Address MOD Questions....?
06-12-13, 10:02 AM
#76
DVD Talk Godfather
Re: Address MOD Questions....?
For the avoidance of doubt, we do have a process of collective decision-making for anything contentious or when someone feels too close to a particular issue to be objective. As I've mentioned earlier, this can take time and, unfortunately, the pattern I have seen in these occasional flare-ups is that the person at the epicentre is often unwilling to wait and chooses to add fuel to the flames rather than letting the process take its course. Positions become entrenched and it becomes more difficult to dig oneself out - to mix a few metaphors!
06-12-13, 10:07 AM
#78
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Re: Address MOD Questions....?
06-12-13, 10:16 AM
#79
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Re: Address MOD Questions....?
I love that the suspended member we are all fighting for was informed of his 3 month suspension in a post "regarding moderator/member interaction", not through a private email. This wasn't sparked because REDACTED was suspended, it was due to why he was suspended and the lack of communication surrounding it. So the Mods knew he was suspended for three months, but nobody decided to email him about it till last night after a few of us starting causing a stink around here and a Admin chimed in. He was suspended for breaking a rule that if 99% of the members did, nothing would happen because that sort of stuff happens all the time. Now maybe the suspension was extended due to some of the decisions made in the wake of the suspension but it should've never come to this.
This is just getting stupid, 3 months is a long time for bullshit. Suspending the OP of this thread is bullshit. That PM the OP received is major bullshit and should've been posted for all to see.
Is there a Admin/Mod code of conduct? Why are Admin/Mods allowed to erase their own posts? If you are in charge of keeping this place running smoothly, when you post something it should be locked in stone. You shouldn't be able to dump on someone, start a feud, erase the post that started this whole thing, ignore PM/emails and then find some arbitrary bullshit to suspend people.
This is sad, no wonder I find myself going to Reddit first now.
This is just getting stupid, 3 months is a long time for bullshit. Suspending the OP of this thread is bullshit. That PM the OP received is major bullshit and should've been posted for all to see.
Is there a Admin/Mod code of conduct? Why are Admin/Mods allowed to erase their own posts? If you are in charge of keeping this place running smoothly, when you post something it should be locked in stone. You shouldn't be able to dump on someone, start a feud, erase the post that started this whole thing, ignore PM/emails and then find some arbitrary bullshit to suspend people.
This is sad, no wonder I find myself going to Reddit first now.
06-12-13, 10:20 AM
#80
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Re: Address MOD Questions....?
OP was most likely suspended for posting that ridiculously insulting PM from an official member of this board. Yeah, that is what this place has come to.
06-12-13, 10:24 AM
#81
DVD Talk God
06-12-13, 10:47 AM
#82
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Re: Address MOD Questions....?
Yes, that is exactly why he was suspended. Although I'm certain that they will claim it is something different, the evidence says otherwise.
06-12-13, 11:24 AM
#85
DVD Talk Limited Edition
06-12-13, 11:25 AM
#86
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Re: Address MOD Questions....?
You mean the picture of a unknown man in a best buy shirt with his face covered that was removed within minutes of being posted. I think that led to the PM, which was posted here and caused the suspension.
06-12-13, 11:28 AM
#87
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Re: Address MOD Questions....?
There is something to this. Generally the mods do things that all reasonable people can see the logic behind. But "double secret probation" seems to be on the rise.
Perhaps something as simple as "if a member has x number of years here, and the suspended/banned member agrees, air that dirty laundry for the good of the forum.
I still post a lot, and obviously often, but I have started spending more time at reddit and their stupid formatting lately. A few other places as well. And trust me, after all these years and posts, I'm not the one who has changed. And generally this type of shit never hits my radar because I simply don't care that much. But it is getting to be a bit stupid.
Perhaps something as simple as "if a member has x number of years here, and the suspended/banned member agrees, air that dirty laundry for the good of the forum.
I still post a lot, and obviously often, but I have started spending more time at reddit and their stupid formatting lately. A few other places as well. And trust me, after all these years and posts, I'm not the one who has changed. And generally this type of shit never hits my radar because I simply don't care that much. But it is getting to be a bit stupid.
