Address MOD Questions....?
06-29-13, 10:27 AM
#301
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Address MOD Questions....?
In the circumstances, while the current series of changes are underway, the moderating team considered that it would be more prudent and more productive to work to our strengths, thus some of us have been endeavouring to respond directly to the feedback while others are working hard behind the scenes.
That said, I think it would be good to hear from X his perspective of things since most of the "issues" involved him, fairly or not. He has been quiet on this topic, and while I think you and others have done a good job managing the site in the past few weeks, there are things that only X can speak to. I hope he does.
06-29-13, 11:36 AM
#302
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Address MOD Questions....?
fumanstan I am very sorry that my post could have been interpreted in such an extremely prejudicial way.
It was not my intent and I think that it would be better for me to refrain from further contributions to this discussion as, even when I believe that I have chosen my words carefully, they are clearly still open to misunderstanding.
It was not my intent and I think that it would be better for me to refrain from further contributions to this discussion as, even when I believe that I have chosen my words carefully, they are clearly still open to misunderstanding.
I understand the concerns to not want to make things worse.
However, to stop participating in a thread like this when you feel you are being misunderstood I think would not be the correct way to go.
We need to keep lines of communications open in my opinion.
In the end it is your choice. I hope if you see something you want to comment on you will still do so.
06-29-13, 04:24 PM
#303
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Re: Address MOD Questions....?
In the circumstances, while the current series of changes are underway, the moderating team considered that it would be more prudent and more productive to work to our strengths, thus some of us have been endeavouring to respond directly to the feedback while others are working hard behind the scenes.
In an earlier post I explained that we'd all be taking care to ensure that, going forwards, our messages and emails etc. were suitably respectful. It is a matter of some regret that some folk appear to be giving little or no credence to this undertaking. Less credence, it sometimes appears, than they are prepared to give to the tales of multiply warned &/or suspended &/or even BANNED members.
And it strikes me that there is an element of "damned if you do, damned if you don't" in play here which applies both in respect to what we have said about future interactions and to the other changes that we are putting in place.
My own observation of how people interact on the DVDTalk.com forums includes noting a tendency for particular groups either to pile in and make unfriendly posts towards a particular individual who is in the spotlight or to subject them to what amounts to death by a thousand cuts.
It may seem clichéd but... actions DO often speak louder than words: if people generally actually don't believe that there will be the respectful approach and that the SOP will not be adhered to, I am not sure why any one person coming in and posting an apology at this point would make much difference. Whatever was said could be attacked as insufficient, insincere or, and here's the irony, "too late".
The other elephant in the room that exercises my mind equally or more so is that we do face the continuing issue of people who really don't like to be constrained by community rules. This has been the case since before I was a moderator, has persisted throughout the time I have been on the team and, I am sorry to say, doubtless will continue when I'm gone. IBobi's sticky/locked post atop this forum was not composed in a vacuum.
So, as well as ensuring that we have sufficient volunteers to do the job and that they have the appropriate guidelines within in which to operate, we also need to have some confidence that the folk here are prepared to accept that we will from time to time encounter awkward members whose take on how things work differs considerably from "regular" ones. I really do hope that the sizeable majority of people reading this and posting here trust us to work towards finishing the job of putting things on a proper footing.
In an earlier post I explained that we'd all be taking care to ensure that, going forwards, our messages and emails etc. were suitably respectful. It is a matter of some regret that some folk appear to be giving little or no credence to this undertaking. Less credence, it sometimes appears, than they are prepared to give to the tales of multiply warned &/or suspended &/or even BANNED members.
And it strikes me that there is an element of "damned if you do, damned if you don't" in play here which applies both in respect to what we have said about future interactions and to the other changes that we are putting in place.
My own observation of how people interact on the DVDTalk.com forums includes noting a tendency for particular groups either to pile in and make unfriendly posts towards a particular individual who is in the spotlight or to subject them to what amounts to death by a thousand cuts.
It may seem clichéd but... actions DO often speak louder than words: if people generally actually don't believe that there will be the respectful approach and that the SOP will not be adhered to, I am not sure why any one person coming in and posting an apology at this point would make much difference. Whatever was said could be attacked as insufficient, insincere or, and here's the irony, "too late".
