Go Back  DVD Talk Forum > DVD Discussions > HD Talk
Reload this Page >

Article: HD-DVD demise didn't boost Blu Ray Sales (Excludes PS3)

HD Talk The place to discuss Blu-ray, 4K and all other forms and formats of HD and HDTV.

Article: HD-DVD demise didn't boost Blu Ray Sales (Excludes PS3)

Old 04-30-08, 10:48 PM
  #1  
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 9,334
Article: HD-DVD demise didn't boost Blu Ray Sales (Excludes PS3)

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24394282/

NEW YORK - Sales of Blu-ray disc players haven't been helped by maker Toshiba's capitulation over producing the rival HD DVD format, research firm NPD Group said Wednesday.

Toshiba announced on Feb. 19 that it would stop making HD DVD players, already doomed by Warner Bros. Entertainment's announcement Jan. 4 that it was dropping HD DVD to focus on Blu-ray.

Sales of Blu-ray players, excluding PlayStation 3 game consoles, dropped 40 percent from January to February in the U.S., according to NPD. Sales grew only 2 percent from February to March. The firm didn't release numbers of players sold.
Here is a similar article on the numbers:
http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/0...ref=technology

Last edited by chanster; 04-30-08 at 11:00 PM.
chanster is offline  
Old 04-30-08, 11:08 PM
  #2  
DVD Talk Legend
 
bunkaroo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Chicago West Suburbs
Posts: 15,569
I personally don't see the value in people writing these stories if they're not going to include PS3.
bunkaroo is online now  
Old 04-30-08, 11:10 PM
  #3  
DVD Talk Hero
 
Gizmo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Formerly known as "GizmoDVD"/Southern CA
Posts: 30,403
Because the format can not, and will not survive by a video game system. Stand alones sales are very important. Obviously at this point PS3 is the way to go...but in the future it should be stand alones. I'm still waiting for a comparable stand alone to replace my PS3 with.
Gizmo is offline  
Old 04-30-08, 11:30 PM
  #4  
Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 193
I've never understood the stand-alone vs. video game thing too much. I mean, who cares what else it can do? I don't give a flying rats ass if a player cooks pizza or shreds paper if it the best available player for BDs. Now that's no excuse for other player not to be up to par, but really.

It is a standalone BD player if that's all you play on it. I'm not going to say I'm not buying a DVD upconverter or a CD player to play my BD's on when referring to a supposed "stand-alone" player.

Last edited by thecrackedjack2; 04-30-08 at 11:35 PM.
thecrackedjack2 is offline  
Old 04-30-08, 11:32 PM
  #5  
DVD Talk Legend
 
bunkaroo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Chicago West Suburbs
Posts: 15,569
The scope of the article is the time passed since HD DVD folded. PS3 plays a big part in Blu-Ray during that time regardless of what is speculated to be important in the future.

Just seems like another article which spins the way it wants to.
bunkaroo is online now  
Old 05-01-08, 03:14 AM
  #6  
DVD Talk Special Edition
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Truth or Consequences, NM
Posts: 1,216
I'm sure the economy has nothing to do with it either


But to bolster the other arguments made here, when I recommend a Blu-Ray player I ALWAYS push the PS3 even if the person isn't a gamer. I don't pretend to have had a big influence on sales but if every PS3 owner does the same thing....

Last edited by dablueguy; 05-01-08 at 03:16 AM.
dablueguy is offline  
Old 05-01-08, 06:09 AM
  #7  
Cool New Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 46
I'm one of the ones who bought in when HD got under $200. Simple choice for me, when I find a BD player (PS3 or stand alone) under $200 I'll buy into BD. Until then I'm pretty happy with what I got...
glennh2os is offline  
Old 05-01-08, 07:46 AM
  #8  
DVD Talk Limited Edition
 
BuckNaked2k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Hartford, CT
Posts: 5,961
Originally Posted by glennh2os
I'm one of the ones who bought in when HD got under $200. Simple choice for me, when I find a BD player (PS3 or stand alone) under $200 I'll buy into BD. Until then I'm pretty happy with what I got...
Do what I did: Buy a PS3 with the SonyStyle credit card for $299...sell the dumb Spiderman movie that comes with it, sel your "5 free" crap-tacular titles on eBay, and you come out darn close to $200.
BuckNaked2k is offline  
Old 05-01-08, 07:52 AM
  #9  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Mr. Cinema's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 18,044
So it's been said many times that the PS3 was likely the reason why BD won the format war, but when we write articles about BD player sales, we leave the PS3 out.

Maybe people are waiting on the new players. Maybe people are waiting for a price drop. Maybe there wasn't enough supply. I've noticed on a few sites over the past several weeks being sold out from time to time of the current group of players.

I don't think February and March are months to expect a large boom of player sales, but that's just my opinion.

