ok boatdrinky matey now that i have read all the replies here goes

well i've been here half a year longer than you, so don't you dare denigrate people who have ONLY been here since such and such a date and say they don't know anything about what this site was ! because i could damm well say the same about you ! i can say anyone who hasn't been here since 1999 knows jacksh*t as well and that would include you ! but i won't because i know better and i know that EVERYONE's opinion is equal ! regardless of their post count or their date joined!

I'd not unhappy with the site before, i'm not unhappy with it now. I know how to have fun WITHIN the rules.

I do frown down upon anyone without the intelligence to scan a page and decide what they do and don't want to click on ! there are many many threads i don't want to see whether they be padding type threads or certain religious threads. you know what ? i just don't click on them !

I admit i come here to fun. I leave most of my brain work for work because i have a pretty demanding job as many people here do.

All Soupy was saying that this place isn't as fun as it used to be. All i'm saying is it can still be as fun as you want it to be :)

I totally agree :)

I couldn't have said it better myself. I lurked in March or April 1999 and began posting in May 1999. I'm glad to see the forum becoming more like it was. Screw the "fun" pads. We need threads that invoke conversatons. Certainly there can be a conversation on something silly, I'm not saying we need debates. It's just that there isn't much of a sense of community if 80% of the post don't require any thought at all and can be replied to with a few words. The new rules seem to be helping this. If we lose some people, fine, you can't please everyone all the time. If Geoff didn't make changes he would lose people like me, so either way some members are going to be upset. I also think the new forum areas are great as they foster more conversation on the specific topics, make the topics easy to find, and it's easy to avoid the ones you don't like.

your opinion is as valued as anyone who has been here since 2000 or 1999

don't let anyone tell you otherwise !

I thought of this place as a forum where adults hang out and enjoy themselves. I do not really care if we have nude pics or not. however I also do not think they are a problem.


Geoff has said the servers are overloaded. Many members offered to pay money or find new ways to get money into this site since the click thrus were not generating the income.
Instead Geoff stayed with the click thru method and so far it is still not generating the money needed or so it seems based on Geoff's statements.

Cutting edge to me- not a site where one can not joke around with a friend for fear of being banned or suspended.

Not a site where one is so afraid a kid or sensitive adult might come into a mature marked thread and see something that bothers them that we restrict what is said or posted on that site or suspensions or banning might happen.

where any word that is offensive even not spelled correctly as a joke might result in a suspension or banning.

what is different about this place now- one word it is less fun to me and others. will this change. I hope so.

I also think Keyser Soze and gcribbs summed things up very well :)

Josh i think the forum has room for both. Not everyone wants to talk 'DEEP and MEANINGFUL" all the time.I've started my fair share of very serious lenghty debate threads, also my fair share of fun 'don't need much thought' threads.I like both! I agree that blatant padding thread going is good. But you have to realise that people are here for different reasons and not just the same reason that you are here for Josh which is mainly serious discussion.

You say that someone is gonna get upset and leave. Well i, as a manager have always looked for solutions which cater for everyone, you have to ! you can't disregard a certain group just because you disagree with them ! that's bad management ! As a manager you have a responsibility to ALL your staff and not just the ones you like and agree with (i've actually dealt with a situation like this , this year, with a lady who everyone disagreed with and disliked, but i had to find a way for everyone to get along and i did!)

I don't agree with this comment "If we lose some people, fine, you can't please everyone all the time. "

you are saying it's ok to lose other people as long as it's not you ! unlike yourself i don't place myself as any more important that any other member. I don't want to lose anyone ! Not you, Not soupy, not anyone ! You are saying or at the least implying that you are more important that these 'other' people! well that to me is not true. everyone is equal. Trust me Joshyboy just like you don't care about the fact that these people will go, there are others who would care just as little if you go ! Tis a fact of life.

I value EVERYONE

TO: Soup, Des, gcribbs, Keyser, gotdvd, Bandoman, and whoever else so fervently disagrees:

Would one of you please answer the questions I posted? Please? Here they are:

Thank you.

The funny thing is that this "you can leave thought" has cropped up a lot in this thread- or maybe i am being hypersensitive.

I have not agreed with Josh at all on the issue of post counts and pad threads. why because What i think of as a pad is not what others view as a pad.

In fact a post that just says "PAD" can be funny in the right context.

