With UMD, it seems like they're still making the same mistakes.

Sure, but Blu Ray is completely different. UMD is another format very limited in where it can be used and even more restricted than most by only working on a single piece of hardware.

Blu Ray is going to be supported by a majority of hardware companies and every single studio but Universal. That is a big switch from how Sony usually does their technology. Starting with mostly themselves and hoping others will want to come aboard. This is how Panasonic beat them with Secure digital since most companies did not want to come aboard with memory stick and Panasonic got everyone on board with them early.

This time around they are reversing things. They are getting everyone on board before they launch the product and not just hoping the format takes off and then atracts supporters.

I agree the $1000 players are an issue, but that is really the norm for a new technology. How Toshiba is pulling off $500 players I don't know, but I would bet someone in the HD DVD group is eating a loss on them to try and gain an early advantage.

They had everyone's support when they were going to have 3 million PS3s in homes in the Spring. That gave them a huge edge. If HD-DVD comes out 6 months before the PS3, and it is getting sales, I would expect most every company that is not owned by Sony to go where the money is. The idea of 3 million units in homes is what brought the support, and right now that is floundering a little.

Sony has been pretty smart this time around with Blu Ray though and I think they will avoid all their previous mistakes with Beta, minidisc, memory stick, etc.

I think Toshiba has been pretty good with thier reputation.They made good products.
Even helping Apple with thier HDD for Ipod to take out Walkman.
For them batling Toshiba is really a tough choice.Anyway NEC is also behind Toshiba so that another hi tech company so toshiba got itself covered in the consumer and the IT section also.

BZZZT.

This is a new revisionist history kind of thing I read a lot. DVD players could be had for a LOT less than $300 at the time of Ps2's launch. It was a nice extra at the time, since many of us wanted the system for games, and it played back DVDs. Maybe quality DVD players were still in the neighborhood of $300, but the PS2 is hardly a quality player.

My first DVD player was an LG (I forget the exact model) and it cost £180. That was a bottom of the line player at the time and it could only play DVDs and CDs. It broke about a year later just outside of the warrently period. PS2 came out in the UK at £299.99 and had dropped to £199.99 at the time I was looking for a new player. I had my eyes on a PS2 anyway (for the Final Fantasy games) so rather than going for another bottom of the line DVD player AND a PS2, I just bought the PS2 which (considering it's made for playing games for prolonged periods of time) has never broken down on me and filled the period while I was waiting for decent quality DVD player to come down in price over here.

It doesn't mean the same thing is going to happen again with Blu-ray. I still think people will buy a PS3 because of the name and the games.

Its funny how on one forum, you will read a statement like this, then on another forum it will be the complete opposite. I don't think there is an industry leader anymore, but just a whole lot of choices.

Of course, if you ask J6P, he will say Sony is the best. Don't believe me, check out this recent study which puts Sony 3rd in brand trust, and Toshiba 18th. Don't believe it represents J6P? They put Bose first. No self respecting person who reads up on audio/video stuff would ever buy Bose or trust a single word they say. Only J6P would.

Sony probably believes they can ride this brand trust all the way to the bank with the higher price of their player. Toshiba may be cutting their price to combat a bad public image. Or maybe that survey is crap. Only time will tell.

I think your reliance on that study is not very logical. They surveyed households around the nation. At last check, Nintendo doesn't make products outside of video games. Sony makes TVs and DVD Players while Microsoft makes computer stuff. I'd be willing to bet there were alot of homes that don't even know what a Playstation 2 is, but still gave Sony high marks based on their knowledge of other products.

BTW, you make fun of Bose and J6P, but if you read any of the Home Theater Forums around, you'd also see that most people into audio/video say the exact same thing about Sony junk. :lol:

I read AVS Forum. You come accross the occasional Sony hater, but not often.

Don't know which threads you're reading, Josh. Sony's audio stuff is much maligned on the web. Their TVs are very good, just mostly overpriced. Frankly, neither of these companies (Sony, Tosh) has an iota of trust from me.

At this point, for BD/HD-DVD, I'm still waiting on Denon. Sony, Tosh, Samsung....c'mon, give me a real company with a release announcement. Pioneer maybe, but their track record on DVD is very mediocre.

To Deus:
Minidisc did excellent in Japan and decent in Europe. It failed repeatedly in the USA. Apparently we're all idiots. Cassette and CDR both beat it out. And now MP3 has made sure it is never coming back. So, with most people on this forum being in the US, you'll find a different outlook than at home.

Another nail in the coffin of Blu-Ray...

I actually believe that is Sony's thinking. They seem to think that they can do no wrong, but have on several occasions. I can most definately see the PS3 and BR being a huge success for Sony. But I can also see the opposite.

And I don't really think Toshiba has a bad public image, they simply don't have the general name recognition of Sony. Actually, the first DVD player I bought was a Toshiba, and it still works better than any others I have bought. Okay, that has nothing to do with this, but it got me thinking....and my 32" tv is a Toshiba as well. :lol: Wish it had more than 1 S-video input, but it is pretty old.

You don't like Sony? Buy Panasonic. Buy Philips. Buy Pioneer. Buy Samsung.

You don't like Toshiba? Tough.

You want a HD-DVD player? Buy a Toshiba.

You want a BR player? Tough.

*Looks at calendar*

You want an HD-DVD player? Tough.

You want a BR player? Tough.

This is getting just a tad-bit rediculous. There is only one choice for HD-DVD and many for Blu-Ray. Both of which you can't buy today. Toshiba isn't impressing me when they claim their new laptop may have "slow down" issues playing back HD-DVD, so I'm eager to see how these players are reviewed. Blu-Ray has nothing right now, so we can't judge it yet.

You completely missed my point, namely that even if you have vowed not to buy any Sony products, you have a choice. Whereas, if you want a brand other than Toshiba, you simply cannot buy an HD DVD player.

That is exactly my point. Sony used to have a reputation for quality about 10 years ago. Now, they think they can overcharge people just based on brand name recognition. There are many manufacturers that sell quality products at cheaper prices than Sony. That coupled with the fact that most of the HT community is down on Sony shows that name brand only means something when you are ignorant of the facts.

Second to only Sharp in LCD? Check.
Leader in Digital Camera market? Check.

Damn, Sony is slipping ;)

I thought the new Sony Qualia tv's were getting good reviews, and I know the new Sony Projector got great reviews in Home Theater magazine.

I understand that, but my point was that will all change in the future. Do you think Toshiba will be the only HD-DVD player ever made?

Don't move the goalposts, if you don't mind. We're talking about a person deciding on a purchase now, or during this year at most.

How many HD DVD player models have been announced for 2006? From how many brands?

Hence my comment about their TVs being high quality (and price). Actually, the Ruby (the new PJ) is one product that represents the best price on the market. Course, the market is like 3 items, one of the others also being a Sony.

While I wouldn't dispute that, it is because I don't know any better. Do you have links for that? When I was looking at digital cameras, I never even thought about Sony.

I'd highly doubt Sony is a leader in the US digital camera market. Anytime you make people buy your own inferior proprietary format for something, it doesn't bode well.

As for the LCD market, I'd also like to see numbers on that. With the influx of cheap Korean products it's hard to believe there's a market leader at all.

For cameras, Sony makes most of the sensors used by all manufacturers. But Canon has traditionally shipped more digital cameras than anyone else, with Sony and Kodak following. So not sure what Josh is getting at. Unless it changed in the last half year, I haven't seen recent figures.

Actually, Kodak may have overtaken both of them. My memory is fuzzy and I'm having a hard time finding concrete data on the web. Also not sure if news reports mean USA or Worldwide.