Go Back  DVD Talk Forum > DVD Discussions > HD Talk
Reload this Page >

Sony CEO Sees 'Stalemate' in Disc Fight

HD Talk The place to discuss Blu-ray, 4K and all other forms and formats of HD and HDTV.

Sony CEO Sees 'Stalemate' in Disc Fight

Old 11-10-07, 03:27 PM
  #126  
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 214
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by dharding
You can now buy a PS3 and an HD-A3 for $499 TOTAL

How do I do that NOW? Isn't the PS3 $399 and the A3 $299 for a total of $699.98? There's a known upcoming $169 sale for the A3 but on a given day until then, is it under $299? And isn't is 1080i? The theoretical unified format player could have great secret and BF sales too.
Old 11-10-07, 04:10 PM
  #127  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,702
Received 661 Likes on 458 Posts
Originally Posted by pricdews
How do I do that NOW? Isn't the PS3 $399 and the A3 $299 for a total of $699.98? There's a known upcoming $169 sale for the A3 but on a given day until then, is it under $299? And isn't is 1080i? The theoretical unified format player could have great secret and BF sales too.
Theoretical no more, the Samsung dual-format player is fully HD DVD and BD Profile 1.1 compliant, with 1080/24p output.

Some recent news on it:
http://www.electronichouse.com/artic...player_better/
http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/34532/97/

The site OnSale has more specs, and currently has it on sale:
http://www.onsale.com/shop/detail~dp...~220.0000.aspx

With a sale price of $779.99, it is still more than buying the cheaper players of both formats at their regular price. However, the advanced features plus the ability to play both formats on one player may help offset the extra $80. It's due out early/mid December though, so no Black Friday sales.
Old 11-10-07, 06:53 PM
  #128  
DVD Talk Legend
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Pa
Posts: 11,956
Received 15 Likes on 13 Posts
Originally Posted by pro-bassoonist
...and...


Here's what I have to say, dealing with reality:

If you support both formats then de facto you endorse the current market division. Which according to the second sentence of the first quote you are content with.

If you however are criticizing the failure of the dual market pointing it is, let's use your description, fucked up I don't understand why you support its existence to begin with.

Pro-B
Because I am a film enthusiast first, and a technology geek second. Just because I support both formats doesn't mean I can't state my opinion that they fucked up the from a business perspective, which is exactly what this thread is about.
Old 11-10-07, 07:10 PM
  #129  
DVD Talk Limited Edition
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,512
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Pro-Bassoonist does have a good point though. If you want to be format neutral and get both, that's perfectly fine. But then don't go on and complain about a format war. It shouldn't really matter to you anyway, since, as it's been mentioned, you're covered.
Old 11-10-07, 08:17 PM
  #130  
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
 
Paul_SD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Hiking the Sisyphian trail
Posts: 8,700
Received 79 Likes on 58 Posts
as far as I'm concerned- if you support one format only- that makes you a format cheerleader first, and an HD fan/enthusiast second. Everything you say will be filtered thru the perception of inherent bias. It doesn't matter if you strongly believe something and can find relevant quotes to back it up- your format allegiance colors how you percieve and process any given situation/comment/scrap of news.
Bill Hunt is the perfect example of this.
He went off on a 500 word rant denouncing the $98 player sale at Wal-mart, why its bad for the consumer, why it heralds the downfall of the format, etc, etc- but the relatively underwhelming sales of S-m3 (relative to Bd capable player ownership) or the latest (of many) cancellations of Fox/MGM titles get dismissed with an off hand aside.

when you go format independant, you can see BS from either side for what it is.
You can't afford to do that when you're a cheerleader for only one team.
Old 11-10-07, 08:23 PM
  #131  
DVD Talk Reviewer/ Admin
 
Adam Tyner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Greenville, South Cackalack
Posts: 28,938
Received 1,920 Likes on 1,261 Posts
Originally Posted by Paul_SD
as far as I'm concerned- if you support one format only- that makes you a format cheerleader first, and an HD fan/enthusiast second.
I don't think that's the case. There are plenty of people who might reasonably look at the selection of titles on each format and decide one suits their needs well enough that they don't need a second, or they could just not be willing to find the advantages of the other format worth the additional cost. I was that way with Blu-ray up until around six months ago. I wasn't waving a red flag around or anything; it's just that at the time, they just didn't have enough titles to attract my interest. Simply owning one or the other doesn't make someone a fanboy.

