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TV Talk: Threads Discussing Bootlegs, Torrents, Illegal Downloads

Old 07-29-07, 08:16 PM
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TV Talk: Threads Discussing Bootlegs, Torrents, Illegal Downloads

There are quite a few discussions about TV shows that won't premeire for another month or two. In some cases, the OP is actually promoting the use of torrents:

Reaper:
Original Desmond: "The pilot is available in the usual places (so is the Sarah Connor Chronicles)"

Sarah Connor Chronicles
"How did I miss this? When was it on?"
"welcome to <s>illegal internet download</s> TV Talk."

Pushing Daisies
"Where are you all watching this? I searched through the listings on my DVR and couldn't find it."
"And you won't. Only available on that bittorrent thingie."
"I've watched this and Reaper so far. Enjoyed this one a lot, and Reaper a little bit. Any others worth watching?"

Chuck
I asked: "Where'd you see it? The NBC site says it doesn't premeire until Sept. 24, I'd like to check it out!"
Original Desmond: "You can find it in the usual places which we can't mention"

Bionic Woman (Bootleggers take over on page 3 after downloading)
"I just watched the pilot and I liked it much better than the Sarah Connor Chronicles and the Reaper."

In the Weeds thread, I asked this:
"Where can we get the preview DVD?"
CKMorpheus: "Check your PMs."

That PM from CKMorpheus included a link to a site to download torrent software, and the specific file names to get the first two episodes of Weeds that won't air for another month. I did not ask how to get them illegally, I asked where to get the preview DVDs. The posts that follow basically consist of people telling me to 'just go away,' download or 'STFU,' etc. No one is worried about openly discussing illegal downloads, the number of threads makes this pretty clear.

Since the site is allowing these discussions, it would be nice if there was a subforum for bootlegs so those who use (and encourage the use of) torrents don't make the rest of us think we missed an early pilot or abc/nbc.com has an episode on their website for preview. Either that, or something like "BOOTLEG & TORRENT DISCUSSION" in the thread title. That way, the crazy people who watch TV shows when they premeire don't think there are screeners available (Best Buy giveaways, etc.).
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Old 07-29-07, 09:10 PM
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Hmm. Well (IMO), this is a commercial DVD site. I think that Geoff would find it hard to get advertising and support if he appeared to be encouraging (or even tolerating) illegal file downloading.
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Old 07-29-07, 09:35 PM
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Originally Posted by NCMojo
Hmm. Well (IMO), this is a commercial DVD site. I think that Geoff would find it hard to get advertising and support if he appeared to be encouraging (or even tolerating) illegal file downloading.
That makes sense, but the discussions are open and ads are in place. If the mods don't stop it, I'm just suggesting that it's in a different place so people who don't use p2p software aren't confused about people discussing their illegal downloads.

How can half a dozen bootleg/torrent threads on the first page of TV Talk not be considered tolerating it?


Last edited by Dignam; 07-29-07 at 09:39 PM.
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Old 07-30-07, 12:42 AM
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It looks like all those threads were talking about the episodes until you derailed them talking about torrents. As long as we're not talking about how to do it, then discussing shows before they air has been acceptable in the past. This was the case with The Shield and the first four episodes of 24.
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Old 07-30-07, 01:36 AM
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Originally Posted by chrisih8u
It looks like all those threads were talking about the episodes until you derailed them talking about torrents. As long as we're not talking about how to do it, then discussing shows before they air has been acceptable in the past. This was the case with The Shield and the first four episodes of 24.
I didn't derail anything, I simply asked where I could get the preview DVDs. I was then given explicit instructions on where to and how to obtain the both the torrent software and bootleg videos. That's when the discussion about torrrents began.

That's my point, if the discussions are acceptable, and as you point out they are, why not create a Bootleg/Torrent subforum for those who choose to break the law to hang out in? Reading the Bionic Woman thread should be discussing the cast, changes, etc., not spoilers or comparing it to illegal downloads of other premieres also not airing for 2 months. Otherwise, discussing the episode is (I thought) reserved for threads started after midnight the day of air.
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Old 07-30-07, 01:46 AM
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Except that we were discussing the tv show, not how to aquire the torrents. That's what TV Talk is for.

And you didn't "simply ask where you could get the preview dvds." You asked where to get see the show and someone gave you a link. Then you cried about it and complained until the thread was locked. Then you derailed another thread. (Chuck) And now you are starting another thread.

A subforum for torrents would be against he rules. Talking about a movie or a tv show isnt.

Sicko was discussed after the torrent was released.

http://forum.dvdtalk.com/showthread....ighlight=sicko

And this thread asked if we have ever downloaded a movie before.

http://forum.dvdtalk.com/showthread....ighlight=sicko

But neither discussed how to aquire them.
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Old 07-30-07, 01:58 AM
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Originally Posted by chrisih8u
Except that we were discussing the tv show, not how to aquire the torrents. That's what TV Talk is for.