However I respect the fact that he wanted to change this place and make it better. I just see some of the changes as not being positive community building changes. Why can I not joke around with my friends here. say a sharp reply but put a ;) for fun- because i might be suspended :(

I still post and reply because I want this forum and website to be successful also.

I do not want anyone to leave at all. especially due to them feeling they are not wanted here.

lastly- Josh says-It's just that there isn't much of a sense of community if 80% of the post don't require any thought at all and can be replied to with a few words.

The amount of words or thought do not show a sense of community. It shows when people help one another or go out of their way to assist a member. I have seen that at times here and I hope we continue to see it.

That was an excellent post Keyser, and is exactly how I feel too :)

I did respond to you- just read my post.

some of the changes are more a sense of feeling about a place.

have I been rude or crass to you or others. I would hope that even those who I disagree with would not feel i am that way in my posting manner.

Do you?

you say-Other than some fewer worthless/rude/mean posts?

What is worthless to you is not to me. When i was posting in the shortest thread- I was posting pics of a none mature nature. I feel cokeguy and I were having fun. Both of us had been at the website for a long time and had never met each other before.

Was the thread a waste. I am sure many would find it a waste. I had some fun. worthless to you maybe. but fun to me nevertheless.

did you read my post to you about my thoughts. what do you think about them?

you know Gcribbs, that is soo true

whenever an 'other' has been in need, in real need, i can honestly say that EVERYONE has come to the party

ones which come to mind are Kenwood's daughter being sick, another other whose deaf cousin i think it is was sexually assaulted, others being sick, others having relationship problems etc

When the need was there , the other forum responded, i can't recall it ever NOT responding!

that to me as well is community, not just debating highly serious topics till the cows come home.

Soupy mentioned cutting edge so you really have to ask him that but i think he means the buzz has gone. It's doesn't come down to specific posts or post types, just the aura, everyone has gone a bit sterile. In my post to Soupy, i am telling him that that doesn't have to be the case. There are new rules sure but you can have fun within the new rules. E.g. mature pic posting, i have posted mature pics since the new rules, i've just followed the new rules (no links to porn sites) and no dramas, none of my threads have been locked. I'm telling Soupy if can do the same if he so wishes.

I personally don't have any problems with the new rules, I think Geoff has done what he had to do but i do have a problem with people pushing hard to turn the forum into 'their' 100% ideal forum. There are things i don't think are ideal but others want them so that's cool with me. I just think people have to realise that the forum caters for all kinds of people with all kinds of reasons for coming here, that's all.

That pretty much covers it ...

Thanks mate ...

:)

Okay... I'm assuming then that your answer to the question of "Just how different is this place than before?" is that it is very different? Is this correct? And you are mentioning the 'shortest thread' thread as evidence of this, is this correct?

And am I to assume that your answer to the question of "Other than some fewer worthless/rude/mean posts?" is that you believe that there have been many more deleted/removed posts/threads than just sarcastic responses/attacks/, crudeness, etc? Now, I know that "crude" is subjective. When I mention this I am mostly talking about it in the form of... say cidmo's threads. He posted nude pics on a regular basis. They were your basic Playboy type of nude stuff and there was never a problem. Then one day he posts some pics where the women are not just posing but rather spreading themselves open, and Geoff draws a line. This is the type of thing I'm referring to in the "crude" context.

Am I to assume that your answer to "If you think it is kindergarten now, what has it been for the past 10 months?" is again that you simply do not feel it has been 'kindergarten' for the past 10 months? And then should I also assume that you feel that in the past week or two (which is the time frame this thread is speaking about - since that's when Geoff made the changes) this site has dipped into an immaturity level that didn't exist prior to Geoff's new "rules?"

And am I also to assume that your answer to the question(s) "And what's the complaint exactly? That Geoff has cracked down on people being rude or crass? Is that why you were here in the first place?" is that your complaint is that he has not just cracked down on crudeness (as already qualified), nor has he cracked down on rudeness (the sarcastic responses/attacks)?

And am I to assume that your answer to the question about "Is that why you were here?" is no? That you were/are not here simply for that?

I am sorry for the tone of this post - I am in no way mocking you (or trying to be negative in any way), but rather I am just trying to understand where you're coming from and how you answered my queries.

I guess I am not seeing what everyone else is. Other than a few (and yes, a very few) threads being closed that might not have been two weeks ago, I just don't see "all the fun" that has left this place in the past week - the subject of this (Soup's) thread.

And I guess I just don't see how with these new "rules" that there is not as great an opportunity to have fun as there was a week ago?