I agree with the above. I have been a member here for almost 14 years! I visit almost everyday even on vacation! I too have not typically got involved with some of the things going on here but there really has been some out there decisions lately regarding some suspensions. And a general change in the culture that has not been for the better. I know I am not the only one that has noticed.
Get a handle on this quick. BUT be smart about it.
The only reason I am still here is that I have not found a forum that I like better...yet. I have noticed several have posted that same thought. Maybe this recent change is the kick in the ass I needt to spend time doing other things...like my job instead of posting here.
There has been some very good discussion at another place that some of us are a member at. That may be the way to go.
Get a handle on this quick. BUT be smart about it.
The only reason I am still here is that I have not found a forum that I like better...yet. I have noticed several have posted that same thought. Maybe this recent change is the kick in the ass I needt to spend time doing other things...like my job instead of posting here.
There has been some very good discussion at another place that some of us are a member at. That may be the way to go.
A dying forum starts banning long term members, well known by all, whose contributions are one of the few things left keeping this dying forum alive, because certain mods can't handle their role anymore and have turned everything into to some childish challenge to their 'authoritah'!
I'm a mod elsewhere, on a more active site than this, with a lot more things to oversee and watch, and we pride ourselves on not doing the kinds of things going on here. Overseeing things can kind of change a person's attitude if they let it - Stanford Prison Experiment and all. You do get to a kind of 'us and them' mindset if you let that happen. The idea is to not let that happen.
Actual troublemakers should be dealt with. But this isn't about that. This is more of a petty pissing contest kind of thing like we're seeing here. If that's the best a given mod can do, they should resign and get over it.
06-12-13, 12:20 PM
#92
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Re: Address MOD Questions....?
Yep. I didn't see the picture in question, and that may have been the reason for the warning. But posting the PM was clearly the precipitating factor in the suspension.
06-12-13, 12:48 PM
#93
DVD Talk Hero
Re: Address MOD Questions....?
I won't get into the subject of whether any member should have been suspended or not. As Benedict pointed out, I don't know all the facts. I appreciate the work the mods do, and I know that I don't want the job.
However, the process needs to be improved.
First, I know of at least one other member whose suspension was upgraded to a permaban because he sent an email asking for a rules clarification. It should take more than 2-4 emails to a moderator to be considered harassment.
Second, suspended members ought to be informed of the length of their suspension. We learned of the length of Mrs Danger's suspension only because I sent an email to a neutral third-party moderator four months later. We knew better than to ask about it at the time of her suspension because we didn't want her to be penalized under the email harassment rule as well.
In this specific instance, I am disappointed in some of the moderator actions I've seen this week. I don't know why someone thought it would be appropriate to remove a 1000+ post thread because he or she didn't like the activity of one day, or to use the forum censorship tool to block the address of a suspended member's blog. That sort of response comes across as petty.
However, the process needs to be improved.
First, I know of at least one other member whose suspension was upgraded to a permaban because he sent an email asking for a rules clarification. It should take more than 2-4 emails to a moderator to be considered harassment.
Second, suspended members ought to be informed of the length of their suspension. We learned of the length of Mrs Danger's suspension only because I sent an email to a neutral third-party moderator four months later. We knew better than to ask about it at the time of her suspension because we didn't want her to be penalized under the email harassment rule as well.
In this specific instance, I am disappointed in some of the moderator actions I've seen this week. I don't know why someone thought it would be appropriate to remove a 1000+ post thread because he or she didn't like the activity of one day, or to use the forum censorship tool to block the address of a suspended member's blog. That sort of response comes across as petty.
06-12-13, 01:04 PM
#94
DVD Talk Godfather
Re: Address MOD Questions....?
If 2-4 emails are considered "excessive use of moderator time," enough for the moderator/admin to be annoyed and start thinking about suspensions and bans, then it sure sounds like we need more moderators, or ones that are more patient and understanding.
This strikes me as the kind of overreaction that schools have these days with kids getting suspended for pop tart guns or sign language. Mods/Admins should be protected from obvious harassment and spam; a few messages questioning a ban or suspension do not fit that criteria.
This strikes me as the kind of overreaction that schools have these days with kids getting suspended for pop tart guns or sign language. Mods/Admins should be protected from obvious harassment and spam; a few messages questioning a ban or suspension do not fit that criteria.
