Trevor

I don’t think echo chamber is the right phrase. When the Republican Party is electing people and enacting policies that even lifelong conservatives are attacking, the attacks on Trump in our forum are coming from the left and the right. I’m a current and lifelong Republican who has never voted Democratic in my life, but even the worst Democrat is better than a Trumpist imho. So again, I think an echo chamber of sorts is to be expected in certain situations. This is an obvious one.

hdnmickey

I was going to basically type the same thing, so I'll just quote your post and add that what I find to be the real sticking point is that people that hold bigoted views believe they have the right to free speech. WHich in their minds means they shouldn't be told those views are bigoted, and thus are acitng like bigots. Look not further than the recent posts here arguing that Nazi's aren't that much of a problem because they've stopped "murdering" people.

Which also takes me to my next point. Things are largely the way they are because simple things like belvieving in equal rights has become "politcal". Well, only for those that stand on a poltical platform that rallies against those things. And to have a form of insult for those that dare speak up against their poltical platform, they make up new insults like "SJW" or "snowflake".

If the mods are going to start giving into the wishes of those expecting their bigotry not to be called what it is, they're should also put and end to the labels of "SJW" and the like. Otherwise they're just letting it all reverse back to the folks that decided to make equal rights for human beings a poltical battle rather than something that just is because it's the way it should be in this country.

hdnmickey

Exactly. I've also posted before that if the choice is between an echo chamber, and a forum full pf more Trump like bigotry, I'll learn to deal with echos.

But given that we still lhave the same extreme right blog posts happening multiple times per day, the poltics forum is still far from anything that resembles an echo chamber.

kefrank

The only thing I'm going to say in this thread is that I think everyone should read story's post several times, reflect on it, and take it to heart. Discussion on this forum would be a lot better if we all did that.

B5Erik

So you equate the term, "SJW," with the term, "Racist?"

Honestly, you know damned well that once someone is labeled a racist or a sexist it's over for them. Their personal character is destroyed, they have zero credibility as a human being, and they might as well leave the board.

Labeling someone as a SJW doesn't have that kind of impact. Not even close. Hell, for some people it's a badge of honor (wanting, "Social Justice," even in extreme ways, doesn't have the negative connotation that being a racist does).

Labeling ANYONE in that way, on a personal character basis, cannot be allowed on any functioning board, or the board will end up with only one group - the group with the greater numbers in the first place.

Personal attacks, including things like, "Anyone who believes that is a racist," cannot be allowed.

There is no need to jump all over a board member just because you don't agree with his posts. That holds true for either side. No one has to be an asshole about, "Challenging," someone's point of view and harassing that person.

We can have civil discourse. We SHOULD have civil discourse. But we don't.

B5Erik

So is your goal to squash all non left views?

How about moderate views that are more in the middle? Those people are getting jumped on, too.

Groucho

Labeling of posters is a no-no, period. Whether you call somebody a "jerk" or a "nazi" it isn't allowed. There isn't a degree that is "okay".

B5Erik

Why? I thought liberals were supposed to be tolerant and open to different views.

Now, if you're talking about truly offensive comments, then, absolutely, there should be pushback. But if you're just talking about differences of opinions or philosophies? No, there should not be aggressive, harassing pushback, just civil disagreements.

No board member should have to put up with harassment.

B5Erik

Well, I've been labeled a racist, sexist, misogynist, liar, alt-right, and the people who did it are still around...

hdnmickey

Well, given that it's also directed at those that champion for equal rights for gays, or even just women, I going to go with... no.

Maybe, if you ignore all the like minded people that agree with those bigoted views. To those people, the others that dare to support equal rights end up in the same damged character boat once they are labled as a "SJW". If you think it's any different it's probaly because you have returned to only caring about what affects you.

hdnmickey

Did you completely skip Trevor's post?

hdnmickey

I have yet to see anybody throwing around SJW, and other derogatory labels for liberals, even warned to cut it off. Despite many reports of those posts. Just saying...

B5Erik

That's probably because SJW doesn't have the negative character connotation that racist does. For a lot of people it's a POSITIVE.

hdnmickey

Just like bigot. At least for Trump, and all those that contiue to support his views after they were exposed as racist, homophobic, etc. Because why else why would they continue to support bigotry?