A subforum for torrents would be against he rules. Talking about a movie or a tv show isnt.
Exactly.

Funny, I was going to start a thread asking if anyone thought the recent surge of "preair" episodes for these new shows was part of the studio's "campaign"..
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Old 07-30-07, 02:05 AM
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People always talk about leaked pilots. It's not like this is the first time this has ever happened, and it's not like DVDTalk is the only place that knows about them. People get excited about upcoming shows, and a lot of them don't mind downloading torrents to get to see upcoming shows a little early. And for the studio's, it's just extra "underground" hype so I doubt they mind that much. I agree that people probably shouldn't be linking to torrents, if you don't know what "the usual places" are, then just wait for the TV premier.
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Old 07-30-07, 02:07 AM
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Originally Posted by chrisih8u
Except that we were discussing the tv show, not how to aquire the torrents. That's what TV Talk is for.

And you didn't "simply ask where you could get the preview dvds." You asked where to get see the show and someone gave you a link.
Really?
Dignam: "Where can we get the preview DVD?"
The PM I received had links to torrent software and file names, as I stated in the OP.

In fact, SonOfAStu makes no secret that he's telling people how to acquire the torrents:

Dignam: "You hadn't watched them yet ("Will watch one of the next couple nights."), so the only other reason for bringing it up was to inform the torrent-happy people of their availability."
SonOfAStu: "No, not to brag. But yes, as a heads up to anyone who wanted to watch them early that they're available."

Translation: If you use torrents to download shows illegally, check this one out! If you don't download shows illegally, wait for the legal broadcast, Dudley Do-Right.

Originally Posted by chrisih8u
A subforum for torrents would be against he rules. Talking about a movie or a tv show isnt.

Sicko was discussed after the torrent was released.

http://forum.dvdtalk.com/showthread....ighlight=sicko

And this thread asked if we have ever downloaded a movie before.

http://forum.dvdtalk.com/showthread....ighlight=sicko

But neither discussed how to aquire them.
So let's talk about the last time we were on crystal meth and poked the eyes of kidnapped babies, but not mention the drug dealer or Free Candy van, and it's all good?

I get it that the mods let it happen despite it being illegal. You've provided examples that it's tolerated, so I'm not disputing that. (NCMojo might comment more on that, though.) I just think some type of disclaimer in the thread title would be fair, or a different section of TV Talk for people who want to discuss their bootleg viewing habits. It's frustrating to watch the second season of Weeds on DVD, see a discussion and consider getting Showtime to catch up on the new episodes OnDemand, and then be told that the discussion is only for people who use torrent software and download the shows illegally.

As you've shown, it's tolerated. So how would a subforum to keep those tolerated discussions in place until the air date be against the rules?
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Old 07-30-07, 02:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Dignam
Really?
Dignam: "Where can we get the preview DVD?"
The PM I received had links to torrent software and file names, as I stated in the OP.

In fact, SonOfAStu makes no secret that he's telling people how to acquire the torrents:

Dignam: "You hadn't watched them yet ("Will watch one of the next couple nights."), so the only other reason for bringing it up was to inform the torrent-happy people of their availability."
SonOfAStu: "No, not to brag. But yes, as a heads up to anyone who wanted to watch them early that they're available."

Translation: If you use torrents to download shows illegally, check this one out! If you don't download shows illegally, wait for the legal broadcast, Dudley Do-Right.


So let's talk about the last time we were on crystal meth and poked the eyes of kidnapped babies, but not mention the drug dealer or Free Candy van, and it's all good?

I get it that the mods let it happen despite it being illegal. You've provided examples that it's tolerated, so I'm not disputing that. (NCMojo might comment more on that, though.) I just think some type of disclaimer in the thread title would be fair, or a different section of TV Talk for people who want to discuss their bootleg viewing habits. It's frustrating to watch the second season of Weeds on DVD, see a discussion and consider getting Showtime to catch up on the new episodes OnDemand, and then be told that the discussion is only for people who use torrent software and download the shows illegally.

As you've shown, it's tolerated. So how would a subforum to keep those tolerated discussions in place until the air date be against the rules?

I agree that there should be something in the thread title indicating that there will be spoiler discussion of the tv show.

But while these shows being leaked certainly isnt new, it doesnt happen often enough to warrant its own subforum.
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Old 07-30-07, 04:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Dignam
That makes sense, but the discussions are open and ads are in place. If the mods don't stop it ...
Any discussion of illegally obtaining content will be closed when we are notified about it, as was the case with the "Weeds" thread. Discussions of the content itself may be allowed, since we can't necessarily know that there was anything illegal that took place when those discussing the material saw it.

