Psycho 50th Anniversary BD
#126
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Re: Psycho 50th Anniversary BD
Intent means more than some prevailing 'standard' of the day. Show me a wide-screen shot from Vertigo where one movie star is staring at another star where the other star's eyes are not in the picture. Additionally, Hitchcock was strongly considering Psycho to be a straight to TV film. Certainly that wasn't the case for the other movies you mentions so why is it so baffling that he would compose it (versus protect it) for the small screen?
#127
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Re: Psycho 50th Anniversary BD
Ditto. First, you can't compare the production of Vertigo to that of Psycho. The only thing relevant to the discussion of Psycho, is the history of that particular film itself. Psycho started out as being considered, albeit very reluctantly and with many roadblocks along the way, for a cheap and fast production for television. However, Hitchcock made many sacrifices in order to make sure that Psycho would be made the way he wanted it to be... as a theatrical film, and that's what Psycho was filmed to be. The film's aspect ratio was 1.85:1, and was shot on 35mm. That's all we really need to know in order to figure out what Hitchcock's intent truly was. He fought and did whatever he good to make Psycho a theatrical presentation, and the way it was filmed shows it.
There's been a lot of debate about this over the years... debate that usually boils down to, "Well too bad he's dead and we can't really know for sure." I think it's sort of a copout to 'agree to disagree' in this way about such a topic, because you piece the story together and it's pretty obvious what the intent was.
There's been a lot of debate about this over the years... debate that usually boils down to, "Well too bad he's dead and we can't really know for sure." I think it's sort of a copout to 'agree to disagree' in this way about such a topic, because you piece the story together and it's pretty obvious what the intent was.
#128
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Re: Psycho 50th Anniversary BD
That said I don't think the wide-screen issue is as bad as Touch of Evil. That's awful.
#129
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Re: Psycho 50th Anniversary BD
Too bad hitch is dead and can't square away this whole 1.33:1 vs 1.85:1 debacle. i am in the camp that believes this film is and always will be a 1.85:1 theatrical film and the Open Matte was for TV only. It's kinda the same thing that Robert Rodreguiz does with alot of his films. 2.35:1 for theatrical and 1.78:1 for home video
#130
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Re: Psycho 50th Anniversary BD
:munches popcorn while waiting:
#131
Re: Psycho 50th Anniversary BD
The UK caps were 1.85:1 unless I'm mistaken.
#132
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Re: Psycho 50th Anniversary BD
Even if it were filmed for 4x3, you wouldn't see Perkins' face on most TVs due to overscan. There's no debate and nothing sane about using an ancient VHS tape as any sort of reference for a film.
#133
DVD Talk Special Edition
Re: Psycho 50th Anniversary BD
This camera shot with Perkins' head cut off occurs five (5) count 'em five times in the scene for a total of a lot more than five seconds. If we're going to discuss this let's not spread misinformation.
That said I don't think the wide-screen issue is as bad as Touch of Evil. That's awful.
That said I don't think the wide-screen issue is as bad as Touch of Evil. That's awful.
Sorry for the misinformation. Really, I apologize. I fast forwarded through until I saw that shot, watched it, and then typed up my post. (That's how I got the 5 second count)
#134
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Re: Psycho 50th Anniversary BD
Saul Bass's storyboards for the shower scene clearly indicate widescreen composition (though they are narrower than 1.85:1, about 1.60:1) -- they can be seen in the "Hitchcock gallery" on hitchcockwiki.com, I am not allowed to post the URL.
#136
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Psycho 50th Anniversary BD
With his eyes so close to the top edge of the frame, they were very likely to be lost on most theater screens due to variances in theatrical projection (if Hitchcock could have even gotten the film projected in 4:3 at all, which was unlikely at best). And the eyes would certainly have been lost on TV screens (if this were truly intended to be a TV movie) due to the severe overscan all televisions had at the time. Hitchcock was a very technical director and would have known this.
The 4:3 version of that shot is just bad composition. The 1.85:1 version puts the focus on Janet Leigh and makes it much clearer that Perkins' face is supposed to be out of frame. The shot works much better at 1.85:1.
#137
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Re: Psycho 50th Anniversary BD
Psycho is one of my absolute favorite films of all times.
I've watched the 4:3 version countless times, and I've watched the 1.85:1 version at least a dozen times. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that Hitchcock intended 1:85:1 to be the correct aspect ratio.
All anyone has to do is watch the entire film, and study the composition of each shot to realize which version looks best overall. You can't cherry pick a few scenes for comparison, you have to examine the film as a whole.
I don't believe anyone who is a fan of this film could honestly say they prefer it open matte.
I've watched the 4:3 version countless times, and I've watched the 1.85:1 version at least a dozen times. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that Hitchcock intended 1:85:1 to be the correct aspect ratio.
All anyone has to do is watch the entire film, and study the composition of each shot to realize which version looks best overall. You can't cherry pick a few scenes for comparison, you have to examine the film as a whole.
I don't believe anyone who is a fan of this film could honestly say they prefer it open matte.
