am i doing it wrong?...i dont see any difference..
01-24-08, 11:30 AM
#52
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Originally Posted by mdc3000
I thought Admiral was addressing the OP, not you hermes.
His tone is still sort of smug and insulting, though I now feel rather foolish having responded as I did.
01-24-08, 02:03 PM
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hermes, I was indeed responding to the OP, not you. In fact, at the time I was writing my response, your post was not even there, suggesting you may have been writing yours at the same time and finishing slightly before I did. The Spider-man 3 tie-in was purely coincidental, though I can certainly see why you would have thought I was referring to you.
Forgive my smugness, if that's what it is. To me, the difference is quite apparent. Movies like Spider-man 3, Pirates of the Caribbean (particularly 1 and 2), Halloween, and others definitely blow me away, while, indeed, there are some others that do not (Bram Stoker's Dracula, Robocop).
I did direct comparisons with Batman Begins DVD and HD-DVD. The DVD, which I always thought looked outstanding, suddenly looked digital, washed out and faded, while the High Def counterpart looked smooth, film-like and vibrant. I also did a comparison with Superman Returns, switching back and forth from the Blu-Ray to the HBO-HD broadcast, which again, I had always thought looked fantastic. The high def over satellite again didn't look as smooth as the Blu-Ray and the colors didn't pop nearly as much as I thought they did when compared directly to the Blu-Ray. Those subtle differences are not so subtle to me. They are the reason I have completely stopped buying DVDs altogether. I have seen the future. The future is now. I can't go back. I can't! I won't! LOL!!!
Forgive my smugness, if that's what it is. To me, the difference is quite apparent. Movies like Spider-man 3, Pirates of the Caribbean (particularly 1 and 2), Halloween, and others definitely blow me away, while, indeed, there are some others that do not (Bram Stoker's Dracula, Robocop).
I did direct comparisons with Batman Begins DVD and HD-DVD. The DVD, which I always thought looked outstanding, suddenly looked digital, washed out and faded, while the High Def counterpart looked smooth, film-like and vibrant. I also did a comparison with Superman Returns, switching back and forth from the Blu-Ray to the HBO-HD broadcast, which again, I had always thought looked fantastic. The high def over satellite again didn't look as smooth as the Blu-Ray and the colors didn't pop nearly as much as I thought they did when compared directly to the Blu-Ray. Those subtle differences are not so subtle to me. They are the reason I have completely stopped buying DVDs altogether. I have seen the future. The future is now. I can't go back. I can't! I won't! LOL!!!
01-24-08, 02:21 PM
#55
DVD Talk Legend
Back in early to mid 2006 I was very vocal here about DVD still being "good enough", and I couldn't believe the apparent smugness of some posters saying DVD was trash and so forth.
I couldn't believe HD DVD and Blu-Ray could change my perception of DVD so much, but it has. I don't think DVD is "trash", but getting used to HD somehow changes the way you see SD material on the same display. Even the worst HD DVD or Blu-Ray looks better to me than its DVD counterpart, even if only a little.
I recently watched my LOTR EE trilogy for the first time since I got HD DVD and Blu-Ray. I felt these discs had some of the best PQ in my DVD collection (which they still do), but I was not nearly as impressed with the transfers this time, because I have now gotten to used to HDM. I should note I had HD cable for over a year before HDM, and HD cable was not enough to change my perspective on DVD, so for me that proves HDM is far better than HD cable.
I couldn't believe HD DVD and Blu-Ray could change my perception of DVD so much, but it has. I don't think DVD is "trash", but getting used to HD somehow changes the way you see SD material on the same display. Even the worst HD DVD or Blu-Ray looks better to me than its DVD counterpart, even if only a little.
I recently watched my LOTR EE trilogy for the first time since I got HD DVD and Blu-Ray. I felt these discs had some of the best PQ in my DVD collection (which they still do), but I was not nearly as impressed with the transfers this time, because I have now gotten to used to HDM. I should note I had HD cable for over a year before HDM, and HD cable was not enough to change my perspective on DVD, so for me that proves HDM is far better than HD cable.
