Sony CEO Sees 'Stalemate' in Disc Fight
11-10-07, 03:27 PM
#126
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Originally Posted by dharding
You can now buy a PS3 and an HD-A3 for $499 TOTAL
How do I do that NOW? Isn't the PS3 $399 and the A3 $299 for a total of $699.98? There's a known upcoming $169 sale for the A3 but on a given day until then, is it under $299? And isn't is 1080i? The theoretical unified format player could have great secret and BF sales too.
11-10-07, 04:10 PM
#127
DVD Talk Legend
Originally Posted by pricdews
How do I do that NOW? Isn't the PS3 $399 and the A3 $299 for a total of $699.98? There's a known upcoming $169 sale for the A3 but on a given day until then, is it under $299? And isn't is 1080i? The theoretical unified format player could have great secret and BF sales too.
Some recent news on it:
http://www.electronichouse.com/artic...player_better/
http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/34532/97/
The site OnSale has more specs, and currently has it on sale:
http://www.onsale.com/shop/detail~dp...~220.0000.aspx
With a sale price of $779.99, it is still more than buying the cheaper players of both formats at their regular price. However, the advanced features plus the ability to play both formats on one player may help offset the extra $80. It's due out early/mid December though, so no Black Friday sales.
11-10-07, 06:53 PM
#128
DVD Talk Legend
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by pro-bassoonist
...and...
Here's what I have to say, dealing with reality:
If you support both formats then de facto you endorse the current market division. Which according to the second sentence of the first quote you are content with.
If you however are criticizing the failure of the dual market pointing it is, let's use your description, fucked up I don't understand why you support its existence to begin with.
Pro-B
Here's what I have to say, dealing with reality:
If you support both formats then de facto you endorse the current market division. Which according to the second sentence of the first quote you are content with.
If you however are criticizing the failure of the dual market pointing it is, let's use your description, fucked up I don't understand why you support its existence to begin with.
Pro-B
11-10-07, 07:10 PM
#129
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Pro-Bassoonist does have a good point though. If you want to be format neutral and get both, that's perfectly fine. But then don't go on and complain about a format war. It shouldn't really matter to you anyway, since, as it's been mentioned, you're covered.
11-10-07, 08:17 PM
#130
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
as far as I'm concerned- if you support one format only- that makes you a format cheerleader first, and an HD fan/enthusiast second. Everything you say will be filtered thru the perception of inherent bias. It doesn't matter if you strongly believe something and can find relevant quotes to back it up- your format allegiance colors how you percieve and process any given situation/comment/scrap of news.
Bill Hunt is the perfect example of this.
He went off on a 500 word rant denouncing the $98 player sale at Wal-mart, why its bad for the consumer, why it heralds the downfall of the format, etc, etc- but the relatively underwhelming sales of S-m3 (relative to Bd capable player ownership) or the latest (of many) cancellations of Fox/MGM titles get dismissed with an off hand aside.
when you go format independant, you can see BS from either side for what it is.
You can't afford to do that when you're a cheerleader for only one team.
Bill Hunt is the perfect example of this.
He went off on a 500 word rant denouncing the $98 player sale at Wal-mart, why its bad for the consumer, why it heralds the downfall of the format, etc, etc- but the relatively underwhelming sales of S-m3 (relative to Bd capable player ownership) or the latest (of many) cancellations of Fox/MGM titles get dismissed with an off hand aside.
when you go format independant, you can see BS from either side for what it is.
You can't afford to do that when you're a cheerleader for only one team.
11-10-07, 08:23 PM
#131
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Originally Posted by Paul_SD
as far as I'm concerned- if you support one format only- that makes you a format cheerleader first, and an HD fan/enthusiast second.
It's the partisanship that I think is unhealthy, poisoning both forums like this and the mental well-being of otherwise rational people.
I think there have been enormous advantages to both formats coming to market, and there's no doubt whatsoever in my mind that we're far better off for it. I'm an early adopter because I want instant gratification, and that's why I own both formats -- if there's content out there that I want and is accessible, there's no reason for me not to indulge. I don't support HD DVD. I don't support Blu-ray. I support HD media.
