Benefit of the doubt... obsolete? (aka "My Last Post"?)
#1
Benefit of the doubt... obsolete? (aka "My Last Post"?)
Just saw the X3 debacle, and personal attacks aside, I think the OP was just trying to confirm that a DVD that's 4.08GB is not a legitimate release, and came here to ask the knowledgeable among us. I'm the first person to tell bootleggers to get lost, but this guy came in saying he got a DVD from a supposedly-legitimate distributor and it looked to him like a bootleg, because it was an A-list title, yet it was only a single-layer DVD.
I think it was a little quick for someone to immediately jump on him as being a bootlegger because it was quite clear to me that he was trying to confirm whether a disc he got was in fact a bootleg -- he wasn't asking because he wanted to MAKE one. For that reason, I think I'd be throwing around the "a-word" if I came into a forum asking a perfectly innocent question (that ironically was actually an attempt to PREVENT bootleggers from getting away with passing their discs off as genuine) and the only response I got was someone calling ME a bootlegger.
Guess they'll ban me for this now, but if people in this forum are gonna shoot first and ask questions later, what would I be losing? Just don't be so quick to judge people, especially based on an unclear post because English isn't their native language. I'd wager that wherever this guy is from, he does much better at posting in English than we would trying to post in his language.
I think it was a little quick for someone to immediately jump on him as being a bootlegger because it was quite clear to me that he was trying to confirm whether a disc he got was in fact a bootleg -- he wasn't asking because he wanted to MAKE one. For that reason, I think I'd be throwing around the "a-word" if I came into a forum asking a perfectly innocent question (that ironically was actually an attempt to PREVENT bootleggers from getting away with passing their discs off as genuine) and the only response I got was someone calling ME a bootlegger.
Guess they'll ban me for this now, but if people in this forum are gonna shoot first and ask questions later, what would I be losing? Just don't be so quick to judge people, especially based on an unclear post because English isn't their native language. I'd wager that wherever this guy is from, he does much better at posting in English than we would trying to post in his language.
#2
DVD Talk Special Edition
i dont know anything about bootlegging but why would it matter if someone knew how many gbs a movie had? just wondering why you thought he was trying to make illegal copies of the movie
#4
Originally Posted by Tarantino
This should probably go into the feedback forum, Mike.
= J
= J
#5
Originally Posted by acubfaninmd
i dont know anything about bootlegging but why would it matter if someone knew how many gbs a movie had? just wondering why you thought he was trying to make illegal copies of the movie
#7
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
Personally I appreciate it when the mods/admins swiftly give the boot to someone who violates forum rules within their first few posts. If you aren't on your best behavior at that point you're probably never going to improve. When I take a look at other large forums around the net I'm amazed at the level of civility and maturity that exists in most of the discussions here.
#8
DVD Talk Legend
Where are the links to these threads?
I think there might be some people who rush to label someone a bootlegger or such, but I think it is pretty rare that the admins mistakenly ban someone over that.
It is true that some members try to gang up on one poster (ex. 'InBeforeTheLock' posts or chat about the spam links) - they often forget that is not the appropriate action since there is that "report this post" link on the left side if thought that there is a problem.
I think there might be some people who rush to label someone a bootlegger or such, but I think it is pretty rare that the admins mistakenly ban someone over that.
It is true that some members try to gang up on one poster (ex. 'InBeforeTheLock' posts or chat about the spam links) - they often forget that is not the appropriate action since there is that "report this post" link on the left side if thought that there is a problem.
Last edited by Ranger; 03-05-07 at 07:16 PM.
#9
Originally Posted by WallyOPD
Personally I appreciate it when the mods/admins swiftly give the boot to someone who violates forum rules within their first few posts. If you aren't on your best behavior at that point you're probably never going to improve. When I take a look at other large forums around the net I'm amazed at the level of civility and maturity that exists in most of the discussions here.
#10
Originally Posted by Tarantino
If your opinion of this forum has dropped <i>that far</i>, there are other DVD forums out there.
= J
= J
#11
Originally Posted by Ranger
Where are the links to these threads?
http://forum.dvdtalk.com/showthread.php?t=494285
...and here's where he re-registered to try and get an answer and explain himself:
http://forum.dvdtalk.com/showthread.php?t=494291
My only question is why immediately ban someone? Suspension works just as well. It's simply a permanent solution to a temporary problem.
#12
DVD Talk Legend
Well, the poster who said "so you're the asshole who needs to get out." should have gotten reprimanded as well.
A personal attack, even directed towards spammers and bootleggers and such, is still a personal attack and shouldn't be tolerated at all since it sets a poor example for others.
Aside from that, seems like things were done right.
A personal attack, even directed towards spammers and bootleggers and such, is still a personal attack and shouldn't be tolerated at all since it sets a poor example for others.
Aside from that, seems like things were done right.
#13
Originally Posted by Ranger
Well, the poster who said "so you're the asshole who needs to get out." should have gotten reprimanded as well.
A personal attack, even directed towards spammers and bootleggers and such, is still a personal attack and shouldn't be tolerated at all since it sets a poor example for others.
Aside from that, seems like things were done right.
#14
DVD Talk Hero
The guy broke the two cardinal rules of the forum within a span of two hours on his first day. Whether he's a spammer or bootlegger is immaterial. Moderating is an art, not a science, and it seems clear that the judgment call made in this situation was the correct one.
das
das
#15
Originally Posted by das Monkey
The guy broke the two cardinal rules of the forum within a span of two hours on his first day. Whether he's a spammer or bootlegger is immaterial. Moderating is an art, not a science, and it seems clear that the judgment call made in this situation was the correct one.
das
das
As for moderating being an "art", it must be the art of deciding who to punish severely and who to let slide for not only doing exactly the same thing, but also instigating the whole thing to begin with, not to mention being someone who's been around long enough to know better as opposed to being a newbie. Besides, I've been here long enough to know that the first time people "break a cardinal rule", they're not immediately banned. Doesn't take any "science" to figure that out.