Now, more ?'s...

As far as things becoming sterile in the past week... again, I'm sorry for not getting this like you all do, but just how is this site "sterile" now as compared to a week ago? Simply because you can't be as sarcastic as before? Which actually isn't even true - if your sarcasm is in good spirit (think Cranky) then there is no problem now and never has been. And if it's the lack of "spread eagle" nude shots (or women with bowls of c*m) that one can no longer post - then I ask again - is that why you were here at *DVD* Talk?

1. Sarcasm ... things that were in jest were misconstrued and improperly analyzed by "upper-management".

2. Porn ... oh my God ... we actually agree on something. Mark this day down on your calendar ...

I'll take a stab at it Guyot:

I hadn't said that it's kindergarten, but I do feel that the edge is gone. The edge was the <B>feeling</B> that you could post a silly thread, or a mature link thread. You felt that as long as you weren't <B>personally</B> trying to offend one certain person, than your thread, (or post for that matter) was 'okay'. It was a feeling of this is a place to "let loose". Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying start a thread with the title [PAD HERE], but at the same time you could post funny things.

Example, I had posted in the past "How many people can post here before Keyser gets into the office in S.F. tomorrow morning".... now was that thread meaningful? absolutely not, was it fun, probably not for some.... did some find humor in it and post "Keyser, where are you? are you late again?"... yes they did. Were there posts "PADS" no, not to them. Maybe you, or someone else would consider that a PAD thread, but it wasn't intended that way. Does it REALLY matter if you consider my post a PAD or not? No it doesn't. Does it matter if I consider your post a PAD, No it doesn't.

The fact of the matter is that people post different ways, depending on them, the topic, etc. I agree that blatant padding should be nipped by the MODS, but as far as taking away certain threads (word assoc.) because you or someone else considers it a PAD thread is not the answer. People are different, and we amuse ourselves in different ways. We don't have to agree, but we shouldn't tell each other that "your post isn't meaningful, and therefore is a PAD". I take everything I read in the OTHER (along with the other forums) with a grain of salt.

How "different" is the place now you ask? Just look at it, the posts in the OTHER are probably coming in at 1/2 speed (that would be my guess) I've seen nights in the past where threads would slide off the first page in a matter of minutes, because there were so many different people posting many different topics. Right now in the OTHER the bottom thread was last posted in at 6pm. Only 14 threads have been posted in over the last 30 minutes. Granted this is not scientific, and Geoff could run stats if he wanted to, but I have noticed quite a drop in the posting patterns in what we call OTHER.

What made the OTHER a cool place were the people and their posts. Right now there seems to be less of both. Maybe it's because of the software screw up, maybe it's the rules, who knows. All I know is there is a different feeling there.

As far as you saying "What is the complaint exactly, is it Geoff has cracked down on the rude and crass people"..... you're wrong.

What's rude or crass about word assoc. Did it offend you? Or how about the pic threads, were those rude and crass? Did they specifically say "GUYOT: Look at this thread". It didn't, therefore I can not see your point. Same as all the political threads we had for quite some time, I didn't find it rude that there were threads there I didn't want to take part in, I just didn't click them. Even if I did and seen something I didn't agree with, I would never make a big thing out of it. You can read and see anything you want on this thing we call the world wide web. If something isn't to your liking or offends you, pass it up. It's just that easy. I didn't come here to be rude or crass, and have enjoyed it here for the last year and 1/2.

Strangely enough I have seen more people be mean to each other over the last few days than over the last year+ I've been here. I just can't understand why some people like to argue just to argue.

I was here to have fun, and the only person who makes the rules is Geoff. All the changes he's made are for a reason, and I don't have to agree with him. All I know is once the reigns tighten, people post less. Maybe they're not sure if that picture will get them a 1-week suspension. Or that thread they want to start "Is worthless" and will be closed.

The OTHER <B>had</B> a feeling of anything goes </b>maybe</B> some took it a little too far, but don't change the forum over it, take out the people who are pushing too much.

I hope that answers your question.
Sorry for the length

-Keyser Soze
###

[Edited by Keyser Soze on 04-27-01 at 10:00 PM]

I know I'll be considered a "less worthy" member since I only have 300 posts but I'll have to chime in with my 2 cents. I've been a member since April 1999 (lurked for 2 months) and while I may not post as much as most of you do, I do visit the site on an almost daily basis (up until a few months ago) and try to click on some banners whenever time permits to support the site.

