It's my understanding that Dreamworks will actually be releasing for HD-DVD...is this incorrect?

You know, I didn't even know Dreamworks didn't support Blu-Ray. The Bits says they don't support Blu-Ray but are "expected" to support HD-DVD. The Blu-Ray site and L&S of Perfect don't show Dreamworks at all.

The more I read on it it seems they are really in neither camp. They've co-distributed with Columbia (Sony), WB, Fox, and Universal... Interesting.

I can't really blame him. CC are touting both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray as "next generation DVD."

If he's not the type to read up on things and know the facts, it's easy to see where there would be confusion.

So are HDDVD and BD. Will be for years. What's the point? HDTV will gain more acceptance faster than either disc format.

DVD was a vast step up from VHS and broadcast TV. It actually used all the capabilities of the NTSC system, whereas the others did not. It was around a 4x resolution upgrade or more, about the same as DVD->HD. Ok, it wasn't much better than LD technically, but the price and eventual acceptance made it a huge step up to consumers. LD was a niche because of price and physical size. HDTV to HDDVD is nothing in comparison to VHS->DVD. Getting rid of bad reception from antenna/satellite is the greatest step up in video features for HDTV->HDDVD. (we'll just ignore BD for the moment, maybe someday it will be worth discussing, too)

Gimme a break. He used the singular, not system. Whatever, maybe he meant system, doesn't matter. Because, this agrees exactly with what I am saying. People here are J6Ps who don't care about audio, and that's stupid. $400 for the complete system? What's the point next to the $2000 TV and $500 HD player? Doesn't sound like a theater to me, sounds like measuring dicks, which has always bored me.

When people come to my house, the TV wows them, but the sound is what makes the experience and puts you in the show. This is audio nuts, videophiles, 5 year olds, grandparents, whatever. For $1000, you could get a speaker system that would blow you away more than a 50" TV. High-end starts at around $10K, if you ask me.

Make up your mind. Is it a niche so far, so we have to worry about the future? Or does everyone already have a 5.1 system and are all set? Lots of people are yet to buy a surround setup. Even the <$500 setups are starting to be 7.1, and are getting HDMI. Which, theoretically, will be compatible with HDDVD/BD by the end of this year or next. Certainly by the time the prices come down on these players and become more attractive to more people. They better have this fixed by then.

They have it (lossless 7.1 codecs), I want them to use it. What is the problem with me wanting that, exactly? Lossless is more important than the last 2 channels, I suppose; it's just stupid that they haven't bothered with the other channels. And the lossless upgrade is not subtle, you just don't seem to care enough to make it a priority. I have the SACD by Norah Jones, it's like she's whispering in your ear. (and this isn't even my best high-rez audio disc) I am dying to get that quality for movies.

So, enjoy the video and nothing else if that's what pleases you. Party on. Don't see why I should be run down since I want more.

High-end is completely subjective. To some people, high-end is $500 because that is more than what they would pay for a TV. For others, $5000 is the type of TV you can get at any store and the high-end starts with Runco projectors worth more than most people's cars.

I realize this is not the thread for this, but if you can point me in a direction where $1000 gets a good speaker system, that would be grand.

(Pun intended).

Reviews on Memento are coming in. Compression artifacts abound, and all the amazing extras from the SE DVD are gone.

Man, that Sony train just keeps on running over their own format. Somebody should tell them to stop putting film masters on the train tracks.

I'm sorry, I should've said that HDTV has existed without a viable pre-recorded playback format. This seems of little concern to you, but for those who want to be able to own and playback movies of their choice in HD, it's important. And I'm not sure why you assume the video quality will be fine, while not assuming the same about the audio.

Which was the crux of your argument, that technically speaking the HD disc formats don't offer much. So obviously other features come into play, just as it did with DVD.

There's a problem there. You have three apples and one orange.

Well, there's the possiblity of better compression algorithms and quality. But really, people are getting a HD disc player for reasons other than video quality. However, when comparing disc formats, video quality can and should come into play.

Well, that's your opinion. However, if others want to argue about video quality, that's there preogative. And if they're aguing about which format will "win," taking into account J6P makes sense.

I never said anything about HT being a nich product or not.

Nothing's wrong with you wanting it. Your post wasn't about what you wanted, but rather about you wondering why other people weren't wanting what you did. My post was an attempt to give you an answer, not an attack of your personal preferences.

The studios are releasing titles they've already had trensfers for, perhaps for years. the HD video master is already on hand, since it was made for the last DVD release, and so was the 5.1 mix. For 7.1, they'd have to sit down and make a new mix exclusively for the new formats. I'm not saying they won't eventually do it, I'm guessing though that it's probably not a priority at the moment.