I've went through the threads you mentioned and removed all the comments I saw that seemed related to obtaining content illegally. If you see anyone suggesting illegal methods of obtaining content, use the "Report Bad Post" button to let us know. After all, we can't clean up what we don't know exists.
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Old 07-30-07, 05:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Dead
Any discussion of illegally obtaining content will be closed when we are notified about it, as was the case with the "Weeds" thread. Discussions of the content itself may be allowed, since we can't necessarily know that there was anything illegal that took place when those discussing the material saw it.
When the OP clearly admits that he posted the thread as heads up to let people know 'it's out there' and then defends using torrents, there is zero question about where the content is from. When other users chime in and fully admit to using torrents because 'the networks have to be leaking this', there's zero question about where the content is from. Looking at the people defending torrents, it's obvious they are downloading content illegally.

These episodes aren't online through any legal channels, the networks don't have them up and they aren't promoting them (like NBC did with Andy Barket). So the policy is 'don't ask, don't tell'. But if you do tell, don't worry, someone has to report the post and then maybe we'll delete it, but keep on talking about it even though you've stated you use torrents. We'll let you continue the discussion.

Originally Posted by Dead
I've went through the threads you mentioned and removed all the comments I saw that seemed related to obtaining content illegally. If you see anyone suggesting illegal methods of obtaining content, use the "Report Bad Post" button to let us know. After all, we can't clean up what we don't know exists.
There are quite a few posts mentioning illegal downloads and torrents. I started this thread hoping to avoid seeing torrent discussions again, but I guess that can't be stopped, and anyone discussing them can do so knowing the only thing that will happen is their post might be removed. From what I've read (and seen myself by not getting emails through the Exchange forum), the forum 'send email to' feature is very hit and miss. So unless someone reports it (and that report is actually received by someone), everyone is free to discuss illegal content.

Sorry for wasting anyone's time, I guess I should have left this issue alone and recognized the truth when I saw it:

"Welcome to <s>illegal internet download</s> TV Talk."
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Old 07-30-07, 06:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Dignam
These episodes aren't online through any legal channels, the networks don't have them up and they aren't promoting them (like NBC did with Andy Barket). So the policy is 'don't ask, don't tell'. But if you do tell, don't worry, someone has to report the post and then maybe we'll delete it, but keep on talking about it even though you've stated you use torrents. We'll let you continue the discussion.
Frankly, I resent the implication that anyone who's seen any of these things viewed them thanks to torrents.

Secondly, to also assume that the people responsible for these shows (nets, creators, etc.) didn't have anything to do with the "leaking" of these shows might be slightly naive. It's a shame that they'd never come right out and say "Yes, we put it out there. We wanted the "buzz" that people who are actively anticipating these shows will give us (since they would be the ones "obtaining" and discussing these shows). Heck, we might even be able to use it in the promotion this fall."
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Old 07-30-07, 06:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Rogue588
Frankly, I resent the implication that anyone who's seen any of these things viewed them thanks to torrents.
I've seen all kinds of things over the years before release completely legally, but why follow the rules and report the posts when you can transparently grandstand like this? And I interpret using a sig for the cavalier accusation of all TV Talk members as illegal downloaders, not to mention the implied accusation that the forum at large endorses illegal activity, as a personal attack on all of us.

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Old 07-30-07, 07:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Rogue588
Frankly, I resent the implication that anyone who's seen any of these things viewed them thanks to torrents.

Secondly, to also assume that the people responsible for these shows (nets, creators, etc.) didn't have anything to do with the "leaking" of these shows might be slightly naive.
Unless you get a screener, and it's not available legally through the network's website, where else are they getting the episodes? If they had a screener, no one would mention torrents, illegal downloads, or 'places we can't mention' (even though they clearly can, and do). And unless the network gives permission for the torrent (which they don't), the MPAA doesn't care if Jimmy Bootlegger assumes it was leaked for buzz. They'd put them on their official site and promote it, or sell them through iTunes.

Originally Posted by das Monkey
I interpret using a sig for the cavalier accusation of all TV Talk members as illegal downloaders, not to mention the implied accusation that the forum at large endorses illegal activity, as a personal attack on all of us.

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It's not a cavalier accusation of all TV Talk members, it's a direct quote from Michael Corvin. Many people have quotes in their signatures. The activity is so common place that it's joked about. You can't put that on anyone but the bootleggers.

Last edited by Dignam; 07-30-07 at 07:14 PM.
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Old 07-30-07, 08:56 PM
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You need some help down?