It's the partisanship that I think is unhealthy, poisoning both forums like this and the mental well-being of otherwise rational people.

I think there have been enormous advantages to both formats coming to market, and there's no doubt whatsoever in my mind that we're far better off for it. I'm an early adopter because I want instant gratification, and that's why I own both formats -- if there's content out there that I want and is accessible, there's no reason for me not to indulge. I don't support HD DVD. I don't support Blu-ray. I support HD media.
Old 11-10-07, 08:31 PM
  #132  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 845
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Perhaps someone needs to define “support.” Just because one is a film enthusiast and has chosen to purchase both Blu-ray and HD-DVD movies does not necessarily mean that person approves of how the industry has handled the HD media situation.
Old 11-10-07, 08:59 PM
  #133  
DVD Talk Platinum Edition
 
MBoyd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: AUSTIN - Land of Mexican Coke
Posts: 3,921
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
I have the cash in hand to buy a Blu Ray. I've talked about buying a Pioneer Elite. But I keep hearing about 1.0, 1.1, 2.0 - I dont want to buy something that might not play next years discs.

Anyway I went and added a bunch at deep discount and found maybe only 6 -7 Blu Ray exclusives I was interested in.
Old 11-10-07, 09:21 PM
  #134  
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
 
Paul_SD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Hiking the Sisyphian trail
Posts: 8,700
Received 79 Likes on 58 Posts
I probably should have clarified something I wrote in that last post.

Anything a one format owner says or hears, is bound to be filtered by the listener thru a perception of inherent bias.

I noticed this in earlier dialouge between Pro-B and myself and between him and others.

Though I own both, I admit that I am biased towards HD DVD for a number of what I think are practical reasons. However, being format independant, I no longer feel I have to soft peddle my grievences, while at the same time continuing to slam the other side for every mis-step.
Honestly- going format independant almost instantly elevates you above all the noise and clatter and stinkiness of the partisans below. It is refreshing.
And I find it sad that there are people who can't appreciate that.

If one side isn't aerodynamic enough to soar on its own unassisted, then maybe it deserves to be grounded? Instead of trying to tell everyone else to get off the runway and stop trying to take flight.

Last edited by Paul_SD; 11-10-07 at 09:26 PM.
Old 11-10-07, 09:50 PM
  #135  
DVD Talk Gold Edition
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: gloucester, uk
Posts: 2,154
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Originally Posted by Paul_SD
I probably should have clarified something I wrote in that last post.

Anything a one format owner says or hears, is bound to be filtered by the listener thru a perception of inherent bias.
i agree entirely with this. when reading any article the bias of the reader is almost certain to asert itself and filter the content to highlight passages which strike a chord with their preconcieved ideas. the word "sony" for instance, seems to set off flashing lights in certain hd dvd fan's minds, while "price is the determining factor" seems to have a similar effect for bd fans.


If one side isn't aerodynamic enough to soar on its own unassisted, then maybe it deserves to be grounded? Instead of trying to tell everyone else to get off the runway and stop trying to take flight.
i suspect many partisan fans would agree with you, though perhaps disagree on the specifics. is blu ray the culprit for needing to be included in the ps3 to survive, or is it hd dvd to blame for needing price cuts below (most likely) cost to stay in the game? the answer will probably depend on the colour of the reader's bias.
Old 11-10-07, 10:05 PM
  #136  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,702
Received 661 Likes on 458 Posts
Originally Posted by Paul_SD
as far as I'm concerned- if you support one format only- that makes you a format cheerleader first, and an HD fan/enthusiast second. Everything you say will be filtered thru the perception of inherent bias.
I'm with Adam here, I don't think only owning one format means that person is inherently biased against the other. I personally have just bought into HD DVD because of the sales, and if there were similar prices on a fully-functional BD player, I'd buy that too.

