I remember when this used to be the Hi-Def forum :)

There are demos for games and that includes motion duckie.

Now please resume your argument where you each fail to make the other change their opinion.

As an owner of all 3, I'm of the opinion that each has it pluses and minuses and some people will like one more than the other for different reasons.

The only one thing for sure is that right now the Wii is outselling them all, the 360 is 2nd and the PS3 is 3rd. Claiming to know how a system will do in the future because of things that haven't happened yet and fighting over it is stupid. Things change, anything can happen, games can end up being crap after months or years of hype.

Blame Sony for making their game console the best Blu-ray player on the market.

Blame the VG mods that locked the thread there and directed us all here.

Seems like it was warranted with all the <s>fanboy</s> misinformed posts leading the charge. :lol:

Seems like what was warranted?

Posters migrating from the VG forum coming to correct blatant pro-Sony, anti-MS / biased posts.

The only biased mentality here stems from the persistent statements that there aren't games for the PS3 now (don't come back to me with "system sellers" as the PS3 isn't about hardcore gamers only, the "system seller" so far has been excellent future proof BR performance) and it will only be a success if such are released in the future. Nothing could be further from the truth.

The PS3 is selling briskly now and with the introduction of the games mentioned earlier in this thread I don't see a reason why its positive performance won't continue.

Specifically as to the timely fashion posted by Suppermallet...what does it mean? Now, three months from now, six months, the end of the year? It is complete non-sense as the PS3 was not designed to perform as a game console only, hence its initial high-price tag.

The PS3 sells both as a media center and a game console and there will be more than enough funds to go towards software in addition to what is already being planned (strangely Microsoft will be the donor). So, the short-sited notion expressed in this thread that SONY must target the-hardcore gamers/X-BOX owners because this is where the business is is so far off it is not even worth discussing it. You don't have to be a gamer to see how SONY mapped their PS3 strategy. Or, do you?

I also repeatedly posted that the PS3 was designed with future being the foundation. It did everything right for BR thus far and with royalties on the horizon I have every reason to believe game developers will make it a long lasting success. This does not mean that it has to be on top of the video race nor does it mean that it must happen now. Unfortunately a few of the posters here have absolutely the same view on the entire market they had with HDDVD: now is the center of the universe.

Reality of course is different - the PS3 is still the leading BR player in addition to being a game console. So, until the SONY 2.0 players street I have every reason to believe that for them the priority is elsewhere, especially given the fact that no one expected Toshiba to end the war this soon.

Obviously for you an a few others the market looks rather different, which isn't surprising really as all of the comments I've read so far are centered around the idea that the PS3 is a game console only.

Ciao,
Pro-B

The PS3 IS a game console. You can say it isn't all you want. But it is. Spare us this media hub bullshit that companies have been saying for damn near 20 years. People will buy video game consoles to SHOCK! play video games. Not to watch movies. Not in the numbers that make these things successful.

Spin until you are dizzy, but the PS3, right now, is a failure. All signs point to that failure continuing.

I just hope it doesn't drag HDM down with it.

Is that a joke? Odd, I know more than one person who bought it with the intention to watch movies....

Not in the numbers that will make it successful.

While those that bought the system for movies may be a high percentage, they are still an insignificant number compared to the number who buy game consoles to play games.

If there were a BD player from any other company that wasn't total shit would as many people have bought a PS3? Or if SAs were priced at a level where game features added a premium to the cost?

People did not seek out the PS3 because it was a media hub, but because it was the only reliable BD player available, and that group is still a small sample of the greater group of PS3 owners.

So how did Blu Ray prevail over HD-DVD? I'm thinking the PS3 had something to do with it.....just a guess.....as Pro-B said, it's a media center, not a simple game console anymore. Sony basically was thinking a few steps ahead, at the risk of a quick death. They prevailed, and so will the PS3. Not sure why you're so hellbent against it. Anyhow, not my fight, I know whatever anyone says won't convince you. We'll know more of their intentions as the year progresses.

Please stop posting non-sense and find a different topic to express your displeasure with everything SONY.

Yesterday I addressed point by point your fabrications that:
...and you disappeared without leaving a single cohesive argument to offer why and according to what analysis, other than your own, SONY has been such a disaster. Now, you offer yet another incomprehensible statement which tags the PS3 as a game machine only. It isn't, it never was, and it won't be in the future.