Last edited by Mr. Cinema; 05-01-08 at 08:02 AM.
Mr. Cinema is offline  
Old 05-01-08, 08:18 AM
  #10  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Mr. Cinema's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 18,044
Maybe this will get them to lower standalone prices even further. Some, maybe all, new models are arriving with lower list prices than the previous model.
Mr. Cinema is offline  
Old 05-01-08, 08:25 AM
  #11  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Fort Fun, Colorado
Posts: 645
Originally Posted by Mr. Cinema
I don't think February and March are months to expect a large boom of player sales, but that's just my opinion.
Nor are April-October, when it really comes down to it.

on the PS3 factor: You can't get accurate BD player sales numbers by counting it, and you can't get accurate BD player sales numbers by excluding it.
bretski is offline  
Old 05-01-08, 08:50 AM
  #12  
DVD Talk Hero
 
Gizmo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Formerly known as "GizmoDVD"/Southern CA
Posts: 30,403
Originally Posted by BuckNaked2k
Do what I did: Buy a PS3 with the SonyStyle credit card for $299...sell the dumb Spiderman movie that comes with it, sel your "5 free" crap-tacular titles on eBay, and you come out darn close to $200.
Sony has already removed the free Spider-Man 3 Blu-ray disc and the 5 free promotion has ended.
Gizmo is offline  
Old 05-01-08, 08:52 AM
  #13  
DVD Talk Hero
 
Gizmo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Formerly known as "GizmoDVD"/Southern CA
Posts: 30,403
Originally Posted by Mr. Cinema
Maybe this will get them to lower standalone prices even further. Some, maybe all, new models are arriving with lower list prices than the previous model.
Samsung 1500 = same price as the current year old Samsung 1400
Sony S350 = Same price as the year old Sony BDP300
Panasonic BD50 = Estimating to be $100 more then the current Panasonic BD30
Phillips 7200 = Raised MSRP $50 after demise of HD DVD. Sams Club still reflects the old MSRP ($349) as well as a small discount.
Gizmo is offline  
Old 05-01-08, 08:54 AM
  #14  
DVD Talk Limited Edition
 
BuckNaked2k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Hartford, CT
Posts: 5,961
Originally Posted by bretski
on the PS3 factor: You can't get accurate BD player sales numbers by counting it, and you can't get accurate BD player sales numbers by excluding it.
Agreed. The true measure of penetration is reflected in software sales, and the most recent data has reflected about a 6% market share of all optical media sales.

This measurement looks at the top 20 titles only, as beyond that, the percentage of Blu-ray sales drops off precipitously, as the BD title count cannot compete with the 80,000+ DVD titles in print.
BuckNaked2k is offline  
Old 05-01-08, 08:56 AM
  #15  
DVD Talk Limited Edition
 
BuckNaked2k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Hartford, CT
Posts: 5,961
Originally Posted by GizmoDVD
Sony has already removed the free Spider-Man 3 Blu-ray disc and the 5 free promotion has ended.
Thaaaaat's a shame.
BuckNaked2k is offline  
Old 05-01-08, 09:09 AM
  #16  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Mr. Cinema's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 18,044
Originally Posted by GizmoDVD
Samsung 1500 = same price as the current year old Samsung 1400
Sony S350 = Same price as the year old Sony BDP300
Panasonic BD50 = Estimating to be $100 more then the current Panasonic BD30
Phillips 7200 = Raised MSRP $50 after demise of HD DVD. Sams Club still reflects the old MSRP ($349) as well as a small discount.
Did you see where I said "list" price?

Sammy 1400 original "list" price is $499. Sammy 1500 original "list" price is $399.

Sony 300 original "list" price is $499. Sony 350 original "list" price is $399.

What I've read is the BD30 will drop in price once the BD50 arrives, if ever.

Phillips said the list price of $349 was an error and raised it to $399. Is there any direct quote from them that it was due to HD DVD dying, or is that your interpretation?

Last edited by Mr. Cinema; 05-01-08 at 09:14 AM.
Mr. Cinema is offline  
Old 05-01-08, 09:22 AM
  #17  
DVD Talk Godfather
 
Michael Corvin's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 57,519
Originally Posted by BuckNaked2k
Do what I did: Buy a PS3 with the SonyStyle credit card for $299...sell the dumb Spiderman movie that comes with it, sel your "5 free" crap-tacular titles on eBay, and you come out darn close to $200.
That's exactly what I did. I kept Spiderman though, but sold the five freebies.
Michael Corvin is offline  
Old 05-01-08, 09:32 AM
  #18  
DVD Talk Limited Edition
 
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: St Louis, MO
Posts: 6,608
The PS3 numbers are widely available:
January '08 - 269,000
February '08 - 280,800
March '08 - 257,000

So, if my math is right, the PS3 gained 4% from January to February and dropped about 8% from February to March. Adding in the PS3 doesn't paint a much different picture.