There was bias for/against the formats before they were even released, and thus before anyone could support only one format. And simply owning a format doesn't mean you can't be aware of its flaws. As an HD DVD owner, I can still see that there are a lot of obstacles for the format before it could "win" the format war, if it ever does. And while others here have in the past accused me of BD bias, I've been well aware of its faults since the beginning. The two main ones, the higher price and the lack of finalized spec support on most players, are what have kept me from buying into that format.

Like Adam said, it's partisanship, and really blind partisanship, that's the problem. It's okay to "support" only one format, but that doesn't mean that one has to always paint the competitor unfavorably, while pretending that everything is hunky-dory with the format one owns. I imagine all of us here were/are DVD "supporters," but that never stopped people here from heaping a healthy dose of criticism regarding the development of that format and it's market.
Old 11-10-07, 10:11 PM
  #137  
Suspended
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Formerly known as "GizmoDVD"/Southern CA
Posts: 31,779
Received 101 Likes on 87 Posts
Originally Posted by pricdews
How do I do that NOW? Isn't the PS3 $399 and the A3 $299 for a total of $699.98? There's a known upcoming $169 sale for the A3 but on a given day until then, is it under $299? And isn't is 1080i? The theoretical unified format player could have great secret and BF sales too.
If you had a time machine and could back to last week, you can have done that. There were numerous threads devoted to the A2 being $99 at Wal-Mart and Best Buy several days before hand. The A3 was at the same time also $199.
Both players are 1080i, but I won't get into it.
Old 11-10-07, 10:12 PM
  #138  
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Illinois
Posts: 835
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I'd own half a dozen formats if that's what it took to watch all the movies I want to see in the best possible presentation.
Old 11-10-07, 10:58 PM
  #139  
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 214
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by GizmoDVD
If you had a time machine and could back to last week, you can have done that. There were numerous threads devoted to the A2 being $99 at Wal-Mart and Best Buy several days before hand. The A3 was at the same time also $199.
Both players are 1080i, but I won't get into it.
#1) I don't have a time machine and don't think anyone else does either.

#2) It was confirmed 1 day beforehand with no guarantee that it'd be in stock if sold out early (don't think there were rainchecks).

I ultimately decided to hold of for BF sales to get a 1080p player. I sort of regret it now. I think it's a stretch to claim there's a $99 (or even $199) player on the market NOW. For all the buzz that may reach the broader public, those who missed the deal don't necessarily have such a cheap option "now".

Getting back to the original quote, it sounds to me like Sony has accepted that HD-DVD has gained a strong enough foothold to stick around for a while (at the least) and there's no anticipation of events in the next few months deciding the format war. It also seems to indicate that Sony doesn't plan any major counter to the recent moves by Toshiba. Anything more read into the comments is speculation IMO.

Saying he wished there was one format is one thing. Saying how he would have maneuvered to make it one format is another. I think this is now shaping up as a battle about who can afford to keep to losing money for the next couple of years. I still believe that 2 formats persisting means that both sides lose (though agree it's debatable).
Old 11-12-07, 07:06 PM
  #140  
DVD Talk Limited Edition
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 5,189
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
There are 100s of titles available on just HD-DVD. I only want to watch 20% of them, and I'd need 10x more free time than I have to even watch those.

I paid $200 dollars for an HD-DVD player 6 months ago. I've watched some great films - watched Robin Hood with the family last weekend. Great experience.

I don't care about the format war and I don't care if both formats remain niche. I'm enjoying great films in incredible picture quality for very little money. That's good enough for me.
Old 11-12-07, 09:39 PM
  #141  
DVD Talk Reviewer
 
pro-bassoonist's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Blu-ray.com
Posts: 10,380
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Interview Script

Via the Digital Bits:
http://www.thedigitalbits.com/#mytwocents


The deal is this: Howard Stringer was being interviewed by Business Week's Steven J. Adler about his career at the 92nd Street Y in NYC on Thursday. He was asked a few questions about Blu-ray Disc and the format war, and he spoke about it for maybe 5 minutes out of a 90 minute interview. Here's the actual text of the relevant portion of the interview:


---begin excerpt---

Adler: Of course, one of the big fights right now is Blu-ray vs. HD-DVD for the high definition video market. I mean, the first and most obvious question is: Shouldn't there just be one format? Why should people have to choose between the two? And is there any possibility that we'll be heading there?

