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-   -   Wired article - Blu Ray still hasn't taken off (https://forum.dvdtalk.com/hd-talk/538924-wired-article-blu-ray-still-hasnt-taken-off.html)

bunkaroo 09-05-08 07:57 AM


Originally Posted by Jay G. (Post 8919087)
If you're playing a copy of a DVD, somewhere along the way you're breaking the encryption.

If people are making ISO files from DVD's then I could see that as technically not breaking encryption, but you're still making what the studios would consider and unauthorized copy.

spainlinx0 09-05-08 08:09 AM

That's nice for them, but we do have fair use laws in this country. Just because the studios try to circumvent that with the DMCA doesn't mean we should stand by and let them.

kefrank 09-05-08 09:00 AM


Originally Posted by spainlinx0 (Post 8919146)
That's nice for them, but we do have fair use laws in this country. Just because the studios try to circumvent that with the DMCA doesn't mean we should stand by and let them.

I could easily be wrong, but I don't think making backup copies of DVDs has been held up as "fair use" in a court of law.

Gizmo 09-05-08 10:27 AM


Originally Posted by chanster (Post 8919077)
The guy didn't deny what he said about Blu Ray and the 5 year thing...and thats what got you so worked up - wasn't it????


Yes. If the article stated Blu-ray had a 10-15 year plan it would be praised and high-fives would be given from all forums. But since its negative, its not right and the author somehow confused LCD with Blu-ray.

Its been two days not and the article had yet to be edited in any way nor has a retraction been posted. I can almost guarantee you that author (or website) has received hundreds of e-mails from angry fan boys demanding it be changed.

Gizmo 09-05-08 10:32 AM


Originally Posted by Josh-da-man (Post 8918987)
VOD sounds good on paper, but where is the bandwidth going to come from?

Comcast?

Even if the cap proves to be true, 250GB is not enough for you? That's 200+ SD downloads or 50 HD downloads. How many movies do you think the average family watches iat home in a month? 5-8?

Kids watching habits may be a bit different, but there will always be some sort of physical format they could watch whether it be VHS, DVD, HD DVD, Blu-ray or whatever.

chanster 09-05-08 10:48 AM

A bandwith cap or charge just means IMHO that cable providers are anticipating large downloads in the future. I'm sure there will be a "movie lovers" tier of downloading that allows you to do what you want (within I guess reason) for an extra charge. Its just a way for cable companies to get their piece of the action...

bboisvert 09-05-08 12:19 PM

The article doesn't go into enough depth to be very useful, IMO. Price is definitely a factor, but so is the danger of being an early adopter (and, even after what seems like years, going Blu today is still being an early adopter).

I got burnt on HD DVD. There are apparently thousands of other people who spent hundreds of dollars during the holidays last year on HD DVD hardware and software too. Only to have Toshiba pack it in 2 months later.

I have no assurances that BD will still be viable in 2009. I suspect it will be, but I also suspected I'd be buying Iron Man, The Dark Knight, and The Hulk on HD DVD this year.

If "the industry" is going to treat customers like glorified beta testers (and charge hundreds of dollars for it), they have to expect some trepidation on the part of their customer base. A base that knows full well that prices will be about 50% lower a year from now and the likelyhood of BD sticking around will be more solid.

aynrandgirl 09-05-08 12:26 PM


Originally Posted by Jay G. (Post 8919087)
If you're playing a copy of a DVD, somewhere along the way you're breaking the encryption.

I'm using a licensed player, which I think is OK.

spainlinx0 09-05-08 12:45 PM


Originally Posted by kefrank (Post 8919256)
I could easily be wrong, but I don't think making backup copies of DVDs has been held up as "fair use" in a court of law.

You may be right, but I don't see how that would work. Fair use is fair use. You are allowed to use what you buy in any matter you like, as long as you're not distributing it.

The DMCA came along as a way to sidestep that right of purchase. I don't believe it's illegal to make backups of your DVDs. However, it is illegal to break the encryption in order to do so. Someone else may be better informed than I however.

bunkaroo 09-05-08 12:49 PM


Originally Posted by chanster (Post 8919483)
A bandwith cap or charge just means IMHO that cable providers are anticipating large downloads in the future. I'm sure there will be a "movie lovers" tier of downloading that allows you to do what you want (within I guess reason) for an extra charge. Its just a way for cable companies to get their piece of the action...