11-10-07, 08:31 PM
#132
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Perhaps someone needs to define “support.” Just because one is a film enthusiast and has chosen to purchase both Blu-ray and HD-DVD movies does not necessarily mean that person approves of how the industry has handled the HD media situation.
11-10-07, 08:59 PM
#133
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I have the cash in hand to buy a Blu Ray. I've talked about buying a Pioneer Elite. But I keep hearing about 1.0, 1.1, 2.0 - I dont want to buy something that might not play next years discs.
Anyway I went and added a bunch at deep discount and found maybe only 6 -7 Blu Ray exclusives I was interested in.
Anyway I went and added a bunch at deep discount and found maybe only 6 -7 Blu Ray exclusives I was interested in.
11-10-07, 09:21 PM
#134
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
I probably should have clarified something I wrote in that last post.
Anything a one format owner says or hears, is bound to be filtered by the listener thru a perception of inherent bias.
I noticed this in earlier dialouge between Pro-B and myself and between him and others.
Though I own both, I admit that I am biased towards HD DVD for a number of what I think are practical reasons. However, being format independant, I no longer feel I have to soft peddle my grievences, while at the same time continuing to slam the other side for every mis-step.
Honestly- going format independant almost instantly elevates you above all the noise and clatter and stinkiness of the partisans below. It is refreshing.
And I find it sad that there are people who can't appreciate that.
If one side isn't aerodynamic enough to soar on its own unassisted, then maybe it deserves to be grounded? Instead of trying to tell everyone else to get off the runway and stop trying to take flight.
Anything a one format owner says or hears, is bound to be filtered by the listener thru a perception of inherent bias.
I noticed this in earlier dialouge between Pro-B and myself and between him and others.
Though I own both, I admit that I am biased towards HD DVD for a number of what I think are practical reasons. However, being format independant, I no longer feel I have to soft peddle my grievences, while at the same time continuing to slam the other side for every mis-step.
Honestly- going format independant almost instantly elevates you above all the noise and clatter and stinkiness of the partisans below. It is refreshing.
And I find it sad that there are people who can't appreciate that.
If one side isn't aerodynamic enough to soar on its own unassisted, then maybe it deserves to be grounded? Instead of trying to tell everyone else to get off the runway and stop trying to take flight.
Last edited by Paul_SD; 11-10-07 at 09:26 PM.
11-10-07, 09:50 PM
#135
DVD Talk Gold Edition
Originally Posted by Paul_SD
I probably should have clarified something I wrote in that last post.
Anything a one format owner says or hears, is bound to be filtered by the listener thru a perception of inherent bias.
Anything a one format owner says or hears, is bound to be filtered by the listener thru a perception of inherent bias.
If one side isn't aerodynamic enough to soar on its own unassisted, then maybe it deserves to be grounded? Instead of trying to tell everyone else to get off the runway and stop trying to take flight.
11-10-07, 10:05 PM
#136
DVD Talk Legend
Originally Posted by Paul_SD
as far as I'm concerned- if you support one format only- that makes you a format cheerleader first, and an HD fan/enthusiast second. Everything you say will be filtered thru the perception of inherent bias.
There was bias for/against the formats before they were even released, and thus before anyone could support only one format. And simply owning a format doesn't mean you can't be aware of its flaws. As an HD DVD owner, I can still see that there are a lot of obstacles for the format before it could "win" the format war, if it ever does. And while others here have in the past accused me of BD bias, I've been well aware of its faults since the beginning. The two main ones, the higher price and the lack of finalized spec support on most players, are what have kept me from buying into that format.
Like Adam said, it's partisanship, and really blind partisanship, that's the problem. It's okay to "support" only one format, but that doesn't mean that one has to always paint the competitor unfavorably, while pretending that everything is hunky-dory with the format one owns. I imagine all of us here were/are DVD "supporters," but that never stopped people here from heaping a healthy dose of criticism regarding the development of that format and it's market.
11-10-07, 10:11 PM
#137
DVD Talk Hero
Originally Posted by pricdews
How do I do that NOW? Isn't the PS3 $399 and the A3 $299 for a total of $699.98? There's a known upcoming $169 sale for the A3 but on a given day until then, is it under $299? And isn't is 1080i? The theoretical unified format player could have great secret and BF sales too.
