What SVGA signal are you talking about? All DVDs contain 720x480 pixels, no more and no less. If you're watching a DVD on your computer at SVGA resolution, the computer upscales the 720x480 to SVGA. It doesn't add real picture detail; it just interpolates new pixels to fill in the spaces.

If you're comparing a DVD at 480p to some other computer video content at SVGA, that's an apples to oranges comparison.

HDTV comes in two flavors: 720p (1280x720 progressive) or 1080i (1920x1080 interlaced). Both have way more available detail than DVD.

Free life lesson kid: If you're totally ignorant about a subject, best not to say anything.

A wise man once said: "Better to keep your mouth closed and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt."

Arrogant, much? Seriously this stuff doesn't belong on this board... if you don't like what he said or disagree with it say so and explain yourself... don't belittle the guy.

Actually at the time I posted that I didn't know that HD and Blu-ray were the same thing. I thought HD was a completely different format than Blu-ray. I should've done more research on the subject before I began rambling.

I think you still need a little more research...

You are right about these points. It will up to people like US (DVDTalkers / aficionados /early adopters) to explain it to the general public.

Re: VHS to DVD versus DVD to HD.

While the number of lines going from 480p to 1080i may be greater than going from VHS (250 or so?) to 480p, I don't think the *perceived* increase in resolution will be as great.

For those of you who have seen 1080i in action, would doubling that again to something like 2200 lines make much of a difference? How good does it have to be before there is no perceptible increase in resolution with additional lines?

The step from VHS (pretty bad PQ) to DVD (pretty good PQ) strikes me as a greater jump than going from DVD (pretty good PQ) to HD (very good PQ). Numbers of pixels notwithstanding.

Add to that the addition of
• the random access of DVD versus the infamous "rewind" of VHS, and similar usage issues,
• the greatly improved digital and surround sound of DVD,
• the lower price point of DVDs versus rental priced VHS (or rather expensive LDs for that matter),
and I just don't buy the notion that an average consumer will consider the advent of HD as big a deal as was the coming of DVD.

Even for videophiles, going from mostly fullscreen (or letterboxed — even fewer lines of resolution) VHS to mostly OAR and anamorphic DVD would seem to be a bigger jump than DVD to HD.

Just my opinion of course. It will be interesting to see how it all shakes out.

I agree, to most people the jump from DVD to blu ray will be no where near as "big" or worthwhile as the move from VHS to DVD.

All those things you listed were the maing things that got me into DVD. OAR, durability, no rewinding, instant scene access, cheaper price at launch, were the main factors that got me into DVD. The pic quality was a factor to, but a very secondary one. Audio quality was a non-factor as I didn't have a 5.1 system the first 2 or 3 years I was into DVD and was just using my TV speakers.

And as I've said in this thread, I'm in no hurry to buy an HD tv as I just don't care much about video quality. I'll eventually get one, and eventually pick up a blu ray player and start buying new movies on that format (assuming the price is pretty much the same as dvds at that time). But I won't be replacing many dvds in my collection as dvd quality is more than good enough for me.

I agree with this part of your post. These things were major upgrades from VHS, just as they were from cassette to CD. I will split haors with you though on the PQ issue. If you take a look at a well presented 1080 presentation, the quality is mindblowing. In particular, sports do an excellent job with HD and I would LOVE to se the SW saga or the LOTR or Matrix trilogies presented in such high quality.

As I always say on this topic, the next gen won't take DVD out at the knees like DVD did to VHS (a format that was ready to be retired), it will slowly transition over.

Sports programs shot on HD video have a very different look to them than movies shot on 35mm film converted to HD. You won't get quite the same "Wow" factor or "through a window" appearance with movies in HD, simply because they are designed to look different than that.

That's what I believe as well. :thumbsup:

I wasn't very interested in DVDs until the 'Lord of the Rings - Extended Edition' came out as DVD only, then 'Alias' was released as a boxed set, and I found out that several seasons of 'Stargate' and other SF shows were already available.

I bought a DVD player because of all the DVD-only boxed sets with no VHS equivalent. From what I understand, most TV shows more than a few years old won't look too good on HD, so I'm not in a rush to upgrade anything.

While I understand the eventual benefits of HD, the electronics companies failure to market this effectively is starting to remind me of the 'New Coke' they launched in the 80's or early 90's.

For those who don't remember, the Coca Cola company announced they were discontinuing regular Coke forever, to be replaced by 'New Coke' (which tasted nasty). They spent a zillion dollars marketing 'New Coke', and it was a massive failure.

Any plan for the electronics industry or the FCC that involves telling Joe Six Pack to replace their TV and DVD player (when they probably just bought the DVD player recently) will probably meet with the same public reaction as 'New Coke' unless they start doing a better job marketing it.

The CEs and FCC want to make money selling devices that operate in the frequencies that analog TV now operate in. It will be hard to spin this in any way that will leave people feeling warm and fuzzy.

While TV MAY not look better, who wouldn;t be glad to have a one or two disc set for each season of a show rather than five or six? The additional storage space on a HD or BR disc is another benefit to the transition.

All your old discs will play in the new players, so noone is asking anyone to dump anything they already own, even though history has shown us that people are definitely willing to do it for a percievable increase in quality.

Side note: the new date is April 7th 2009.

i find this hysterical that it's the "digital-switchover" date because it's my birthday ;)

Except of course for their DVD players, in favor of the new players which will be backwards-compatible.

