WSJ claims only 25,000 Blu-ray players sold thus far
01-05-07, 02:02 PM
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WSJ claims only 25,000 Blu-ray players sold thus far
A story in yesterday's Wall Street Journal talking about LG's upcoming combo player also stated that despite all of Sony's marketing efforts and Toshiba's low-key (some would say invisible) promotional push, only 25,000 stand-alone Blu-ray players have been sold to date, compared to 120,000 HD-DVD players.
The article also stated 150,000 xBox HD drives and 400,000 PS3s were sold by the end of the year, but the bulk of the latter would be used primarily for gaming.
This all helps explain why HD-DVD outsells Blu-ray on such a consistent (and wide) margin. It also should make some studios (*cough* Disney *cough* Fox *cough* LG) think a little harder about their decision to go Blu-ray only.
The article also stated 150,000 xBox HD drives and 400,000 PS3s were sold by the end of the year, but the bulk of the latter would be used primarily for gaming.
This all helps explain why HD-DVD outsells Blu-ray on such a consistent (and wide) margin. It also should make some studios (*cough* Disney *cough* Fox *cough* LG) think a little harder about their decision to go Blu-ray only.
Last edited by Rusty James; 01-05-07 at 02:21 PM.
01-05-07, 02:06 PM
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PS3's started not coming with Talladega Nights. I thought that it was supposed to be with the first 400,000 US ps3's. That would indicate almost double WSJ's numbers, assuming there are a few scattered PS3's not being sold.
01-05-07, 02:11 PM
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Here is the full article from WSJ.com, but the numbers are different:
New DVD Players Resolve Battle of Formats
Models Expected This Year
Play Blu-ray and HD-DVD;
Waiting Out the Glitches
By SARAH MCBRIDE
January 4, 2007; Page B7
Many consumers have put off buying new high-definition DVD players, wary of the battle between two competing formats. Now, some electronics hardware makers are hoping to make the question moot by rolling out machines that play movies in both formats.
The two new formats, known as HD-DVD and Blu-ray, have been duking it out to become the next-generation DVD format of choice, each offering high-resolution video to match the HDTV sets that more families are buying.
But at the Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas next week, at least one hardware provider, LG Electronics Co., is expected to showcase DVD players that work with either technology. Hewlett-Packard Co. will also have products that support both formats in the marketplace this year, a source close to the company says. Others are expected to follow suit.
With HD-DVD titles such as "Miami Vice," users can click on a button to get a series of on-screen pop-up boxes with details like who made the boats or planes in a scene.
The news should come as a boon to consumers who are weighing which player to buy to go with their new big-screen, high-definition TV sets. While regular DVDs work on the new sets, DVD players specifically designed for HD offer exceptionally sharp pictures and more features.
But the burgeoning format war between the backers of HD-DVD and Blu-ray has caused many consumers to pause before taking the plunge into high-definition movie discs. Many studios aren't releasing movies in both HD-DVD and Blu-ray, so choosing one player or another could mean that the high-def version of a favorite title isn't available.
WSJ reporter Sarah McBride talks to Ed Crane of Dow Jones Online about the newest battle in the ongoing DVD format war.Universal Pictures, for example, releases movies only in HD-DVD, so its remake of "King Kong" isn't available in Blu-ray. Walt Disney Co., News Corp.'s Twentieth Century Fox and Sony Corp. release films only in Blu-ray, meaning there is no HD-DVD version of Disney's "Pearl Harbor." Viacom Inc.'s Paramount Pictures and Time Warner Inc.'s Warner Bros. release movies in both formats.
The new dual-format players will work by using optical drives and integrated circuits that can run with both HD-DVD and Blu-ray. Developing the drives proved tough because they needed to pull data from two different places on the discs, close to the top edge for Blu-ray and closer to the middle for HD-DVDs.
For now, the dual-format players are likely to carry high price tags, expected to be around $1,200 or higher. That's actually lower than some of the Blu-ray players out there -- Pioneer Corp.'s Pioneer Elite BDP HD-1 costs $1,500, although Sony and Samsung Electronics Co. offer less-expensive players at $1,000 and $800, respectively -- but more than double the $500 it costs for a Toshiba HD DVD player.