Both players are 1080i, but I won't get into it.
11-10-07, 10:58 PM
#139
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Originally Posted by GizmoDVD
If you had a time machine and could back to last week, you can have done that. There were numerous threads devoted to the A2 being $99 at Wal-Mart and Best Buy several days before hand. The A3 was at the same time also $199.
Both players are 1080i, but I won't get into it.
Both players are 1080i, but I won't get into it.
#2) It was confirmed 1 day beforehand with no guarantee that it'd be in stock if sold out early (don't think there were rainchecks).
I ultimately decided to hold of for BF sales to get a 1080p player. I sort of regret it now. I think it's a stretch to claim there's a $99 (or even $199) player on the market NOW. For all the buzz that may reach the broader public, those who missed the deal don't necessarily have such a cheap option "now".
Getting back to the original quote, it sounds to me like Sony has accepted that HD-DVD has gained a strong enough foothold to stick around for a while (at the least) and there's no anticipation of events in the next few months deciding the format war. It also seems to indicate that Sony doesn't plan any major counter to the recent moves by Toshiba. Anything more read into the comments is speculation IMO.
Saying he wished there was one format is one thing. Saying how he would have maneuvered to make it one format is another. I think this is now shaping up as a battle about who can afford to keep to losing money for the next couple of years. I still believe that 2 formats persisting means that both sides lose (though agree it's debatable).
11-12-07, 07:06 PM
#140
DVD Talk Limited Edition
There are 100s of titles available on just HD-DVD. I only want to watch 20% of them, and I'd need 10x more free time than I have to even watch those.
I paid $200 dollars for an HD-DVD player 6 months ago. I've watched some great films - watched Robin Hood with the family last weekend. Great experience.
I don't care about the format war and I don't care if both formats remain niche. I'm enjoying great films in incredible picture quality for very little money. That's good enough for me.
I paid $200 dollars for an HD-DVD player 6 months ago. I've watched some great films - watched Robin Hood with the family last weekend. Great experience.
I don't care about the format war and I don't care if both formats remain niche. I'm enjoying great films in incredible picture quality for very little money. That's good enough for me.
11-12-07, 09:39 PM
#141
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Interview Script
Via the Digital Bits:
http://www.thedigitalbits.com/#mytwocents
The deal is this: Howard Stringer was being interviewed by Business Week's Steven J. Adler about his career at the 92nd Street Y in NYC on Thursday. He was asked a few questions about Blu-ray Disc and the format war, and he spoke about it for maybe 5 minutes out of a 90 minute interview. Here's the actual text of the relevant portion of the interview:
---begin excerpt---
Adler: Of course, one of the big fights right now is Blu-ray vs. HD-DVD for the high definition video market. I mean, the first and most obvious question is: Shouldn't there just be one format? Why should people have to choose between the two? And is there any possibility that we'll be heading there?
Stringer: I should point out that that is not part of the software battle. I mean, that's actually in some ways sort of anachronistic. We're fighting over a packaged goods hardware that will not go on forever, from a classic sense. We have a more expensive version, as Sony tends to, and Toshiba has a cheaper version, which seems to keep getting cheaper. I believe it has slowed down the progress of high definition packaged goods. Oddly, the studios kind of liked it for a while. They were able to leverage one of us against each other. But in the end, it's counterproductive. We have a sort of stalemate at the moment. As you know, they had fewer studios, but then they paid a lot of money for Paramount. So we have four studios and they have two or three studios. It's a difficult... it's a difficult fight. There was a chance to integrate it before I became CEO. This is something I inherited. And I don't know what broke down. I wish I could go back there, because I heard it was all about saving face and losing face, and all the rest of it. But it's not a battle about the digital future. That's what's so strange about it. If it doesn't work out, that doesn't say very much about where we're all going. It's just... it's a scorecard: one-nothing or something. But it doesn't mean as much as all that. PlayStation 3 will still go on playing games. It would have to have a different disk drive. And that's about it really.
Adler: So when a consumer now has to choose between the two, if they want to get into the high definition video, Wal-Mart was selling the Toshiba HD-DVD for $99 last Friday for a couple of days. Usually, it's been $199 there. I think your list price is $499 for Blu-ray. That's an enormously big difference, particularly in a slowing economy. Can you play that game with the difference being that great?