All this says to me is that those pundits who insisted throngs of consumers were primarily just waiting for a format winner before jumping in were completely wrong. Tons of other factors were and still are keeping people from making the jump to HDM, including player prices, software prices, hardware profiles, and total satisfaction with upconverted DVD. The BDA has as much work to do now as it did when HD DVD was still around, if not more. I hope they realize that!
kefrank is offline  
Old 05-01-08, 09:47 AM
  #19  
DVD Talk Hero
 
Gizmo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Formerly known as "GizmoDVD"/Southern CA
Posts: 30,403
Originally Posted by Mr. Cinema
Did you see where I said "list" price?

Sammy 1400 original "list" price is $499. Sammy 1500 original "list" price is $399.

Sony 300 original "list" price is $499. Sony 350 original "list" price is $399.

What I've read is the BD30 will drop in price once the BD50 arrives, if ever.

Phillips said the list price of $349 was an error and raised it to $399. Is there any direct quote from them that it was due to HD DVD dying, or is that your interpretation?

Apologies I glossed over the list part. Still does not make it right to sell the new players at the same price when the older ones have had the same price for the past 6 months.

Phillips made a pretty big error then. Do you really think Phillips will come out and give a reason for a $50 price hike? Saying it is an error is better then saying anything else.
Gizmo is offline  
Old 05-01-08, 09:47 AM
  #20  
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Winnipeg, MB, Canada
Posts: 4,813
Originally Posted by GizmoDVD
Because the format can not, and will not survive by a video game system. Stand alones sales are very important. Obviously at this point PS3 is the way to go...but in the future it should be stand alones. I'm still waiting for a comparable stand alone to replace my PS3 with.
Other factors are preventing people going out and getting a BD player (disc prices, hardware prices, falling US economy, DVD upconverted quality, etc.), but having no real good standalone player on the market that is reasonably priced is quite a big factor in the low sales for Blu-ray hardware.

The PS3 is a great BD player, but it shouldn't be. I got the PS3 as a gift so I'm not complaining, but I really don't know if I would've bought one as opposed to some of the standalone BD players coming in the summer and fall. I'm not a "gamer", although I've been playing video games more often now that I have the PS3.
nateman is offline  
Old 05-01-08, 09:51 AM
  #21  
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 9,863
Well why would people be buying into HDM when they can barely afford the gas that gets them to the grocery store where they can't afford to buy any food?

The fact that ANY luxury items like a Blu-ray player are still being purchased is a mystery to me!

Last edited by rfduncan; 05-01-08 at 11:11 AM.
rfduncan is offline  
Old 05-01-08, 09:55 AM
  #22  
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 9,334
Originally Posted by BuckNaked2k
Agreed. The true measure of penetration is reflected in software sales, and the most recent data has reflected about a 6% market share of all optical media sales.

This measurement looks at the top 20 titles only, as beyond that, the percentage of Blu-ray sales drops off precipitously, as the BD title count cannot compete with the 80,000+ DVD titles in print.
Where are you getting the 6% market share? Seems awfully high, considering the Top 20 DVDs v. Top 20 Blu Rays only show about 6% penetration of Blu Ray sales. You take all the other DVDs out there, and you are looking a lot less than 6% market share?
chanster is offline  
Old 05-01-08, 10:33 AM
  #23  
DVD Talk Gold Edition
 
tonymontana313's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 2,746
Originally Posted by GizmoDVD
Samsung 1500 = same price as the current year old Samsung 1400
Sony S350 = Same price as the year old Sony BDP300
Panasonic BD50 = Estimating to be $100 more then the current Panasonic BD30
Phillips 7200 = Raised MSRP $50 after demise of HD DVD. Sams Club still reflects the old MSRP ($349) as well as a small discount.
All the players you mentioned are much better and include more features than their older counterparts therefore the higher price.
tonymontana313 is offline  
Old 05-01-08, 10:35 AM
  #24  
DVD Talk Reviewer/ Admin
 
Adam Tyner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Greenville, South Cackalack
Posts: 21,606
Originally Posted by tonymontana313
All the players you mentioned are much better and include more features than their older counterparts therefore the higher price.
That doesn't necessarily mean anything. Plenty of things come out with a more expansive feature set and carry a lower sticker price. Look at plasma TVs, for instance. A lot of the time, the new model will greatly improve the quality, toss on tons of new features, and still carry a lower MSRP than the previous year's model when it was first released.

It's capitalism. Manufacturers aren't dropping the prices on Blu-ray players because they don't have to.
Adam Tyner is online now  
Old 05-01-08, 10:42 AM
  #25  
DVD Talk Hero
 
Gizmo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Formerly known as "GizmoDVD"/Southern CA
Posts: 30,403
As with most other technology as the products get better the price decreases. Considering HD DVD is now dead they should be making more units thereby driving the cost down. Since most of these CEs are now on Gen3 or 4 players now they should be able to get chips and what not cheaper.
Gizmo is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.