"Upscaled" dvds look terrible
 

I am seriously starting to believe that upscaled dvds via hdmi look no better than dvds played in an old progressive scan 480p player(hooked up through component).

In 2002 - 2006 I had a 53 inch panasonic RPTV and a panasonic rp-82 progressive scan dvd player connected through component.

DVDs looked great on it. Especially Lord of the Rings.

Today, I have a samsung ln-t4071f LCD, one of Samsung's top of the line 120 hz LCDs. I also have a PS3, known as one of the best upconverting DVD players out there. I have an hdmi cable connected.

I swear...dvds look worse on this set up than they did on my old panny RPTV and rp82 player. The image is really soft, colors washed out...dvds basically look like the movie is 20 years old.

Does anyone else have similar experiences?

The PS3 is not known as one of the best upconverters available.

whatever. It's more than capable of doing the job.

Meaning, it's more than capable of upscaling sd dvds. The ps3 is known for being a great upscaler. However, this is my point, that even one of the better upscaling players doesn't seem to improve the picture quality of dvds.

Before this...I was just using some cheap trutech progressive scan dvd player from target, and dvds played on that looked just as good.

You are contradictory.

I'm confused.

I use my PS3 for upscaling and think it's pretty good... I haven't had problems.

And I agree with GizmoDVD that this thread got confusing really fast.

How am I contradictory?

I say that upscaled dvds look terrible, no better, possibly worse than dvds played on my older tv hooked up via component to a progressive scan dvd player.

Then I say that the PS3 is one of the best at upconverting dvds. If you want to nitpick on that one statement, fine. But at least address the point I was making - which is that upscaling dvds seems to have no effect on the picture quality.

Try getting a cheap progressive scan dvd player at walmart. Hook it up to your hdtv and play a dvd. Now try the same thing with a bluray player hooked up viz hdmi.

You probably won't be able to see much of a difference.

Saying upconverted DVDs look terrible, then saying the player you're using to do the upconversion is "more than capable of doing the job" is completely contradictory.

Try a player that gets good reviews for upconverting DVDs, like an Oppo or Denon. Then you will see a difference.

Unless you're just here to start an argument, then nothing will make a difference to you.

Is this a five minute argument or the full half hour?

So, how's the Tosh HD DVD player at upscaling?

More than capable of doing the job of something that doesn't improve pq.

My point is:

If a good upscaler like the ps3 shows no improvement in pq for dvds, then I probably won't see much of an improvement on any upscaling player.

Get it?

So you're saying that there is a huge difference between the pq of a dvd played on a ps3 vs an oppo?

As GizmoDVD said, and I hinted at, the PS3 is NOT considered a good upscaler. It's not awful by any means, but it isn't the first choice of videophiles.

"Huge" is a loaded word. A more nuanced answer would be: Not all upscalers are created equal. People who think they're going to get great upscaling from a $40 DVD player are kidding themselves. And no upscaling DVD player will make DVDs look like Blu-ray Discs. But some players --- the ones using the best chipsets --- do a very pleasing job.

I would say that if your upscaled DVDs actually look "terrible," as you wrote in your first post, then you could have something wrong in your settings. However, my suspicions lean more strongly toward hyperbole.

On my 1080p projector, the difference between 480p output from my old SD DVD player and 1080p upscaled output from my HD-A35 on DVDs is very noticeable.

wd65733...

This sounds like it might be a settings issue. Review your BD/DVD settings - ensure that the Normal setting is there for DVD upscaling. I have a PS3 hooked up to a 1080/24p front projector thrown onto a 92 inch screen. My DVDs look pretty good, but my Blu-rays squash them in terms of quality. You also haven't mentioned WHAT DVDs you're using to make your assessment. A suggestion would be a Disney DVD that has a Blu-ray equivalent, or just a later-manufactured DVD considered to have high picture quality (Lord of the Rings or the newer Blade Runner).

BTW, you get more help when you consider opinions that differ from yours rather than discounting them.

My A20 blows away my PS3 for upscaling....

The PS3 I feel does a 'meh' job at upscaling. It likes to saturate the colors a bit more for some added vibrancy to SD material, and it does it without really over-saturating. I feel the blacks are too light due to the PS3's upscaling, and it tends to bring out the flaws a lot more when it comes to noise or grain. So no, your PS3 is not really what you should be using for upscaling DVD's.