Stringer: Well... we've been selling them as fast as we're making them because the brand -- first of all, we're not the only ones selling them at that price. So is Panasonic, so is Samsung, so is Sharp. And one of the reasons it's more expensive is because it does more. The bandwidth is greater. If you just want a two-hour movie, the Toshiba version is a high definition picture. But we thought that to drive high definition into the customer's imagination, you should future-proof the disks so that you could have director's cuts, which are fairly obvious. We have six to seven hours of bandwidth available. You can have interactivity in three dimensions. We would be prepared to allow the package goods to survive much longer by making it much more innovative. But that does make the player more expensive. Now, they all come down. The race is to bring costs down. It always is in consumer electronics. So it isn't going to stay at $499.
Adler: But are you surprised by how little Toshiba can sell its unit for?
Stringer: No, because -- look, I can sell it for a dollar. I'd lose a lot of money, but if you want to go that route, it's a tough competition, and it seems to be about a lot of things, including face. So if you want to cut the price down and engage us in a price war, that's a different system. We were trying to win on the merits, which we were doing for a while until Paramount changed sides.
Adler: Microsoft seems to have an interesting role in this. They're selling add-on HD-DVD drives for the -- they're taking HD-DVD to the Xbox, and Xbox competes strongly with you. Is Microsoft kind of working in cahoots or in alliance with Toshiba on HD-DVD? Is that a competitive challenge to you?
Stringer: Only the spirits know. [laughs] Yeah... you never know with Microsoft do you? You never know. Xbox versus PS3 is sort of a subplot. What Microsoft's role is in that? I don't know. We're still selling software at a faster level than Toshiba. Obviously, we care about the software side more than the Toshiba does. It doesn't have a studio. It doesn't own a studio. So it's in our interest to -- actually the most significant thing in some ways about Blu-ray, going back to Microsoft... the Blu-ray Disc has a very high security level, which Fox in particular, but also other studios, was most excited about -- wanted to have some protection from instant ripping. So the specs that went into the Blu-ray, which were done in conjunction with many studios, had this security level. That is probably not in Microsoft's interests. The Toshiba disk is certainly far easier to rip. Whether you like that or don't like that depends on your consumer enthusiasm.
---end of excerpt---
That was the extent of it. Naturally, the one comment out of the entire 90 minutes (or even this small portion) that the AP ran with is the stalemate bit. Since then, it's been spun like crazy. We've seen commentary from people who weren't there proclaiming what a "remarkable admission" it is. Some have even gone so far as to claim that Stringer declared Blu-ray a failure and that Sony is about to give up the battle. All of which mischaracterizes what he actually said and meant.
Hey... this kind of thing happens, especially when people let their passions over this stuff get the better of them. We've even occasionally made the mistake of jumping to conclusions in the past ourselves. But here are the facts: Sony and the rest of the BD camp's commitment to Blu-ray Disc hasn't wavered in the slightest, and from everything they've ever told me both on and off the record, that isn't likely to change anytime soon. And while we're at it, Warner supports BOTH HD-DVD and Blu-ray Disc, and from everything they've ever told me both on and off the record, that isn't likely to change anytime soon either. So everybody can relax and take a deep breath. If you're a Blu-ray fan, enjoy all the great Blu-ray titles coming out now. If you're an HD-DVD fan, same thing.
It's just another day in this silly format war, which at this point has been taken to unfortunate extremes by some. As we said last week, it's worth keeping in mind that no kittens will be harmed in this thing, whatever the outcome.
Ciao,
Pro-B
http://www.thedigitalbits.com/#mytwocents
The deal is this: Howard Stringer was being interviewed by Business Week's Steven J. Adler about his career at the 92nd Street Y in NYC on Thursday. He was asked a few questions about Blu-ray Disc and the format war, and he spoke about it for maybe 5 minutes out of a 90 minute interview. Here's the actual text of the relevant portion of the interview:
---begin excerpt---
Adler: Of course, one of the big fights right now is Blu-ray vs. HD-DVD for the high definition video market. I mean, the first and most obvious question is: Shouldn't there just be one format? Why should people have to choose between the two? And is there any possibility that we'll be heading there?