06-12-13, 01:09 PM
#95
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Re: Address MOD Questions....?
For the avoidance of doubt, we do have a process of collective decision-making for anything contentious or when someone feels too close to a particular issue to be objective. As I've mentioned earlier, this can take time and, unfortunately, the pattern I have seen in these occasional flare-ups is that the person at the epicentre is often unwilling to wait and chooses to add fuel to the flames rather than letting the process take its course. Positions become entrenched and it becomes more difficult to dig oneself out - to mix a few metaphors!
If a mod feels so self-important that they're banning people over that, the suitability of that individual as a mod has to be questioned.
06-12-13, 01:22 PM
#96
DVD Talk Legend
06-12-13, 02:31 PM
#98
Re: Address MOD Questions....?
O-kay!
I'm going to close this, at least temporarily. This is all me, guys, because I think we've seen a lot of thoughtful, measured suggestions and observations here, but lately this thread is really going off the rails and some people are posting stuff that's highly volatile and probably just causing more problems.
I deleted a small number of recent posts as you can see.
Until the mods and admins have time to digest this and come to some sort of consensus, let's cease and desist the running commentary on mods/rules/etc. I promise it won't be long til we can all get to griping again if that's what we want.
Feel free to PM me if you really hate this action.
Thank you all,
Paul
Community Manager
I'm going to close this, at least temporarily. This is all me, guys, because I think we've seen a lot of thoughtful, measured suggestions and observations here, but lately this thread is really going off the rails and some people are posting stuff that's highly volatile and probably just causing more problems.
I deleted a small number of recent posts as you can see.
Until the mods and admins have time to digest this and come to some sort of consensus, let's cease and desist the running commentary on mods/rules/etc. I promise it won't be long til we can all get to griping again if that's what we want.
Feel free to PM me if you really hate this action.
Thank you all,
Paul
Community Manager
06-12-13, 02:46 PM
#99
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Re: Address MOD Questions....?
I can certainly see a potential problem whereby one question will lead to another and another and soon X &/or all of the mod squad will be called on to discuss each and every administrative decision which would severely impact on the time available to do behind-the-scenes work such as stopping the spammers, scammers and RBMs etc. etc. As X probably does about 90% of this vital work, I for one am wary about anything that could impact on that - while still recognising that we have to be flexible and accountable within reason.
I do realise that may seem like over-dramatisation but we have encountered this situation in the past and need to take it into account in determining a prudent course of action.
All this being said, any decision about his posting in this particular thread rests with X and I know that he has been considering the pros and cons. And, for what it is worth, I can let everyone here know that, mindful of the upset that can be caused, X fully intends to ensure that his outgoing emails in future use the softest possible language.
EDIT: Sorry, I was typing this on and off for an hour and didn't realise that IBobi had closed the thread not long before I pressed "send"!
06-12-13, 03:20 PM
#100
Re: Address MOD Questions....?
To clarify a few things:
1. Nobody has been banned.
2. Moderators do not and will not discuss the details of disciplinary actions in the public forums. They do discuss them as a group amongst themselves. Members at large will not know the facts of any particular case (at least not from reading the forum) for just this reason. Speculation is just that; I recommend avoiding it.
3. Disciplinary action against a longtime member is particularly sensitive, and always done with extreme care, because as many have pointed out, it does negatively affect the forum -- even when warranted.
4. The moderators and administrators are in the midst of serious discussions around how they comport themselves, and around potential rules clarifications. I am convinced, from the comments I'm already seeing from them, that the overall outcome of all this will be a big net positive.
Paul
1. Nobody has been banned.
2. Moderators do not and will not discuss the details of disciplinary actions in the public forums. They do discuss them as a group amongst themselves. Members at large will not know the facts of any particular case (at least not from reading the forum) for just this reason. Speculation is just that; I recommend avoiding it.
3. Disciplinary action against a longtime member is particularly sensitive, and always done with extreme care, because as many have pointed out, it does negatively affect the forum -- even when warranted.
4. The moderators and administrators are in the midst of serious discussions around how they comport themselves, and around potential rules clarifications. I am convinced, from the comments I'm already seeing from them, that the overall outcome of all this will be a big net positive.
Paul