The other elephant in the room that exercises my mind equally or more so is that we do face the continuing issue of people who really don't like to be constrained by community rules. This has been the case since before I was a moderator, has persisted throughout the time I have been on the team and, I am sorry to say, doubtless will continue when I'm gone. IBobi's sticky/locked post atop this forum was not composed in a vacuum.
So, as well as ensuring that we have sufficient volunteers to do the job and that they have the appropriate guidelines within in which to operate, we also need to have some confidence that the folk here are prepared to accept that we will from time to time encounter awkward members whose take on how things work differs considerably from "regular" ones. I really do hope that the sizeable majority of people reading this and posting here trust us to work towards finishing the job of putting things on a proper footing.
How hard is it to understand that sometimes a simple apology is the best solution to a problem. Whether people would be satisfied or not is besides the point. It's the right thing to do when you've wronged someone. Period. The ego centric approach to this is the very root of the problem here. Set your egos aside for a moment and do what is best for the website, regardless of who says what about your apology.
My understanding is that X is very dedicated to this website and works a ton behind the scenes. I don't doubt this at all. Of course this would lead me to believe he must care a lot about this website and it's future. If this is true, wouldn't he want to do what is best for ensuring the survival of the website? If apologizing and making it clear that things will be handled differently in the future by him will stop the bleeding and start the healing, then what is the hold up? Ego? Stubbornness? Seriously, it doesn't seem that complicated to me.
And to your other point. I'm sorry, when I hear from enough users, who don't know each other, describe the same situation repeatedly, the problem is most likely not with them. Sure there are always three sides to a story. But sticking your head in the sand and pretending that all is okay, when people are clearly telling you it is not okay, doesn't seem to be working. Which mod stood up to X when he clearly overreacted against minor threat? None that I recall. Why would that be any different now? Why was there no admission that it was a mistake?
These questions and their answers (or lack of in some cases) are why people are saying the problem has not been addressed yet. Just to be clear, I have never had any problems with any admins or mods on this board. Hell, I'm a borderline lurker. But I really enjoy this site, and I don't really feel like sitting around and watching it die off. If it does, it won't be because the customers didn't try and help out.
06-30-13, 03:09 PM
#305
Re: Address MOD Questions....?
I'll throw my two cents in. I've never had a problem with any mods or admins here, but then again I don't post on a forum to stir up drama or get into petty arguments. Now that this whole debacle has been going on for a few weeks, frankly I'm glad one specific element may never post here again, because it's clear from postings elsewhere, said person appears to want to see the whole site fail.
The forum is much more than Other, which I find ok, but other times find embarrassing. I frankly come here for the conversation in the other areas and the bottom line is, in every large forum community it's probably expected that some users will latch onto drama and want to continue to escalate it well past its expiration date. Hopefully it never again gets out of hand to the level it did this time.
The forum is much more than Other, which I find ok, but other times find embarrassing. I frankly come here for the conversation in the other areas and the bottom line is, in every large forum community it's probably expected that some users will latch onto drama and want to continue to escalate it well past its expiration date. Hopefully it never again gets out of hand to the level it did this time.
06-30-13, 03:48 PM
#306
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
Re: Address MOD Questions....?
06-30-13, 08:03 PM
#307
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07-01-13, 01:16 PM
#308
DVD Talk Godfather
Re: Address MOD Questions....?
fumanstan I am very sorry that my post could have been interpreted in such an extremely prejudicial way.
It was not my intent and I think that it would be better for me to refrain from further contributions to this discussion as, even when I believe that I have chosen my words carefully, they are clearly still open to misunderstanding.
It was not my intent and I think that it would be better for me to refrain from further contributions to this discussion as, even when I believe that I have chosen my words carefully, they are clearly still open to misunderstanding.
I guess I'd prefer that rather then trying to choose your words carefully, just be blunt and direct about it.
07-07-13, 07:23 PM
#309
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Re: Address MOD Questions....?
Any updates on whether or not the former owner of this forum has been banned? It seems that telling the customers one thing, while doing another is not in the spirit of the supposed changes that are being made around here.
Either way, a little honesty and less treating us like we're stupid could go a long way...
