They never have before, why would they now? (at least not Adam) As an example, about half the posts you made responding to me this year have been personal attacks. Then you get all wiggy when I respond in kind. News flash, people don't like being called idiot, foolish and all the other (apparently minor, is that ok then?) insults you favor.

:rolleyes:
Make up your mind for once. PM has been off on this board for years, btw.

There are two obvious reasons for that. The first is that there are very few BD fans bothering to post on this site anymore, while the second is that there's no point complaining if nothing is going to be done about it. There was clearly concerted baiting of Blitz on this forum, much of it outside this "free-for-all" thread. It's an ugly thing, and may partially explain the lack of insider participation on this site.

Agree on that. Dual-sided is highly overrated. I'd much rather have two single-sided discs than one double-sided disc.


Perhaps. But just remember that about a year ago, everyone thought that HD DVD was dead, and look how it fluorished. I agree with Evan that "there is plenty of room for both of them in the marketplace, and there is no reason for either one to monopolize it."

Obviously I'd have to respectfully disagree.

unless a dual-format player comes out, there's zero reason to have two formats.

And even if a DF player comes out, there's still no reason. :)

I thought that I read somewhere that double sided BD discs was impossible due to some technical limitation. Thickness maybe?

Does anyone remember this? I dont remember where I read that. Probably on avs.

Vague memory of something like, 'the depth is all wrong for dual sided'. Although that was true for CD, but they managed to make Dual-disc, anyway.

Yeah, I think it had to do with the thickness of the coating.

They are having enough trouble with double-layered right now, so attempting double-sided might be a feat.

Also, vague memory of it not being an issue. Supposedly they can do 8 layers on one side, so who needs another side? Still waiting for 2 layers to work, of course.

I don't think we lost much, if any, readership, though. There were quite a few vocal Blu-ray supporters; it's just that many of them are now HD DVD supporters.

As I've said before, I'm not anti-Blu-ray, and I don't champion HD DVD. If the quality of Blu-ray's hardware and software get to where they should be, I'll be first in line when the quality stuff is available. It's just that that hasn't happened yet, and the arrogance of some people in the Blu-ray camp has made that format seem all the less appealing.

DVD Talk as a whole has very little insider participation. I doubt the atmosphere here has anything to do with it. It's just that there are more popular, more established HD-centric message boards where those insiders were already participating.

I've posted quite a few "hey, cut it out"s after DNY's posts. I agree that perhaps I should have done more. I'm as sick of the baiting and bickering as anyone.

agreed. Especially since, for the past few years at least, you could get the FF or WS version of a disk for about the same price, and play them both on the same player, which you could get for less than 200 bucks. And there's a difference between being forced to buy FF or WS, if that was the only version, and still being able to play it, versus not being able to watch The Fifth Element in high definition because you've only got a 500$ HD player, and not a 1000$ BD player. I think part of the speedy success of DVD, apart from the PS2 and its pricing, was the fact that it was reasonably easy to use, and you knew what you were getting; they would work with pretty much any TV, and if you bought a "DVD" in a US store, there was 99.99% chance it would play on your dvd player. Having a format, that requires a large chunk of initial investment outlay to even use, then requiring people to either choose one format and be limited to only certain movies, or buy two pieces of hardware for triple the cost of just one to be able to access the whole library, is a barrier to either format's widespread acceptance, imho.
And the prices would have to drop *a lot* for people other than fanatics or enthusiasts to buy both sets of hardware, so the price competition may not be as strong as it is when lots of products are competing for the same audience. As a semi-interested enthusiast, and hopefully educated consumer, I would definitely prefer one format to choose from, with lots of players and titles to choose from.
and yeah, I think there is baiting/trolling/flaming on all sides, though maybe to different extents.

I believe that the charts MS released show about 5 million for the end of the year. They have been on the market about 8 months I think.

Adam,

As I said, feel free to call me out if I say something inappropriate (via email, if possible). Although I appreciate the love, I'm not here to cause any more problems than are necessary. ;)

We discussed it outside. I don't think you'll see any more problems between us. At least, we'll try.

:grouphug:


;)

I was talking about last year. I could have sworn that they stated 3 million or so would be shipped before Jan 06...but production problems hampered that and I dont think they even shipped 1 million before that time.

This year, they plan to have sold 10 million by the end of the year. Who knows if they will reach that.

EDIT: They shipped 1.3 million by the end of last year. They planned 2.75 million though in the first 3 months.

http://www.xb360info.com/xbox/news/257
http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2006/01...0_hibernation/

Yes, that chart is Old, and is based on a lot of the hoopla from before the launch of both formats - and before everyone realized how far off the promise some things were.