Well it seems it may also be done to thwart chronic intellectual property thieves who host content for download. The article I read a week or two ago stated that Comcast originally tried blocking specific p2p sites but I believe that was overturned on the basis that you can't tell people what they can or can't do with the connection they are paying for. So the next way to deter it is bandwidth caps. And those who breach 250GB don't just pay more - they get their accounts closed after one warning.

250GB might seem like a lot, but remember, that's bandwidth for everything: browsing Youtube, buying iTunes, etc. Some people work from home - that will eat a lot bandwidth too.

Even if each household just starts using a 100GB per month towards VOD, the strain on the infrastructure of these service providers will be affected in a big way, and they will find a way to make you pay for it.

Qui Gon Jim 09-05-08 08:50 PM


Originally Posted by RoboDad (Post 8917848)
No, that's not the case, and continually parroting such things really adds nothing to the discussion.

VOD isn't a dirty word, and it will have a solid place in the future. But, just because you think it will render all physical media obsolete doesn't mean that anyone who disagrees with that opinion is somehow irrational.

I see myself getting into VOD when it is affordable and widely available enough, but it isn't going to stop me from buying titles on Blu-ray. One is a rental medium, the other a collector medium.

You're right. My apologies.

I think your bolded comment above sums it up for me. However, what we think of as phsical media now is not exactly what we thought of ten years ago, and I'd ventrue to say that ten years from now things will look different as well.

The Man with the Golden Doujinshi 09-05-08 09:14 PM


Originally Posted by spainlinx0 (Post 8919813)
The DMCA came along as a way to sidestep that right of purchase. I don't believe it's illegal to make backups of your DVDs. However, it is illegal to break the encryption in order to do so. Someone else may be better informed than I however.

Correct. Also, not all DVDs are encrypted so it would be ok to back those up.

The reason the encryption was broken in the first place was because it was impossible to watch a DVD on a linux computer. Watching an encrypted DVD on a linux computer is impossible without breaking the law. It's easy as pie to do but the encryption is being broken and those folks can get fines for wanting to watch The Dark Knight on their computer.

Isn't the DMCA great!!!


Originally Posted by bboisvert (Post 8919721)
I suspect it will be, but I also suspected I'd be buying Iron Man, The Dark Knight, and The Hulk on HD DVD this year.

Good luck with that ;)

DVD Polizei 09-05-08 09:15 PM

VOD would come in handy if you're sitting in your living room with your friends and want to watch a recent flick in HD which you don't currently have.

I agree, VOD isn't bad. But it isn't a replacement, either. And it's the latter, which some VOD advocates think it will be who I argue with.

Josh-da-man 09-05-08 11:30 PM


Originally Posted by GizmoDVD (Post 8919455)
Even if the cap proves to be true, 250GB is not enough for you? That's 200+ SD downloads or 50 HD downloads. How many movies do you think the average family watches iat home in a month? 5-8?

The thing is, ISPs are getting pissy because a handful of users are using huge amounts of bandwidth while the "average" users might use 3-5 GB a month.

When VOD and streaming becomes a reality, you're going to have the low-end users then start eating up hundreds of gigs of bandwidth a month.

Also keep in mind that there will be other uses for streaming HD video content other than just watching movies. There are also sporting events, concerts, and regular television programming. And on top of that, you're going to have people using the net to websurf, download podcasts, send huge personal picture and video files to each other.

The Bus 09-08-08 12:39 PM


Originally Posted by pro-bassoonist (Post 8914383)
Ask the concerned parties: Where was DVD months after all of the major studios began releasing and compare that to BR?

Pro-B

The difference between DVD and VHS is a gigantic gap compared to the difference between BD and DVD.

slop101 09-08-08 02:25 PM

^ yup.

Improved image/sound is the only thing BD has over dvd. What got me excited about dvd 10 years ago wasn't just improved A/V over vhs, but a smaller, more durable format, extra bonus content, priced to sell, etc. BD is not an improvement as far as those things are concerned - especially price.