01-24-08, 05:49 PM
#56
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Originally Posted by bunkaroo
I recently watched my LOTR EE trilogy for the first time since I got HD DVD and Blu-Ray. I felt these discs had some of the best PQ in my DVD collection (which they still do), but I was not nearly as impressed with the transfers this time, because I have now gotten to used to HDM.
01-24-08, 08:14 PM
#58
DVD Talk Special Edition
Originally Posted by hermes10
I think some of all this discussion is due to the interpretation of highly subjective terms like "better" or "great" or "worth it" or even "blown away" (which is clearly hyperbole).
I project to about a 10' wide screen. My projector is capable of accepting inputs from 480i to 1080p, but has a maximum output resolution of 720p. My projector is calibrated. My PS3 settings and projector settings are correct.
I tested the difference between formats by putting an SD version of a movie (like Goodfellas and Spiderman 3) on one input and the HD version of the same movie on another input, and switching back and forth --and there is no possibility of confusion here either, since every time I switch inputs my projector tells me the resolution of the image it is receiving on that input (though granted, Goodfellas is not the best representation for HD). And granted, my projector is only capable of 720p. I could tell the difference but it was not great. I was not "blown away." My wife couldn't see much of any difference until I told her where in the image to look and the kinds of things to look for.
I thought 3:10 to Yuma looked pretty good in HD and I "felt" like I was seeing a "better" image, but I was not overwhelmed. I can easily afford a PS3 player I don't need, and to purchase Blu-Ray movies, and in fact, I intend to purchase many new movies in this format, when available; and when I upgrade my projector, perhaps I will see a bigger difference. However, if I was strapped for cash, I don't think I could have convinced myself that the picture quality was so much better that I needed this upgrade. And I don't put on a SD movie (assuming it had a good transfer) and find it hard to watch after seeing the picture quality of HD.
At this point, my experience suggests to me that HD is likely to remain a niche format for some time to come. Is it better? I think so, but that quality has a price tag. I have no idea how many people, given all the variables (like relative scarcity of content) and different kinds of display devices that take HD inputs --and display them at various, and not necessarily, the highest resolutions-- are going to think the difference is worth the money for an upgrade.
I project to about a 10' wide screen. My projector is capable of accepting inputs from 480i to 1080p, but has a maximum output resolution of 720p. My projector is calibrated. My PS3 settings and projector settings are correct.
I tested the difference between formats by putting an SD version of a movie (like Goodfellas and Spiderman 3) on one input and the HD version of the same movie on another input, and switching back and forth --and there is no possibility of confusion here either, since every time I switch inputs my projector tells me the resolution of the image it is receiving on that input (though granted, Goodfellas is not the best representation for HD). And granted, my projector is only capable of 720p. I could tell the difference but it was not great. I was not "blown away." My wife couldn't see much of any difference until I told her where in the image to look and the kinds of things to look for.
I thought 3:10 to Yuma looked pretty good in HD and I "felt" like I was seeing a "better" image, but I was not overwhelmed. I can easily afford a PS3 player I don't need, and to purchase Blu-Ray movies, and in fact, I intend to purchase many new movies in this format, when available; and when I upgrade my projector, perhaps I will see a bigger difference. However, if I was strapped for cash, I don't think I could have convinced myself that the picture quality was so much better that I needed this upgrade. And I don't put on a SD movie (assuming it had a good transfer) and find it hard to watch after seeing the picture quality of HD.
At this point, my experience suggests to me that HD is likely to remain a niche format for some time to come. Is it better? I think so, but that quality has a price tag. I have no idea how many people, given all the variables (like relative scarcity of content) and different kinds of display devices that take HD inputs --and display them at various, and not necessarily, the highest resolutions-- are going to think the difference is worth the money for an upgrade.