#138
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Re: Psycho 50th Anniversary BD
Sheesh. Why is this even a debate? I'm not sure but I guess around 85% of films shot from the beginning of film history have been shot with spherical lenses fully exposing the image onto 35mm film, which has a frame ratio of 1.33:1 or therebouts. Starting in the early 50's and right up until today these films have been matted at 1:85 when shown in theaters. Psycho is not some unique phenomina in this regard. AND that's not counting super35, and who knows what other kind of crazy digital processes they have these days.
Bottom line, you want to open up the mattes on Psycho then you might as well open up the mattes on 85% or so of the movies ever made.
Someone else can confirm or disprove the 85% number, if that's even possible. But it seems reasonable enough.
Bottom line, you want to open up the mattes on Psycho then you might as well open up the mattes on 85% or so of the movies ever made.
Someone else can confirm or disprove the 85% number, if that's even possible. But it seems reasonable enough.
#139
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
Re: Psycho 50th Anniversary BD
Which leaves us with rather sloppy composition in Psycho or something else afoot.
#140
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
Re: Psycho 50th Anniversary BD
My question is why is this the ONLY shot that is being used to try and convince people it was meant to be shot in 4:3? Is this the only shot that is "bad" in framing? If so there really is no argument about open matte or not. I believe the film was meant to be 1.85:1 and I don't care if the BD is going to be in 1.85:1, that's the way I want it. Also that particular shot as another poster said, the focus is on Janet Leigh, not Anthony Perkins. Perkins was much taller than Leigh and it would make sense to cut him off in order to get her in frame and give her enough head room as well as still getting Perkins in the shot a little. Could you imagine how much empty space there would be above her head if Perkins' head was fully in frame as well?
#141
DVD Talk Special Edition
Re: Psycho 50th Anniversary BD
My question is why is this the ONLY shot that is being used to try and convince people it was meant to be shot in 4:3? Is this the only shot that is "bad" in framing? If so there really is no argument about open matte or not. I believe the film was meant to be 1.85:1 and I don't care if the BD is going to be in 1.85:1, that's the way I want it. Also that particular shot as another poster said, the focus is on Janet Leigh, not Anthony Perkins. Perkins was much taller than Leigh and it would make sense to cut him off in order to get her in frame and give her enough head room as well as still getting Perkins in the shot a little. Could you imagine how much empty space there would be above her head if Perkins' head was fully in frame as well?
The dude on that blog thinks he's right, so he was very selective in only getting shots that support his opinion. Hell, even a few of the shots he picked have massive headroom with open mattes.
#142
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Re: Psycho 50th Anniversary BD
Because almost every other shot in the movie, if shown unmatted, would make it painfully obvious that the movie is meant to be matted.
The dude on that blog thinks he's right, so he was very selective in only getting shots that support his opinion. Hell, even a few of the shots he picked have massive headroom with open mattes.
The dude on that blog thinks he's right, so he was very selective in only getting shots that support his opinion. Hell, even a few of the shots he picked have massive headroom with open mattes.
#144
Re: Psycho 50th Anniversary BD
Yes and we all know how Hitch wouldn't compose for headroom above the actor that was the focus of the shot in his undisputed widescreen releases ... right? Said less sarcastically ... Hitch was the master at creating tension by having actors NOT at eye level to each other and used a variety of techniques to accomplish that and get both faces in the shot. If you wish to watch a virtual waltz of different eye levels watch the dance that Scottie and Gavin Elster (two tall men) do in Elster's office in Vertigo. It should be required viewing for every Hitch 102 class.
#145
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Re: Psycho 50th Anniversary BD
In the 1.85:1 Vertigo shots posted, in all shots Kim Novak's full head would fit above her head in the frame, sometimes twice. It's not even close.
#146
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Re: Psycho 50th Anniversary BD
Yes and we all know how Hitch wouldn't compose for headroom above the actor that was the focus of the shot in his undisputed widescreen releases ... right? Said less sarcastically ... Hitch was the master at creating tension by having actors NOT at eye level to each other and used a variety of techniques to accomplish that and get both faces in the shot. If you wish to watch a virtual waltz of different eye levels watch the dance that Scottie and Gavin Elster (two tall men) do in Elster's office in Vertigo. It should be required viewing for every Hitch 102 class.
Do you have examples of Hitchcock framing single-person shots with this much empty headroom?
#147
Re: Psycho 50th Anniversary BD
What? In the 1.85:1 framing of Psycho, you would be lucky to fit Vera's hairline or forehead above her head in the shots we've discussed.
In the 1.85:1 Vertigo shots posted, in all shots Kim Novak's full head would fit above her head in the frame, sometimes twice. It's not even close.
In the 1.85:1 Vertigo shots posted, in all shots Kim Novak's full head would fit above her head in the frame, sometimes twice. It's not even close.
#148
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#149
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Re: Psycho 50th Anniversary BD
UK dvdbeaver review: http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film/DVDCompare6/psycho.htm
should be the same disc right?
should be the same disc right?
#150
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Re: Psycho 50th Anniversary BD
UK dvdbeaver review: http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film/DVDCompare6/psycho.htm
should be the same disc right?
should be the same disc right?