lizard

Yes, I'm on dial-up for simple cost reasons: $99 a year. The only broadband here is satellite or wireless, and my neighbors who have it say it costs about $70 a month. They are wealthy (as are most people here in the HD forum, it appears), I am not. Hmm, $99 versus $840... not a hard decision for me.

I realize that most people live in urban areas and they likely will get broadband at inexpensive prices someday, because they have access to cable or Fios. But for the rural or poor, who knows?

A tiny, densely populated, country like South Korea makes a poor analogy for the USA or Canada. I believe that their broadband infrastructure is heavily subsidized by the government. We could do the same, but I doubt that it will happen for ideological reasons. Recall that cities that have attempted to offer wireless to their residents as a city service have been fought tooth and nail by the cable companies. Are said companies going to roll over and allow a national broadband system? I think not.

We shall see.

Spiky

See, this last sentence is the part I don't get. They are not used to "just working", they are already trained. Name a product with no learning curve. And remember, learning comes the FIRST time you use a product. Even a spoon doesn't work so well the first time you try it. Sure, that was when you were under 2 years old, but that doesn't mean you did it perfectly the first time. People have this silly, selfish, entitlement complex. I say get over it and learn something.

Gizmo

Downloading a Zip File for your correct player/mode, unzipping it, getting the right program to burn an ISO, burning it at the correct speed with a CDR/DVDR and then hoping it works is totally different from using a spoon. If you can't use a spoon, you can use your hands to eat. If you can't burn a Firmware upgrade disc, you can't watch the film. Spoons costs $1, BD players cost $200.

Qui Gon Jim

But once you learn how to use a spoon, a new cereal does not come along that is incompatible with the spoon, forcing you to upgrade the spoon.

Adam Tyner

...but they shouldn't have to in this case. This isn't microwaving vs. baking a gourmet meal. The problem is companies not building their players or authoring their discs to spec, and because of their shortcuts/laziness/whatever, movies won't play. We're not talking about bargain bin studios or no-name manufacturers either. You're also ignoring the fact that the firmware fixes for these discs aren't always available on day one. To put a reasonably high profile disc in a namebrand player and not have it work -- even after upgrading firmware -- is unacceptable to me. The fact that upgrading firmware can be kind of a pain in the ass even for people who are technically savvy doesn't help. Blu-ray will not be a runaway mass-market success story like DVD if this isn't stopped now.

Gizmo

Clearly you have not eaten Fruity Pebbles - those bastards are like Mexican jumping beans - all over the place in my bowl and not on my spoon. That, along with the colorful packaging, means I do not buy them anymore.

bunkaroo

I'd actually be curious to know how many players require ISO burns vs. a data file onto a data CD which is much easier.

My personal experience is my Sony BDP-S1 required an ISO to a DVD (since it couldn't read CD's), and that was a big pain. Conversely, the Panny BD30 is stupid simple to deal with - you don't even need burning software; you can just let Windows to the copy to the blank disc.

Gizmo

I love my LG 200 because I can just dump the ISO on a thumb drive and thats it. My S550 is connected to my network so its even easier. My HD DVD players...oh man what a pain. Same with my sisters Samsung 1500. After burning 4 or 5 CDS/DVDS I just took her player home with me, hooked it up to my network and did it that way.

namja

Another reason why I love my PS3.
Seems like it has the least hassle (plus I'm taking the 2011 Miami Hurricanes to the BCS Championship game in College Football 09).

BuckNaked2k

Come aaaaahn, my XA2 updated like a dream; be it via ethernet or ISO file, nada problemo.

Adam Tyner

I haven't had any problems with my PS3, and the only headaches with upgrading its firmware is dusting off a controller instead of using the remote. It's just that my router is upstairs, and I don't feel like futzing with a bridge or whatever, so I either had to burn an ISO or drag my HD DVD player to do its firmware upgrades. There was one upgrade that I couldn't get the firmware disc to be recognized even after repeated attempts at the lowest burning speed, and having to lug my tanklike HD-A1 up the stairs and fiddle with a bunch of wires was a hassle.

fumanstan

Maybe, but in the same vein I don't expect everyone to be able to fix or troubleshoot their own computers, or change the oil on their cars. Now certainly updating firmware can be as easy as learning how to burn a CD or connect a player online, but even then it's a combination of little things that can be screwed up or not work without a good knowledge of all those parts. And like I said, it's easy to tell people to just learn it but it's not going to happen anytime soon. And taking a stance that Blu-ray is fine and it's just everyone else that's dumb isn't going to help anyone.

Regardless, the problem begins with incompatibilities, which is still the fault of manufacturers of players or of the discs, is what the bigger scope of the problem is.