Sales of stand-alone DVD players have been slow, but there is an alternative for consumers looking to try high-def discs: game devices. Sony's PlayStation 3, which costs around $500, comes equipped with Blu-ray. And for $200, consumers can pick up an attachment that plays HD-DVD movies for Microsoft Corp.'s Xbox 360, which costs $300 to $400.
About 695,000 consumers own either a Blu-ray or an HD- DVD player, according to Tom Adams of Adams Media Research in Carmel, Calif. But only about 25,000 have purchased stand-alone Blu-ray players. Another 400,000 consumers have Blu-ray because they bought a Sony PS3 game console. Meanwhile, about 120,000 or so have a stand-alone HD-DVD player while about 150,000 have an HD-DVD upgrade kit for their Xbox 360 game consoles, Mr. Adams says. He adds that those numbers are well in excess of the 300,000 DVD-player sales in 1997, when that technology rolled out.
Some consumers have dodged high-definition players because they already own top-of-the-line DVD players that add higher resolution onto regular DVDs so they look crisper on HDTV sets. For those viewers, there might not be much advantage to the newer technologies.
San Francisco computer consultant Tyler Dikman, for example, owns a high-end Denon 3910 DVD player that he uses with a 60-inch Sony Grand Wega rear-projection HDTV set. Mr. Dikman had heard the buzz about next-generation DVDs for a couple of years and shelled out $1,000 for a Sony Blu-ray player in November. After watching movies like Paramount Pictures'" Mission Impossible III" and Columbia Pictures'" The Fifth Element" on the new player, he decided that, although the text was crisper on subtitles and there were fewer glitches like blurring, overall the Blu-ray movies didn't look much better than regular DVDs on his Denon player. The Sony player also wouldn't play his audio CDs. He took it back to a Best Buy Co. store last month.
FORMAT WARS
• Dueling Discs: Blu-ray and HD-DVD are fighting for control of your living room.
"I was waiting for this night-and-day difference, and I don't feel I got it," says Mr. Dikman, who says he still plans to buy a high-definition DVD player once the players have overcome snafus like the CD issue. Sony says there may be changes in future models, and overall, consumers have responded favorably to the product. "Of course, performance is affected by several factors, including what other components are included in the home theater system, how they are connected to one another and how the content was encoded," a Sony spokesman says.
Even if more hardware companies introduce dual-format players this year, it doesn't mean the Blu-ray vs. HD-DVD war is over for the movie studios. The same goes for the major hardware backers of each side: Sony for Blu-ray and Toshiba Corp. for HD-DVD. "We're fully expecting a couple of years of format war," says Mr. Adams.
Both formats offer similar extra features, including an option to inset smaller video clips into the main movie. That allows the movie to run with discreetly placed boxes showing, say, directors discussing their techniques.
The two formats allow consumers to get extra information with the click of a button while watching a movie. In Universal's "Miami Vice" on HD-DVD, users can click on a button to get a series of on-screen pop-up boxes with details like who made the boats or planes in a scene, what some of their features are and how much they cost. In Fox's globe-trotting "The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen" in Blu-ray viewers can turn on a "trivia track" feature explaining tidbits like where each scene was shot.
Because the Blu-ray-capable PS3 game consoles came to market only late last year, and many buyers are using them primarily for games, HD-DVD movies were far outselling Blu-ray titles, Mr. Adams says. Before the PS3s were shipped, HD-DVD titles were outselling Blu-Ray titles by two to one, he estimates, although the difference has narrowed considerably in recent weeks.
Both sides are offering plenty of incentives for consumers. The HD-DVD add-on for the Xbox 360 comes with "King Kong" in HD-DVD, for example, and anyone who buys a Toshiba HD-DVD player can choose three out of 15 movie titles as by-mail freebies. The first PS3 shipped with the Columbia Pictures movie "Talladega Nights" bundled in the package, and buyers of Blu-ray players receive coupon booklets good for $70 in rebates off various titles.
--Evan Ramstad and Christopher Lawton contributed to this article.
New DVD Players Resolve Battle of Formats
Models Expected This Year
Play Blu-ray and HD-DVD;
Waiting Out the Glitches
By SARAH MCBRIDE
January 4, 2007; Page B7
Many consumers have put off buying new high-definition DVD players, wary of the battle between two competing formats. Now, some electronics hardware makers are hoping to make the question moot by rolling out machines that play movies in both formats.
