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This is from a Sony dealer on AVS.
Fucking amazing. Just got home from Sony dealer training. The portion devoted to Blu-ray was long on talk, short on substance. Basically, rehashing the same song and dance as the past year with not much to show for it. Still touting the same specs without revealing the now well-known production issues (which I expected). There was a single BDP-S1 Blu-ray player being used for the actual Blu-ray demo. It was a prototype that the trainer had to admit was not able to play a commercial blu-ray disc. Output was limited to 1080i. The only disc he would/could play was demo clips. The player was not turned off or the disc stopped while we were in the room. Other demos for TVs were using the Japanese BD-ROM player that has been around a while. Only playing clips, no commercial discs. This is as of August 15th. I asked about disc replication issues. I could best describe the response of the trainer as "deer in the headlights" followed by quizical consternation. In other words, like a good soldier, when confronted with undeniable negative data, play dumb. After some five years of developement with prototypes now over a year old, Sony still can't produce a commercially viable player that conforms to the BD spec, there is that little issue of some 60% or more failure rate for single layer BD discs and dual layer BD not even producable in commercial quantity. Negative feedback was not even hinted at. All they wanted to do was blow sunshine up our..., well, you know. They are still making a huge issue out of PS3. They are telling dealers that PS3 will be the key to Blu-ray's success, will make us all a lot of money, and bring world peace. |
Sweet...world peace. :lol:
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I think world peace is only included in the $599 model. The $499 just gets you peace in the Balkans, but you may be able to upgrade later.
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:lol:
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Way off topic.....
Kind of sucks we regular folk can't have avatars. :(
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...dvd/HDDVD2.gif |
Originally Posted by The Bus
That's silly, though. Obviously, this is a clear coating as the laser needs to penetrate the material to be able to read the media. If it can read the media through the Durabis coating, I'd presume that it can write to it too. A laser is a laser, after all.
Also, TDK's Durabis2 coating is on their blank media. |
Originally Posted by candyrocket786
Kind of sucks we regular folk can't have avatars. :(
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Originally Posted by XavierMike
I think world peace is only included in the $599 model. The $499 just gets you peace in the Balkans, but you may be able to upgrade later.
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Originally Posted by penguin42
As much as I would like to respect the opinions of others, it's impossible if their argument is completely irrational.
This website thinks blu ray will win. But wait until you read why Blu Ray will win! http://www.hdbeat.com/2006/08/16/why-blu-ray-will-win/ I havn't laughed that hard in a while. I'm hoping that whoever wrote that got a nice paycheck from Sony. He is discussing that very article in this thread: Another Why BD will win article : HDBeat. It is pretty interesting. Amirm is involved... pretty good read. He starts responding in post #6 (bdraw is the username). |
Originally Posted by awmurray
Hey, the author of that article is much less gung-ho about Blu-ray on AVS.
He is discussing that very article in this thread: Another Why BD will win article : HDBeat. It is pretty interesting. Amirm is involved... pretty good read. He starts responding in post #6 (bdraw is the username). But Ben, that is not news. And recent history shows that more support doesn't mean better delivery of what people are looking for: excellence in audio, video and interactivity. Fewer companies can move much faster and more efficiently to build a format. The original CD format was owned and developed by two companies: Sony and Philips. BDA with so many members and agendas, moves slowly. And membership there doesn't translate to products that move the needle. Or for that matter, real products. Look at Thomson who has shipped HD DVD players, not BD. Let's look at Dell. All last year they were practically the spokesperson for BDA, talking about how great BD format was. But here we are, with no BD product from them where as LG, Acer, Fujitsu and Toshiba have all shipped HD DVD laptops. Of significant note is that the three core companies in BDA, Sony/Philips/Panasonic, have not shipped any products. And Sony will OEM a player from another company. Or aggressiveness in pricing them. This speaks volumes to the prospects of the format in the eyes of their business decision makers, not their standards setting folks. And we have companies like HP who was the marketing leader for BD format but later decided to also support HD DVD. So things change. A year ago when we threw our support behind HD DVD, people thought it would not matter and that with all the “support” behind BDA, HD DVD was as good as dead. Indeed, there were polls created here asking if this were true, and majority said yes. But the same poll has the opposite results now. Fact is that great execution matters more than the army of people behind you. It pains me to point this out but Apple has done very well with the iPod against the mass of traditional CE companies. We are not Apple and I don’t mean to imply that these analogies are the same. But it is important to know that HD DVD is real, and can do the job exceptionally well. And we have proven that we can deliver exceptional audio and video in HD DVD-30. Yes, BD-50 is an important thing for BD to get done from marketing point of view. But reality is that with advanced codecs, the only use of that extra 20 gigabytes is to fill it with even more extras. But if the upcoming release of MI3 is any indication, the market values two HD DVD discs more than a single BD-50 discs that may even cost more. Indeed that releases uses two BD-25 discs. It may not be an attractive thing to say but the outcome of this “war” currently is that both formats will live on. Studios will eventually support both at which point, the consumer will not care about the war. And yes, I am including Sony in this list. Recall that they eventually supported the VHS format… |
Originally Posted by Amir via dfnyc
But if the upcoming release of MI3 is any indication, the market values two HD DVD discs more than a single BD-50 discs that may even cost more.