Dan

99% of the time (yes, THAT often) it's used as a pejorative and generalization about anyone to the left of the person using it. It's absolutely meant to minimize their views to irrelevant and unworthy of a measured civil response.

It's a garbage title used to dismiss the poster instead of the post. It's not as "severe" as racist or whatever but it's still proof positive that it's being used to silence someone being disagreed with.

TomOpus

This whole forum is becoming a Politics dumping ground. Why don't you invade Book Talk?

Or change the site name to PoliticTalk.

hdnmickey

Whose fault is it that movies, TV shows, that features non-straight white males in leading roles are often labeled as a political movie/show and rallied against as such? Serious question because I think that is answer many people seem to be looking for lately.

gryffinmaster

Not when said views stem from exclusion and hate. Liberals have no obligation to be open and/or tolerant to all viewpoints.

Jay G.

Didn't you just state that you were called racist? Has your personal character been destroyed, with zero credibility as a human being? Name calling is bad, but you're delving into hyperbole here.

I meant "pushback" in terms of people offering opposing opinions, and challenging the viewpoint. And people take the "liberals are supposed to be tolerant" to absurd degrees. Bigotry and hate don't need to be tolerated. The cries of "you're intolerant of my intolerance" is a false equivalence.

People on the forum should be tolerant to the point of allowing other people to speak, without name calling or harassment. But they don't have to just accept any and all viewpoints without disagreement. Yes, you can post your argument, and then I can post mine. And if 5 other people disagree with you as well, so be it.

Again, I've stated I've been the lone dissenter in a thread before. Is it lonely? Yes. Can it be frustrating to be the only one arguing a certain viewpoint, while 4 other people disagree with each of my posts, while agreeing and complementing each others? Sure. But that's not harassment, and not something that's the job of the mods to fix. If I can't change any minds, or find a common ground, or nobody else comes in to agree with me, I have to continually decide whether to continue posting, or to say my piece and move on.

davidh777

Yes, I believe in social justice, but I feel that most people using the term SJW intend to do it in a sneering, condescending way. At least that's how I read it in the context of their other words.

B5Erik

You are correct, but it's nothing more than saying, "Liberal on steroids," or, "Enhanced Liberal."

It is nowhere near the negative connotation that, "Racist," has. And we've seen several people, including me, called racists here. That's a far worse thing, because racist views - truly racist views - are vile and despicable, and the people who hold those views are either woefully ignorant, or are just horrible people.

I don't think calling someone a SJW is even on the same plane as calling someone a racist.

As I've noted previously, calling someone a racist, sexist, homophobe, etc, is going nuclear. You are completely destroying that person's character and credibility.

Being a Social Justice Warrior does have a good connotation - you care about people. You may be misguided or carry things too far (depending on your point of view), but you aren't an ignorant or horrible person.

B5Erik

That's a big part of the problem that DVDTalk has. People are looking at an awful lot through their personal political filters and attacking people they believe are in the wrong from a political standpoint, even when talking about movies or TV shows.

And then the personal attacks come as the arguments get ratcheted up. People get, "Called out," vigorously for their views, and then they vigorously defend themselves, and things snowball from there.

DVD Polizei

Who's fault? Well, it's your own and a few others from looking at their posts.

Wait, you wanted everyone to blame others (and even political leaders) for YOUR behavior on this website? Isn't that just a tad passive and rather odd, since the commentary is far from passive in the first place. Second, it's also childish.

B5Erik

Bullshit. NO ONE views, "Bigot," as a positive. Certainly no one here. Come on...

B5Erik

Not really. There are some people here who will not take me seriously anymore because, for them, however wrong they are, those labels stuck.

So often when I post on a sensitive topic past accusations are brought up as a way to shoot me down. So, yeah, my character has been - unfairly, and based on incorrect assumptions - destroyed to an extent.

There are people here who really, genuinely seem to believe I'm a racist and a sexist. People who know me in real life know better, but some people here don't.

I'm not a racist or a sexist. I'm just an asshole. (Come on - we're all assholes sometimes.)

And I'm too stubborn to quit. I'm a pitbull in some respects.