The two new formats, known as HD-DVD and Blu-ray, have been duking it out to become the next-generation DVD format of choice, each offering high-resolution video to match the HDTV sets that more families are buying.
But at the Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas next week, at least one hardware provider, LG Electronics Co., is expected to showcase DVD players that work with either technology. Hewlett-Packard Co. will also have products that support both formats in the marketplace this year, a source close to the company says. Others are expected to follow suit.
With HD-DVD titles such as "Miami Vice," users can click on a button to get a series of on-screen pop-up boxes with details like who made the boats or planes in a scene.
The news should come as a boon to consumers who are weighing which player to buy to go with their new big-screen, high-definition TV sets. While regular DVDs work on the new sets, DVD players specifically designed for HD offer exceptionally sharp pictures and more features.
But the burgeoning format war between the backers of HD-DVD and Blu-ray has caused many consumers to pause before taking the plunge into high-definition movie discs. Many studios aren't releasing movies in both HD-DVD and Blu-ray, so choosing one player or another could mean that the high-def version of a favorite title isn't available.
WSJ reporter Sarah McBride talks to Ed Crane of Dow Jones Online about the newest battle in the ongoing DVD format war.Universal Pictures, for example, releases movies only in HD-DVD, so its remake of "King Kong" isn't available in Blu-ray. Walt Disney Co., News Corp.'s Twentieth Century Fox and Sony Corp. release films only in Blu-ray, meaning there is no HD-DVD version of Disney's "Pearl Harbor." Viacom Inc.'s Paramount Pictures and Time Warner Inc.'s Warner Bros. release movies in both formats.
The new dual-format players will work by using optical drives and integrated circuits that can run with both HD-DVD and Blu-ray. Developing the drives proved tough because they needed to pull data from two different places on the discs, close to the top edge for Blu-ray and closer to the middle for HD-DVDs.
For now, the dual-format players are likely to carry high price tags, expected to be around $1,200 or higher. That's actually lower than some of the Blu-ray players out there -- Pioneer Corp.'s Pioneer Elite BDP HD-1 costs $1,500, although Sony and Samsung Electronics Co. offer less-expensive players at $1,000 and $800, respectively -- but more than double the $500 it costs for a Toshiba HD DVD player.
Sales of stand-alone DVD players have been slow, but there is an alternative for consumers looking to try high-def discs: game devices. Sony's PlayStation 3, which costs around $500, comes equipped with Blu-ray. And for $200, consumers can pick up an attachment that plays HD-DVD movies for Microsoft Corp.'s Xbox 360, which costs $300 to $400.
About 695,000 consumers own either a Blu-ray or an HD- DVD player, according to Tom Adams of Adams Media Research in Carmel, Calif. But only about 25,000 have purchased stand-alone Blu-ray players. Another 400,000 consumers have Blu-ray because they bought a Sony PS3 game console. Meanwhile, about 120,000 or so have a stand-alone HD-DVD player while about 150,000 have an HD-DVD upgrade kit for their Xbox 360 game consoles, Mr. Adams says. He adds that those numbers are well in excess of the 300,000 DVD-player sales in 1997, when that technology rolled out.
Some consumers have dodged high-definition players because they already own top-of-the-line DVD players that add higher resolution onto regular DVDs so they look crisper on HDTV sets. For those viewers, there might not be much advantage to the newer technologies.
San Francisco computer consultant Tyler Dikman, for example, owns a high-end Denon 3910 DVD player that he uses with a 60-inch Sony Grand Wega rear-projection HDTV set. Mr. Dikman had heard the buzz about next-generation DVDs for a couple of years and shelled out $1,000 for a Sony Blu-ray player in November. After watching movies like Paramount Pictures'" Mission Impossible III" and Columbia Pictures'" The Fifth Element" on the new player, he decided that, although the text was crisper on subtitles and there were fewer glitches like blurring, overall the Blu-ray movies didn't look much better than regular DVDs on his Denon player. The Sony player also wouldn't play his audio CDs. He took it back to a Best Buy Co. store last month.
FORMAT WARS
• Dueling Discs: Blu-ray and HD-DVD are fighting for control of your living room.
"I was waiting for this night-and-day difference, and I don't feel I got it," says Mr. Dikman, who says he still plans to buy a high-definition DVD player once the players have overcome snafus like the CD issue. Sony says there may be changes in future models, and overall, consumers have responded favorably to the product. "Of course, performance is affected by several factors, including what other components are included in the home theater system, how they are connected to one another and how the content was encoded," a Sony spokesman says.