I consider myself to be extremely picky of the video I see on screen for something I'm about to enjoy... I use the Toshiba A20 as well, the HD-DVD player, for my upscaling needs as of right now. The A20 does an EXCELLENT job at upconverting. I mean don't expect miracles with material that already doesn't look good, but throw in Star Wars Episode III, one of your LOTR films, or some animation like South Park, and you'll see how damn good it can look.

I owned an Oppo that I used for upconverting until I got the A20, and the Oppo did a fantastic job as well.

Deal with your PS3 for now, and I recommend when it comes out eventually, you get the Oppo blu-ray player that's supposed to come out most likely November-February. It will be the bees knees in upconverting, and be a damn fine blu-ray player. Problem solved. Now stop your bitchin' :)

My A3 is way better at up-converting than my PS3. Some DVDs look flat out amazing actually. This might also be my TV helping out. I have a Sammy 61" DLP.

I found similar results on my RP CRT. Running component 480p from my RP-62 player yielded similar results as the 1080i from my A2 player with HDMI. I'd say this is due to the scaler in my TV, which was apparently doing a fine job. For the sake of ease though, I just use the A2 and run everything with HDMI through my receiver now.

Have you tried using the RP-82 with component on your new TV? I have a PS3 also but never watch standard DVDs on it, so I can't comment on the quality of upscaling. I'd say check your settings on the player and the tv, or consider getting a stand-alone player for your upscaling needs.

A SD upscaled on the best upscaler out there doesn't stand a chance against recent releases like Kill Bill or The Fall on Blu-Ray. That is a fact. My brother would argue this for days with me but it is very evident. Even a newborn would see the difference. I wouldn't say that upscaled movies look "terrible" but I would say that they are not really comparable to one another as some claim.

It's very good. It's a bit better than my Blu Ray Pannasonic.

DVDs are still limited by their 480 source no matter how good the upscaler. I like the job the LG BH200 does, but nothing compares to real HD discs.

Simple answer...what you are seeing and comparing has nothing to do with the new player...it's the new TV. CRT (even RP) HDTVs when properly set-up and maintained still look better than the newer types of TVs. Especially with standard def sources like DVD. HD seems to be getting closer and closer, but CRT still hangs with the new guys there too. But of course, they are big monsters and need to be maintained regularly to stay looking good.

It does depend on the true bitrate of the movie being transferred on DVD. Some DVDs have around 7GB of data, which look pretty good upsampled. Take 3GB of the same movie and upsample it, and you'll see more artifacts.

Of course, some DVDs which have a higher bitrate, aren't better than their counterparts due to marketing, so unfortunately we need a caveat even for this statement.

So is the HD-A2 better at upconverting than the PS3? I have been using my PS3 with the latest firmware installed and thought it was pretty good... though I have nothing to compare it to. I haven't even watched DVD's with my HD-A2 for my current setup yet.

DING! DING! DING!

We have a winner!
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Also what mode of Upscaling are you using on the PS3? None, D, N, or F?

And no, the PS3 is not considered one of the best uspcaling DVD Players on the market.

I have an A2 and DVDs look very good on m Samsung 42 Plasma. I don't have a PS3 so I can't compare, but I was happy with enough with upscaled DVDs to forgo buying HD DVDs when they were available.

I'm pretty happy with the job my A2 does as well. It really depends on the disc, though. South Park looks terrible on some episodes because the player forces 4:3 on the upconvert, and I get a screening/horizontal line effect on horizontal movements of characters. However, with stuff like the Gladiator Extended or La Haine Criterion, the upconversion is very pleasing. Not true HD quality, but enough that I noticed a difference. And for me, on most films, it's good enough not to upgrade all my discs...Stuff like Animal house and such just isn't going to be that much better HD wise, but definitely for things like Braveheart and the bigger films. I will probably be going blu on the next PS3 price drop...

I love my 720p Optoma HD72 projector's image. I see little difference between upscalers and the projector's native deinterlacer/scaler. Then again, it has a Faroudja 2310 in it so only the Reons and the like are better (like my HD-XA2 has - it is marginally better and a bit more reliable WRT deinterlacing some tricky material).

Keep in mind that many older CRT RPTVs actually had two modes - 480p and 1080i. So a DVD @ 480p was actually being displayed at its native 480p rather than being scaled.

In all honesty the best SD-DVD picture I've had was probably my Infocus X1 projector running what amounted to native 480p. SD-DVD looked better on it, period. Unless you've got big money for fancy scalers or an SDI-modded DVD player deinterlacing and a HTPC scaling...native 480p is going to look better than trying to scale it up.