Adam Tyner 09-08-08 02:31 PM


Originally Posted by slop101 (Post 8925874)
Improved image/sound is the only thing BD has over dvd.

There's improved interactivity as well, although we haven't seen much of a killer app yet.

E Unit 09-08-08 02:55 PM

I'd hate to think that dumb game on ID4 is the peak at what this format and interactivity have to offer.

BuckNaked2k 09-08-08 03:24 PM


Originally Posted by slop101 (Post 8925874)
....What got me excited about DVD 10 years ago wasn't just improved A/V over VHS, but a smaller, more durable format, extra bonus content, priced to sell, etc....

Don't forget those cool menus and instant scene access....not to mention no rewinding!

bunkaroo 09-08-08 03:35 PM

For me the single biggest benefit of DVD was the ability to finally buy a format where OAR was the default for the vast majority of releases (early WB and Uni titles not withstanding).

RoboDad 09-08-08 03:36 PM


Originally Posted by slop101 (Post 8925874)
Improved image/sound is the only thing BD has over dvd. What got me excited about dvd 10 years ago wasn't just improved A/V over vhs, but a smaller, more durable format, extra bonus content, priced to sell, etc. BD is not an improvement as far as those things are concerned - especially price.

While there is some definite truth to what you say, your phrasing makes it sound as if you believe that the improved A/V quality of Blu-ray over DVD is insignificant or trivial.

pro-bassoonist 09-08-08 03:44 PM


Originally Posted by slop101 (Post 8925874)
^ yup.

Improved image/sound is the only thing BD has over dvd. What got me excited about dvd 10 years ago wasn't just improved A/V over vhs, but a smaller, more durable format, extra bonus content, priced to sell, etc. BD is not an improvement as far as those things are concerned - especially price.

Actually, as far as pricing is concerned I would love to see a source showing that at a similar curve DVD was priced to sell. And as far as durability is concerned I fail to see how the non-scratch protection on BD isn't an improvement over SDVD.

Some people around here have a very short memory, and I understand why, as the lavish bonus-packed special editions on DVD became mass much later, arguably after the introduction of Fight Club.

Pro-B

applesandrice 09-08-08 03:55 PM


Originally Posted by pro-bassoonist (Post 8926052)
Actually, as far as pricing is concerned I would love to see a source showing that at a similar curve DVD was priced to sell. And as far as durability is concerned I fail to see how the non-scratch protection on BD isn't an improvement over SDVD.

Some people around here have a very short memory, and I understand why, as the lavish bonus-packed special editions on DVD became mass much later, arguably after the introduction of Fight Club.

Pro-B

The difference is, DVD has set the bar, and people are used to low prices and feature packed special editions. Blu-ray has to show consumers that they've set the bar even higher.

People are used to buying their movies cheaply. I am. I cringe anytime I have to pay more than $15-20 for a single film, whether it's HD or not. And no amount of pseudo-justification about DVDs (or Laserdiscs, or VHS) having been expensive when they were new is going to change that. With rare exception (like the "Sweeney Todd" UK steelbook) I will simply hold onto my money and wait for the prices to come down.

pro-bassoonist 09-08-08 04:09 PM


Originally Posted by applesandrice (Post 8926071)
The difference is, DVD has set the bar, and people are used to low prices and feature packed special editions. Blu-ray has to show consumers that they've set the bar even higher.

The bar has been set higher in terms of Audio/Video treatment, durability, and interactivity. I am personally not convinced that extras are a breaking point for BD outside of internet forums but that remains to be seen. As far as pricing goes I support the same opinion I shared during the war - BD follows precisely the same progression path DVD did with hardware price adjustments arriving even faster. Hence, as market penetration and product offerings improve so will software pricing.

Pro-B

applesandrice 09-08-08 04:30 PM


Originally Posted by pro-bassoonist (Post 8926106)
The bar has been set higher in terms of Audio/Video treatment, durability, and interactivity.

I agree. It's going to take some doing, though, for most people to really see and appreciate the difference, though. Especially with prices as high as they are right now, in the middle(?) of a poor economy. Priorities have changed over the past 10 years.


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