Sondheim

Well, they've been around for 25 years - that's probably the best indication that they aren't exactly losing money (even if some individual releases may lose money.)

But really, every single one of your arguments is bad. Perhaps you should stop trying to rationalize your dislike, and just admit that they aren't for you.In many cases they don't have to do that - which you would know by now, if you weren't willfully ignoring reality. There have been cases where they released something with an inferior transfer - but those cases are very much the exception rather than the rule, and you're being dishonest if you claim otherwise.They dominate the Barnes and Noble sales charts every time they have a 50%-off sale - literally 75% of their Top 100 will be Criterion titles. But no one is denying that Criterion appeals to a relatively small market - fortunately, they don't have to consistently make the top 20 to make money. There are a lot of "boutique" labels out there, and many of them have found ways to be very profitable, even though their products appeal to a small percentage of the overall market and are never expected to dominate the sales charts.Not an indication of anything. And it should be noted that, as far as I'm aware, those commercials only play before and not during the feature.Not regularly - it still hasn't happened for quite a few of the titles I'm interested in, but it does happen. Fortunately, once again, this isn't really an indication of anything - lots of major releases from the big studios also go on sale very quickly, and it shouldn't be read as an indication that Iron Man 2 was a huge flop for the studios. On the other hand, Cinema Guild and Flicker Alley titles - labels that are considerably more "niche" than Criterion - hardly ever go on sale, and when they do it's only 10% of 20% off. I wouldn't interpret that to mean that films like Laila or The Strange Case of Angelia are selling better than 12 Angry Men or The Killing.

Doctorossi

Who cares how much money they make? Clearly they're doing well enough to have continued to release good movies, continuously, for about 25 years now. I put their Blu-ray discs into my player, not their bank statements.

Gizmo

Mabuse made the comment, not me. Ask him.

Sondheim

Can I ask you why you're so insistent on making terrible arguments that deny all the facts?

Gizmo

They sold some of their catalog to Hulu - that's a pretty big indication things are no so rosy and they needed the extra cash flow. Criterion is about quality - and now they are streaming SD/HD-Lite with a dozen commercials. Apparently, quality stops when they get a paycheck.

Wow. So when Criterion gives 50-75% off MSRP, they dominate the Barnes and Nobles sales chart? You don't say! I mean, I know I always buy all my discs from Barnes and Noble... So they have to make them $10-$20 just to sell. I'm sure Criterion loves the fact that the are priced the same as [insert crappy film by Echo Bridge].

LPMA

B&N is the one reducing its profit with those sales (unless it comes from some sort of deal with Criterion we don't know about).

So, branching out to streaming, thus making their catalog more accessible to a broader population is a sign things aren't going well?

Sondheim

You're making up false criteria and using that to "prove" that Criterion is struggling. Also, what does it mean when major studios stream on Netflix or when major TV shows stream on Hulu? I really love how you keep shifting the goalposts. Your initial argument was that nobody is interested in the types of films Criterion releases. But then you're given evidence that there is demand for them, and now your argument is that people only want them when they're cheap.

BuckNaked2k

Anyone remember when this thread was about Criterion releases on Blu-Ray?

Sondheim

No. When was that?

Well, I did just made my way through the Hollis Frampton set. I liked it significantly more than the Brakhage set - I think Frampton has a better eye for striking imagery than Brakhage, and he keeps the camera still sometimes - but some of the longer films drove me up the wall (I'm looking at you Zorns Lemma.) On the other hand, I actually enjoyed some of the shorter ones like Lemon and Surface Tension. Still probably not something that I'll buy.

Also, the new announcements are next week - even if they just announce Rosetta and La Promesse ("pretentious hipster flicks that nobody likes!!1!") it'll be better than the last several months' announcements. Throw in a Pal Fejos set with Lonesome and two of his other films ("who has even heard of those?!?!") and I'll be on cloud nine.

dino88

That old hipster thread was so April 2012. Get with the times, man.

Doctorossi

If it is, Criterion is about as far from alone in the "problem" as it gets. It's hard to draw a 'Criterion = fail' distinction when the entire industry is making online content deals.

Sondheim

Well, when the major studios do it, it's because they want to maximize their already enormous profits. When Criterion does it, it's a sure sign that they're about to go under.

Mabuse

If Amazon or B&N sells the product at 50% off it is those companies that are selling at a loss to drive trafic to their site. Criterion still makes the same per unit profit (whatever that may be). Do you really not understand how this works?

Sondheim

Do you really need to ask that question? I love seeing him frantically grasping at straws in his attempt to "prove" that Criterion is struggling and that nobody is interested in them (why he's so invested in proving that is still a mystery to me.) The best part is when the points he comes up with suggest the exact opposite of what he's trying to argue.

PopcornTreeCt

I really wish Amazon regularly sold Criterions at 50% off a few weeks after release. They don't, they really don't.

E Unit

Or you can hope Amazon screws up the pre-order price like they did with World on a Wire and Anatomy of a Murder. Of course, that was much less than 50% off.

CapRockBrewingCo.

Anyone else really wanting Y Tu Mama Tambien? I was hoping this would be a summer 2012 release. I guess we'll find out next week if it's coming in August.

Gizmo

Criterion is all about the highest quality possibly in Video and Audio. Releasing on Hulu tosses that out the window. Major studios don't care. They will EE/DNR away.

Mike86

Jesus fuck Gizmo. What is your big problem with Criterion? Get over it already or quit bitching and threadcrapping all over this thread. Some of us like the movies they put out. They aren't all home runs by any means and we all get that apparently you don't like them that much. Move on..

Hokeyboy

Obvious

Sondheim

Fortunately, their DVDs and BDs are still about the highest quality possible, regardless of whether streaming still has a long way to go. Also remember that the Hulu deal, besides being a way of expanding their market, was a way of making a large portion of the Janus Films library - films that hadn't ever been released on DVD, and which may never be released on home video - available in some format. It's far from ideal, but streaming almost always sucks.

But I'm done arguing about this. We're just going to keep going around in circles.

Doctorossi

Why aren't you complaining that they're continuing to release DVDs? HD streaming usually has DVDs beaten pretty handily yet, somehow, the fact that they're also releasing DVDs doesn't seem to be one of your signs of the apocalypse.

Lipid

Wrong thread, anyone know if B&N is going to do their blu-ray sale this year? Seems a bit past due at this point.

dino88

There's been no announcement, but it has always been July and November.

Gizmo

If Criterion cut off DVDs they would be done within a year or so. That's probably a good 75% of the market (for Criterion) They don't make enough off Blu-ray. Do you look at the weekly numbers or are you in the "Blu-ray is perfect and nothing is wrong" camp? Blu-ray is flat. DVD is actually growing right now. It's pretty hysterical, but I'm sure that discussion isn't really happening over at that other forum.