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Sony CEO Sees 'Stalemate' in Disc Fight

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Sony CEO Sees 'Stalemate' in Disc Fight

Old 11-09-07, 09:37 AM
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They probably meant optical drive, I doubt Sony would continue to publish games on Blu Ray if it Blu Ray become a game only media.
Old 11-09-07, 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by chanster
Here is some more quotes from Stringer:
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/...4f1036c8398c0e

Whats interesting here is that he acknowledges the PS3 could live without a Blu Ray drive...
Will never and can never happen. PS3 games are all Blu-ray discs.
Old 11-09-07, 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted by chanster
They probably meant optical drive, I doubt Sony would continue to publish games on Blu Ray if it Blu Ray become a game only media.
why not? plenty of other game machines have used proprietary media.
Old 11-09-07, 09:40 AM
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I would argue in modern gaming, propietary media formats for games has been a very poor decision..the trend has been moving towards mass media vehicles as a gaming technology..sure there are some notable exceptions,
Old 11-09-07, 09:49 AM
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Well both opinions have merit. Blu-Ray is great as game media given it's storage space. There's a whole lote of game that can be had there. On the other hand, if only one company uses the discs, production costs will barely go down.

In that case, they should only use Blu-Ray for games that require a whole lot of disc space and bandwidth. Of course, that could very well lead to phasing out Blu-Ray and see the return of multi-disc game releases. Neither is much of an option.
Old 11-09-07, 09:51 AM
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Don't most PS3 games need more space than dual-layer DVD can deliver?

If that were true, then they would have to use one of the next-gen disc formats for game delivery.

Essentially, for any PS3 game that needs more than ~9GB of space, Sony could either use a format they developed (Blu-Ray), or a rival's format (HD DVD or something else).

I think it's pretty obvious which one they would use.
Old 11-09-07, 09:55 AM
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Originally Posted by chanster
I would argue in modern gaming, propietary media formats for games has been a very poor decision..the trend has been moving towards mass media vehicles as a gaming technology..sure there are some notable exceptions,
changing the optical drive at this point in the PS3's lifecycle just doesn't seem like viable option to me, considering how many games are already out on BD. two versions of the hardware with only certain games playing on certain machines seems like more trouble than it's worth. if nothing else, i can see Sony allowing developers to press games on DVD to save on replication costs, but still leaving the Blu-ray drive in the PS3.
Old 11-09-07, 09:57 AM
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I'll hold off judgment on this until Pro-Bassoonist tells us what to think about the situation.
Old 11-09-07, 09:57 AM
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Blu-ray for games and HD DVD for movies -- it would be the best scenario for everyone, at least in my opinion. I know I would be able to buy a lot more movies.
Old 11-09-07, 09:59 AM
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Back on topic...

I don't really think this article means Sony is internally admitting overall defeat. They are admitting a defeat for the first time, it seems, as I'm sure they had no plans or expectations for their competition to be this strong at this point and this is an acknowledgment of the strength of their competition. However, I don't see them bowing out anytime soon and to come to that conclusion from this article is really reaching.