Stringer: I should point out that that is not part of the software battle. I mean, that's actually in some ways sort of anachronistic. We're fighting over a packaged goods hardware that will not go on forever, from a classic sense. We have a more expensive version, as Sony tends to, and Toshiba has a cheaper version, which seems to keep getting cheaper. I believe it has slowed down the progress of high definition packaged goods. Oddly, the studios kind of liked it for a while. They were able to leverage one of us against each other. But in the end, it's counterproductive. We have a sort of stalemate at the moment. As you know, they had fewer studios, but then they paid a lot of money for Paramount. So we have four studios and they have two or three studios. It's a difficult... it's a difficult fight. There was a chance to integrate it before I became CEO. This is something I inherited. And I don't know what broke down. I wish I could go back there, because I heard it was all about saving face and losing face, and all the rest of it. But it's not a battle about the digital future. That's what's so strange about it. If it doesn't work out, that doesn't say very much about where we're all going. It's just... it's a scorecard: one-nothing or something. But it doesn't mean as much as all that. PlayStation 3 will still go on playing games. It would have to have a different disk drive. And that's about it really.

Adler: So when a consumer now has to choose between the two, if they want to get into the high definition video, Wal-Mart was selling the Toshiba HD-DVD for $99 last Friday for a couple of days. Usually, it's been $199 there. I think your list price is $499 for Blu-ray. That's an enormously big difference, particularly in a slowing economy. Can you play that game with the difference being that great?

Stringer: Well... we've been selling them as fast as we're making them because the brand -- first of all, we're not the only ones selling them at that price. So is Panasonic, so is Samsung, so is Sharp. And one of the reasons it's more expensive is because it does more. The bandwidth is greater. If you just want a two-hour movie, the Toshiba version is a high definition picture. But we thought that to drive high definition into the customer's imagination, you should future-proof the disks so that you could have director's cuts, which are fairly obvious. We have six to seven hours of bandwidth available. You can have interactivity in three dimensions. We would be prepared to allow the package goods to survive much longer by making it much more innovative. But that does make the player more expensive. Now, they all come down. The race is to bring costs down. It always is in consumer electronics. So it isn't going to stay at $499.

Adler: But are you surprised by how little Toshiba can sell its unit for?

Stringer: No, because -- look, I can sell it for a dollar. I'd lose a lot of money, but if you want to go that route, it's a tough competition, and it seems to be about a lot of things, including face. So if you want to cut the price down and engage us in a price war, that's a different system. We were trying to win on the merits, which we were doing for a while until Paramount changed sides.

Adler: Microsoft seems to have an interesting role in this. They're selling add-on HD-DVD drives for the -- they're taking HD-DVD to the Xbox, and Xbox competes strongly with you. Is Microsoft kind of working in cahoots or in alliance with Toshiba on HD-DVD? Is that a competitive challenge to you?

Stringer: Only the spirits know. [laughs] Yeah... you never know with Microsoft do you? You never know. Xbox versus PS3 is sort of a subplot. What Microsoft's role is in that? I don't know. We're still selling software at a faster level than Toshiba. Obviously, we care about the software side more than the Toshiba does. It doesn't have a studio. It doesn't own a studio. So it's in our interest to -- actually the most significant thing in some ways about Blu-ray, going back to Microsoft... the Blu-ray Disc has a very high security level, which Fox in particular, but also other studios, was most excited about -- wanted to have some protection from instant ripping. So the specs that went into the Blu-ray, which were done in conjunction with many studios, had this security level. That is probably not in Microsoft's interests. The Toshiba disk is certainly far easier to rip. Whether you like that or don't like that depends on your consumer enthusiasm.

---end of excerpt---
That was the extent of it. Naturally, the one comment out of the entire 90 minutes (or even this small portion) that the AP ran with is the stalemate bit. Since then, it's been spun like crazy. We've seen commentary from people who weren't there proclaiming what a "remarkable admission" it is. Some have even gone so far as to claim that Stringer declared Blu-ray a failure and that Sony is about to give up the battle. All of which mischaracterizes what he actually said and meant.