Either way, a little honesty and less treating us like we're stupid could go a long way...
07-08-13, 01:25 AM
#311
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Re: Address MOD Questions....?
Any updates on whether or not the former owner of this forum has been banned? It seems that telling the customers one thing, while doing another is not in the spirit of the supposed changes that are being made around here.
Either way, a little honesty and less treating us like we're stupid could go a long way...
Either way, a little honesty and less treating us like we're stupid could go a long way...
I cannot guarantee whether you will receive a response. However, and with the utmost respect, dave-o, I would suggest that any direct request for an update from IB couched in terms that pour scorn on the efforts and the integrity either of the current moderation team - or of the company on whose servers the messages you read and write are hosted - might meet with what the spin doctors refer to as a sub-optimal response.
Just my two pennies.
07-08-13, 03:19 AM
#312
DVD Talk Gold Edition
Re: Address MOD Questions....?
So, when I was suspended I e-mailed to ask why and never did receive a response. Admittedly, it was some years ago now, but now I keep seeing in this thread that one may e-mail and ask about why - is there any promise that we will be answered. I also e-mailed and asked why all links to my website http:// were absolutely banned. When I hit the enter key my website name will disappear. I posted several images which were relevant to threads and a couple of times I made the mistake of asking people to comment about a change to my website. Is that a reason to make it so that no links to my website images will work. I have a separate folder for images which I posted which is still there on my website and it's named "DVDTalkImages". Maybe a mod can take a look there and see that those images are not offensive and that they were actually helpful to the threads that they were posted for. Wonder if a mod will read this and tell me anything?
See, told you that the website name would disappear when I hit the enter key! It did!
See, told you that the website name would disappear when I hit the enter key! It did!
07-08-13, 04:20 AM
#313
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Re: Address MOD Questions....?
danwiz, please read the SOP in the sticky. That confirms that suspendees henceforth will always be emailed and explains the appeal process.
By the way, I believe that nearly three years ago you were asked to stop what was regarded as by mods and various members as repeated spamming of your own website.
I would imagine that the automatic censorship of your site was implemented because of your repeated circumvention of the rules as I believe they were then set out. A new version of these particular rules remains under discussion with IB and should be published before too much longer.
So, for the avoidance of doubt, are you now saying now that you did not receive any of the warnings. Or that you received some or all of them but simply misunderstood? For illustrative purposes, I will quote below the following message that I sent to you on or around 22 September 2010:
The record shows that - after a slight hiatus - posting privileges were returned early November at which time you contacted the team and included a promise not to mention your domain again...
By the way, I believe that nearly three years ago you were asked to stop what was regarded as by mods and various members as repeated spamming of your own website.
I would imagine that the automatic censorship of your site was implemented because of your repeated circumvention of the rules as I believe they were then set out. A new version of these particular rules remains under discussion with IB and should be published before too much longer.
So, for the avoidance of doubt, are you now saying now that you did not receive any of the warnings. Or that you received some or all of them but simply misunderstood? For illustrative purposes, I will quote below the following message that I sent to you on or around 22 September 2010:
I'm benedict, of of the dvdtalk forum admins.
You have been suspended for a time as a result of using the forum to direct people to your own site. This is against the forum rules prohibiting this kind of self-promotion.
I would expect the suspension to be lifted at the beginning of October. Please make sure that you don't sign up again in the interim, as members found to have more than one account are usually then subject to a ban.
You have been suspended for a time as a result of using the forum to direct people to your own site. This is against the forum rules prohibiting this kind of self-promotion.
I would expect the suspension to be lifted at the beginning of October. Please make sure that you don't sign up again in the interim, as members found to have more than one account are usually then subject to a ban.
07-08-13, 08:24 AM
#315
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Re: Address MOD Questions....?
We all find certain things annoying, CRM114, but I am not sure that you are being reasonable in citing this because, if you are referring to the thread here, your above post and my in-thread comment bear exactly the same time stamp.
07-08-13, 09:33 AM
#316
Re: Address MOD Questions....?
I see a comment by you buried in someone else's post, not as the final posting in the thread. If it was the last comment in the thread (logical) it wouldn't require comparing time stamps. But thanks for the snark.
