Strange Audio Problem with HD-D1 (HD-DVD) Player
 

I have my HD-D1 hooked up via the multi-channel (analog) connections and everything on SD-DVDs sounds great. Now when I play an HD-DVD the Sub is extremely low. I tried to adjust the setting within the player (audio setup) and this did nothing. Anyone else having this problem?

Thanks!

I did notice this problem when I first hooked up the player to my parents Sony receiver. I only had it hooked up for a day, so I didn't bother investigating it. However, when I went home and hooked it up to my Onkyo the LFE was perfectly fine. In fact, it was insane, I had to turn down my sub a few db's.

Not sure what the problem could be, as the settings on my HD-D1 were exactly the same on both receivers.

Could it possible be that you played either Last Samurai, Phantom of the Opera or Million Dollar Baby HD-DVDs? These three have a little problem the the mastering, so the reference volume is very low, which have created some low signal to the subwoofer, when turned up.

The analog outputs on these HD DVD players have the LFE low by around 10dB. You'll need to adjust your receiver to compensate (most of 'em will let you keep the LFE higher for just the six-channel input).

Ditto.

And I have the Onkyo too ;)

I didn't know my sub could even hit as hard as it could, until last night! Good thing my neighbors weren't home. There were a few scenes in Riddick that had my windows shaking.

As to the people who have low LFE, try what Adam suggested, cranking up your Sub. I'm not sure why the LFE output is differing between receivers, but maybe it will be yet another thing that can be fixed through a firmware update.

It is pretty peculiar though, same player and same disc. The only difference for me was, initially it was hooked up direct through HDMI and analog cables for sound, which was the setup that had low LFE. My other setup was with an HDMI->DVI cable and analog cables for sound.

I haven't noticed this, but my sub has its own dials on it for setting the output. I always adjust it depending on the source I'm listening to.

This happens on all of my HD-DVDs whereas all of my SD-DVD are perfect including the sub range, I am using the Pioneer Elite 74Txvi receiver.

Pioneer Elite 74Txvi

Front View

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pi..._Front_150.jpg


Back View

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pi...i_Rear_150.jpg

Thank god you posted those pics. we'd have been lost without them ;)
Kobra, your receiver is biggest...though I'm sure Spiky will now post with a pic of his.

I've actually noticed the opposite sort of problem.

I'm using the optical out feedind a Pioneer VSX-D812 receiver (using pre-outs) into an ATI-1505 amp. On SD-DVD, the volume is set to appx -18dB, but on HD-DVD with the same setup, -18dB causes the peak indicators on the ATI to flash on high volume scenes (like the launch scene on Apollo 13 -- all channels peaking). For Apollo 13, -24dB is right to avoid clipping/peaking on the amp. Also the sub (self powered) has to be turned down to about 30% volume (on SD-DVD it was about 60%)... it actually sounded like it bottomed out the sub once before I turned the output down.

I don't think anything is "wrong", though... I'm assuming the dynamic range is greater on the HD-DVD track. Even at -24dB, I'm seeing dB levels peaking into the 105-110dB range on the Apollo 13 launch scene.

On Chornicles of Riddick, -21dB is about right. I was able to get a momentary peak on the center channel at -18dB on one scene of CoR, but nothing on -21 dB.

The speakers are hard to drive (Martin Logan SL3/Arius/Theater center). Nominal impedance 4 ohms (minimum 1.5 ohms).

I've never seen this amp peak on any source-- DVD or CD -- ever. I'm pretty sure the dynamic range is greater on the HD-DVD and this is causing this... anyone have any other ideas?

I called Pioneer on this and the tech support guy I talked too was only interested in talking about Blu-Ray and not my problem. He told me the Blu-Ray player will be able to pass all new audio formats via the HDMI. Is this even true? I had the understanding that this was not the case. Anyways needless to say Pioneer was no help. He kept putting the blame on Toshiba.

Awmurray,

I just finnished with Chornicles of Riddick and the same problem. I had my Pioneer set at -4 db in order to have good range with my sub.

Kobra, that's fucked up. I hope Pioneer isn't becoming the new Sony. That would be unfortunate.

No, he was wrong. No HDMI 1.3 = no passing HD-audio via HDMI.

Do you use the analog outputs for DVD, or just HDDVD? It's very weird that so many people have opposing issues with the same player.