That said, I do think that this forum has been on a downhill slide for the past few months. All I saw was pad posts, IBTL posts, and members constantly attacking each other (is it any wonder I have so few post counts?). Worse, despite numerous appeals to ban the IBTL posts in the feedback forum, Geoff did not address the situation.

Just as I was ready to defect to HTF, Geoff cracks down on the padding & puts in the new software. With the additional forums, I thought DVDTalk was back at being at its best (that is, until the old forum software had to be restored). Imagine during the height of the 2000 elections, rather than having to wade through all the inane posts I could have just gone to the TV Talk forum to find the thread I was looking for. Even better, I could have just blocked all of classicman's posts!! :)

I do have to say that I agree with Boatdrinks' logic when he says "if pads are banned, and you say the fun is gone, then for you padding is fun" (or something to that effect). I don't think Geoff is banning the DVDTalk Survivor Game or the riddle threads or the Joke threads or the Jackskeleton/Jules Winfield threads so there is a lot more fun that can be had. I also have to say that it does get irritating when the top 5 threads in the forum were bumped up because a poster answered "Word" to all of them. No offense Soup, and I hate to mention your name here since you have also contributed a lot of great threads here.

Also, for the life of me, I can't imagine where a response of "PAD" can be funny in ANY context.

Geoff, hope you can try to implement your new software again. If you do decide to set up a paypal account I will most assuredly contribute.

Again, just my 2 cents. But then again, I only have 300+ posts so what do I know?

None taken ... :)

My main point had nothing to do with nudes or padding ...

It had to do with the atmosphere, that's all ...

Verbal,
Whatever part of your post I didn't quote was because I basically agreed with it. Now...

This always happens on Friday nights. As far back as October '99 - when I first found the place.

As for less posts - is this a bad thing? Isn't it quality over quantity? Now, i'm not trying to start a battle, but I still don't see how the past week's new rules kill much creativity.

I dealt with the "crude/crass" thing in my response to gcribbs. As for word assoc. I think Geoff has tried to make it clear to folks that the site can only take so much. And what you and Soup and others must remember is that this is DVD Talk - it is not The Other Forum. The otter Farm is simply one part of this entire place.

I know that Soup and a lot of other members spend almost all their time in Other. But they are thousands of members here who rarely or never go there. Why should they have to suffer technical problems because guys want Word Assoc (and the like) threads? Not flaming, just asking.

Agree. And IMHO, 95% of the arguing this past week has been generated by people who are pissed off about the new rules.

Again, I don't see how the loss of Word Assoc, or very nude pics, or the few other 'banned' threads/posts has cost this place fun or creativity.

Can't you or Soup or whoever come up with something just as fun, creative, fulfilling (for yourselves) as Word Assoc? I'm just asking.

Ah, here we come to what generated my original "Soup doesn't know what it was like prior to summer 2000." Prior to the summer of Jack ( ;) ) this place was a riot. The Other forum, even DVD Talk was full of really funny, witty posts and people.

Why should "Anything goes" be the thing that keeps you here? You have made friends here, right? Learned stuff, laughed your ass off, why can't you be satisified with that? Why do you need to know that you (or whoever) can post anything they want to in order to get something out of this place?

Again, I'm not telling you that you're wrong, or not as good as me, or whatever other things folks have read into my posts. I'm an honestly asking the question...

Thanks for the reply.


[Edited by BoatDrinks on 04-27-01 at 08:50 PM]

For the record, I never said anything like this.

This thread was never about padding, and I don't recall ever getting into that.

But we appreciate the well thought out post. :)

It almost seems like we all need a timeout. This whole board is very heated it seems. I think I'm gonna be quiet for awhile, and just watch.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by BoatDrinks
[B]Verbal,
Whatever part of your post I didn't quote was because I basically agreed with it. Now...</B>

See though, it isn’t just tonight, it has slowed down a bit since last weekend. I’m not saying that it’s only because on the “NEW” forum, but I’m sure that did play a part in it. As for you <B>“Quality over Quantity”</B> quote, well.. lets just say to each his own. I’m sure if everyone went to the first couple of pages (everything posted today) we’d all find something we wouldn’t consider a “quality” thread. But see that’s the cool thing about OTHER, it’s for everybody, and is about everything. There are always going to be threads there that someone has not interest in, or feels that it has no merit. Example: Page 1, there’s a thread about a radio station saying that some race car driver died. I don’t watch racing, so I don’t care. Does that make that thread “less” on the “quality” scale? Maybe to me, but it doesn’t matter. There was 1 reply to that thread (and it was RandyC fixing the title). As long as the thread had some merit to the original poster, and any people with replies, then it did it’s job. Last weeks rules don’t “kill” creativity, it just changes the atmosphere, the feeling people get in there.