Stringer: I should point out that that is not part of the software battle. I mean, that's actually in some ways sort of anachronistic. We're fighting over a packaged goods hardware that will not go on forever, from a classic sense. We have a more expensive version, as Sony tends to, and Toshiba has a cheaper version, which seems to keep getting cheaper. I believe it has slowed down the progress of high definition packaged goods. Oddly, the studios kind of liked it for a while. They were able to leverage one of us against each other. But in the end, it's counterproductive. We have a sort of stalemate at the moment. As you know, they had fewer studios, but then they paid a lot of money for Paramount. So we have four studios and they have two or three studios. It's a difficult... it's a difficult fight. There was a chance to integrate it before I became CEO. This is something I inherited. And I don't know what broke down. I wish I could go back there, because I heard it was all about saving face and losing face, and all the rest of it. But it's not a battle about the digital future. That's what's so strange about it. If it doesn't work out, that doesn't say very much about where we're all going. It's just... it's a scorecard: one-nothing or something. But it doesn't mean as much as all that. PlayStation 3 will still go on playing games. It would have to have a different disk drive. And that's about it really.
Adler: So when a consumer now has to choose between the two, if they want to get into the high definition video, Wal-Mart was selling the Toshiba HD-DVD for $99 last Friday for a couple of days. Usually, it's been $199 there. I think your list price is $499 for Blu-ray. That's an enormously big difference, particularly in a slowing economy. Can you play that game with the difference being that great?
Stringer: Well... we've been selling them as fast as we're making them because the brand -- first of all, we're not the only ones selling them at that price. So is Panasonic, so is Samsung, so is Sharp. And one of the reasons it's more expensive is because it does more. The bandwidth is greater. If you just want a two-hour movie, the Toshiba version is a high definition picture. But we thought that to drive high definition into the customer's imagination, you should future-proof the disks so that you could have director's cuts, which are fairly obvious. We have six to seven hours of bandwidth available. You can have interactivity in three dimensions. We would be prepared to allow the package goods to survive much longer by making it much more innovative. But that does make the player more expensive. Now, they all come down. The race is to bring costs down. It always is in consumer electronics. So it isn't going to stay at $499.
Adler: But are you surprised by how little Toshiba can sell its unit for?
Stringer: No, because -- look, I can sell it for a dollar. I'd lose a lot of money, but if you want to go that route, it's a tough competition, and it seems to be about a lot of things, including face. So if you want to cut the price down and engage us in a price war, that's a different system. We were trying to win on the merits, which we were doing for a while until Paramount changed sides.
Adler: Microsoft seems to have an interesting role in this. They're selling add-on HD-DVD drives for the -- they're taking HD-DVD to the Xbox, and Xbox competes strongly with you. Is Microsoft kind of working in cahoots or in alliance with Toshiba on HD-DVD? Is that a competitive challenge to you?
Stringer: Only the spirits know. [laughs] Yeah... you never know with Microsoft do you? You never know. Xbox versus PS3 is sort of a subplot. What Microsoft's role is in that? I don't know. We're still selling software at a faster level than Toshiba. Obviously, we care about the software side more than the Toshiba does. It doesn't have a studio. It doesn't own a studio. So it's in our interest to -- actually the most significant thing in some ways about Blu-ray, going back to Microsoft... the Blu-ray Disc has a very high security level, which Fox in particular, but also other studios, was most excited about -- wanted to have some protection from instant ripping. So the specs that went into the Blu-ray, which were done in conjunction with many studios, had this security level. That is probably not in Microsoft's interests. The Toshiba disk is certainly far easier to rip. Whether you like that or don't like that depends on your consumer enthusiasm.
---end of excerpt---
Hey... this kind of thing happens, especially when people let their passions over this stuff get the better of them. We've even occasionally made the mistake of jumping to conclusions in the past ourselves. But here are the facts: Sony and the rest of the BD camp's commitment to Blu-ray Disc hasn't wavered in the slightest, and from everything they've ever told me both on and off the record, that isn't likely to change anytime soon. And while we're at it, Warner supports BOTH HD-DVD and Blu-ray Disc, and from everything they've ever told me both on and off the record, that isn't likely to change anytime soon either. So everybody can relax and take a deep breath. If you're a Blu-ray fan, enjoy all the great Blu-ray titles coming out now. If you're an HD-DVD fan, same thing.