I can't afford to. I don't own either of the HD disc formats yet either, because of cost. I do own a HDTV, but only because I got an extremely good deal, and at 26", it's bigger than my last TV.

But it's not about me, it's about you not understanding why is everyone going on about video quality and not audio. The blunt answer is because you're in the minority when it comes to concern about audio over video.

Hary Potter 4 has been announced for HD DVD with artwork and specs (no official date yet). Link here.

According to the specs we have a 157 minute movie which has:

• Lossless TrueHD 5.1 soundtrack
• 3 DD+ 5.1 soundtracks
• In-Movie-Experience (IME) feature

Additional Features: Additional scenes, Conversations with the cast, Preparing for the Yule Ball, Reflections on the fourth film, Meet the Champions, Harry vs. the Horntail: the first task, In Too Deep: the second task, The Maze: the third task, He who must not be named, Harry Potter timeline, Theatrical trailer.

So much for HD DVDs space issue...

No details on the BD version yet, but you can certainly scratch ALL of the Additional Features and the Dolby TrueHD 5.1 track. Add some noise and artifacts and you may fit the whole movie on one BD disc.

I can't wait for this disc to hit!

Eventually prices will go down and they will probably be throwing the extras on a second disc anyway, leaving more space on the movie disc. Remember they want to migrate to HD extras after awhile.

BTW, it was hinted that VC1 is already down to 12 mbps, achieving transparency to the master.

Widescreen Review just sent out their e-mail newsletter containing a conversation with Joe Kane and others about HD-DVD vs. Blu-ray. Interesting reading that is not kind to Sony and Blu-ray. Some of their observations include the following:

Blu-ray’s problem with picture quality comes from using the now-outdated MPEG-2 codec.

The firmware update for the Samsung player to fix the “filter” problem on the Genesis chip will not be available until September via a download you will burn to a CD, but this update fix will not solve the image problems created by MPEG-2.

Don’t expect 50-GB Blu-ray releases anytime soon.

Part of the delay in the release of other Blu-ray players is that they don’t support the VC-1 codec, which Blu-ray will need to fix its PQ problems. Disney is pushing to release Blu-ray discs using VC-1.

Blu-ray players do not support the newer audio codecs (Dolby Digital Plus, DTS-HD, TrueHD and DTS HD).

Blu-ray is currently only using PCM at 16 bit, 48 kHz. Warner Bros. Blu-ray discs have DD+ but there is not yet a player that will decode it.

The Toshiba outputs the incorrect color space for the HDMI connection (ITU-R BT. 609 (SD) vs. 709 (HD)) while the Samsung does it right.

Overall, Sony has thus far promised too much and delivered too little.

That's not true, if I recall the Industry Insider thread on AVS. Blu-Ray players do support the VC-1 codec. If Warner ported over an HD-DVD movie into Blu-Ray, it would be AOK with the VC-1.

The players support it.

For whatever, reason, the studios/Sony doesn't want to support the use of VC-1 on software titles. If a VC-1 movie existed today, you could play it on your Blu-Ray player.

Actually...that's not entirely accurate. Apparently there's speculation about the Panasonic. They've already addressed it on AVS and specifically mentioned by Joe in this article.

First bit of advice: Don't look at Runco projectors. They are not necessarily better than others, and have many repairs.

SVS makes a 5.1 system that would surprise anyone. I've considered selling my speakers and buying theirs just to save some space and money.

Ascend Acoustics is very popular. You can get a system for under a grand. They are resellers for the excellent HSU subs, one of the few that can compete with SVS.

AV123/Rocket is another company that makes incredible speakers for the price.

Thanks! :up: :up:

"Also today, Disney CEO Bob Iger let it be known that his studio has no plans to release major A-list titles like Cars and Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Man's Chest on Blu-ray Disc format this year. They're apparently waiting for greater market penetration for the format down the line to release their bigger titles. We think that's a bit of a mistake. If either of these formats is going to take off, someone is going to have to start releasing some really serious eye-candy, box-office powerhouse and critically acclaimed titles. Dinosaur and Eight Below are all fine and dandy, but I can't think of many early adopters who are just dying to watch either of them, even in HD. How about Kill Bill? Armageddon? An Oscar flick like The English Patient? Something with a little more appeal to the folks who are actually BUYING these discs right now. Anyway, just our take."

http://www.thedigitalbits.com/#mytwocents

I completely disagree with TDB. I DONT want BD releasing anything big right now. Their releases are lackluster due to improper encoding and space limitations.