To consumers 2 discs equals "value" -- if I am at the store looking at the B for Beretta: Collectorgasmic Edition and I see it has two commentaries, deleted scenes, and features, that doesn't tell me as much as it being two or three discs. As a B for Beretta Maniak(tm) I would buy the more discy release. Now, that idea may change, but for the past ten years, "More than 1 disc" = better value. |
Originally Posted by stanrozenfeld
Now, here is an article that seems to claim that blu-ray is actually outselling hd dvd!
http://www.homemediaretailing.com/ne...rticle_ID=9539 It boggles the mind! It just seems to contradict every piece of anecdotal evidence that we have. Any comments? Stan http://www.homemediaretailing.com/ne...rticle_id=9539 Comparing both formats’ first six weeks of launch, HD DVD player sales, which began in April, outsold Blu-ray players, which launched in June, by 33%. But Blu-ray’s first six weeks of launch, thanks to its higher-priced players, raked in 42% more revenue than HD DVD hardware did during its first six weeks out. Blu-ray’s singular player on the market is a $999 model from Samsung. The report also compared the two formats’ performance during a short time they have both been available, the six weeks ended July 29. Based on that time frame, Blu-ray led the next-generation market with a 54% share of hardware units sold and a 69% revenue share, according to NPD data. HD-DVD's launch was better than Blu-Ray's launch. But, during the first three weeks of the Blu-Ray launch, it sold more than HD-DVD was selling at the time. In the final three weeks, HD-DVD outpaced Blu-Ray again, but not enough to be the victor overall during that 6-week period. Again... HD-DVD's launch sold more hardware than Blu-Ray's launch. During weeks 1 to 3 that both formats were available, Blu-Ray outsold HD-DVD. During weeks 4 to 6 that both formats were available, HD-DVD outsold Blu-Ray. During weeks 1 to 6 that both formats were available, Blu Ray outsold HD-DVD (winning 54% share). During weeks 1 to 6 that both formats were available, regular DVD players outsold HD/BR players 259 to 1. Blu-Ray was responsible for higher revenues. There is no publicly released retailer margin or profit data (in that article). |
Another "review" of the new Sony machine from AVS:
I just saw a demo of Sony's new player at a Sony showroom in Tampa. I was totally underwhelmed by what I saw. The quality of the video was not as good as you get from HBOHD, and that is faint praise at best. I wouldn't pay $500 for the player with that format, much less a $1,000. |
Just out of curiosity I was looking at (unreliable) Amazon sales data from Amazon.co.jp...
First off, they don't even list the Toshiba HD-A1. (They do have the HD-XA1). But they do have this lovely little monster: http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0...V63838869_.jpg It's Toshiba's set-top HD-DVD burner slash 1TB DVR - yup, 1,099,511,627,776 bytes. I think it can record like 50 days of SD programming. The best part? It's "sales rank" is around #11,000... Meanwhile, player ranks for HD/BR players here are regularly above 11,000. Oh... Japan. |
Only $3300.