Will they though? The formats where people have dumped things and replaced them with no ones were cases where the new formats offered more than just a/v quality.

Records and cassettes replaced by CDs (sound better, more durable, instant track access).

VHS replaced by DVD (look and sound better, but also extras, durability, instant scene access, etc.)

The only comparable thing I can think of is the introduction of DVD-A and SA-CDs, and I certainly not many people have dumped their cds for these formats.

I think bluray will get phased in slowly, but most people will keep their dvds, just replace a few absolute favorites that benefit a lot from A/V quality (i.e. special effects heavy flicks). Or in otherwords I expect new releases to sell pretty well, but catalog titles to lag behind.

I mean it seems like very few people on this forum of DVD enthusiast are very keen about replacing most or all of their titles, and you know joe six pack will be even less so.

NES for SNES, SNES for N64, N64 for Gamecube
Gameboy for GB Pocket for GB color for GB Advace for GBA SP for Nintendo DS
Playstation for PS2 for PS3
Xbox for Xbox 2
Sega Master System for Genesis for Saturn for Dreamcase


The difference between the new audio formats and video formats is that the difference in quality will be easily perceived. Again I am not saying people will go out in droves for them, but gradually the switchover will happen. As the manufacturing costs come down, HD/BR players will supplant those current players in the various price rages until a few years from now (2009 or so) where the $36 player will be HD capable.

Video games work I guess, but could be argued as apples and oranged.

Plus it doesn't help with the catalog title issue. People don't upgrade their consoles and then rebuy all the exact same games in better looking versions. :D

I agree it will slowly catch on and people will start buying all new releases in HD eventually. I just think the vast majority of people will just replace a few of their favorites and keep their DVDs for the most part. Thus catalog title sells will be probably much lower than they were for DVD. Hopefully it won't be to the extent that some less popular older titles never get released.

I completely disagree. I bet if you look at the VG "charts" at least 1/2 the titles in the top 10 are sequels, mostly of series that started on earlier consoles.

Video games while not completely analgous are a better comparison because better visuals is the carrot that captures consumers, whereas the audio comparisons in SACD/DVD-A are aimed more at people looking for extremely high fidelity sound.

The "DVD industry" could only wish they had the success of the VG industry.

But the sequels have new content, not just the exact same game with better graphics, so it still doesn't work. Plus you have to buy the new consoles and the new games to keep gaming. They quit making games on the old console a year or so after the release of the new one. This won't be the case with DVDs obviously.

The same album SA-CD/DVD-A just offers better sound than the CD version. Similarly, the bluray version of a movie will just offer better picture and sound than the DVD version.

I get that you're arguing that the improvement is more readily noticeable than with SACD/dvd-a, and I agree. I just still think it won't be enough to be a sweeping success and have catalog titles flying off the shelf. Most people are going to keep the vast majority of their dvds IMO.

Seems pretty obvious since there are very few people even among hardcord DVD enthusiasts on sites like this saying they'll rebuy all or most of their collection.

New releases are a different story and bluray will eventually become the dominant format their. Though that too may take 5-10 years after release. It all hinges on the adoption of HD-TVs.

Its still a different game. People don't buy Wind Waker because it is Legend of Zelda with better graphics. Its because they want to play more of that game's style, story, and fun. Just not the same thing as an upgrade, thats why people will buy the original games after playing the sequels.

Is this caused by the sampling algorithms that convert film to HD? The reason I ask is because back when digital cameras first came out, I knew a photography nut who said that 35mm film had about 25 megapixels of perceived information on them which is greater than 1080p (unless I'm not ciphering correctly-- 2000*2000 = 4,000,000?) The perceived information, of course, didn't take into consideration color depth which adds more information-- the 25 megapixels was refering to perceived image resolution...

It's not a matter of resolution. It's a matter of film just not looking anything at all like video. They have very different textures and visual appearances.

I think you and I are sort of arguing the same point. I agree that the VG analogy is not the best, but I do think it is closer than the SACD one. I also don't think this will be an overnight success, and I don't think the variety of titles on HD will rival DVD for a very long time if ever, especially TV sets.

What I will think you'll see is a slow phase out of standard DVD players over several years. As the prices come down they will supplant the high end players ($500 price point) and the CEs will stop making them. Slowly the new players will supplant the players in the other levels in SRP until many years from now you will get that HD/BR player for $30 on black Friday.

You don't need an HD set to use one of these players, you just need one for the maximum resolution.

Even now, I am telling people that if that old catalog title they want comes out, or better yet that obscure cult hit TV show from the 80s, get it. I don't think we will ever see the catalog expansion we are seeing now on any other future home video format ever again.

Personally, once this format war nonsense is done, and once I feel like the players and software are fairly priced, I will jump on, and whenever the choice is offered between a standard DVD or a HD/BR one at comperable prices, I will take the most modern purchase. One of the attractive things about the HDDVD format is the dual formating of the discs so that they will play one side in a SDVD player and a HD player when you get one.

But the transition will happen. The studios want it.

In that case, we do agree.

Though I'm slightly less optimistic that it will succeed in the long run. It will be a long, slow process to get the majority of people buying new releases on the new format. It will be interesting to see if they industry is willing to keep pumping money into it for years if DVD sales continue to be much higher than hd sales.

Will also be interesting to see how the hardcore videophiles take to the format after a few years when it's apparent that the catalog titles won't get released as expansively as on DVD, as we both see happening.