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Old 07-30-07, 08:59 PM
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Holy shit! Seriously, who are you. You have to tell us now. This is completely INSANE! Are you doing this as a joke? Am I being Punk'd? I used to download that show by the way. Better lock this thread.
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Old 07-30-07, 09:59 PM
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Last edited by Matt; 07-31-07 at 06:39 PM.
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Old 07-30-07, 10:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Dignam
And unless the network gives permission for the torrent (which they don't), the MPAA doesn't care if Jimmy Bootlegger assumes it was leaked for buzz. They'd put them on their official site and promote it, or sell them through iTunes.
What does the MPAA have to do with TV?
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Old 07-30-07, 10:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Rogue588
What does the MPAA have to do with TV?
The word 'television' is in their mission statement. I'd say that's clue #1.

MPAA.org:
The Voice and Advocate of the American Motion Picture, Home Video and Television Industries
Also: MPAA targets TV download sites
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Old 07-30-07, 10:22 PM
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This is amazing. There's a 3-month old, 6 page thread in Tech Talk with the sole purpose of begging for and sharing invitation links to one of the nets more famous bootlegging destinations (which includes a grovel from a former DVD Talk Mod) and yet a harmless thread discussing the first few episodes of the new season of Weeds gets locked.

This site never ceases to amaze me in it's hypocrisy.
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Old 07-30-07, 10:38 PM
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Originally Posted by SonOfAStu
This is amazing. There's a 3-month old, 6 page thread in Tech Talk with the sole purpose of begging for and sharing invitation links to one of the nets more famous bootlegging destinations (which includes a grovel from a former DVD Talk Mod) and yet a harmless thread discussing the first few episodes of the new season of Weeds gets locked.

This site never ceases to amaze me in it's hypocrisy.
From what I've seen, I have to agree. It appears the 'rules' are only in place to protect the site from legal issues. Discussions are allowed to continue, and sometimes thrive, unless someone reports it. Even then, a few posts are simply edited and it's back to 'don't ask don't tell'- assuming that report isn't lost on a server and never read.

I was originally just frustrated with the Weeds discussion, but you bring up a great point, SonOfAStu. I wonder if DVD Empire, DVD Planet, DeepDiscount, Amazon, AllPosters, Buy.com and other sites that advertise here would mind the lax policy enforcement that allows people to openly discuss (and as you mentioned, sharing invite links for) the use of torrents for illegal downloads?
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Old 07-30-07, 11:11 PM
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Originally Posted by SonOfAStu
This site never ceases to amaze me in it's hypocrisy.
I hate to say how true that has sometimes become. I came into this forum to post a thread about this but saw this one and decided to ask the question here.

Why does everyone get their panties in a wad when talking about bootlegs here? They close threads just for discussing them...be it their quality, trading them, buying or selling them, providing site info on where to find them and even seeing a certain one (such as the Weeds thread) and then there are ads selling The Wonder Years Complete Set, Song of the South dvds, The Smurfs collection and Howard the Duck on the front of the Bargains section.

http://www.dvdtalk.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?forumid=1

Go to the Bargains forum and look under the "DVD Talk headlines" section. It says the ads are posted by Google but they are there constantly. Direct links to bootlegs on this site for certain items that we can't discuss for fear of banishment for doing so. Money talks here I guess.

I personally don't mind bootleg discussion but at least be consistent. Don't freak when someone brings them up if you want to sell ads for them on your site.
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Old 07-30-07, 11:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Dignam
The Voice and Advocate of the American Motion Picture, Home Video and Television Industries
Ah. I guess they haven't gotten around to updating their acronym. Or maybe TVAAOTAMPHVATI doesn't roll off the tongue..

Originally Posted by brianluvdvd
Why does everyone get their panties in a wad when talking about bootlegs here? They close threads just for discussing them...be it their quality, trading them, buying or selling them, providing site info on where to find them and even seeing a certain one (such as the Weeds thread) and then there are ads selling The Wonder Years Complete Set, Song of the South dvds, The Smurfs collection and Howard the Duck on the front of the Bargains section.

Go to the Bargains forum and look under the "DVD Talk headlines" section. It says the ads are posted by Google but they are there constantly. Direct links to bootlegs on this site for certain items that we can't discuss for fear of banishment for doing so. Money talks here I guess.

I personally don't mind bootleg discussion but at least be consistent. Don't freak when someone brings them up if you want to sell ads for them on your site.
I'm pretty sure Google determines what ads randomly show up in their banner. I'm also pretty sure this has been addressed before.
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Old 07-30-07, 11:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Rogue588
I'm pretty sure Google determines what ads randomly show up in their banner. I'm also pretty sure this has been addressed before.
Yeah, it comes up every now and then. Just do a quick search for "bootlegs" in this folder it'll bring up a few threads where it's been asked about over the years, and I'm sure it's been brought up more than what the search shows.
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