I also know from first-hand experience how much the print media can misconstrue information from a simple interview, so I always take things like this with a pretty big grain of salt.
Old 11-09-07, 09:59 AM
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versions of the hardware with only certain games playing on certain machines seems like more trouble than it's worth.
Anybody know how much space some of the current PS3 games are? I mean we know the capacity of Blu-Ray, what I don't know is the size of current PS3 games and if they could fit on a DVD ala the 360
Old 11-09-07, 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by chanster
Anybody know how much space some of the current PS3 games are? I mean we know the capacity of Blu-Ray, what I don't know is the size of current PS3 games and if they could fit on a DVD ala the 360
even if they could repress all of the existing games (and i doubt that considering some of the features on some of the games, though i don't know specific sizes), you'd still have all the existing BD copies floating around and you'd have the same situation, though it would be somewhat minimized.
Old 11-09-07, 10:02 AM
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Most developers claim around 20gb for the PS3 though some have been found to contain dummy data. PGR4 Developer Bizarre Creations commented the 9GB limit on the 360 prevented them from doing proper day/night cycles. Grand Theft Auto 4 developer Rock Star had more issues with the lack of HDD than anything.
Old 11-09-07, 10:08 AM
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Originally Posted by kefrank
even if they could repress all of the existing games (and i doubt that considering some of the features on some of the games, though i don't know specific sizes), you'd still have all the existing BD copies floating around and you'd have the same situation, though it would be somewhat minimized.
Well in the next 2 months, you are going to have 1.1 Blu Ray discs floating around that can't work properly in 1.0 players..these guys aren't actively working in the consumers' best interest.
Old 11-09-07, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by chanster
Well in the next 2 months, you are going to have 1.1 Blu Ray discs floating around that can't work properly in 1.0 players..these guys aren't actively working in the consumers' best interest.
that's a very different situation though and i don't think i really need to go into the specifics of how and why. the Blu-ray profile situation is a convoluted and frustrating to be sure, but it's not nearly as messy as having two hardware versions that have completely different optical drives and two versions of the same software release, some of which will never be playable at all in one version of the hardware. i just don't see that being a viable approach in any way. they would be better off scrapping the PS3 altogether and launching a PS4 with no PS3 BC.
Old 11-09-07, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by bookcase3
Blu-ray for games and HD DVD for movies -- it would be the best scenario for everyone, at least in my opinion. I know I would be able to buy a lot more movies.
From a consumer standpoint . That's been my view for quite some time. However, I don't know if this'd be all that viable from a corporate standpoint.
Old 11-09-07, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by kefrank
that's a very different situation though and i don't think i really need to go into the specifics of how and why. the Blu-ray profile situation is a convoluted and frustrating to be sure, but it's not nearly as messy as having two hardware versions that have completely different optical drives and two versions of the same software release, some of which will never be playable at all in one version of the hardware. i just don't see that being a viable approach in any way. they would be better off scrapping the PS3 altogether and launching a PS4 with no PS3 BC.
I apologize, I had more in my reply and I accidentally deleted it..I was going to say that I know the situations were different because, at the very least, movies will supposedly still play on 1.0 players..whereas games wouldn't play.
Old 11-09-07, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by chanster
I apologize, I had more in my reply and I accidentally deleted it..I was going to say that I know the situations were different because, at the very least, movies will supposedly still play on 1.0 players..whereas games wouldn't play.
no big deal. i think this argument is pretty much moot anyway. i shouldn't have continued to drag it out this long. truce!
Old 11-09-07, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by RocShemp
Well both opinions have merit. Blu-Ray is great as game media given it's storage space. There's a whole lote of game that can be had there. On the other hand, if only one company uses the discs, production costs will barely go down...
Even if true, the cost of a BD is only a tiny fraction of the price of a game. There is no reason that Sony won't continue to use BD in the PS3. They have likely sold enough machines that the cost of making the BD drive itself has already been reduced. So that wouldn't be a significant factor in continuing to include them with the PS3.


I don't get the statements by some that Sony has "lost" the format war. "Stalemate" means that both formats will continue to survive, with neither defeating the other. Stringer appears to be conceding that Blu-ray won't vanquish HD DVD, as was expected by many since before the launch of the formats. That is not the same thing as conceding defeat.

The notion that HD DVD is going to "win" because 90k players have sold in the past week puzzles me. Blu-ray supporters correctly point out that BDs have been outselling HD DVDs all year and that, counting the million+ PS3s, the number of BD capable players vastly exceeds the number of HD DVD players. HD DVD has a long way to go before catching up in number of players, if it ever does.

The reason that Sony can't cut their player prices is because the company can't undercut all of the other manufacturers, such as Panasonic, Samsung, Sharp, et. al. Since Toshiba has been pretty much going it alone, they can cut prices and absorb the loss to make sure their HD DVD format survives. A few months ago many were writing them off as already having been defeated by Blu-ray. Now it appears that we will have a dual formats for the foreseeable future, something that some of us have been predicting for a long time.

Perhaps the studios save Sony/Columbia, of course will eventually go format neutral. Perhaps not. Many of us will just go with both players or combo players. Others will just stick with upscaled SD DVD because it is "good enough". We'll just have to deal with it.

As has been pointed out by others numerous times, the upside of the format war is a drastic and rapid lowering of hardware prices, much better quality discs, and some downward pressure on disc prices (consider the recent Sony/Disney BOGOF sale). The downside is likely a slower acceptance of HDM formats. But that might be changing with very low player prices. Regardless, I'll happily take that tradeoff.