As for me, I haven't had any problems updating my Samsung P1500. It's hooked up to my router and detects updates automatically.

Gizmo

I went through so many HD DVD players (kept buying a newer, better version every 3 months) that I got tired of inputting my network information so I could go online and download a trailer of Heroes S2 that I never bothered with most of them. Doing an upgrade by disc was a hellish experience.

Keep in mind, Toshiba sent me firmware discs as well - and half of them NEVER WORKED!

SPRBD

I haven't had a problem downloading a PS3 update using my remote. Or were you trying to apply the update from a disc/USB drive?

Qui Gon Jim

Should have upgraded the spoon. I stand corrected. :P

Qui Gon Jim

I got the last disc from Tosh in five pieces.

namja

There is no spoon.

Adam Tyner

I swear that at least when I first got the console, the PS3 demanded a controller when activating downloaded firmware. Maybe I'm wrong, or maybe it's not like that anymore, but something happened that made me think that was the case at one time, at least.

Drexl

You used to have to connect a controller with a USB cable to update. That hasn't been the case for a while.

I guess you were a creature of habit, kind of like those people who got into the habit of just playing movie discs without having to do firmware updates.

Spiky

See, you are missing my point. The point is that people use comparisons (if only in their own thoughts) to DVD or other products. But they already know how to use them, and have forgotten the learning curve they went through. By your comment, I can tell you don't even think there is a learning curve on a spoon, because its use is so ingrained in your brain. Try having a kid, you'll see. Now here is BD, with a new learning curve and everyone is crying, swearing, running amok.

BTW, if you can't use a BD player, you can use DVD. Or a movie theater. Or regular TV. Or play ball with some friends. Or go to dinner. Monopoly. Jigsaw puzzles. Create your own Jackass video. Sex. Surfing. Web surfing. Read a book. Etc. THIS is what I mean about entitlement. There are plenty of options in the area of entertainment if something brand new is too complex for some. Or, they could learn about it.

Are you saying using a microwave is harder or easier than preparing a gourmet meal? Have you used every single button on yours?

I do understand all that and I don't disagree it's annoying. But BD is barely out of its infancy. I just don't see this issue as a huge problem, because the history of BD, short as it is, has taught us already that it will be fixed. And frankly, I still haven't seen a report that the current Panasonics ever completely failed like this, just some stuff about Live which may have been more website-related. The last firmware upgrade for them was for minor incompatibilities with some parts of BD Live, I believe, not to fix any major releases.

Geez, people seem to live with Windows, which hasn't worked right in 20 years, how can they not handle this?

Gizmo

Are these the same people who couldn't figure out how to program their VCR and just put some black tape over the display so they wouldn't have to see the flashing 12:00. DVD is easy. Insert disc and it plays. Blu-ray not so much with the constant need to upgrade firmware because some studios are scared shitless of people uploading Home Alone on torrents or not bothering to check if their new process for putting a film on a disc will screw up on another player.

Using a spoon is pretty much mandatory if you want to survive in this society while owning a Blu-ray player is not. One is required, the other not.

Blu-ray is 2.5 years old. Its not in its infacy anymore despite was some fanboys will tell you about it being new since HD DVD died bla bla bla. All the kinks should have been ironed out by now.

Spiky

And I think they should at least have the basics understood. Personally, I hate changing oil and refuse to do it, even if it costs me triple. But I know how, and could if necessary.

That isn't my stance. Teaching/learning is my stance. I'm really saying the opposite, I assume most are able to learn this. Or almost anything else.

I just helped my 60-something in-laws buy their first computers. Now that's a learning curve. I try to do less and less fixing each time they need help.

I don't see why more aren't doing this. If you want devices in your HT/TV area that are internet-connected, give them a way to connect. It's time to make a change, run some wires, learn about wireless networking, whatever. (although wireless networking sucks) I'm up to 3 devices, and probably anything bought in the future will be another, the way things are going. I got a 8-way router for $20, all set.

Spiky

Fixed that for ya.

I feel absolutely no sympathy for someone who can't be bothered to learn about something that isn't mandatory, that they simply want. Call me an elitist. It's ok, you won't be the first.

Oh, and by infancy, I refer to the point where it starts becoming a mass-market device. Price has kept many away for the first 2 years, starting last summer it is hitting puberty.

fumanstan

That's because there's a long history of potential computer issues and folks have come to accept it as normal. Blu-ray is positioned as the next step beyond DVD and thus people will look at it in the same simplicity that DVD had.

And of course, there's numerous services available to help folks with their computers for a price, which kind of makes Best Buy's attempt at $30 firmware updates understandable since consumers are used to paying others to fix their stuff

Spiky

Lol!