Hey... this kind of thing happens, especially when people let their passions over this stuff get the better of them. We've even occasionally made the mistake of jumping to conclusions in the past ourselves. But here are the facts: Sony and the rest of the BD camp's commitment to Blu-ray Disc hasn't wavered in the slightest, and from everything they've ever told me both on and off the record, that isn't likely to change anytime soon. And while we're at it, Warner supports BOTH HD-DVD and Blu-ray Disc, and from everything they've ever told me both on and off the record, that isn't likely to change anytime soon either. So everybody can relax and take a deep breath. If you're a Blu-ray fan, enjoy all the great Blu-ray titles coming out now. If you're an HD-DVD fan, same thing.

It's just another day in this silly format war, which at this point has been taken to unfortunate extremes by some. As we said last week, it's worth keeping in mind that no kittens will be harmed in this thing, whatever the outcome.



Ciao,
Pro-B
Old 11-12-07, 09:51 PM
  #142  
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: NY NY
Posts: 622
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts


Sorry, but can't muster up much interest in any of this. Instead, think I will go watch THE SHINING on HD-DVD. Later!
Old 11-12-07, 10:09 PM
  #143  
DVD Talk Limited Edition
 
GreenMonkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 5,578
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Originally Posted by pricdews
You're right that there are few clear cut downsides to having to deal with 2 formats. Some are small nuisances.


Likely
1. Slower transition of general public to HD formats. Many are sitting out waiting for an end to the format war (even if there is no "need" to wait). If HD formats remain secondary to DVD, some titles may not be released in HD that othwerise might have been.
...
So there might not be that much clear cut downside to having 2 formats. I think the problem is with perception. It just seems wasteful and inefficient. It confuses the public...
Polls have shown that the 'war' is way down the list of reasons people don't buy into HD or BD. There is just simple apathy, don't want to pay more, DVD good enough, etc. Hell a lot of them think DVDs are hi-def, or that they are watching Hi-def over coax cable.

The general public is NEVER going to transition to the HD formats. It's simply not going to happen. You'd be lucky to see this happen in the next decade no matter what the price of the players.

This is a niche and will stay a niche. I think you could have $100 one-format players and it would still be a niche (albeit, a much bigger niche than now). HDTV penetration, as well as people who give a rat's ass about PQ, is minimal.

People would continue to buy $6 catalog titles on DVD and $15 new releases on DVD even if they were using a cheap single format player. Because DVDs can be played on their kid's portable DVD player and on computers and at school and at their friend's house and on vacation and wherever and they are substantially cheaper.

The future is combo players for those of is in the niche, just like the DVD +/- R 'war'. People insisted there could be no winner, but once you had drives that were cheap enough and everything but the oldest of old DVD players that played both, no one really cared much whether you were popping in a + or a -.

The only thing I could see convincing the general public to switch to HD formats would be, MAYBE, would be cheaper or equal prices to DVDs. And why would the studios bother with that?

Last edited by GreenMonkey; 11-12-07 at 10:12 PM.
Old 11-12-07, 10:32 PM
  #144  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Drexl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 16,077
Likes: 0
Received 15 Likes on 13 Posts
Originally Posted by GreenMonkey
Polls have shown that the 'war' is way down the list of reasons people don't buy into HD or BD. There is just simple apathy, don't want to pay more, DVD good enough, etc. Hell a lot of them think DVDs are hi-def, or that they are watching Hi-def over coax cable.

The general public is NEVER going to transition to the HD formats. It's simply not going to happen. You'd be lucky to see this happen in the next decade no matter what the price of the players.

This is a niche and will stay a niche. I think you could have $100 one-format players and it would still be a niche (albeit, a much bigger niche than now). HDTV penetration, as well as people who give a rat's ass about PQ, is minimal.

People would continue to buy $6 catalog titles on DVD and $15 new releases on DVD even if they were using a cheap single format player. Because DVDs can be played on their kid's portable DVD player and on computers and at school and at their friend's house and on vacation and wherever and they are substantially cheaper.

The future is combo players for those of is in the niche, just like the DVD +/- R 'war'. People insisted there could be no winner, but once you had drives that were cheap enough and everything but the oldest of old DVD players that played both, no one really cared much whether you were popping in a + or a -.

