Go Back  DVD Talk Forum > DVD Discussions > HD Talk
Reload this Page >

HD/Blu-Ray Talks Break Down :( Blu-Ray wins? [merged]

HD Talk The place to discuss Blu-ray, 4K and all other forms and formats of HD and HDTV.

HD/Blu-Ray Talks Break Down :( Blu-Ray wins? [merged]

Old 05-19-05, 12:22 PM
  #101  
DVD Talk Legend
 
sracer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Prescott Valley, AZ
Posts: 15,380
Received 59 Likes on 37 Posts
Originally Posted by JayHM
No need to wait. Just check out HBO HD.
Not necessarily. The quality of HBO HD depends upon how the signal arrives to your home. Cable, at least in the few areas I've seen, is terrible in providing a high-quality HD signal. Maybe dish access is better. I'm sure that a well-broadcast HD signal is superior to DVD, but with my cable provider, a DVD played on a high-quality progressive scan player looks better than cable HD signal.
Old 05-19-05, 12:25 PM
  #102  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Sonic's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 1999
Posts: 19,353
Received 347 Likes on 247 Posts
Guys im here to report its over. Playstation 3 will take 2006 and beyond. Blu Ray...HD games...fak jaa Toshiba
Old 05-19-05, 12:31 PM
  #103  
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,389
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Josh Hinkle
And you're wrong about them being in their kids rooms. A lot of the game market is the 18-30 year olds, many of whom are single and have their consoles set up in there main TV. Quite a few used the PS2 as a DVD player when it first came out. It saved them from having to drop $200-300 on a DVD player when they could just get the new Playstation and have a new game system and a DVD player for $300.

It will be similar with Blu-ray, and the main point people are making is the studios in a couple years will look and see however many PS3s have been sold, and know that there are at least that many blu-ray players in homes. And it's certain that PS3's alone will outnumber HD-DVD players if they even put them out.
I would split hairs here. The reason that the Ps2 has such market penetration is certainly not from the fickle 18-30 demo. To reach the true mass market it has the majority HAVE to be owned by children. The 18-30's had theirs when they were $250-$300. The reallbig markey came when parents bought them for kids for christmas.

f course the drives in the PS2s are counted towards the total DVD drves, and you are right in saying that Sony will count the BR in every PS3 sold as a BR Drive, but I hardly think it is the truth.
Old 05-19-05, 12:45 PM
  #104  
DVD Talk Special Edition
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Alexandria, VA
Posts: 1,197
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Qui Gon Jim
You could very well be right. BUT I think that way too many people (mostly Sony fanboys) are just assuming that the PS3 will be the dominant machine for the next gen of VG consoles, and that is VERY VERY debatable. MS is going to have a big lead this time, and they are coming off of some very favorable opinions with their target audience. If MS can make Sony look like an also-ran like Sony did to Sega, then there could be a shift.

Of course Sony fanboys can't see past the little PS logos tattoed on their eyeballs to see that the future is not set.
we can't speculate as to which console will win out (i still hope for the revolution to win ), but the only thing we can say for sure right now is that MS's big lead so far only amounts to days.

i don't think people are taking preorders, there's no charting whether the initial rush of 360 purchases will be first adopters, xbox fanatics or sony switchers.

it's a big if. BIG if. IF! it's a big if to think MS can make the dominant console maker look like an also-ran. it can manage it perhaps for a few months before the ps3 hits, but once the ps3 hits, its all up for grabs.

historically, i think building it first does not guarantee you anything. nintendo in the past has shown building it better and building it later can beat out building it first. (NES and SNES. maybe not so with the n64/GC).

but in the end, buy a revolution. because dammit, you can play the original zelda on it. how hot is that?!

oh, on topic, the fact that BRDVDs will play on the PS3 won't mean much. video games aren't exactly estranged to the idea of running off of proprietary media. it's a bonus to be sure, but i doubt the "i dont need a dvd player, i have a ps2" population is very large.
Old 05-19-05, 02:10 PM
  #105  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 592
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
The PS2 was a a lot of people's first DVD player. I remember hearing a sales clerk pitch it that way before Christmas when it came out. "Do you have a DVD player yet? Then PS2 is an even better value. Your son can play games and you can watch movies."