It's just another day in this silly format war, which at this point has been taken to unfortunate extremes by some. As we said last week, it's worth keeping in mind that no kittens will be harmed in this thing, whatever the outcome.
Ciao,
Pro-B
11-12-07, 10:09 PM
#143
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Originally Posted by pricdews
You're right that there are few clear cut downsides to having to deal with 2 formats. Some are small nuisances.
Likely
1. Slower transition of general public to HD formats. Many are sitting out waiting for an end to the format war (even if there is no "need" to wait). If HD formats remain secondary to DVD, some titles may not be released in HD that othwerise might have been.
...
So there might not be that much clear cut downside to having 2 formats. I think the problem is with perception. It just seems wasteful and inefficient. It confuses the public...
Likely
1. Slower transition of general public to HD formats. Many are sitting out waiting for an end to the format war (even if there is no "need" to wait). If HD formats remain secondary to DVD, some titles may not be released in HD that othwerise might have been.
...
So there might not be that much clear cut downside to having 2 formats. I think the problem is with perception. It just seems wasteful and inefficient. It confuses the public...
The general public is NEVER going to transition to the HD formats. It's simply not going to happen. You'd be lucky to see this happen in the next decade no matter what the price of the players.
This is a niche and will stay a niche. I think you could have $100 one-format players and it would still be a niche (albeit, a much bigger niche than now). HDTV penetration, as well as people who give a rat's ass about PQ, is minimal.
People would continue to buy $6 catalog titles on DVD and $15 new releases on DVD even if they were using a cheap single format player. Because DVDs can be played on their kid's portable DVD player and on computers and at school and at their friend's house and on vacation and wherever and they are substantially cheaper.
The future is combo players for those of is in the niche, just like the DVD +/- R 'war'. People insisted there could be no winner, but once you had drives that were cheap enough and everything but the oldest of old DVD players that played both, no one really cared much whether you were popping in a + or a -.
The only thing I could see convincing the general public to switch to HD formats would be, MAYBE, would be cheaper or equal prices to DVDs. And why would the studios bother with that?
Last edited by GreenMonkey; 11-12-07 at 10:12 PM.
11-12-07, 10:32 PM
#144
DVD Talk Legend
Originally Posted by GreenMonkey
Polls have shown that the 'war' is way down the list of reasons people don't buy into HD or BD. There is just simple apathy, don't want to pay more, DVD good enough, etc. Hell a lot of them think DVDs are hi-def, or that they are watching Hi-def over coax cable.
The general public is NEVER going to transition to the HD formats. It's simply not going to happen. You'd be lucky to see this happen in the next decade no matter what the price of the players.
This is a niche and will stay a niche. I think you could have $100 one-format players and it would still be a niche (albeit, a much bigger niche than now). HDTV penetration, as well as people who give a rat's ass about PQ, is minimal.
People would continue to buy $6 catalog titles on DVD and $15 new releases on DVD even if they were using a cheap single format player. Because DVDs can be played on their kid's portable DVD player and on computers and at school and at their friend's house and on vacation and wherever and they are substantially cheaper.
The future is combo players for those of is in the niche, just like the DVD +/- R 'war'. People insisted there could be no winner, but once you had drives that were cheap enough and everything but the oldest of old DVD players that played both, no one really cared much whether you were popping in a + or a -.
The only thing I could see convincing the general public to switch to HD formats would be, MAYBE, would be cheaper or equal prices to DVDs. And why would the studios bother with that?
The general public is NEVER going to transition to the HD formats. It's simply not going to happen. You'd be lucky to see this happen in the next decade no matter what the price of the players.
This is a niche and will stay a niche. I think you could have $100 one-format players and it would still be a niche (albeit, a much bigger niche than now). HDTV penetration, as well as people who give a rat's ass about PQ, is minimal.
