PS3 and HDMI problems
#1
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PS3 and HDMI problems
This was posted in the game forum, but I thought it would be good to post it here as well. Undoubtedly it will stimulate some good conversation.
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I agree with that, but DVD to BR (or HD-DVD) is not nearly the leap that DVD was from VHS. It is much more similar to the leap from CD to SACD, with the exception that most of us are better at noticing differences visually rather than audibly. If BR were as big a leap from DVD as DVD was from VHS, then I think Sony would be in great shape. But if the PS3 doesn't have the little things that actually make HD great, it won't matter as much. Here is an example, but hopefully they get it figured out.
From http://www.tgdaily.com/2006/03/24/gdc2006_ps3_no_hdmi/
Again, hopefully it gets worked out. I find it unbelievable that they would put in an HDMI that doesn't work with all the HDMI out there today....even on their own tvs.
All I'm saying is that the BR PS3 won't have the same difference from DVD as DVD did from VHS. And if it is a relatively poor BR movie player, I don't think it will help them much with beating out HD-DVD, which is bad for us all as we will have to wait a long time for the format war to end.
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Originally Posted by Jimmy 345
Not true. The Playstation 2 may have been a pretty lousy DVD player but it was still far better then a VCR and got a lot of people to switch over.
San Jose (CA) - Last week, Sony announced to launch its Playstation 3 in November and blamed the delay on technical problems such as the ongoing work to finalize Blu-ray's copy protection technology AACS. At GDC we got a glimpse how far the PS3 may be still away from production, as Sony was not able to run the console through HDMI at 1080p resolution.
One of the reasons to buy an Xbox 360 or an upcoming Playstation 3 is the fact that Microsoft and Sony promise the beginning of a high definition gaming era - a new stage for gaming that will bringer higher-quality audio and video to the screen. On 15 March, Sony conceded that it was forced to delay the launch of its contender because a series of technology delays. The console has been touring the country for more than a year - without being actually demonstrated in detail - and it was our expectation that we will see at GDC a version that would come close to a production unit - as Sony will have to start mass-producing the console in late summer.
In fact, Sony had a few consoles on display at GDC, which were demonstrating video and audio demos. But surprisingly, these boxes were showing hardly any of the PS3's expected capability, including a screen feed that was not delivered through the HDMI interface, but through Sony's "AV MULTI OUT" connector,which has S-Video and component analog ports.
Two different PS3 prototypes were used in the demos; one was a slimmer box with dual HDMI outputs, while the other was a PC case with a video card in the back. Both devices were connected to identical Sony model television sets, which had HDMI ports.
All graphics demos were played on the slim boxes, while the audio demos were played on the larger PC-sized boxes. The graphics demo units were connected to the televisions via Sony's AV Multi-Out connector (black cable in photo), which is an analog connector that can split into S-Video or RCA connectors. The two HDMI ports right below the AV Multi-Out port were unused.
Of course, we were interested in why Sony did not run the units with HDMI. There may be an obvious explanation, but we received some surprising answers from Sony's staff. First, we were told that it isn't easy to get a hold of HDMI-equipped TVs. We found this to be very strange, because after all we were at the Sony booth and all the television sets had HDMI inputs. On the second try, we were told that the reason for not using HDMI was that Sony did not have any HDMI cables and that "they are difficult to find". Matt Butrovich, a former intern with Tom's Hardware and who walked the show floor with us, offered the staff to use one of the HDMI cables he actually had in his car and connect the PS3 with the TVs. Sony officials turned down the offer and we were left without seeing the demos in HD. ( )
Somehow we feel that there was another reason for not showing the PS3 with HDMI. In fact, the explanation could be as simple as the PS3's HDMI wasn't compatible with the HDMI spec integrated in the TVs. Recently it was announced that the PS3 will use HDMI 1.3, which will use an expansion of the audio channels and offer Dolby TrueHD as well as DTS-HD. Current TVs generally use HDMI 1.1, which do not support these extensions and create significant audio noise when connected to a HDMI 1.3 device.
In the end, we do not know the real reason of avoiding HDMI in the GDC demonstrations. But it certainly highlighted that Sony has still work to do - not only to finalize the AACS spec, but also to accelerate the availability to HDMI 1.3 and to educate customers that they only can run HD video and audio if they have a HDMI 1.3 capable TV.
