle down and re-evaluate things. Do I really need to own all of these movies & TV shows?

My other thought is that nowadays there's a minimalist trend going on where your living space is supposed to be perfect, sterile and contains zero unnecessary clutter or individual personality. Physical media does not align with this trend.
Old 02-07-17, 04:05 PM
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Re: Blu-ray and DVD sales - We're number 2, but we try harder

Old 02-07-17, 04:16 PM
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Re: Blu-ray and DVD sales - We're number 2, but we try harder

Weekly disc sales since mid September:

-19%
-7%
-28%
-12%
-14%
-35%
-30%
-28%
-25%
-14%
-4%
-4%
-17%
-18%
+1.6%
-23%
-24%
-31%
-26%
Old 02-07-17, 11:50 PM
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Re: Blu-ray and DVD sales - We're number 2, but we try harder

Was this the first year that disc sales have been down every week in January? I tried to look back in this thread and I think it may be. Big declines too.

The big release in February, I think, is Doctor Strange on the 28th. It will be interesting to see how it does. Otherwise we won't see positive until Moana in the first week of March.
Old 02-08-17, 01:31 PM
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Re: Blu-ray and DVD sales - We're number 2, but we try harder

A lot of it has to do with the fact that last Jan was very strong. So it may be that this year is more "normal", although even so the numbers do look bad.

1/2/16 +24.1%
1/9/16 +25.4%
1/16/16 +55.4%
1/23/16 +19.2%
1/30/16 -7.1%
Old 02-08-17, 01:50 PM
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Re: Blu-ray and DVD sales - We're number 2, but we try harder

It's the old catch-22 problem of declining retail sales. The reduced physical availability of media at retail is definitely hurting current sales. So which came first, the reduced consumer demand or the declining shelf space? It's a little bit of both contributing to the drastic declines we are seeing.

Another issue is that studios abandoned deep catalog, handing them off to smaller outlets in licensing deals. That's great in the short run from a studio's ROI perspective, but those smaller distributors have zero power to negotiate deals with Walmart and Best Buy like the studios.

It's why these temporary pop-up displays from the studios now have the same 50 movies they put out seven years ago. I hardly bother looking anymore at them because I already own every single thing I could want from them.
Old 02-08-17, 02:17 PM
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Re: Blu-ray and DVD sales - We're number 2, but we try harder

The small distributors have no clout in the bricks & mortars world and generally their titles are $25-$35 and never go on sale.

At least here in Canada, amazon.ca is no better price-wise.

I like the Mill Creek model for catalogue - make multi-paks and make a lot of them for cheap.

That's another issue with these 3,000-unit runs is that the high price has to cover the upfront costs. Maybe the studios restrict them to a 3000 unit license? I don't know but when you're only running 3,000 copies, the upfront costs are very high when compared to amortizing the costs over 50,000 (or more) copies.
Old 02-08-17, 10:32 PM
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Re: Blu-ray and DVD sales - We're number 2, but we try harder

Originally Posted by PhantomStranger
It's the old catch-22 problem of declining retail sales. The reduced physical availability of media at retail is definitely hurting current sales. So which came first, the reduced consumer demand or the declining shelf space? It's a little bit of both contributing to the drastic declines we are seeing.
I think the problem with catalog titles is that most people who want a certain title already have it. The "collectors" already have most of what they want so there's little point in carrying a lot of catalog titles in stores.

I'd also wager that we're seeing a shift in the kinds of movies people buy. I think sci-fi, horror, and superheroes probably still do well, but sales are declining for things like dramas, comedies, and "chick flicks."
Old 02-09-17, 05:08 AM
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Re: Blu-ray and DVD sales - We're number 2, but we try harder

Originally Posted by Josh-da-man
I think the problem with catalog titles is that most people who want a certain title already have it. The "collectors" already have most of what they want so there's little point in carrying a lot of catalog titles in stores.

I'd also wager that we're seeing a shift in the kinds of movies people buy. I think sci-fi, horror, and superheroes probably still do well, but sales are declining for things like dramas, comedies, and "chick flicks."
By now with the format 10 years old for BR and 20 for DVD, people have what they want. Not that many people just waiting for the price to drop from $6.99 to $5.99 or $4.99 so they can finally own it.
Old 02-09-17, 06:04 AM
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Re: Blu-ray and DVD sales - We're number 2, but we try harder

I've probably said this in some way before, but when an old favorite gets reissued I first have to evaluate my newest copy of that movie to make sure it isn't "good enough" on its own. I won't get suckered into buying the same movie 10 times and not even watching it that many times.