People would continue to buy $6 catalog titles on DVD and $15 new releases on DVD even if they were using a cheap single format player. Because DVDs can be played on their kid's portable DVD player and on computers and at school and at their friend's house and on vacation and wherever and they are substantially cheaper.
The future is combo players for those of is in the niche, just like the DVD +/- R 'war'. People insisted there could be no winner, but once you had drives that were cheap enough and everything but the oldest of old DVD players that played both, no one really cared much whether you were popping in a + or a -.
The only thing I could see convincing the general public to switch to HD formats would be, MAYBE, would be cheaper or equal prices to DVDs. And why would the studios bother with that?
That's how I see myself with "owned" (not rental) downloads; I'll be one of the holdouts.
11-12-07, 10:50 PM
#145
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
Pro-B thanks for posting that.
a few comments
1) in the first answer Stringer gives, it is still very surprising that he is illustrating the (potential) outcome in the negative for Bd and Sony. Sorry Bill, but this IS a seismic shift in spin coming out of the BDA camp. In the past, that reponse would have looked more like "HD DVD users will be fortunate that by the time this is resolved, they will be able to 'upgrade' to a Bd capable device relatively painlesslessly- because by then Bd drives will be ubiquitous and just as affordable as the HD DVD devices are now"
see how that works?
Instead, he posits that the war might not work out in their favor and
What this means is a HUGE HONKING ACKNOWLEDGEMENT that Blu-ray is NOT intrinsic to future incarnations of the PS3. In other words, they will not let the PS3 (or PS4 more likely) be tied to Blu-ray should Blu-ray be determined to be holding the PS3 back.
Is blu-ray intrinsic to the PS platform? Could most Blu-ray games fit on an HD DVD? would Blu-ray games cost far less to produce on a HD DVD disc?
Sadly, I think most Bd fans already know the answer to that.
second answer;
Obviously it's Stringer trying to inject Humour- as Bd players (the Panasonics, Samsungs, and Sharps he mentions) have been behind the next gen capabilities of every single HD DVD player for well over a year...and are just trickling out now, with software to take advantage of it still waiting down the line.
Hell, even their own Bd player (which I own) doesn't decode Next gen audio.
Laughable.
Answer 3:
Yeah uh merits...sure, right.
Earlier he dropped this little nugget
Obviously he is talking , at the least, about Warner and Paramount- and most likely Fox too.
In the case of the former, the leverage likely resulted in finangling a deal in terms of royalty waivers and production subsidies, and in the case of Fox it was the added DRM protection of BD+...something that I'm sure wasn't free to either develop or implement.
It's not like Warner is puvblishing on Blu-ray because of increased bandwidth or an extra 20gb of space.
Merits- please spare me.
and then there is Bill Hunts summation- "see folks, nothing to see here. Everything is A-OK! Bd Support remains unabated (Those latest Fox cancellations are actually a positive thing, don't worry about 'em). Everything is hunky dory in B-dville"
If anything, that fuller transcript makes me want to start a death watch for the format. The gist of all that is "we at Sony are not pining our hopes and fortunes on Blu-ray...if it sticks with the public it sticks, if it doesn't we'll adapt to what has" Great motivating words for everyone this Christmas season contemplating a $400 stand alone, or bulking up their Bd library with several hundred dollars of software.
Thank goodness most of it is bought in BOGO sales.
a few comments
1) in the first answer Stringer gives, it is still very surprising that he is illustrating the (potential) outcome in the negative for Bd and Sony. Sorry Bill, but this IS a seismic shift in spin coming out of the BDA camp. In the past, that reponse would have looked more like "HD DVD users will be fortunate that by the time this is resolved, they will be able to 'upgrade' to a Bd capable device relatively painlesslessly- because by then Bd drives will be ubiquitous and just as affordable as the HD DVD devices are now"
see how that works?
Instead, he posits that the war might not work out in their favor and
it doesn't mean as much as all that. PlayStation 3 will still go on playing games. It would have to have a different disk drive. And that's about it really.
Is blu-ray intrinsic to the PS platform? Could most Blu-ray games fit on an HD DVD? would Blu-ray games cost far less to produce on a HD DVD disc?