And my receiver is no bigger, Freak. :) awmurray wins the best amp setup in this thread.

But I'm sure you know how to work it much better than he does. ;)

Spiky,

I am using the analog outputs for both SD-DVD and HD-DVD.

Man, there have been so many bizarre audio issues. It would be fun just to buy one and try it out in various setups. If I had extra time and money to do so.

There was an issue in every single SACD player at first where the LFE channel was at least 10db low. I wonder if something similar crept into the A1. It's related to the issues that are inherent in how LFE is handled in Dolby, it is recorded low, then boosted 10db in decoding. Perhaps the A1 is not adjusting this 10db with the downconverted DD from the DD+ encoding. Whereas the standard DVDs are handled properly.

The fix (that I still have to use with SACD) is to use the digital output for DVD and the analog for the newer stuff. With the analog output set with LFE bumped 10db. This makes both work properly without any fuss. Of course, my Onkyo receiver is about as good at DD/DTS decoding as my Denon player, so I didn't care which did the decoding.

I wonder if flashburn hooked it up differently when he tried 2 different receivers. Or tried DVD in one and HDDVD in the other?

I'm using optical out for everything DVD and HD-DVD (have not tried CD yet).

The receiver is saying it is getting a DTS signal (that's expected because DD+ is downconverted to 1.5 Mbps DTS, right?).

So, why do you think the amp is peaking? Is it because of a greater dynamic range on the HD-DVD soundtrack? A greater dynamic range causing the amp to work harder to power the hard-to-drive Logans (a 4 ohm nominal impedance load).

I don't think it is necessarily a problem if that is the case. Anyway, the solution has been to set the volume to -23dB on Apollo 13 and -21 dB on CoR. That avoids the amp peaks.

The question is, is this "normal" for my setup given the 4 ohm load and the assumed greater dynamic range of HD-DVD? In this case, I could use a bigger amp. Note that DVDs played on this same setup can be turned up to -16 dB with no peaking. Note also that the volume is "loud enough" with the HD-DVD soundtrack... it's just that I'm not used to peaking this amp.

Or, is this some strange audio issue that may be resolved in a later player/firmware update?

Again, I don't consider it a problem per-se, just curious why it is different than DVD vs. HD-DVD. If it stays this way for later gen players, I may want to get a bigger amp.

Good god, I think I'm gonna have to turn in my "hi-fi elite" membership card after seeing the pics of that Pioneer amp, and thinking of the little Onkyo HTIB amp I have at home. This board is turning into AVSforums!!! :)

Well, the range itself shouldn't do anything. It's probably the volume level as set on the discs. It's well known already that the first HDDVDs were actually set very low. Maybe as a rule they will actually be higher than DVD. This can change from one to the other. LOTR on DVD had some ridiculously loud settings, at least FOTR. I have to set that at 12-15db below what I use for most DVDs.

You're getting higher volume, right? I mean, it's peaking the amp and you are getting higher volume to your ears at your standard -16 setting?

OK guys I just got off the phone with Toshiba and was informed that they are aware of the Analog problem. They are currently NOT working on a fix...WTF is up with that. I spoke to the (of you want to call him) tech support and asked very dumb questions like: are you using the red and white cables? I had to tell him over and over it was multi-channel I was having a problem with. He told me to call back in 6 months to see if there is a fix. I have to wait 6 months to find out if they correct the problem. I asked if it turns out to be a hardware problem will they replace my D1. He said if it is still under warranty they will. So my guess is they will wait at least a year to correct the problem. This way they do not need to replace any of the current players. Here is the phone number I called 1-800-618-4444. WE NEED EVERYONE TO CALL WHO IS HAVING A PROBLEM!!

I'm confused. Why can't you just turn up your sub again?

Nope, it was hooked up EXACTLY the same, and I noticed the vastly different LFE levels on both with the same discs.

I do recall after I set it up with my home theatre that I changed some of the speaker settings in the Toshiba player, the distances to be exact. Also, I have the speaker sizes set to "Large", however I don't remember if that was the default setting or not.

Flash, I kept mine at the default and my sub is still rumbling. I've had to turn it down, generally.

Just set your receiver to boost the LFE when (and only when) you use the six-channel analog inputs. Any good receiver will let you do this, it only takes a minute to set, and all of your aggravation will be over. :)