And DVDTalk's core business now is Music talk? Discussing other music sites is off limits? How ridiculous - not that I was involved in the discussion.
And DVDTalk's core business now is Music talk? Discussing other music sites is off limits? How ridiculous - not that I was involved in the discussion.
Last edited by CRM114; 07-08-13 at 09:38 AM.
07-08-13, 09:42 AM
#317
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
Re: Address MOD Questions....?
le sigh
07-08-13, 09:47 AM
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Damned if you do...
<strike>As this appears to be a repeated instance of a member attempting to dictate precisely how a moderator should carry out his duties and the time-frame in which these duties should be undertaken, I am recusing myself and referring any further response to IB and mods not having had prior involvement with said member</strike>.
Originally Posted by own_inthread_explanation
first post referencing another site copied to mod forum for discussion. Thread closed to avoid temptation to test what is currently allowed in terms of discussing "competing" sites.
Last edited by benedict; 07-09-13 at 06:01 AM. Reason: Superseded...
07-08-13, 10:14 AM
#319
Re: Address MOD Questions....?
Oh please.
It was just a suggestion. You appeared to want to appear orderly and transparent. My suggestion was a way to achieve that.
I don't know what prior involvement you are speaking about but I have no problem with you. It appears you do, however, have a problem with me. If you don't want to interact with members and suggestions, close this thread.
It was just a suggestion. You appeared to want to appear orderly and transparent. My suggestion was a way to achieve that.
I don't know what prior involvement you are speaking about but I have no problem with you. It appears you do, however, have a problem with me. If you don't want to interact with members and suggestions, close this thread.
07-08-13, 10:50 AM
#320
Re: Address MOD Questions....?
I think this is a fair expectation to have a comment as to why a thread was closed. If you don't see comments, let me or one of the other mods know and we will either correct it in thread or let you know why the thread was closed.
07-08-13, 11:36 AM
#321
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Address MOD Questions....?
Curious as to what defines a "competing" site? Anything movie, music, book, or otherwise entertainment related? Politics? Gambling? We throw a pretty wide net here...
I didn't see what transpired in the music thread, but if, for instance, I'm involved in a discussion on another site about the movies of Ozu and wanted to refer to that thread here, would that be feasible or forbidden?
I didn't see what transpired in the music thread, but if, for instance, I'm involved in a discussion on another site about the movies of Ozu and wanted to refer to that thread here, would that be feasible or forbidden?
07-08-13, 11:40 AM
#322
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
Re: Address MOD Questions....?
Originally Posted by own_inthread_explanation
first post referencing another site copied to mod forum for discussion. Thread closed to avoid temptation to test what is currently allowed in terms of discussing "competing" sites.
first post referencing another site copied to mod forum for discussion. Thread closed to avoid temptation to test what is currently allowed in terms of discussing "competing" sites.
07-08-13, 11:46 AM
#323
Re: Address MOD Questions....?
Curious as to what defines a "competing" site? Anything movie, music, book, or otherwise entertainment related? Politics? Gambling? We throw a pretty wide net here...
I didn't see what transpired in the music thread, but if, for instance, I'm involved in a discussion on another site about the movies of Ozu and wanted to refer to that thread here, would that be feasible or forbidden?
I didn't see what transpired in the music thread, but if, for instance, I'm involved in a discussion on another site about the movies of Ozu and wanted to refer to that thread here, would that be feasible or forbidden?
07-08-13, 01:30 PM
#324
Re: Address MOD Questions....?
What's goofy is that it's a sub forum. I can understand if someone is sending people to other sites for blu-ray or DVD stuff. If someone posts a link to ARS Technica in the Tech forum, is that a competing site? I think most of us are adults who use various websites and get info about websites from other websites. Keeping everything bottled up and chastising users isn't a way to meet the ends talked about - a lightening of the load and transparency.
And VinVega, thanks for the reply.
And VinVega, thanks for the reply.
07-08-13, 05:01 PM
#325
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Re: Address MOD Questions....?
Okay, so a guy registers for the site and his first move is to resurrect a long dead thread and post a link to a website -- obvious spammer, should be banned. I get that. But since when does that warrant shutting down the entire thread? Just in case people start discussing things and stuff? What do you think this is, kindergarten?