Sadly, I think most Bd fans already know the answer to that.
second answer;
Well... we've been selling them as fast as we're making them because the brand -- first of all, we're not the only ones selling them at that price. So is Panasonic, so is Samsung, so is Sharp. And one of the reasons it's more expensive is because it does more. The bandwidth is greater. If you just want a two-hour movie, the Toshiba version is a high definition picture. But we thought that to drive high definition into the customer's imagination, you should future-proof the disks so that you could have director's cuts, which are fairly obvious. We have six to seven hours of bandwidth available. You can have interactivity in three dimensions.
Hell, even their own Bd player (which I own) doesn't decode Next gen audio.
Laughable.
Answer 3:
No, because -- look, I can sell it for a dollar. I'd lose a lot of money, but if you want to go that route, it's a tough competition, and it seems to be about a lot of things, including face. So if you want to cut the price down and engage us in a price war, that's a different system. We were trying to win on the merits, which we were doing for a while until Paramount changed sides.
Earlier he dropped this little nugget
"Oddly, the studios kind of liked it for a while. They were able to leverage one of us against each other."
In the case of the former, the leverage likely resulted in finangling a deal in terms of royalty waivers and production subsidies, and in the case of Fox it was the added DRM protection of BD+...something that I'm sure wasn't free to either develop or implement.
It's not like Warner is puvblishing on Blu-ray because of increased bandwidth or an extra 20gb of space.
Merits- please spare me.
and then there is Bill Hunts summation- "see folks, nothing to see here. Everything is A-OK! Bd Support remains unabated (Those latest Fox cancellations are actually a positive thing, don't worry about 'em). Everything is hunky dory in B-dville"
If anything, that fuller transcript makes me want to start a death watch for the format. The gist of all that is "we at Sony are not pining our hopes and fortunes on Blu-ray...if it sticks with the public it sticks, if it doesn't we'll adapt to what has" Great motivating words for everyone this Christmas season contemplating a $400 stand alone, or bulking up their Bd library with several hundred dollars of software.
Thank goodness most of it is bought in BOGO sales.
Last edited by Paul_SD; 11-12-07 at 11:42 PM.
11-12-07, 11:35 PM
#147
DVD Talk Hero
Perhaps it would have. Could Sony have been planning BD-exclusive features for Transformers or use the extra bandwith/disc space to include a DD TrueHD or PCM track to entice dual format supporters? As it stands now, we'll never know. 
11-12-07, 11:46 PM
#148
DVD Talk Legend
Originally Posted by Paul_SD
What this means is a HUGE HONKING ACKNOWLEDGEMENT that Blu-ray is NOT intrinsic to future incarnations of the PS3. In other words, they will not let the PS3 (or PS4 more likely) be tied to Blu-ray should Blu-ray be determined to be holding the PS3 back.
would Blu-ray games cost far less to produce on a HD DVD disc?
Bd players (the Panasonics, Samsungs, and Sharps he mentions) have been behind the next gen capabilities of every single HD DVD player for well over a year...and are just trickling out now, with software to take advantage of it still waiting down the line.
Hell, even there own Bd player (which I own) doesn't decode Next gen audio.
Hell, even there own Bd player (which I own) doesn't decode Next gen audio.
Well, what would that leverage have been? Royalty breaks? Subsidies? What else could possibly be of value to either Warner or Parmount to induce them to publish on a more expensive platform that they were originally disinclined to?
Merits- please spare me.
Merits- please spare me.
11-12-07, 11:55 PM
#149
DVD Talk Legend
Originally Posted by Drexl
I would agree with this, but they may gradually phase out DVDs over the course of several years so that eventually everyone will have to buy in or do without. I'm sure there are people that would still buy VHS tapes if they could.
Same thing with pay phones. They are getting pulled out of places not because of some dastardly scheme to force people to get cell phones, but because the ubiquity of cell phones means that not very many people use them anymore. Add in the cost of regular upkeep and vandalism, and most pay phones just aren't worth keeping around, not with the phone charge at any reasonable rate that people would actually use anyway.
11-13-07, 12:22 AM
#150
DVD Talk Gold Edition
There can't be any versions of the PS3 without a bluray drive for the simple fact that all older games would not work anymore. This is the same reason why XBOX 360 does not release games on HD-DVD.