I agree that the OTHER is just a part of this site, but just because we’ve gotten so big is no reason to turn your back on it. I do understand that it is DVDTalk, and I do go into the other forums, I pick up the occasional deal, post in a DVD thread, etc. But, just because the OTHER isn’t mainly DVD related that doesn’t mean that it’s less important. I’m sure that’s not what you were trying to say.

And I bet Geoff would be hard pressed to say that the whole site had suffered technical problems primarily from the OTHER, that’s just a silly comment. Granted we’re large, and take up a lot of resources. But the OTHER forum is a place for all other topics, of course it's going to be big. I look at it almost as if a City grows too fast. If there is too much growth, the whole city suffers. To fix this, the City must move to the next level, to build, and help relieve the stress, not cut back on the group that is growing. True we don’t talk about DVDs all day in OTHER, but does that make us any “less” than a person posting in “At the movies”, or “Exhanges”? What about the new “Books” people, should we OTHERS tell them they can’t have long threads because BOOKS are not DVDs? I just don’t see the point. We’re all here, and part of a large community. It doesn’t matter what part of this site you like, it’s about all of us.

As far as the arguing, I agree, people don’t like the new rules. Consider the situation. Kenwood was or main MOD. He was great at what he did, he posted jokes, and poked fun at all of us, but at the same time held order. We all knew we could mess with him, and most of the time he’d come right back at us. He was perfect for the job. The other OTHER MODS are really good too. They also joke around, and such. Then the changes come. As far as word assoc, hey, I’m not going to die because it’s gone. But at the same time, I can’t see how that could put strain on the forum and cause problems. That’s just a weak assumption that is just waiting to get shot down. If a word assoc. thread was 5 pages long, it put no more stress than any other 5 threads that were 1 page long each. It’s the same amount of coding, and in some ways, it seems as if the <B>ONE</B> word assoc. thread would put less stress tech problems, since there is less coding needed on one large thread than 5 smaller ones (ea. 1 page long).

Loosing word assoc. / nudes / or any thread that’s just “too much” isn’t killing the creativity, it’s hurting the overall feeling of OTHER. OTHER was a place for all things (outside of the illegal and morbid), and now there’s a list of “No-no’s” that’s starting. This won’t kill the OTHER, it just gives it a different feel. The late night crew still gets a little more slack in “silly” or Roll Call threads I’m sure, but as for the rest of us, it just seems as if you post a thread that doesn’t seem “worthy”, it may just get the lockdown.

I do remember the forums when I started, and I know a few people that left when it started to change. I just saw one post from a friend who hasn't posted in almost a year. When Jack, or anyone else you want to point out came along this place did change, it changed because the posters (in general) changed. Posting styles changed. I hope it does become a riot again, nothing less and I wouldn’t be satisfied.

As for the “anything goes”, that’s not what’s keeping me here. I still know many people here that I consider “friends” even though I’ve met none of them. (Heck, for all I know they may not even like me). That is what’ll keep me here, but at the same time I don’t think changing the rules will solve the problem (if there was one to start off with). I think that you need to make people responsible for their actions. Warn them, ban them, but don’t “change the game because a few players are cheating” so to say. I’ll get something out of this place no matter what, but with these changes in place, if it doesn’t lighten up, I honestly can say I’ll be getting less. (And that’s what saddens me).

Thanks for your reply, I’m going dancing!

-Keyser
###

[Edited by Keyser Soze on 04-27-01 at 11:33 PM]

I guess we are not really communicating- I think that it is not that posts are being deleted, but that people are more worried than before that a fun joke might be interpreted as an attack. I used a single example to state I do not think the thread would in many peoples eyes have merit. But it was fun for me and the people who participated. I do not recall using the term sterile. But that it is less fun.

I know this is subjective and hard to put a finger on. if you want examples I guess we can just choose to disagree and move on. I do not feel that people think they can be sacastic anymore. Is this the truth who knows. I know I will be far more careful in my posting in the near term.