Do not underestimate the effect PS3 would have for Blu-Ray disk sales.

I think it's a huge gamble on Microsoft's part, and while they will probably sell a lot of 360s regardless, I seem to remember Sega rushing out a next-gen console of their own to shore up market share too, only to wind up a gnat on the original Playstation's windshield.
Old 05-19-05, 02:25 PM
  #106  
DVD Talk Special Edition
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Alexandria, VA
Posts: 1,197
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Geist
I seem to remember Sega rushing out a next-gen console of their own to shore up market share too, only to wind up a gnat on the original Playstation's windshield.
poor sega. if they only could've learned how to leverage their brand. nintendo has mario, metroid, zelda and starfox.

sega has sonic, phantasy star, shining force (BEST GAMES EVER!!) and virtua fighter. how it is they could let SF and VF fade off into the sunset, while simultaneously destroying PS and boring us to tears with sonic, i'll never know. heck, even their sports games were supposed to be awesome.


removed request for downloading copyrighted material
Old 05-19-05, 05:38 PM
  #107  
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,389
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Geist
The PS2 was a a lot of people's first DVD player. I remember hearing a sales clerk pitch it that way before Christmas when it came out. "Do you have a DVD player yet? Then PS2 is an even better value. Your son can play games and you can watch movies."

Do not underestimate the effect PS3 would have for Blu-Ray disk sales.

I think it's a huge gamble on Microsoft's part, and while they will probably sell a lot of 360s regardless, I seem to remember Sega rushing out a next-gen console of their own to shore up market share too, only to wind up a gnat on the original Playstation's windshield.
Let me clear something up: I am not saying that XBox will own PS3 or anything like that. Here are my points:
1. PS2 was first to market and is the least powerful machine so being firs can be a huge factor.
2. Most PS2s are hooked up to secondary TVs, not the big HD sets.
3. I am hoping the Nintendo pulls this one out their ass.

oh, on topic, the fact that BRDVDs will play on the PS3 won't mean much. video games aren't exactly estranged to the idea of running off of proprietary media. it's a bonus to be sure, but i doubt the "i dont need a dvd player, i have a ps2" population is very large.
I agree. I am sure that 65-80% of PS2s are used for gaming and not for DVD playback.
Old 05-19-05, 08:11 PM
  #108  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 592
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Qui Gon Jim

I agree. I am sure that 65-80% of PS2s are used for gaming and not for DVD playback.
Right, but the point is that if you already own a PS3 and are buying Blu-Ray disks, chances are you won't be in a hurry to buy an HD-DVD player as well. And if you want to upgrade to HD video and your choices are X-Box 360 + Seperate Player or Playstation 3, the latter choice will save you a lot of money.

No matter what happens, Sony is in a great position, even if they have to play a few months of catch up.
Old 05-19-05, 11:03 PM
  #109  
DVD Talk Legend
 
cultshock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: True North Strong & Free
Posts: 22,930
Received 2,116 Likes on 1,452 Posts
Regarding comments like:
Originally Posted by Geist
The PS2 was a lot of people's first DVD player.
In Japan at least, this was very true. Unlike here, DVDs were not selling very well in Japan until the introduction of the PS2, so that ended up being the first DVD player for many over there. The reason may have been that laserdiscs were a popular format there (unlike here) and when DVDs first came out, many probably thought "LDs are good enough, I don't need a new format right now". But when the PS2 came out, and people bought them to play video games, they knew that it could also play DVDs, so they started buying discs, just because they already had a "player" now anyway (so they didn't have to invest in another player). And DVD sales improved dramatically. Now this is different then what happened here, but with the PS3, a similar situation could happen in both countries this time (just replace LD->DVD with DVD->Blu-Ray). So you can also include me among those that think that by including BR in the PS3, Sony has drastically improved their chances of winning this one. Very smart move.
Old 05-24-05, 10:56 AM
  #110  
DVD Talk Legend
 
LorenzoL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 23,722
Received 460 Likes on 373 Posts
Things are looking grim for a unified format...