Now, I received a Toshiba A2 player a couple of months ago. HD DVD's look great, but I'll agree that there's not much of a difference. In fact, over the holidays I had my father and brother visiting. We went to my theater to watch The Bourne Ultimatum in HD DVD. About halfway through the movie, we had to pause it to go get my boys from school. We were going to finish the movie that evening after the kids were in bed. Before resuming the movie I switched to the SD version without telling my brother or father. Now, I could immediately tell the difference, although it wasnt' HUGE. My brother and father never said a word. Neither one of them noticed. After about 10 minutes, I stopped it and told them. My brother said "I thought it didn't look quite the same", my dad didn't say anything.
IMO, if you have equipment that does a VERY good job of displaying SD, the differences aren't that great. Now, maybe if my PJ were 1080p, I'd also notice the difference more. I don't know. I do see a difference, but it's not huge.
For those that think the difference is "night and day", does your SD look as good as those screen shots? And yes, all my equipment is set up correctly and my PJ is calibrated.
01-24-08, 08:32 PM
#59
DVD Talk Legend
I personally can't stand watching dvds on my calibrated Sanyo Z3/106' set up.
If you really want to see how crappy dvds look at larger sizes, buy a Da-Lite Hi Power screen.
If you really want to see how crappy dvds look at larger sizes, buy a Da-Lite Hi Power screen.
01-24-08, 11:19 PM
#60
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Originally Posted by spartanstew
Now, maybe if my PJ were 1080p, I'd also notice the difference more. I don't know. I do see a difference, but it's not huge.
Originally Posted by spartanstew
For those that think the difference is "night and day", does your SD look as good as those screen shots? And yes, all my equipment is set up correctly and my PJ is calibrated.
The only reason I am keeping the 59AVi is because I love SACD and DVD-Audio through the i-link to the VSX-56TXi.
One of these days I am going to break down and buy some seperates and a 1080P projector.
01-25-08, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by spartanstew
IMO, if you have equipment that does a VERY good job of displaying SD, the differences aren't that great. Now, maybe if my PJ were 1080p, I'd also notice the difference more. I don't know. I do see a difference, but it's not huge.
01-25-08, 10:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Lt Ripley
I think 1080P would make a world of difference on a screen the size of yours compared to 720P.
Of course, I appreciate the possibility that this perception may change once I upgrade to a 1080p projector --and that is part of my consideration in buying new movies on Blu-Ray where possible.
01-25-08, 02:03 PM
#63
DVD Talk Gold Edition
I'm in the other boat where I'm preparing to get a 1080p projector in April, and I'm snatching up "pure" 1080p Blu-ray content where available. I just ordered a new receiver that has six HDMI connections and I'll be running one HDMI cable out to the projector. Currently I have a 34 inch CRT HDTV that outputs to 1080i, and I sit 10 feet away.
I realize that not everything is "to spec" in the sense that there are some BDs that look bad, and some DVDs that look phenomenal. I'll be magnifying my viewing area almost three times when I get the 92 inch diagonal screen for the new projector and will be sitting 16 feet back. At that point the difference in resolution may become much more apparent than I currently interpret.
I realize that not everything is "to spec" in the sense that there are some BDs that look bad, and some DVDs that look phenomenal. I'll be magnifying my viewing area almost three times when I get the 92 inch diagonal screen for the new projector and will be sitting 16 feet back. At that point the difference in resolution may become much more apparent than I currently interpret.
01-25-08, 02:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Jericho
When I hooked up the PS3 I noticed it looked poor in comparison. It was then I realized that my settings on the PS3 were off. When I fixed that, viola it was all good.
01-25-08, 05:16 PM
#66
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Originally Posted by hermes10
In my case, I can't say it won't until I get a new projector, but by this logic, an increase from 720p to 1080p is about a 50% increase in resolution --as is an increase from 480p to 720p --and the difference is not immense to me. Of course, from 480p to 1080p is a doubling of resolution, and if I'd seen that kind of change, maybe I'd be more impressed right now with HD than I am. I'm impressed enough that I will buy new DVD's, where possible, in Blu-Ray, but I feel no compulsion whatsoever to replace more than a handful of SD movies --like 2001. I'm certainly not going to stop buying SD DVD because most of what I want to see isn't even available on Blu-Ray.