:D |
Sony's unit is rebranded with Pioneer parts, I think. Someone over at AVS has mentioned this before.
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Originally Posted by The Bus
Just out of curiosity I was looking at (unreliable) Amazon sales data from Amazon.co.jp...
First off, they don't even list the Toshiba HD-A1. (They do have the HD-XA1). But they do have this lovely little monster: It's Toshiba's set-top HD-DVD burner slash 1TB DVR - yup, 1,099,511,627,776 bytes. I think it can record like 50 days of SD programming. The best part? It's "sales rank" is around #11,000... Meanwhile, player ranks for HD/BR players here are regularly above 11,000. Oh... Japan. http://forum.dvdtalk.com/showthread....light=recorder |
Originally Posted by Mr. Cinema
Sony's unit is rebranded with Pioneer parts, I think. Someone over at AVS has mentioned this before.
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Originally Posted by The Bus
Just out of curiosity I was looking at (unreliable) Amazon sales data from Amazon.co.jp...
First off, they don't even list the Toshiba HD-A1. (They do have the HD-XA1). |
Rumor (avs) has it that Target will start stocking HD DVD and BD discs starting 10/8. They will apparently be watching sales figures to see if they should keep stocking them.
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Well, I'm not going to Target to buy HD DVDs unless they have significantly lower prices than Amazon.
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Originally Posted by Suprmallet
Well, I'm not going to Target to buy HD DVDs unless they have significantly lower prices than Amazon.
New around here, are ya? :) |
Will Target allow me to apply all those wonderful Amazon discounts? ;)
I just don't like going into Target if I don't have to. |
Originally Posted by digitalfreaknyc
Uhh...target's prices (currently) ARE Amazon's.
New around here, are ya? :) Target store prices have no relation to Amazon or Target.com prices. |
Well I was in Bestbuy yesterday, and they had one in stock. I had the HD-DVD player in my "cart" and was headed up to the checkout, but didnt pull the trigger. The first time I ever had pre-buyer's remorse, but the weakness is getting worse. I really hope the Xbox 360 add-on comes out soon. Dont know how much longer I can hold out.
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Originally Posted by FantasticVSDoom
Well I was in Bestbuy yesterday, and they had one in stock. I had the HD-DVD player in my "cart" and was headed up to the checkout, but didnt pull the trigger. The first time I ever had pre-buyer's remorse, but the weakness is getting worse. I really hope the Xbox 360 add-on comes out soon. Dont know how much longer I can hold out.
I'll walk you to the best buy and hold your hand. I promise everything will be ok after it's all over. ;) OR...we'll go to the continental website. That should be easier for the wife to swallow. |
Originally Posted by FantasticVSDoom
Well I was in Bestbuy yesterday, and they had one in stock. I had the HD-DVD player in my "cart" and was headed up to the checkout, but didnt pull the trigger. The first time I ever had pre-buyer's remorse, but the weakness is getting worse. I really hope the Xbox 360 add-on comes out soon. Dont know how much longer I can hold out.
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Originally Posted by Suprmallet
Do you have a Netflix account? Put some HD DVDs you want to see in your queue, buy the HD-A1 from Best Buy, and if you don't like it (or just get buyer's remorse again), return it within 30 days. Just make sure they don't charge a restocking fee.
I'd say you were please, right Justin? :) Oh and aside from that, here's some food for thought. http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,2003413,00.asp Will Sony Ever Be Sony Again? 08.14.06 The company used to have an innovative soul—back in the day. |
Popped into my local Best Buy today, which they re-organized for about the fifty billionth time in the past few years. Anyway, aside from it looking pretty damn good, they had a nice HD DVD setup in the home theater section. I was quite happy to see it getting decent treatment. Perhaps I didn't look enough, but I couldn't find anything related to Blu-Ray, with the exception of some movies in a small aisle display case.
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Definitely pleased, and one will be mine, but I feel I should still hold out a while longer (plus I didnt have a 10% off coupon either). It wasnt Leslie (the wife) this time...It was me. In fact she said that she was going to go to the store next week and pick it up for me because I wouldnt shut-up about not buying it, and she was serious :lol:.