Matsushita Chief Says Next-Gen DVD Talks Are Dead
Yoshiko Hara, EE Times, 23-May-2005

An effort to revive deadlocked talks aimed at unifying competing DVD standards has failed, according to the president ofMatsushita Electric.

Kunio Nakamura said last week that the company will not budge from its insistence that a unified spec include a 0.1-mm cover layer. He emphasized that the Blu-ray Disc group's position has not changed and that the ball is now in rival Toshiba's court.

Despite the breakdown of the unification talks on a next-generation DVD format earlier this week, there were signs during the week that a summit meeting involving Matsushita, Sony and Toshiba might revive the talks. Nakamura denied such a meeting is planned.

According to a source close to the Blu-ray camp, the sides decided last weekend to seek a final management decision on whether to pursue unification talks. Neither side would yield, and the decision to end negotiations was announced in meetings earlier this week.

Toshiba first proposed unification talks in early March, according to the source. A test balloon to adopt the HD DVD spec for the ROM format and the Blu-ray spec for recording formats was floated at an industry meeting. At the time, Toshiba seemed to be groping for a compromise that would satisfy both sides.

While nearly all involved in the dispute agree that a unified standard is desirable, neither side appears willing to compromise on key technical points. For example, if 0.1-mm cover layer technology remains a precondition of a unification deal, as Sony and Matsushita insist, Toshiba would gain little and have a major problem persuading HD DVD backers to agree to a unification deal.

Memory Tech Corp., a member of the HD DVD camp, for example, has been focusing on developing HD DVD disk production technologies. A unification deal would present the company a serious disadvantage if the next-generation disk used a 0.1-mm cover layer.

While both sides claimed publicly to be ready to resume talks, observers agreed the unification effort is likely dead. If so, the HD DVD group will then begin making ROM products as early as possible in order to make the format a de facto industry standard for next-generation packaged media.
Link
Old 05-24-05, 11:40 AM
  #111  
DVD Talk Special Edition
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Bluegrass State
Posts: 1,271
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
and guess who will pay the price......
Old 05-24-05, 12:33 PM
  #112  
Retired
 
Join Date: May 1999
Posts: 27,449
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Originally Posted by cajun_junky
and guess who will pay the price......
Early adopter tech geek/videophiles who care more about having the newest tech and the absolute best a/v quality rather than just enjoying film?

Seriously, there's no other reason to not sit back, wait for an HD format to win out, and enjoy films on DVD until then.

Last edited by Josh Hinkle; 05-24-05 at 12:51 PM.
Old 05-24-05, 12:50 PM
  #113  
DVD Talk Gold Edition
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: In the Universe.
Posts: 2,923
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
These guys are idiots I tell you. Real idiots.
Old 05-24-05, 01:43 PM
  #114  
DVD Talk Godfather
 
DVD Polizei's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 54,508
Received 289 Likes on 214 Posts
F'em. Oh wait, I already said that.

I seriously think we all should email Toshiba.
Old 05-25-05, 09:04 AM
  #115  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Relocated to Bot-Hell
Posts: 11,819
Received 239 Likes on 175 Posts
Got an email address? Time for some consumer feedback.
Old 05-25-05, 09:16 AM
  #116  
DVD Talk Legend
 
sracer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Prescott Valley, AZ
Posts: 15,380
Received 59 Likes on 37 Posts
Originally Posted by DVD Polizei
F'em. Oh wait, I already said that.
In this situation, you can't say it enough.
Old 05-26-05, 09:53 AM
  #117  
boe
Suspended
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 325
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.j...technologyNews

I think if Sony is smart, they will release the PS3 early - release BR DVD players to Japan and have the studio release a good amount of movies in BR - perhaps all of the ones that have already been released in Superbit should be release in HD and full DTS on BR by November.

The fact is that with 2 layers, BR fits more than HD DVD

If HD DVD wants more storage space it has to go to at least 3 layers and then there would be no savings since it wouldn't be compatable with current manufacturing equipment. But the more layers, the shorter the disc life using current technology. I can't say if the heaping technology they would use will be different or not.