The only thing I could see convincing the general public to switch to HD formats would be, MAYBE, would be cheaper or equal prices to DVDs. And why would the studios bother with that?
I would agree with this, but they may gradually phase out DVDs over the course of several years so that eventually everyone will have to buy in or do without. I'm sure there are people that would still buy VHS tapes if they could. Also, it's getting to the point where you can't find a pay phone anymore, so even those who don't want or have a pressing need for a cell phone will almost have to get one at some point. HD discs may be like those.

That's how I see myself with "owned" (not rental) downloads; I'll be one of the holdouts.
Old 11-12-07, 10:50 PM
  #145  
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
 
Paul_SD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Hiking the Sisyphian trail
Posts: 8,700
Received 79 Likes on 58 Posts
Pro-B thanks for posting that.

a few comments

1) in the first answer Stringer gives, it is still very surprising that he is illustrating the (potential) outcome in the negative for Bd and Sony. Sorry Bill, but this IS a seismic shift in spin coming out of the BDA camp. In the past, that reponse would have looked more like "HD DVD users will be fortunate that by the time this is resolved, they will be able to 'upgrade' to a Bd capable device relatively painlesslessly- because by then Bd drives will be ubiquitous and just as affordable as the HD DVD devices are now"
see how that works?
Instead, he posits that the war might not work out in their favor and
it doesn't mean as much as all that. PlayStation 3 will still go on playing games. It would have to have a different disk drive. And that's about it really.
What this means is a HUGE HONKING ACKNOWLEDGEMENT that Blu-ray is NOT intrinsic to future incarnations of the PS3. In other words, they will not let the PS3 (or PS4 more likely) be tied to Blu-ray should Blu-ray be determined to be holding the PS3 back.
Is blu-ray intrinsic to the PS platform? Could most Blu-ray games fit on an HD DVD? would Blu-ray games cost far less to produce on a HD DVD disc?
Sadly, I think most Bd fans already know the answer to that.

second answer;

Well... we've been selling them as fast as we're making them because the brand -- first of all, we're not the only ones selling them at that price. So is Panasonic, so is Samsung, so is Sharp. And one of the reasons it's more expensive is because it does more. The bandwidth is greater. If you just want a two-hour movie, the Toshiba version is a high definition picture. But we thought that to drive high definition into the customer's imagination, you should future-proof the disks so that you could have director's cuts, which are fairly obvious. We have six to seven hours of bandwidth available. You can have interactivity in three dimensions.
Obviously it's Stringer trying to inject Humour- as Bd players (the Panasonics, Samsungs, and Sharps he mentions) have been behind the next gen capabilities of every single HD DVD player for well over a year...and are just trickling out now, with software to take advantage of it still waiting down the line.
Hell, even their own Bd player (which I own) doesn't decode Next gen audio.
Laughable.

Answer 3:
No, because -- look, I can sell it for a dollar. I'd lose a lot of money, but if you want to go that route, it's a tough competition, and it seems to be about a lot of things, including face. So if you want to cut the price down and engage us in a price war, that's a different system. We were trying to win on the merits, which we were doing for a while until Paramount changed sides.
Yeah uh merits...sure, right.
Earlier he dropped this little nugget
"Oddly, the studios kind of liked it for a while. They were able to leverage one of us against each other."
Obviously he is talking , at the least, about Warner and Paramount- and most likely Fox too.
In the case of the former, the leverage likely resulted in finangling a deal in terms of royalty waivers and production subsidies, and in the case of Fox it was the added DRM protection of BD+...something that I'm sure wasn't free to either develop or implement.
It's not like Warner is puvblishing on Blu-ray because of increased bandwidth or an extra 20gb of space.
Merits- please spare me.

and then there is Bill Hunts summation- "see folks, nothing to see here. Everything is A-OK! Bd Support remains unabated (Those latest Fox cancellations are actually a positive thing, don't worry about 'em). Everything is hunky dory in B-dville"

If anything, that fuller transcript makes me want to start a death watch for the format. The gist of all that is "we at Sony are not pining our hopes and fortunes on Blu-ray...if it sticks with the public it sticks, if it doesn't we'll adapt to what has" Great motivating words for everyone this Christmas season contemplating a $400 stand alone, or bulking up their Bd library with several hundred dollars of software.
Thank goodness most of it is bought in BOGO sales.