Among the corrections I would note:

1) The list of Audio formats makes no distinction as to what is mandatory in the players of each format, vs "optional". HD DVD players are required to have DD, DTS, DD+, TruHD decoders (DTS-HD is optional). Blurya is required to have only DD an DTS. As a result, far more HD DVD releases have the advanced audio codec soundtracks, since studios know all players will support them.

2) Obviously 25 Gigs Single Layer is what Bluray is stuck at now, since they have been having massive problems getting reliable and efficient proiduction of dual layer.

3) The Bluray hybrid discs with DVD and Bluray layers is a complete myth. It was talked about in the early days, but TDK or JVC was unable to get the thing to work and it was abandoned. It is in the spec as just a fantasy right now.

if that's true, that doesn't bode well.

Supposedly they've gotten the yields up to 80% now...but...could be bullshit.

Actually, even if they got them to work, they would never see the light of day as they incorporate DVD technology and the BDA is not part of the DVD Forum, so it would be grounds for a major lawsuit against the BDA.

Btw...here's a bit of news. I had speculated this a while back and now it's looking to be true.

You know that diode shortage that's affecting the BD community?

Yeah.

Guess who bought all those up a while back? ;)

I thought it had already been confirmed that MS stockpiled a while back and now they're doling them out to everything that says "HD DVD" on it.

Blu-Ray equals Death Ray
September 7, 2006
Sony's Playstation 3 will not be released for the all-important Christmas season in Europe, the UK, Russia, and Austral-Asia because of production shortages of the Blu-ray laser diodes. You can hear the sounds of glee coming out of Redmond already. Sony can only make half as many of the 7kg PS3 units as it wanted and these are going to Japan and, by ship, to the USA, both regions which use the NTSC video standard and not the PAL standard used elsewhere.

It's not the first time Sony has delayed the PlayStation 3 launch, again due to Blu-ray problems. But the stakes this time are immeasurably higher. Microsoft already has its Xbox 360 out and the competing Toshiba-led HD-DVD high-definition optical disc product is going to have a relatively clear run in the European market. A Nintendo Wii console will be a launched later this year giving PS3 added market competition.

Toshiba aims to launch its first HD-DVD players in Europe on November 15, with a second player to be released in December. Tosh officials have claimed that more than 10,000 units will be shipped to Europe for the November launch.

Coming after the Dell and Apple Lithium-Iron Sony battery recalls the company's reputation is taking a beating and Sir Howard Stringer could be forgiven for polishing up his CV.

Sony promises PS3 availability for the rest of the world outside Japan and the USA for March. It will have to be outstandingly better at both graphics and games performance to overcome this sales problem. There is now a strong chance, a very strong chance, that HD-DVD will wipe out Blu-ray as a high-definition format and that Sony will become an also-ran Japanese electronics company.

http://www.techworld.com/storage/blo...=3&entryid=249

http://www.newratings.com/analyst_ne...e_1363083.html

This phrase automatically negates anything else that tidbit might say.

Heh, it's funny to watch financial analysts try to figure out video games.

What the fuck is a gamestation?

Is it the same thing as an Okama Gamesphere?

I hear the parachuting level on that is way cooler than real life, which is just something to get in the way of returning to your game.

I'm still wondering what "Blu-Ray DVD" is.

I used to mention that it should be called Blu-ray Disc, because DVD is trademarked by the DVD Forum, but no one listened. :(

According to Best Buy, its the "Next Generation of DVD!!".

The DVD Forum could all retire happy just sueing for trademark violation at this point. :)

No, they couldn't, because it's not the BDA who is using the name. Maybe they could sue Best Buy, but I don't think they'd get very far, nor would they want to, since Best Buy could just decide that HD DVD isn't worth carrying anymore.

From 5% to 80%? Not bad if true.

You got my point Adam. Both formats were terrible 3 years ago in the early development stages. Red Laser formats using MPEG-2 on dvd9s. lol.

At the risk of "crying wolf" again...it looks like something "big" may be happening again tonight at midnight.

Which could have something to do with this...

It's going to be the pricing/details on the Nintendo Wii, sorry.

I would be quite surprised if it were the pricing/release date on the Wii, as Nintendo is holding a press conference in about a week.

Interesting. Few thoughts on various posts.

I had a feeling MS was stockpiling diodes away. :)

The 80% BD50 yield number, with only three announced titles by November? Put my vote on the bullshit button.

It's probably MS. It's not Sony's style to contact Joystiq or Kotaku.

err...the announcement was that the Wii chip production is well underway say Nintendo and IBM.

Joystiq has posted on their website an apology for generating excitement to heh.