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Buffy or Angel on Bluray?

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Buffy or Angel on Bluray?

Old 02-05-13, 03:38 AM
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Re: Buffy or Angel on Bluray?

Originally Posted by Major Tom
Hi all,

Sorry to drag up an old thread but I have a question that I can't seem to find the answer to.

I live in Australia and I own the Australian region 4 box sets of Buffy and Angel. The issue I have is that the first 3 seasons of Buffy (which are in the 4:3 aspect ratio) are stretched to fit my 16:9 screen, rather than having the black bars down either side and the picture being in the middle and not stretched.

Is this the same on the Dvd's for the other regions or is that just a region 4 thing? Because if the US or UK versions are in proper 4:3 then I will purchase them.

I would prefer to watch it not stretched like this as I find it just doesn't look correct, and I would rather watch it as it is supposed to look.

Apologies if I've got some of the jargon wrong, I'm not really an expert on this kind of stuff.

Any info would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.
I'm currently watching Buffy on region 1 DVD and they're in 4:3.
Old 02-05-13, 07:06 AM
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Re: Buffy or Angel on Bluray?

Originally Posted by Major Tom
I live in Australia and I own the Australian region 4 box sets of Buffy and Angel. The issue I have is that the first 3 seasons of Buffy (which are in the 4:3 aspect ratio) are stretched to fit my 16:9 screen, rather than having the black bars down either side and the picture being in the middle and not stretched.
Are you sure the problem is with the discs, and not with a setting on your DVD player or TV?

From the info I can find, the R4 DVDs are in proper 4:3 aspect ratio, so either your TV or your DVD player is performing the stretching.

I know my upconverting Sumsung DVD player automatically stretches 4:3 material, and I have to use the aspect ratio button to adjust it. My Panasonic Blu-ray player properly pillarboxes 4:3 DVDs automatically though.

As davidh777 points out, the Buffy R1 DVDs for every season are in the proper 4:3 ratio the creators intended.
Old 02-05-13, 01:59 PM
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Re: Buffy or Angel on Bluray?

This is definitely an issue with either the DVD player or the TV, not the disc. Because DVD pixels are not square, the format has two native aspect ratios. It can be either 4:3 or 16:9. If the 4:3 picture appears stretched to 16:9, that's happening after the fact.

Many HDTVs automatically lock into 16:9 mode if they receive a video resolution higher than 480p (or 576p in PAL territories). If your DVD player is upconverting the signal and your TV has locked out aspect ratio controls, you'll have to change the DVD player's output resolution back to standard def. That should unlock the aspect ratio controls on the TV.
Old 02-06-13, 02:29 AM
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Re: Buffy or Angel on Bluray?

Problem solved!

There was a setting on my Blu-ray player called 'screen format' which I changed from 'original' to 'fixed aspect ratio' and that fixed the problem. I had checked before that it wasn't the TV settings, can't believe I didn't think to check settings on the player.

I had guessed that they were making old 4:3 show stretch to fit the screen because there were people who didn't like the black bars or something. Was surprised when I couldn't find anything on the Internet about people complaining about their shows being stretched. Can't believe I never checked the settings before, I feel slightly stupid now.

Thank you so much for your help, it is much appreciated.
Old 02-06-13, 06:01 AM
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Re: Buffy or Angel on Bluray?

Originally Posted by Major Tom
Problem solved!
Yay! BTW, welcome to the forum.
Old 02-06-13, 10:27 AM
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Re: Buffy or Angel on Bluray?

Originally Posted by Major Tom
I had guessed that they were making old 4:3 show stretch to fit the screen because there were people who didn't like the black bars or something.
For what it's worth, this does happen quite frequently on broadcast TV. Many old 4:3 TV shows are stretched to 16:9 on the network's HD channel. They look awful.
Old 02-06-13, 07:49 PM
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Re: Buffy or Angel on Bluray?

Originally Posted by Josh Z
For what it's worth, this does happen quite frequently on broadcast TV. Many old 4:3 TV shows are stretched to 16:9 on the network's HD channel. They look awful.
Yeah, I hate that shit. The Food Network was particularly guilty of this sin.
Old 09-05-14, 12:30 PM
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Re: Buffy or Angel on Bluray?

BTW, a 'remastered' Buffy is currently airing on Pivot in HD. They're still airing the first season now in 1.78:1, with early episodes zoomed in and later ones widening the frame. Very different colors/contrast from the original broadcasts/DVDs, and a bunch of noise reduction. No official word on any Blu-ray release yet or (it follows) if a Blu-ray release would be cropped / slathered in DNR. To be clear, these are HD remasters, not upscales. (Well, VFX shots might be; that hasn't been made clear yet.)