One of the reasons to buy an Xbox 360 or an upcoming Playstation 3 is the fact that Microsoft and Sony promise the beginning of a high definition gaming era - a new stage for gaming that will bringer higher-quality audio and video to the screen. On 15 March, Sony conceded that it was forced to delay the launch of its contender because a series of technology delays. The console has been touring the country for more than a year - without being actually demonstrated in detail - and it was our expectation that we will see at GDC a version that would come close to a production unit - as Sony will have to start mass-producing the console in late summer.
In fact, Sony had a few consoles on display at GDC, which were demonstrating video and audio demos. But surprisingly, these boxes were showing hardly any of the PS3's expected capability, including a screen feed that was not delivered through the HDMI interface, but through Sony's "AV MULTI OUT" connector,which has S-Video and component analog ports.
Two different PS3 prototypes were used in the demos; one was a slimmer box with dual HDMI outputs, while the other was a PC case with a video card in the back. Both devices were connected to identical Sony model television sets, which had HDMI ports.
All graphics demos were played on the slim boxes, while the audio demos were played on the larger PC-sized boxes. The graphics demo units were connected to the televisions via Sony's AV Multi-Out connector (black cable in photo), which is an analog connector that can split into S-Video or RCA connectors. The two HDMI ports right below the AV Multi-Out port were unused.
Of course, we were interested in why Sony did not run the units with HDMI. There may be an obvious explanation, but we received some surprising answers from Sony's staff. First, we were told that it isn't easy to get a hold of HDMI-equipped TVs. We found this to be very strange, because after all we were at the Sony booth and all the television sets had HDMI inputs. On the second try, we were told that the reason for not using HDMI was that Sony did not have any HDMI cables and that "they are difficult to find". Matt Butrovich, a former intern with Tom's Hardware and who walked the show floor with us, offered the staff to use one of the HDMI cables he actually had in his car and connect the PS3 with the TVs. Sony officials turned down the offer and we were left without seeing the demos in HD. ( )
Somehow we feel that there was another reason for not showing the PS3 with HDMI. In fact, the explanation could be as simple as the PS3's HDMI wasn't compatible with the HDMI spec integrated in the TVs. Recently it was announced that the PS3 will use HDMI 1.3, which will use an expansion of the audio channels and offer Dolby TrueHD as well as DTS-HD. Current TVs generally use HDMI 1.1, which do not support these extensions and create significant audio noise when connected to a HDMI 1.3 device.
In the end, we do not know the real reason of avoiding HDMI in the GDC demonstrations. But it certainly highlighted that Sony has still work to do - not only to finalize the AACS spec, but also to accelerate the availability to HDMI 1.3 and to educate customers that they only can run HD video and audio if they have a HDMI 1.3 capable TV.
Again, hopefully it gets worked out. I find it unbelievable that they would put in an HDMI that doesn't work with all the HDMI out there today....even on their own tvs.
All I'm saying is that the BR PS3 won't have the same difference from DVD as DVD did from VHS. And if it is a relatively poor BR movie player, I don't think it will help them much with beating out HD-DVD, which is bad for us all as we will have to wait a long time for the format war to end.
#3
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Originally Posted by digitalfreaknyc
Sorry...all i could do was read this and laugh.
#4
Current TVs generally use HDMI 1.1, which do not support these extensions and create significant audio noise when connected to a HDMI 1.3 device.
I take it that there are no component outs planned (so that HDMI is the only way to HD resolutions)?
#5
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Originally Posted by digitalfreaknyc
Sorry...all i could do was read this and laugh.
Not, why do you have me confused...I know that. I mean, why did it make you laugh?
#6
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Originally Posted by mbs
I take it that there are no component outs planned (so that HDMI is the only way to HD resolutions)?
but through Sony's "AV MULTI OUT" connector,which has S-Video and component analog ports.
That is just what I think I understand from a poor memory on the subject, and someone with better knowledge should definately confirm or correct that.
#7
DVD Talk Gold Edition
Heh, TGDaily strikes again! Is there any story they won't print? I remember one of their pieces which quoted a post on AVS as a source, so watch what you type on here, you could be unwittingly writing their next article!
HDMI 1.3 (or 2.0, I forget if they've renamed it yet) is backwards compatible with its earlier versions, so this should be a non issue. If you're an audio buff then you should probably be happy (though I'm dubious Sony will have time to add this new standard of connector) since HDMI 1.3 is required to pass the full range of the newer audio codecs - Dolby TrueHD, DTS HD and the rest. ITC (Image Constraint Token) has not been set on any HD DVD released so far, though it's believed both Warners and Universal will turn this feature on at some point, downrezing any signal passed through an analogue connection (such as component or scart). I think they're waiting to hook early adoptors into the new HD discs before fulfilling their CP plans in this way.