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I still don't understand why a single store doesn't have a display, a unit, and the software titles all in one centralized location.
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Originally Posted by The Bus
I still don't understand why a single store doesn't have a display, a unit, and the software titles all in one centralized location.
crazy thing is, they are selling out like pancakes without all that. I think if they got their production ramped up, added some more titles, they would do that. Advertise I mean. Right now, it might be more harm then good if they did a bunch of advertising and didn't have any product. That would actually steer people away. |
http://www.fantasticdamage.com/blog/hdchart5.gif
For the first time in a month, a Blu-Ray title has outsold an HD-DVD title and a Blu-Ray product has cracked the top 1000 of its category. The title in question is Silent Hill, a day-and-date release with DVD. The DVD is selling well at #20 and the Blu-Ray edition has the same price: $16.99 (or less with Amazon's 10% discount). We saw how much a low price can help sales: the peak for HD-DVD sales was when Sleepy Hollow was priced at $14.95. Earlier Blu-Ray day-and-date sales weren't as high for RV and Benchwarmers: the former couldn't crack the top 2000 and Benchwarmers is doing especially poorly, being among Amazon's worst selling discs on the format. On the hardware side, sales trend lines indicate Toshiba's A1 is slowly selling less and less compared to other electronics; it's sales rank is dropping by about 4 places per day. This is so minor that the A1 is likely to remain in the third band of sales rank (the top 1000). Other HD-DVD hardware, the Toshiba HD-XA1 and the RCA HDV5000, are moderately increasing their sales, bettering their rank by an average of about 150 per day. Blu-Ray hardware is not faring as well, with the Samsung sales rank slipping about 100 per day and Sony's an average of 400 per day. No hardware outside of Toshiba's A1 has cracked the top 1000. Of course you can't read too much into this: it's only one retailer, but it is one of the largest online retailers and has a very large, broad customer base. The only clear data we have so far tells us this: neither HD-DVD nor Blu-Ray are selling well, although HD-DVD is selling slightly better. Until we see both formats selling within the top 1000 consistently, we shouldn't celebrate so much. |
Until we see both formats selling within the top 1000 consistently, we shouldn't celebrate so much. I'll take just one, please. :) |
Originally Posted by digitalfreaknyc
I highly doubt ANY of us would be celebrating if both were selling within the top 1000 consistently.
I'll take just one, please. :) Best Outcomes 1. Best format wins. 2. Both formats win. 3. Neither format wins. Unless you're a nihilist, I think you'd have to agree that it's better to have #2 than #3. |
Nihilists! Fuck me. I mean, say what you like about the tenets of National Socialism, Dude, at least it's an ethos.
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I don't know if this has been talked about yet, but man, those Disney BD covers are awful. I thought Universal's were a bit strange with the white areas on the top and bottom, but these are much worse. The Great Raid in particular looks awkward, with the title pushed over to the left side:
http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0...V61373783_.jpg |
Originally Posted by The Bus
Ugh, not this argument again. Let's be clear:
Best Outcomes 1. Best format wins. 2. Both formats win. 3. Neither format wins. Unless you're a nihilist, I think you'd have to agree that it's better to have #2 than #3. There is only one. And unless you're blind, there's no reason to hope that BD wins. I seriously don't get why anyone would want BOTH to win. #3 can't happen because HD DVD is already out AND it puts out quality that is unsurpassed. In that respect, it's already won. |
Originally Posted by digitalfreaknyc
I seriously don't get why anyone would want BOTH to win.
<ul> <li> Blu-Ray wins 90% marketshare, DVD gets 9%, HD-DVD disappears. <li> HD-DVD wins 90% marketshare, DVD gets 9%, Blu-Ray disappears. <li> DVD gets 90% marketshare, HD-DVD and Blu-Ray split the other 9%, then disappear. <li> HD-DVD and Blu-Ray split 90% marketshare, DVD gets the remaining 9%, then disappears. </ol> |
Originally Posted by The Bus
Blu-Ray hardware is not faring as well, with the Samsung sales rank slipping about 100 per day and Sony's an average of 400 per day.
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