For screenshot comparisons and stuff: https://www.facebook.com/BuffyHD
Old 09-08-14, 01:33 PM
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Re: Buffy or Angel on Bluray?

Originally Posted by Adam Tyner
BTW, a 'remastered' Buffy is currently airing on Pivot in HD. They're still airing the first season now in 1.78:1,
Somewhere, Nick Martin is having a heart attack.
Old 09-08-14, 02:38 PM
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Re: Buffy or Angel on Bluray?

Season 5 of Angel was the only Whedon show of that era that was completely mastered (VFX and all) in high definition.
Old 09-08-14, 03:10 PM
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Re: Buffy or Angel on Bluray?

Originally Posted by Adam Tyner
To be clear, these are HD remasters, not upscales. (Well, VFX shots might be; that hasn't been made clear yet.)

For screenshot comparisons and stuff: https://www.facebook.com/BuffyHD
It looks like at least some of the effects have been re-rendered:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VyisQqQKqnE

Note Darla no longer leaving a dust pile after being killed, and the final "portal" effect being rendered wider to better fill the reframed widescreen image.
Old 09-08-14, 04:12 PM
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Re: Buffy or Angel on Bluray?

Originally Posted by Matthew Chmiel
Season 5 of Angel was the only Whedon show of that era that was completely mastered (VFX and all) in high definition.
The VFX for Angel Season 5 were rendered in standard definition due to budgetary contraints. I watched the season in HD when it was broadcast. The picture quality would dramatically drop every time a VFX element was in the shot.
Old 09-08-14, 10:36 PM
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Re: Buffy or Angel on Bluray?

Maybe this will get a release overseas. Not like Fox releases TV anymore.
Old 09-08-14, 11:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Josh Z
The VFX for Angel Season 5 were rendered in standard definition due to budgetary contraints. I watched the season in HD when it was broadcast. The picture quality would dramatically drop every time a VFX element was in the shot.
Didn't the Firefly Blus wind up similarly, scanning the 35mm elements for HD and just cutting in the SD VFX shots?
Old 09-09-14, 10:11 AM
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Re: Buffy or Angel on Bluray?

Originally Posted by hanshotfirst1138
Didn't the Firefly Blus wind up similarly, scanning the 35mm elements for HD and just cutting in the SD VFX shots?
Yes, the VFX for Firefly were similarly rendered in SD. From what I remember, the quality drop-off in Angel was even more noticeable. All things considered, it's handled rather gracefully in Firefly. It really stood out to me when watching Angel.

For the Firefly Blu-ray transfer, I believe that the original SD video files for the VFX shots were output onto 35mm and spliced in with the regular footage, and then the whole thing was scanned again.
Old 03-22-15, 05:33 AM
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Re: Buffy or Angel on Bluray?

Hi . You can see all this HD version's flaws here:

youtube.com/v/F28XcxHxH6k

You can find Joss Whedon's, David Fury's and Steven DeKnight's answers in it.

Below are the last reactions of three members of the original team:

Mark Metcalf (The Master) on his Facebook Page: "I probably should know more about this before I open my big mouth but from the little I do know Fox has made a mess of remastering the great work of Joss Whedon and Sarah Michelle Gellar and all the other actors, directors and technicians who worked on Buffy the Vampire Slayer. The show and the work were important to me at the time and there are fans throughout the world that still get inspiration from the little girl with the big wooden stake and her struggle for justice and a simple dinner date in a nice black dress. This is worth a look."

Aaron Miller by private message: "I was the post coordinator for Season 5 and we actually made a list of 16X9 fixes for every show that would need to be done when the show was remastered for HD. [Fox] definitely did not contact me at any time."

Aaron Miller:
"Here's a comment from my post supervisor/AP that I worked with on Buffy. He was a post PA on Season 1 and moved up to AP by Season 6. He and I both went to work on Firefly so we did not do Season 7:

[Brian Wankum:] Thanks for asking! I am a little torn. The true purists should only ever watch the 4:3 standard def original release versions (exception being the "Once More With Feeling" which was intended to be shown widescreen). Not only is the framing as was originally intended, but i suspect that there will be lots of details in sets, props, costumes and makeup that might not hold up in HD.