If one format does manage to defeat the other in the next year or two, please feel free to say "I told you so!"
Old 11-09-07, 11:22 AM
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I guess the "stalemate = loss" theory factors into what Sony did with its Playstation 3 launch to ensure Blu-Ray capability. Sony had the PS2 dominating and could have probably trounced Microsoft if it had gotten the PS3 to market at the same time as the XBOX 360.

As it was Blu-Ray delayed the PS3, Microsoft was able to capture a lot of the gaming market by releasing 2nd or 3rd generation games whereas Sony is sputtering to put 1st generation games. Not to metion that the Blu Ray drive was a big "cost" in the PS3 which caused PS3 prices to be pretty astronomical.

Sony intentionally took a hit on their gaming lead to dominate the HDM - not to be in a stalemate. So now Sony seems to be in a dogfight with Microsoft over gaming and movies, something that Stringer alluded too.

Last edited by chanster; 11-09-07 at 11:25 AM.
Old 11-09-07, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by kefrank
that's a very different situation though and i don't think i really need to go into the specifics of how and why. the Blu-ray profile situation is a convoluted and frustrating to be sure, but it's not nearly as messy as having two hardware versions that have completely different optical drives and two versions of the same software release, some of which will never be playable at all in one version of the hardware. i just don't see that being a viable approach in any way. they would be better off scrapping the PS3 altogether and launching a PS4 with no PS3 BC.
So what would the PS4 be other than just simply calling it a PS4? It would need to be more technologically advanced than simply changing its name. Going back to SDs is not an option considering the move forward in the video game realm. I think this would be a stupid idea. The Blu-Ray drive is just as functional as an HD-DVd drive despite the fact that it doesn't have "finalized specs". This "higher" cost for the Blu-Ray discs is not kicked down to the consumer. This is easily seen when you look in the stores and both HD-dvds and Blu-Rays are priced the same. Games released on SD on X-Box and Blu-Ray discs on PS3 are sold to the consumer for the exact same price. In my eyes I really don't see at this point how you could really call one better that the other. Besides, those of you pining for one format to get cheaper software will probably find out that one format will cause an increase in cost in the movies you buy.
Old 11-09-07, 11:59 AM
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I just feel like the last consideration in all of this is the benefit of the consumer. I will continue to buy both formats, but it's just irritating. I wish a clear winner would surface.
Old 11-09-07, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by justbarelymovin
I just feel like the last consideration in all of this is the benefit of the consumer. I will continue to buy both formats, but it's just irritating. I wish a clear winner would surface.
I understand your point here but it is because of this format war that we can get a lot of the HD movies on the cheap right now. I sure wish that there were different gas refineries and that there was competition for gas and gas prices. I'm sure that companies could still buy these barrels of oil at this top dollar price and still turn a decent profit while providing the consumers with a cheaper source of fuel. Unfortunately, we have some real turd burglars in charge and we, the consumers, are suffering from it.
Old 11-09-07, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by dsa_shea
So what would the PS4 be other than just simply calling it a PS4? It would need to be more technologically advanced than simply changing its name. Going back to SDs is not an option considering the move forward in the video game realm. I think this would be a stupid idea. The Blu-Ray drive is just as functional as an HD-DVd drive despite the fact that it doesn't have "finalized specs". This "higher" cost for the Blu-Ray discs is not kicked down to the consumer. This is easily seen when you look in the stores and both HD-dvds and Blu-Rays are priced the same. Games released on SD on X-Box and Blu-Ray discs on PS3 are sold to the consumer for the exact same price. In my eyes I really don't see at this point how you could really call one better that the other. Besides, those of you pining for one format to get cheaper software will probably find out that one format will cause an increase in cost in the movies you buy.
believe me, i think it would be a stupid idea too. i just think it would be less stupid than dropping blu-ray drives from the PS3. that was my only point. i don't really believe Sony is going to do either, so as mentioned before, i'm not going to drag this conversation on any further.
Old 11-09-07, 01:06 PM
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Wow. Just wow. If that quote is accurate, it surprises the hell out of me. Sony NEVER admits anything. Period. A few short months ago, they weren't even willing to admit that HD-DVD existed as a meaningful competitor to the inevitable dominance of Blu-Ray. Their attitude towards HD-DVD was dismissive and contemptuous.

Color me partisan, but if someone is admitting this publicly in an official capacity, I think that things are far worse off for Sony/BR than we thought.

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