01-26-08, 09:04 PM
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Originally Posted by hermes10
In my case, I can't say it won't until I get a new projector, but by this logic, an increase from 720p to 1080p is about a 50% increase in resolution --as is an increase from 480p to 720p --and the difference is not immense to me. Of course, from 480p to 1080p is a doubling of resolution, and if I'd seen that kind of change, maybe I'd be more impressed right now with HD than I am. I'm impressed enough that I will buy new DVD's, where possible, in Blu-Ray, but I feel no compulsion whatsoever to replace more than a handful of SD movies --like 2001. I'm certainly not going to stop buying SD DVD because most of what I want to see isn't even available on Blu-Ray.
Of course, I appreciate the possibility that this perception may change once I upgrade to a 1080p projector --and that is part of my consideration in buying new movies on Blu-Ray where possible.
Of course, I appreciate the possibility that this perception may change once I upgrade to a 1080p projector --and that is part of my consideration in buying new movies on Blu-Ray where possible.
There is such a HUGE difference on my ISF-calibrated 70" XBR2 1080p display between upconverted DVD and Blu-Ray/HD-DVD. I have not purchased a regular DVD in over a year... I can't watch them any more; they look craptacular.
If you have the right display, the right connections, and the right calibration, the difference *IS* night and day. As stark as one could ever imagine.
I say this not to be critical or insulting, but rather I feel sorry for those that, for whatever reason, can't see the difference and thus are deprived of the goosebumps that HD-DVD and Blu-Ray provide...
01-26-08, 11:12 PM
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Originally Posted by RockyMtnBri
There are a bunch, under BD/DVD and Display settings.
01-26-08, 11:19 PM
#70
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Originally Posted by dharding
I shake my head when I read posts like this.
There is such a HUGE difference on my ISF-calibrated 70" XBR2 1080p display between upconverted DVD and Blu-Ray/HD-DVD. I have not purchased a regular DVD in over a year... I can't watch them any more; they look craptacular.
If you have the right display, the right connections, and the right calibration, the difference *IS* night and day. As stark as one could ever imagine.
I say this not to be critical or insulting, but rather I feel sorry for those that, for whatever reason, can't see the difference and thus are deprived of the goosebumps that HD-DVD and Blu-Ray provide...
There is such a HUGE difference on my ISF-calibrated 70" XBR2 1080p display between upconverted DVD and Blu-Ray/HD-DVD. I have not purchased a regular DVD in over a year... I can't watch them any more; they look craptacular.
If you have the right display, the right connections, and the right calibration, the difference *IS* night and day. As stark as one could ever imagine.
I say this not to be critical or insulting, but rather I feel sorry for those that, for whatever reason, can't see the difference and thus are deprived of the goosebumps that HD-DVD and Blu-Ray provide...
It isn't that I can't stand to watch standard DVDs, but I definitely notice the difference and it is huge. I'm also not going to replace all my DVDs and my Blu-rays may never catch up to them. However, future purchases will be on Blu-ray unless it is a TV set or something I don't have to have in HD.
01-27-08, 10:05 AM
#71
DVD Talk Gold Edition
shelland...
"Wrong" isn't the appropriate word as far as the settings go. You can change them back and forth - the difference for some of the settings are visually obvious (like DVD upconverting - I saw it looked better when I had a DVD with subtitles playing) versus others (like Superwhite - I have it turned on but cannot see a discernible difference). My suggestion is to make each change one by one and see if you can tell the difference. I know one of them I can't use right now because my TV is 1080i is the 1080p/24 setting. My TV display actually goes black and returns to the setting in the "off" position.
BTW, I noticed we almost have the same speaker setup! My media room is only 12 by 16, so I went with Monitor 7s and the same center channel as you, but I chose the ADP 190s. I'm buying a second pair since I'm getting a Sony STR DE5300ES receiver this week that supports 7.1 surround. My room was pre-wired for it, but my older receiver was made in 1999.