That's for the purists. BUT... Right or wrong there is a large population of average Joes who just want the picture to fill their frame. The same group who 15 years ago would have preferred the center cut to the black bars on top and bottom. Would be a shame for a whole new generation to miss out just because they (or their local TV station which is more likely) got turned off by black side bars. I agree that if it must be done there's a better way to do it. Season 1 was 16mm 4X3 so there is no way to make it 16:9 without blowing up the image. One of the things that bugs me the most about the ones I have seen is that top of show credits appear over peoples faces. We always had a rule to keep credits below the chin in closeups. Starting with season 2 we shot 35mm composed for 4X3 but protecting for 16X9. After we delivered the 4:3 air master I would sit down and watch the 16:9 version and take notes and do blowups and repos where necessary to avoid crew, equipment and ends of sets in shots. We called these the "16X9 safe masters" and archived them with everything else. I thought these were pretty cool to watch, the problem is when they went back to negative for the HD rexfer in this latest release it looks like they did not consult the original for either color timing or re-framing reference. I'm sure the stories and characters will hold up but it's too bad more care was not taken. Nobody asked me, but if they did I would have loved to have consulted on this. Probably could have organized a crowdsourcing effort of comparing the originals to the re-transfers. Lots of crew alumni with lots of love for the originals would have likely participated. Maybe for the 4K/3D version?"

He probably meant they started shooting 35mm with season 3. Season 2 was (super) 16mm.

Note that the video was also shared by Kristine Sutherland (Joyce Summers), James C. Leary (Clem), David Fury, Tim Minear (producer, writer and director on "Angel" the TV show) and Nancy Holder (writer).
Old 03-22-15, 04:31 PM
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Yes, but it must fill the screen! I do not care if it butchers the intentions of the cinematographers and directors as long as I do not have to put up with the dreaded black bars! :shake: The Wire is only the latest example.
Old 08-08-22, 09:32 PM
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Re: Buffy or Angel on Bluray?

OK, it is 2022 and I can't Believe I am still Posting about getting BTVS on Blu-Ray!! It is really Embarrassing that it is not out let. More and more people are making Boot Leg copies of the Series. I Mean I understand that way Back in 1996, Joss shot it in the normal Format. Because He didn't want His Show being on Blu-Ray. But Now He Dose. So I am so sick and Tired of BTVS not being on Blu-ray. Fox is getting upset about all the Boot Legers out there.
Old 08-09-22, 09:17 AM
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Re: Buffy or Angel on Bluray?

???
Old 08-09-22, 09:19 AM
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Re: Buffy or Angel on Bluray?

It's a tough situation since the most recent remaster is awful, and Disney has borderline-zero enthusiasm for these sorts of Blu-ray box sets. Unless there's a sea change in the way Disney looks at home video, we'd need them to pony up for a new remaster and be willing to license the show out to another label (and the list of potential labels is extremely short in its own right). But I'd definitely be among the first in line if it were to happen.
Old 08-09-22, 10:15 AM
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Re: Buffy or Angel on Bluray?

Considering how toxic Whedon is right now, I just don't see that happening.
Old 08-09-22, 11:31 AM
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Re: Buffy or Angel on Bluray?

Buffy and Angel are not X-Men or Jedi so I don't think Disney gives a shit.
Old 08-09-22, 02:06 PM
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Re: Buffy or Angel on Bluray?

Originally Posted by Buff_fan101
I Mean I understand that way Back in 1996, Joss shot it in the normal Format. Because He didn't want His Show being on Blu-Ray. But Now He [does
To be clear, Joss Whedon has never said he doesn't want the show on Blu-ray, which didn't even exist back when the show started. The show was shot on film, and "mastered" on standard definition video, at a 4:3 aspect ratio. The most Joss has said is that he prefers the original 4:3 aspect ratio for every episode except "One More with Feeling," which was WS even when it first aired, because that's the way they shot the show and intended it to be seen.

A 4:3 aspect ratio doesn't forbid an HD remaster. Look at Star Trek and ST:TNG, Twilight Zone, etc.

Originally Posted by Buff_fan101
Fox is getting upset about all the Boot Legers out there.
I don't know if Fox/Disney is cracking down on bootlegs or not, but even if they are, that doesn't mean they intend to release it on Blu-ray themselves. Disney seems content with using the horrible HD remaster on Disney+.

The show just isn't popular enough to merit a fix of the existing HD remaster, and Blu-ray releases are becoming less common for older shows.
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Old 08-10-22, 12:04 AM
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Re: Buffy or Angel on Bluray?

No chance Disney releases it on Blu-ray. The chances were slim when Fox controlled it but wasn't out of the realm of possibility.

The show is controlled in every territory by Disney/Fox, so even an import edition is out of the question.
Old 08-10-22, 12:42 AM
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Re: Buffy or Angel on Bluray?

First and foremost, the HD master is absolutely atrocious. I don't think I'd buy it even if it did come out on blu-ray. While the DVDs look pretty terrible, at least they got the day for night scenes right.

And it's all academic because Disney shows little interest in releasing any tv programming onto blu-ray at this point. The Star Wars and MCU programs on Disney+ aren't available even though they would probably sell well. And they're letting older material, like The X-Files, fall out of print.

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