Even if more hardware companies introduce dual-format players this year, it doesn't mean the Blu-ray vs. HD-DVD war is over for the movie studios. The same goes for the major hardware backers of each side: Sony for Blu-ray and Toshiba Corp. for HD-DVD. "We're fully expecting a couple of years of format war," says Mr. Adams.
Both formats offer similar extra features, including an option to inset smaller video clips into the main movie. That allows the movie to run with discreetly placed boxes showing, say, directors discussing their techniques.
The two formats allow consumers to get extra information with the click of a button while watching a movie. In Universal's "Miami Vice" on HD-DVD, users can click on a button to get a series of on-screen pop-up boxes with details like who made the boats or planes in a scene, what some of their features are and how much they cost. In Fox's globe-trotting "The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen" in Blu-ray viewers can turn on a "trivia track" feature explaining tidbits like where each scene was shot.
Because the Blu-ray-capable PS3 game consoles came to market only late last year, and many buyers are using them primarily for games, HD-DVD movies were far outselling Blu-ray titles, Mr. Adams says. Before the PS3s were shipped, HD-DVD titles were outselling Blu-Ray titles by two to one, he estimates, although the difference has narrowed considerably in recent weeks.
Both sides are offering plenty of incentives for consumers. The HD-DVD add-on for the Xbox 360 comes with "King Kong" in HD-DVD, for example, and anyone who buys a Toshiba HD-DVD player can choose three out of 15 movie titles as by-mail freebies. The first PS3 shipped with the Columbia Pictures movie "Talladega Nights" bundled in the package, and buyers of Blu-ray players receive coupon booklets good for $70 in rebates off various titles.
--Evan Ramstad and Christopher Lawton contributed to this article.
01-05-07, 02:12 PM
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Those numbers for both HD DVD and Blu-ray sound very low compared to previous reports.
edit: Okay, the corrected numbers seem a bit better. I am still surprised at how low the Blu-ray #'s are. Then again, we don't really know what percentage of PS3 owners are using it for Blu-ray movies.
edit: Okay, the corrected numbers seem a bit better. I am still surprised at how low the Blu-ray #'s are. Then again, we don't really know what percentage of PS3 owners are using it for Blu-ray movies.
Last edited by flashburn; 01-05-07 at 02:23 PM.
01-05-07, 02:15 PM
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I have an addon and I still don't consider that a standalone. If 80,000 includes the addon then standalone sales must be hovering around 40,000.
But flash is right, these totals sound awfully low.
But flash is right, these totals sound awfully low.
01-05-07, 03:48 PM
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Some consumers have dodged high-definition players because they already own top-of-the-line DVD players that add higher resolution onto regular DVDs so they look crisper on HDTV sets. For those viewers, there might not be much advantage to the newer technologies.
01-05-07, 03:57 PM
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FWIW my PS3 is being used solely for BD movies. I haven't even put a game in it yet. As for the sales figures, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that a standalone BD player priced at $999 isn't going to sell anywhere near as many as a standalone HD DVD player priced at $499. I'm not directing that to anyone here but rather to Samsung, Sony, Panasonic, Phillips, and Pioneer for being such fools that they didn't take Toshiba's pricing strategy seriously. Now HD DVD has a sizeable lead and their playing from behind and it's no ones fault but their own. And personally with the PS3 including an excellent BD player in it, I can't see why anyone would pay a lot more for the standalone players... gamer or not. I suspect that as Blu-ray software becomes more appealing throughout 2007 that the PS3s will sell very well because more and more people will realize it's the most economical way to get Blu-ray movies into their homes and their kids will love the games. It's the only real winning option for BD hardware at this point.
01-05-07, 04:26 PM
#9
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Not saying the Wall Street Journal is wrong or anything, but according to an article Engadget reported on the other day, during the holiday season constituting from November 26th to New Year's Day, Sony sold 750k PS3s domestically (very low considering Microsoft sold 2 million 360s and Nintendo sold 1.8 million Wiis).
01-05-07, 04:33 PM
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The real determining factor here is how many people are using their PS3 as a Blu-Ray factor. The article states that number is low, but no real value is given.