Scratches effect both technogies the same, you haven't scratched into the movie, you've effected the lasers ability to focus on the data beneath the surface as the scratch deflects a clear reading.

Do you really think the studios and manufacturers will charge us any less if they had gone all HD or all BR? The war might actually benefit us as there would be competition between the formats so they will lower prices to try and establish a winner. Frankly I think we could have possibly gained some slightly better technology if there was a unification but I've waited long enough. Bring the battle to the streets! Three years of them trying to create a standard is long enough. I could have hundreds of HD DVDs right now if they hadn't taken so long to decide. Frankly I would care if hundreds of them were in a format that wasn't going to be the winner - it would still be better than the standard definition DVD I have now.

Last edited by boe; 05-26-05 at 12:12 PM.
Old 05-26-05, 02:28 PM
  #118  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 357
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
People have to understand that Sony is a big company that likes to "stretch" the facts. If you go back just to their gaming platform with everything they said would be in their gaming machines and most didn't even surface. I remember the hype of the emotion engine was going to make characters lifelike and all the hype of the PS2 with the chip being hijacked for missle guidance. It's about competion. Without digging myself into getting labeled a Sony hater I don't see how they can really say that the new Playstation will have Blu-Ray. Business wise it makes sense to get everyone thinking that they are going to have Blu-Ray to negate the Microsoft product launching early. I may be wrong but knowing how much new tech equipment cost on launch would anyone really spend that much on a gaming system just for a format that may not be the standard? Also, would they even be able to keep up with production to keep up with products sold? Think back to the PS2 shortage and that was with existing hardware other than the chips. Sony at least has Nvidia and IBM chips now that are readily available but I just don't see how they will be able to keep up production of the players. Again, not an expert but I have a hard time seeing it. Can someone help me see the light?
Old 05-26-05, 02:35 PM
  #119  
Retired
 
Join Date: May 1999
Posts: 27,449
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Game systems are sold at a big lost, they make their profits on games. Like Razors are cheap and they make up for it selling the blades.

The PS3 will most likely launch at $299.99 (same price the PS2 launched at). Worst case I see is $399.99, but I think that's pretty unlikely.
Old 05-26-05, 03:23 PM
  #120  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 302
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
HD-DVD and BluRay will both go the way of laserdisc.
Old 05-26-05, 03:43 PM
  #121  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Docking Bay 94
Posts: 14,259
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Originally Posted by Cocopugg
HD-DVD and BluRay will both go the way of laserdisc.
I highly doubt that they'll last over 20 years as a home video medium.

That is what you meant, isn't it?
Old 05-26-05, 03:45 PM
  #122  
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: NYC
Posts: 15,957
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Cocopugg
HD-DVD and BluRay will both go the way of laserdisc.
Well...only if something unified comes out. The difference is that Home Video IS going towards HD. There's no question about that.
Laserdisc was a good step up but wasn't geared towards any finalized product which an HD DVD format would be.
Old 05-26-05, 04:58 PM
  #123  
Retired
 
Join Date: May 1999
Posts: 27,449
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
The question is how quick it will move to HD.

HD will be dominant at some point in time, that could well be a decade or more away.

Over the air broadcasts may be all HD by then, but most people have satellite and cable anyway and will still be able to get SD signal for a long time.

Given how many people I know with their DVD players hooked up to crappy TV's that look to be 10 years or more old, I'm not really expecting the Joe Six Packs to be beating down retailers doors to get an HD set anytime soon. Especially not until their at least as cheap as comperable size and quality SD sets are right now.
Old 09-16-05, 01:34 PM
  #124  
DVD Talk Hero
 
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 39,239
Received 598 Likes on 462 Posts
I don't know if this has been posted before but I thought the following might be of interest: http://www.avrev.com/news/0905/08.dualplayer.html
Old 09-16-05, 02:16 PM
  #125  
DVD Talk Platinum Edition
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Fort Collins, CO
Posts: 3,479
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Interesting article, but that's kind of a double edged sword because even if you do have a universal player, who's to say the format you bought of the movie isn't the one that loses the format war?

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.