Some audio fun
 

I don't know how I missed this particular document before. It answers a couple questions I had, and many I didn't know I had, about Dolby's 2 new codecs.

1st, something that I was wondering about and had claimed without proof previously: Dolby TrueHD is essentially the same as DVD-Audio, just a slight evolution. It does use MLP, but adds more channel capability. Really, storage space and a bus (HDMI) that could handle the bandwidth were the only reasons DVD-A was only 5.1. Note that "extensions" simply means DD compatibility and more channels, if you read more of the paper. DVD-A did not have built-in DD downrezzing, they had to include DD tracks separately on the discs.
Next, actual details of DD+ (E-AC-3), also just an evolution of DD (AC-3). Nothing spectacular here, other than more channels and better compression. Again, space on disc and HDMI makes it easier. The paper goes on and on about its backward compatibility with DD, that seems to be where they spent the most time. Anyone thrilled with the sound is just appreciating better DACs or better work in-studio, not an inherently better system than what DVD offered. So congrats to Toshiba once again on better than expected hardware. (now, let's see them finish it off with full compatibility)
Now it gets fun. It seems DD+ on HDDVD and BD are different. This is in reference to MPEG2, which we will never see it on HDDVD I'm guessing, due to their [HDDVD creators] own built-in limitations. The other compression schemes can offer far better specs, and I don't just mean storage space. I think VC-1 is the first ever Microsoft product I actually like.
My unanswered question is still....Why are BD releases coming out with DD when DD+ is essentially the same, yet more efficient? All the discussion about space constraints (like in the comparisons of the few releases on both BD & HDDVD) is inherently incorrect since DD+ offers a smaller footprint if they choose. BD holds the audio separately from video, even in the crappy MPEG2 they are currently using; they can do any bitrate, any compression, whatever, at least more easily than HDDVD. I'm assuming this is all another result of that shitty MPEG2 encoder they use, but I haven't researched that, yet.

And, of course, why are they using PCM instead of TrueHD for lossless? Again, space considerations would be easier with the more compact format, which I believe is TrueHD.

Yeah, the current encoder is probably going to make ALL of these discs worth an update. TDB is correct from a marketing standpoint for the timing, but they (Disney or whomever) definitely should only do this if they can get a real encoder.

Is Sony still insisting on encoding all movies themselves?

I don't know where it is done. I seem to remember speculation about that. But the software is the important thing. None of this is done at actual Sony (studio, not hardware) or Warner places, right? Rather, at shops that specialize in transferring to disc?

I LOVE my NHT Super one's which are pretty well regarded. Made when some prominent guy there was still running things supposedly. I have 5 and a NHT center and an AR sub. Came out to over a grand but kicks ass for what it is. On Ebay now super ones are pretty reasonable second hand...



http://cgi.ebay.com/NHT-SUPER-ONE-BO...QQcmdZViewItem

Actually, yes, it is. AFAIK, they insisted that they do everything. I could be wrong so someone is free to prove it.

I couldn't agree more! Time and time again when someone wants to see my system they look up and are impressed by the 94" screen. Unless I know them really well and what they would like to see, I put a DVD on of Eric Clapton. Awesome sound. After about a minute of checking out the great pic they start looking around at the speakers. Almost without exception they start talking about the audio.

The pic may "get you in the door" but IMHO it is the sound that keeps you there and really draws you in. I love it when watching a movie and someone jumps a little because of a loud noise coming from behind them.

We should probably make a poll. As I said before, I have a pretty crappy system (small Yamaha satellites & HK receiver) but when I demo'd HD-DVD to my friend he said he didn't notice any change with the picture but the sound was fantastic.

:shrug:

Well I would argue that having a H/K HT Receiver automatically eliminates you from the "crappy system club".

Good company for receivers, I wouldn't call it crappy, either. Once/if you get the upgrade bug, do the speakers first. Yamaha is much better at receivers and musical instruments and pro equipment than speakers, don't know why. You'd think they'd be great at it if they only spent some time on speakers. Maybe they don't.

First time I fired up surround sound was a Yamaha Pro Logic receiver, Polk sub/sat speakers in front, and my first crappy tower speakers in the rear, from a Magnavox stereo I think. Maybe 1989/90. Played Back to the Future 2 or 3, and the lightning strike (it's in both films) zapped through the room and scared the shit out of the dog, didn't see her for hours afterwards. I was hooked, although I didn't upgrade much until just a couple years ago.