HDMI 1.3 (or 2.0, I forget if they've renamed it yet) is backwards compatible with its earlier versions, so this should be a non issue. If you're an audio buff then you should probably be happy (though I'm dubious Sony will have time to add this new standard of connector) since HDMI 1.3 is required to pass the full range of the newer audio codecs - Dolby TrueHD, DTS HD and the rest. ITC (Image Constraint Token) has not been set on any HD DVD released so far, though it's believed both Warners and Universal will turn this feature on at some point, downrezing any signal passed through an analogue connection (such as component or scart). I think they're waiting to hook early adoptors into the new HD discs before fulfilling their CP plans in this way.
#8
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Sony has not finalized the hardware. I don't think its fair to criticize the PS3 and its capabilities based on the early prototypes Sony is showing right now.
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Originally Posted by darkside
Sony has not finalized the hardware. I don't think its fair to criticize the PS3 and its capabilities based on the early prototypes Sony is showing right now.
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Originally Posted by dvd182
Nice post, especially coming from someone who consistently bitches about "Blu-ray fanboys" derailing threads
It's funny because this was BR's war to lose. And thus far, there's not a damn positive thing about it.
#12
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Originally Posted by darkside
Sony has not finalized the hardware. I don't think its fair to criticize the PS3 and its capabilities based on the early prototypes Sony is showing right now.
#14
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Originally Posted by Grubert
Isn't that article from March? (rhetorical question)
I looked for newer stuff and didn't find it. I am skeptical of the article, but I am also a little skeptical of not being able to find much more info.
#15
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Originally Posted by raven56706
Sorry but 90% of the HD owners dont own a 1080p tv....... I think Blu ray will lose the battle to the underdog.
Sony's other partners in BR are not dumb enough to limit BR's output to only HDMI.
I see this "news" as more of a concern on how well BR is finalized, not how good BR is or isn't. As far as I'm concerned, both formats are exactly the same, technically.
#16
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BR will work fine over component and as far as I know they are not using the ICT on any of their BR releases that have been announced so far. No advantage for HD DVD there.
#18
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HD DVD has 1080p output in it's spec, it's just that the early Tosh and it's clones don't handle this output resolution.
The ICT issue is an interesting one: there could be quite a few irate customers if Warners switch this on for their more popular titles.
The ICT issue is an interesting one: there could be quite a few irate customers if Warners switch this on for their more popular titles.
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Originally Posted by Burnt Thru
HD DVD has 1080p output in it's spec, it's just that the early Tosh and it's clones don't handle this output resolution.
1. Slow load time
2. HDMI handshake issue
3. BTB via HDMI
4. Clipping via HDMI
5. 1080p support
6. Full Dolby TruHD (if possible)
With that list fixed, this player would be excellent. As for now, the pq/aq is good, but these things are annoyances.
#23
Originally Posted by raven56706
actually not the case... HDMi problems is that you wont get the 1080p from the HDMI.... and the tvs now adays dont have 1080p....
hd-dvd is 1080i through hdmi......
hd-dvd is 1080i through hdmi......
1. Today's HDMI (v. 1.1) can indeed do 1080p. It cannot do HD-sound, however.
2. There are indeed 1080p sets on the market.
3. All HD-DVD discs are 1080p, there just isn't a 1080p player (yet).
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Originally Posted by mbs
You seem to be wrong on all accounts:
1. Today's HDMI (v. 1.1) can indeed do 1080p. It cannot do HD-sound, however.
2. There are indeed 1080p sets on the market.
3. All HD-DVD discs are 1080p, there just isn't a 1080p player (yet).
1. Today's HDMI (v. 1.1) can indeed do 1080p. It cannot do HD-sound, however.
2. There are indeed 1080p sets on the market.
3. All HD-DVD discs are 1080p, there just isn't a 1080p player (yet).
1)Todays HDMI yes but on the westinghouse tvs that are out, every other tv that is bought from maybe december can do it... but how about the early HDMi people.... they cant do it..
2)yes but the majority are early hdtv buyers... just now the 1080p tvs are coming out.... tell me who is going to change their HDTV to get the PS3
3) HD_DVD players are 1080i and not 1080p...HD DVD is a true high-definition format offering video at 1080i or 720p resolution
Last edited by raven56706; 05-09-06 at 07:18 AM.