I've had to laugh at the term "remastered"- in the past 10 years it's become practically meaningless, and the first thing I have to ask when I see a title claim to be remastered is what was wrong with the previous version? I've seen the term "restored" used recently on movies that weren't even that old as well. If we're talking about a brand new hi-def transfer of a widescreen movie that was previously just available as a crappy pan and scan laserdisc done in the 80s then sure, go ahead and hype your remastering, but if it's something that's already had a hi-def release then you REALLY have to give me a reason to care about putting it out again.
Old 02-09-17, 07:59 AM
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Re: Blu-ray and DVD sales - We're number 2, but we try harder

Originally Posted by JimRochester
By now with the format 10 years old for BR and 20 for DVD, people have what they want. Not that many people just waiting for the price to drop from $6.99 to $5.99 or $4.99 so they can finally own it.
I do that.

I'll buy things release week if it's something that probably won't go down in price (Rogue One) or has special limited time packaging or content that I want (Target Digibooks for the DCEU releases). Otherwise, I'll wait until it drops in price.

Of course, I wonder how many people who wait for a price drop end up not buying the movie at all...
Old 02-09-17, 09:13 AM
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Re: Blu-ray and DVD sales - We're number 2, but we try harder

Originally Posted by Josh-da-man
Of course, I wonder how many people who wait for a price drop end up not buying the movie at all...
Me !!!!!!!

Over the past five years, this ended up happening too many times. By the time a title ended up in the $5 dump bins, I ended up watching the movie on a basic cable channel already. Frequently the movie turned out to be crap, that I largely didn't care anymore by the time they hit the local dump bins.
Old 02-09-17, 09:13 AM
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Re: Blu-ray and DVD sales - We're number 2, but we try harder

Originally Posted by Josh-da-man
Of course, I wonder how many people who wait for a price drop end up not buying the movie at all...
I've done that before. I'll see a movie for $20 and say to myself, "I'll pick that up when it hits $10." Then the movie hits $10 six months later and I say to myself, "Well, I've waited this long, might as well wait until it hits $5." Then it gets lost in the BF shuffle of cheap movies and I don't really care if I get it or not at that point.
Old 02-09-17, 10:59 AM
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Re: Blu-ray and DVD sales - We're number 2, but we try harder

Originally Posted by orangerunner
That's another issue with these 3,000-unit runs is that the high price has to cover the upfront costs. Maybe the studios restrict them to a 3000 unit license? I don't know but when you're only running 3,000 copies, the upfront costs are very high when compared to amortizing the costs over 50,000 (or more) copies.
You assume that any of these discs would ever sell 50,000 copies. Most catalog titles, even the ones released at bargain basement pricing, struggle to move a couple thousand units.
Old 02-09-17, 01:28 PM
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Re: Blu-ray and DVD sales - We're number 2, but we try harder

Originally Posted by Josh Z
You assume that any of these discs would ever sell 50,000 copies. Most catalog titles, even the ones released at bargain basement pricing, struggle to move a couple thousand units.
There are a shit ton of movies out there, with more being added every week.

I think the US releases something like 500 movies per year. Historically, you're probably looking at over 40-50,000 movie releases in the US alone. It's just realistic to think that there's any way for the vast majority of these to move 1000 copies, let alone 50,000 no matter what they're being sold for.

And that isn't even including television content.
Old 02-09-17, 02:05 PM
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Re: Blu-ray and DVD sales - We're number 2, but we try harder

But take something like "As Good As It Gets" that was released via Twilight Time and struggled to sell 3000 units over the course of 2 to 3 years. But if Sony were to contract a Valentine's Day promotion display at Wal-Mart, it could easily sell 20,000 units in a couple weeks time frame considering there are some 5000 locations in the US, and a display could hold 10 units of each movie. Catalog titles kind of need a purpose when they are reissued to move the units (related sequels, patriotic holidays, etc)
Old 02-09-17, 02:20 PM
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Re: Blu-ray and DVD sales - We're number 2, but we try harder

Originally Posted by Josh Z
You assume that any of these discs would ever sell 50,000 copies. Most catalog titles, even the ones released at bargain basement pricing, struggle to move a couple thousand units.
I agree 50,000 would be a big stretch in today's market but an example would be a title like Anchor Bay's "Manhunter" Limited Edition which was numbered up to 100,000 (I had #56,000) which wasn't a hugely popular title even back when it was released in the early 2000s.

The title was shipped-out to multiple bricks & mortar stores throughout the US and Canada and they presumably sold.

Trying to sell these kinds of titles strictly off the websites doesn't really attract any impulse buys the same way a Wal-Mart store shelf does.

That's always been a set-back with the internet is that you generally only see what you input into a search. If you're not specifically looking for a title, chances are you won't see it.