Last edited by Mike Adams; 03-07-07 at 05:55 PM.
#17
Originally Posted by crazyronin
Re-registering after a ban would be my guess.
Like I said, my problem is with the initial ban. If he had been suspended after the first "a-word", and then re-registered so he could heap more verbal abuse on poor DarthMarino, then sure, ban his ass. Just doesn't hold water with me, though. I know it doesn't have to, and the forum will go on, but hey, this is the "Feedback Forum", so I'm feeding back (makes annoying squealing sound).
By the way, not to hand the powers that be an excuse here, but like I said, I didn't see all this until it was over, so if he was initially suspended and then banned after the re-reg, then I understand that. Still, the typical response to an attack is an explanation of the unacceptable behavior, as was given, and an admonishment that if the behavior continues, a suspension will result. That's the "science" of moderation. The "art" is a moderator saying to himself "This guy can't half speak English, he's probably a bootlegger, and I've got a sweet trade (or some other mutually-beneficial activity ) pending with DarthMarino, so this bozo's outta here!"
Last edited by Mike Adams; 03-07-07 at 06:06 PM.
#18
DVD Talk Legend
it's a pretty clear case of new members being treated more harshly than current members.
For all we know, that member could have signed up three or four times in the past and it just wasn't noticed til after the thread was closed.
#19
Originally Posted by Ranger
I think this is very true, but considering what happened in such a short time...
For all we know, that member could have signed up three or four times in the past and it just wasn't noticed til after the thread was closed.
For all we know, that member could have signed up three or four times in the past and it just wasn't noticed til after the thread was closed.
#20
Retired
Originally Posted by Mike Adams
To me, it's a pretty clear case of new members being treated more harshly than current members. Why the zero-tolerance policy for newbies and the leniency on people who should know better? Seems ass-backward to me.
For the newbies, if the jump right into breaking rules, personal attacks and so forth it's a good sign that they're a troll and are just going to post problems. I've never seen any member during my almost 8 years posting here that started off posting rude, abrasive shit or otherwise breaking forum rules turn into a good, productive member of the forum community.
People that launch right into that kind of stuff are trolls who've probably banned from many sites before.
#21
Originally Posted by Josh Hinkle
I've never seen any member during my almost 8 years posting here that started off posting rude, abrasive shit or otherwise breaking forum rules turn into a good, productive member of the forum community.
You're obviously not aware of Groucho.....
#23
DVD Talk Legend
Just wondering why you care so much about this, Adams?
I've been to a lot of forums on the internet over my years, and this one is the most consistantly moderated. I actually appreciate it, although I've had one or two run ins with 'the law' as well. If you go somewhere else, as you doggedly claim you will, you'll see how it can be at other forums...and you'll probably come crawling back, tail between the legs.
= J
I've been to a lot of forums on the internet over my years, and this one is the most consistantly moderated. I actually appreciate it, although I've had one or two run ins with 'the law' as well. If you go somewhere else, as you doggedly claim you will, you'll see how it can be at other forums...and you'll probably come crawling back, tail between the legs.
= J
#24
Originally Posted by Tarantino
Just wondering why you care so much about this, Adams?
I've been to a lot of forums on the internet over my years, and this one is the most consistantly moderated. I actually appreciate it, although I've had one or two run ins with 'the law' as well. If you go somewhere else, as you doggedly claim you will, you'll see how it can be at other forums...and you'll probably come crawling back, tail between the legs.
I've been to a lot of forums on the internet over my years, and this one is the most consistantly moderated. I actually appreciate it, although I've had one or two run ins with 'the law' as well. If you go somewhere else, as you doggedly claim you will, you'll see how it can be at other forums...and you'll probably come crawling back, tail between the legs.
#25
Originally Posted by Josh Hinkle
The long time members have shown they can contribute to the forum, and that whatever infraction was likely just an out of character out burst.
For the newbies, if the jump right into breaking rules, personal attacks and so forth it's a good sign that they're a troll and are just going to post problems. I've never seen any member during my almost 8 years posting here that started off posting rude, abrasive shit or otherwise breaking forum rules turn into a good, productive member of the forum community.
People that launch right into that kind of stuff are trolls who've probably banned from many sites before.
For the newbies, if the jump right into breaking rules, personal attacks and so forth it's a good sign that they're a troll and are just going to post problems. I've never seen any member during my almost 8 years posting here that started off posting rude, abrasive shit or otherwise breaking forum rules turn into a good, productive member of the forum community.
People that launch right into that kind of stuff are trolls who've probably banned from many sites before.
That's just the point -- this guy didn't "launch right into that kind of stuff", he got labeled as a bootlegger right off the bat by DarthMarino, and was actually just trying to make sure someone wasn't passing off a bootleg on him, which apparently they were. Like I said, I think I'd be calling someone an asshole too if that happened to me. I've also made it clear that I have no tolerance for bootleggers, but there was a colossal rush to judgment by more than one person in this situation, and instead of it being a situation where it's one post that DarthMarino could apologize for and move on, it's a permanent banishment of someone who has just as much right to be here as you or I do.
You'll never find out if someone can contribute to the forum if they never get the chance. It's not like this guy started out by saying "Hey all you assholes, how big is the X3 DVD supposed to be?" If figuring out who's a troll and who can contribute is an art, there's at least one moderator here who hasn't mastered it, and a system of higher-ups who are saddled with the choice of either supporting this guy or showing an embarrasing hole in the armor.