"Wrong" isn't the appropriate word as far as the settings go. You can change them back and forth - the difference for some of the settings are visually obvious (like DVD upconverting - I saw it looked better when I had a DVD with subtitles playing) versus others (like Superwhite - I have it turned on but cannot see a discernible difference). My suggestion is to make each change one by one and see if you can tell the difference. I know one of them I can't use right now because my TV is 1080i is the 1080p/24 setting. My TV display actually goes black and returns to the setting in the "off" position.
BTW, I noticed we almost have the same speaker setup! My media room is only 12 by 16, so I went with Monitor 7s and the same center channel as you, but I chose the ADP 190s. I'm buying a second pair since I'm getting a Sony STR DE5300ES receiver this week that supports 7.1 surround. My room was pre-wired for it, but my older receiver was made in 1999.
Last edited by RockyMtnBri; 01-27-08 at 10:10 AM.
01-27-08, 10:25 AM
#72
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Originally Posted by Knives
I think you are a TROLL OP!
Stick to Betamax!
Stick to Betamax!
01-27-08, 12:24 PM
#73
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Seems the most rabid supporters of HD on here are the folks with HUGE displays....I've seen 90", 106", even 126" cited. Dear Gawd, of course you are going to see a difference at these dimensions.
This is why I feel HD optical media may remain a niche market sought after by only the true AV enthusiast. Mid-level system guys (like me), and the J6P's of the world with screens under 52" won't notice an exponential difference over upconverted DVD to justify replacing entire collections, especially when you consider variables like superior SD DVDs vs. inferior HD discs.
This is why I feel HD optical media may remain a niche market sought after by only the true AV enthusiast. Mid-level system guys (like me), and the J6P's of the world with screens under 52" won't notice an exponential difference over upconverted DVD to justify replacing entire collections, especially when you consider variables like superior SD DVDs vs. inferior HD discs.
01-27-08, 02:25 PM
#74
DVD Talk Legend
Originally Posted by BuckNaked2k
Seems the most rabid supporters of HD on here are the folks with HUGE displays....I've seen 90", 106", even 126" cited. Dear Gawd, of course you are going to see a difference at these dimensions.
This is why I feel HD optical media may remain a niche market sought after by only the true AV enthusiast. Mid-level system guys (like me), and the J6P's of the world with screens under 52" won't notice an exponential difference over upconverted DVD to justify replacing entire collections, especially when you consider variables like superior SD DVDs vs. inferior HD discs.
This is why I feel HD optical media may remain a niche market sought after by only the true AV enthusiast. Mid-level system guys (like me), and the J6P's of the world with screens under 52" won't notice an exponential difference over upconverted DVD to justify replacing entire collections, especially when you consider variables like superior SD DVDs vs. inferior HD discs.
I will agree the impact of 1080p HD discs becomes less as you get smaller in screen size and/or viewing distance and I will also agree not everyone views things exactly the same. Some people may never need anything better than standard DVDs no matter what the screen size. I still know people in 2008 that have HD displays and hook things up to them with composite connections. I've long since given up on trying to explain it to them.
01-27-08, 03:05 PM
#75
DVD Talk Special Edition
Originally Posted by dharding
I shake my head when I read posts like this.
There is such a HUGE difference on my ISF-calibrated 70" XBR2 1080p display between upconverted DVD and Blu-Ray/HD-DVD. I have not purchased a regular DVD in over a year... I can't watch them any more; they look craptacular.
If you have the right display, the right connections, and the right calibration, the difference *IS* night and day. As stark as one could ever imagine.
I say this not to be critical or insulting, but rather I feel sorry for those that, for whatever reason, can't see the difference and thus are deprived of the goosebumps that HD-DVD and Blu-Ray provide...
There is such a HUGE difference on my ISF-calibrated 70" XBR2 1080p display between upconverted DVD and Blu-Ray/HD-DVD. I have not purchased a regular DVD in over a year... I can't watch them any more; they look craptacular.
If you have the right display, the right connections, and the right calibration, the difference *IS* night and day. As stark as one could ever imagine.
I say this not to be critical or insulting, but rather I feel sorry for those that, for whatever reason, can't see the difference and thus are deprived of the goosebumps that HD-DVD and Blu-Ray provide...