Last edited by Paul_SD; 11-12-07 at 11:42 PM.
Old 11-12-07, 11:24 PM
  #146  
DVD Talk Hero
 
PopcornTreeCt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 25,913
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Interesting, how much of an issue Paramount was to the war. I guess they figured Transformers would give them a huge lead over HD-DVD.
Old 11-12-07, 11:35 PM
  #147  
DVD Talk Hero
 
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 39,456
Received 656 Likes on 506 Posts
Perhaps it would have. Could Sony have been planning BD-exclusive features for Transformers or use the extra bandwith/disc space to include a DD TrueHD or PCM track to entice dual format supporters? As it stands now, we'll never know.
Old 11-12-07, 11:46 PM
  #148  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,702
Received 661 Likes on 458 Posts
Originally Posted by Paul_SD
What this means is a HUGE HONKING ACKNOWLEDGEMENT that Blu-ray is NOT intrinsic to future incarnations of the PS3. In other words, they will not let the PS3 (or PS4 more likely) be tied to Blu-ray should Blu-ray be determined to be holding the PS3 back.
I don't see this at all. There is nothing in that statement that says that Sony would drop Blu-Ray support from the PS3. All he said is that if HD DVD won the video content war, that the PS3 drive would change, likely to include HD DVD capabilities as well as Blu-Ray. I mean, at this point they have the majority of the work done for BD on PS3, so why drop it? At worst, they could just leave BD on PS3 at Profile 1.0 and add HD DVD support.

would Blu-ray games cost far less to produce on a HD DVD disc?
I don't think the game would cost "far less" to produce on an HD DVD disc over BD. The difference in cost on the discs is around $1, if that.

Bd players (the Panasonics, Samsungs, and Sharps he mentions) have been behind the next gen capabilities of every single HD DVD player for well over a year...and are just trickling out now, with software to take advantage of it still waiting down the line.
Hell, even there own Bd player (which I own) doesn't decode Next gen audio.
There already is software that takes advantage of some parts of the BD spec that certain players can't handle. And I think the Stringer was talking about the spec of the format, which in it's finalized state is certainly more versatile than HD DVD, while completely glossing over the fact that no machine has reached the finalized state of the spec. So the spec may be future proof, but the current players certainly aren't. Also, Stringer doesn't mention audio codecs at all, and the PS2 never decoded even DTS.

Well, what would that leverage have been? Royalty breaks? Subsidies? What else could possibly be of value to either Warner or Parmount to induce them to publish on a more expensive platform that they were originally disinclined to?
Merits- please spare me.
The "merits" bit was focused on the consumer market, with one of the merits obviously being larger studio support. The earlier question you merged in with that bit concerns the leverage the studios tried to assert. As to what leverage this could've been, it easily could've been the increased security that Fox and other studios requested, as Stringer points out.
Old 11-12-07, 11:55 PM
  #149  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,702
Received 661 Likes on 458 Posts
Originally Posted by Drexl
I would agree with this, but they may gradually phase out DVDs over the course of several years so that eventually everyone will have to buy in or do without. I'm sure there are people that would still buy VHS tapes if they could.
Studios will continue to put out product on a format as long as it makes sense to do so. You mention VHS, but VHS was never a huger buyer market to begin with, and the majority of regular buyers absconded to DVD fairly rapidly. I was working in retail when the last pre-recorded VHS tapes were being released, and they just sat on the shelves. The only ones that moved with any noticeable speed were kids' tapes, and even those sales paled in comparison to the DVD releases. Trust me when I say that the studios dropped VHS because it was no longer profitable, not because they were trying to "force" people into DVD.

Same thing with pay phones. They are getting pulled out of places not because of some dastardly scheme to force people to get cell phones, but because the ubiquity of cell phones means that not very many people use them anymore. Add in the cost of regular upkeep and vandalism, and most pay phones just aren't worth keeping around, not with the phone charge at any reasonable rate that people would actually use anyway.
Old 11-13-07, 12:22 AM
  #150  
DVD Talk Gold Edition
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,394
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
There can't be any versions of the PS3 without a bluray drive for the simple fact that all older games would not work anymore. This is the same reason why XBOX 360 does not release games on HD-DVD.

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.