Ciao,
Pro-B

While I still don't think you understand the video game market, you have made an interesting statement here: that the PS3 has a system seller and that system seller is Blu-ray. I believe this to be true.

This means that right now (and for the foreseeable future) the only must-have app for the PS3 is Blu-ray. Now, let's think about this for a minute. If we're talking mass adoption, how many average people are going to purchase a Blu-ray player at $400? Not many. So right now you have the PS3 market as hardcore HD media fans and hardcore gamers, and only one of those markets is being catered to with any level of success. Where is the mass adoption going to come from?

No, it was not. Which is why the PS3 has been losing (and badly) this generation.

Now in what reality a Blu-ray 360 add-on in any way helps the PS3 I have no idea.

Absolutely not, but that is the PS3's core market, or should be. Sony wants mass adoption of Blu-ray. That is not going to happen until player prices come down. Once a good BD player comes out at a lower price point than the PS3, where is the PS3's advantage?

Or put more simply: once you take away the PS3's sole system seller (as you yourself stated) what happens to the PS3?

That's me :wave:

Incorrect. It means that the only must have app for the PS3 as far as hard-core gamers are concerned is BR. And if you look far enough into the future the moment MS or Apple begin paying royalties the market becomes unpredictable. For a very long time the PS3 was a loss leader: one or two of the parties mentioned above changes that in a flash (pricing and software being indirectly influenced as well, in simple English: a competitor subsidizing both PS3 and BR on SONY's behalf, hence why MS so carefully worded their announcement as where it makes sense).

Your argument is self-defeating. The moment BR is set for a mass adoption (MS introducing the add-on/and the Fall/Winter introduction of BR players) is the moment when 400$ and now are thrown out of the picture. If you can not see how SONY will be playing on both markets, media and gaming, hence why the PS3 was their workhorse, then you don't understand what they are attempting to accomplish. The issue here, again, is that Toshiba (or to quote other analysts Samsung) ended it all way before anyone anticipated.


It has been performing badly only in the eyes of those who see it as a game console only.

Read above.

Ciao,
Pro-B

You are ridiculous. Your have no grasp of the video game sector of the entertainment industry.

There have been plenty of systems that strove to be more than a video game system, and all of them failed badly.

Also, I am far from bashing everything Sony. I was a day one supporter of the PS1. A day one supporter of PS2. In my eyes, Sony took their eye off the ball, and their position of dominance has slipped away, and I blame the foolish decision to shoe-horn blu-ray into the system for no other reason than to inflate the installed base.

Games are not better because of Blu-Ray. Quite the contrary, there is no noticeable difference between 360 and PS3 versions of games.

They allowed Microsoft to get a full year's jump on them, and I don't understand why they did. This lead time was exactly the thing that allowed Sony to slam the door in MS's face last gen. Just as PS2 was releasing titles worth owning, MS launched with a "more powerful" product, with lackluster titles that never caught on like it could have.

Sound familiar?

I have said this 1000 times, and I think it bears repeating:
Sony sacrificed the top position in a known multi-billion dollar market in hopes of getting in on the ground floor of the next big media format. Time will tell if it was worth the gamble. Right now, it seems like it was a poor choice.

If people can get the library of 360 along with the ability to add in Blu-Ray if they choose, then to me, it is a death sentence for PS3. Right now, Blu-Ray is the best thing PS3 has going for it.

Until you correct the view expressed in the above statement any further discussions are unwarranted.

Ciao,
Pro-B

Enough is enough.

Can those of you participating in this thread who own no XBox 360 games, no PS3 games, no HD DVD titles, and barely more than a dozen Blu-ray titles please refrain from acting as through you are an expert in the video game or High-Def media markets? Thank you for your assistance. It will be much appreciated by those of us who actually have a compelling interest in the topics we come here to discuss.

I bought one for Blu Ray, but I wouldn't have had there been an alternate player for less, hence the reason for this long thread. The NDP #'s spoke volumes on how the majority of PS3 owners didn't realize the PS3 played Blu Ray discs. Slice it as many ways as you'd like, the reason companies spend $$ on NPD is because they give you an insight into what the general public is thinking, not what we assume.

I think that's about enough of this discussion.

We (mods) will discuss and may re-open this with a suspension or two.

namja
Moderator, DVD Talk Forums