01-05-07, 04:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Matthew Chmiel
Not saying the Wall Street Journal is wrong or anything, but according to an article Engadget reported on the other day, during the holiday season constituting from November 26th to New Year's Day, Sony sold 750k PS3s domestically (very low considering Microsoft sold 2 million 360s and Nintendo sold 1.8 million Wiis).
750,000 in 2 months is quite a bit considering it's limited supply.
01-05-07, 04:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Groucho
The real determining factor here is how many people are using their PS3 as a Blu-Ray factor. The article states that number is low, but no real value is given.
01-05-07, 06:27 PM
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The only way anyone could probably judge the amount of PS3 owners interested in Blu-Ray movies is if there is a surge in sales of BR software that correspond with the release of the PS3.
If you're going from an installed base of 25,000 players to 400,000 players in a week, there should be some kind of increase in the sales of software if the PS3 owners have any interest in BR.
If you're going from an installed base of 25,000 players to 400,000 players in a week, there should be some kind of increase in the sales of software if the PS3 owners have any interest in BR.
01-05-07, 06:47 PM
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If the DVD website is any indication, the PS3 has had huge impact on the "HD DVD" market.
http://www.dvdempire.com/index.asp?&...ite_media_id=0
Format: HD-DVD Blu-Ray
Week: 44.50% 55.50%
Month: 44.94% 55.06%
Year: 61.13% 38.87%
Data seems to show HD-DVD has had the better year, but Blu-Ray Movie sales (maybe from PS3 sales) has suppassed the HD-DVD Movie sales. If this info continues to be turn, they next year could be very interesting.
"Let there be only one DISK FORMAT to rule them all"
http://www.dvdempire.com/index.asp?&...ite_media_id=0
Format: HD-DVD Blu-Ray
Week: 44.50% 55.50%
Month: 44.94% 55.06%
Year: 61.13% 38.87%
Data seems to show HD-DVD has had the better year, but Blu-Ray Movie sales (maybe from PS3 sales) has suppassed the HD-DVD Movie sales. If this info continues to be turn, they next year could be very interesting.
"Let there be only one DISK FORMAT to rule them all"
01-05-07, 06:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Josh-da-man
The only way anyone could probably judge the amount of PS3 owners interested in Blu-Ray movies is if there is a surge in sales of BR software that correspond with the release of the PS3.
If you're going from an installed base of 25,000 players to 400,000 players in a week, there should be some kind of increase in the sales of software if the PS3 owners have any interest in BR.
If you're going from an installed base of 25,000 players to 400,000 players in a week, there should be some kind of increase in the sales of software if the PS3 owners have any interest in BR.
Before the PS3s were shipped, HD-DVD titles were outselling Blu-Ray titles by two to one, he estimates, although the difference has narrowed considerably in recent weeks.
01-05-07, 07:08 PM
#20
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The DVDWars numbers also support HD DVD's lead over Blu-Ray shrinking. Blu-Ray is now not being outsold as much, but still being outsold (if Amazon is a decent gauge).
01-05-07, 08:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Iron_Giant
Data seems to show HD-DVD has had the better year, but Blu-Ray Movie sales (maybe from PS3 sales) has suppassed the HD-DVD Movie sales. If this info continues to be turn, they next year could be very interesting.
With the current premium price that BDs command (roughly $4-5 more than most equivalent HD DVDs, and nearly $10 more than standard DVDs on average), people will need a reason to invest more in the technology. If they are thinking of the future, or if they see enough of an improvement in picture quality to justify it, they may continue. If not, then those numbers won't hold.
01-05-07, 08:57 PM
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Originally Posted by RoboDad
With the current premium price that BDs command (roughly $4-5 more than most equivalent HD DVDs, and nearly $10 more than standard DVDs on average)
01-05-07, 10:44 PM
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Maybe this is slightly off-topic, but I can see how the average consumer is not going to support either format. I've tried to explain to the wife why I am buying an HD DVD player, I've tried to explain the advantages to friends and family and I always just get a blank stare.. Honestly, until people start see'ing demos of HD DVD or BluRay at their local Wal-Mart, I don't think either format stands a chance.
-shrugs-
-shrugs-
01-05-07, 10:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Nevi
Most BDs and HD DVDs are the same price. True there are some more expensive BDs from Disney and Fox but they're balanced by the more expensive HD DVD Combos from Warner and Universal. Software prices are quite even as far as I've seen.