Either way, I agree time has passed to press any huge amounts of catalogue titles.
Old 02-09-17, 02:29 PM
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Re: Blu-ray and DVD sales - We're number 2, but we try harder

Doesn't really matter much sales-wise if there were zero catalog sales. Most revenue come from new and recent releases. Probably 80% or more. Catalog gets a lot of attention because there are more catalog releases and people want to post their wish lists. But the fact of the matter is that sales-wise it doesn't have a significant impact on total BD revenue.
Old 02-09-17, 02:31 PM
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Re: Blu-ray and DVD sales - We're number 2, but we try harder

Originally Posted by orangerunner
Trying to sell these kinds of titles strictly off the websites doesn't really attract any impulse buys the same way a Wal-Mart store shelf does.
That business model doesn't work anymore for catalog titles.

There's a reason why media shelves at stores have been shrinking and shrinking and shrinking.

There's a reason why major studios license out these titles (or go the MOD/direct sales only route) rather than release it themselves in stores nationwide.

Moving more copies doesn't necessarily mean more money in a label's pocket either. There's a reason why so many of these smaller labels deal almost entirely online (and sometimes only sell directly).
Old 02-09-17, 02:42 PM
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Re: Blu-ray and DVD sales - We're number 2, but we try harder

Originally Posted by PerryD
But take something like "As Good As It Gets" that was released via Twilight Time and struggled to sell 3000 units over the course of 2 to 3 years. But if Sony were to contract a Valentine's Day promotion display at Wal-Mart, it could easily sell 20,000 units in a couple weeks time frame considering there are some 5000 locations in the US, and a display could hold 10 units of each movie.
You're dreaming, man. Just because a store shelf can hold 10 copies doesn't mean it will sell 10 copies... or any, even with a holiday promotion.

Originally Posted by orangerunner
I agree 50,000 would be a big stretch in today's market but an example would be a title like Anchor Bay's "Manhunter" Limited Edition which was numbered up to 100,000 (I had #56,000) which wasn't a hugely popular title even back when it was released in the early 2000s.

The title was shipped-out to multiple bricks & mortar stores throughout the US and Canada and they presumably sold.
That disc was released in 2001, at the height of the DVD boom. (I have copy 9,634, by the way.) Those days are long gone.
Old 02-09-17, 03:31 PM
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Re: Blu-ray and DVD sales - We're number 2, but we try harder

Originally Posted by bruceames
Doesn't really matter much sales-wise if there were zero catalog sales. Most revenue come from new and recent releases. Probably 80% or more. Catalog gets a lot of attention because there are more catalog releases and people want to post their wish lists. But the fact of the matter is that sales-wise it doesn't have a significant impact on total BD revenue.
If catalogue sales don't mean very much, how is it that sales charts consistently have DVD at 65% and Blu-ray at 35% of the market week after week?

I would think that new releases, "80% or more", would be in favour of Blu-ray or at least 50/50, given the usual $2-$3 price difference.

Catalogue titles must still have considerable impact on sales figures because there are more catalogue titles still selling on DVD than Blu-ray, keeping DVD in the majority of the weekly figures.
Old 02-09-17, 03:43 PM
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Re: Blu-ray and DVD sales - We're number 2, but we try harder

Originally Posted by orangerunner
If catalogue sales don't mean very much, how is it that sales charts consistently have DVD at 65% and Blu-ray at 35% of the market week after week?

I would think that new releases, "80% or more", would be in favour of Blu-ray or at least 50/50, given the usual $2-$3 price difference.

Catalogue titles must still have considerable impact on sales figures because there are more catalogue titles still selling on DVD than Blu-ray, keeping DVD in the majority of the weekly figures.
DVD has such a long tail since there are 4x the number of releases. If you compare the average top 20 share vs. the overall share, it becomes readily apparent that DVD is getting most of its sales simply by being available in so many places and is so established (not to mention STILL having 4x the number of releases, which is incredible). The numbers would not make sense otherwise. Sure there are exceptions when Disney releases a high profile catalog but the vast majority are as Josh said, only a few thousand units at most are eventually sold. Compare that to a blockbuster BD which often sells over a million units and usually at a higher street price. So one BD title alone can generate more revenue than 500 catalogs. It does put things in perspective where the lions share of revenue really comes from, as far as BD is concerned.
Old 02-09-17, 04:44 PM
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Re: Blu-ray and DVD sales - We're number 2, but we try harder

I wonder, how do the sales of DVDs in gas stations/convenience stores factor into these places? I'm pretty sure most of them are used and re-sealed, but I could see some of them being overstock from other places. How are they counted?

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