Is this forum very different. In tone yes. I believe the freedom that I first found is not present to as great a degree. I also never found the forum crude or crass or rude. So asking me if his cracking down on something I do not think was present is not a question i can answer. I do not find nudity crude. I also have no problem with more extreme nudity being eliminated.

If I am worried that i will see something i do not want to see i will not click on it. If i do I guess it is my fault.

I do not believe it was a Kindergarten now or then. This is a term I never used so I am unsure how you wish me to respond to it. I do not think the forum is less mature or more. just more sanitized and less fun.


The bottomline is that I hope things mellow out here in the next few weeks. I also hope that Geoff finds more inventive ways to raise money to keep Dvdtalk growing.

I also hope I find more reasons to be here not less :D .

Good Luck everyone :)

Sorry if my responses were not what you are looking for-Boatdrinks.

I think everyone has stated their case in a mostly mature intelligent manner

good stuff guys :)

gotdvd?

You said it toward the end of your post......dvdtalk is not a matter of life and death...there is life outside of the forum which is MORE important then this place will ever be so stop getting on each other(even here in this thread)and post happy thoughts!!! Or GET A LIFE!!!!

One of the reasons I do not post as much any longer is due to the fact that I am tired of some of the RUDE people here on this forum who if sitting face to face with one another would never have the guts to say what they say half the time......

I should clarify the rude statement I typed to include the forums outside of the "other" forum such as talk, movies and bargains......most of us who hang out in the other forum are very cordial to each other most of the time...more of a family atmosphere!!! :)


Oh well...I will still be around if anyone cares...just not as much as before because I do have better things to do with my time such as spending it with my family. :)

And the ending of the b-day club was not so much due to the present status of the forum but as I had posted last month....if more people did not start supporting the actual threads for member's b-days then I would end the threads. One of the big problems were for me to have to constantly be on the forum throughout a day to insure these threads were on page 1...which they always were slipping to page 2, 3 and sometimes 4 which always felt was totally ridiculous so hopefully in the future we can all acknowledge each other if one wishes their b-day to be known.... :)

If I may add something, even though I have only just registered as a member, I have been "visiting" this
site for about 2 years now and for whatever it is
worth, I think a lot of "members" need to step back,
get a long breath of fresh air and try to be a bit
more considerate of other people's point of views.
Unfortunately way too much flaming and people snapping
at each other goes on in here, this is one reason why
I am and have been very reluctant to post. Anyone else
share my views? And, can't we all get along?

I think that right NOW things are a little difficult. I mean, Like with everything, when something happens, it tends to happen to an extreme but then it floats back to a more average level. Right now I don't care for DVDTalk forum because it seems to "snooty". You cannot ask a question like "Which Exorcist should I get?" without getting responces like....Why don't you do a search...or well unless your stupid get this one...

I think that the talk and bargain forums need the most regulation, that is where flames tend to occur.

Most everyone in the otter farm respects each other and flames are rare...even with very hot topics like abortion or religion...we may argue but we very rarely take things personally.

It is time for deregulation of the other and further regulation in Talk and Bargains (and re-join some of these forums...this is getting just plain silly).

Well said Doc ... :)

Well, this thread is certainly a FUN read. :D

BoatDrinks, calling Keyser "Verbal" (in response to you being addressed as "Guyot") made me LOL.

Desmondp, it was my disabled cousin who was raped, and the response of the Others meant a lot, so I can certainly attest to the community here. :)

I think it's as simple as this: I'm one who has supported dividing Other into Social Issues (more serious) and Light Talk (less serious). That may be a solution to some Other problems, but if Light Talk would still drain Geoff's resources it's not a solution to his problems. So, maybe this is the way it has to be. I don't miss the mature photos (I know plenty of sites ;) ), I don't miss the mindless pads for the sake of pads, and I don't miss the rudeness. The humor has decreased and their are less trivial yet witty threads, and I miss those. So, I'll agree the place is less FUN...but so far I'm actually pretty happy with the trade-off.

[Edited by milkdog on 04-28-01 at 11:07 AM]

Wow. I left on Friday afternoon when there were only 5 or 6 posts in this thread. I come back today (Sunday) and this thread has exploded.

BoatDrinks - I haven't responded because I haven't been on line since Friday afternoon, but there's nothing I can say now that hasn't been said already by others (probably much more eloquently than I could have said it). I particularly like and agree with Keyser Soze's posts.

I wasn't here "in the beginning", and I can only surmise that Geoff started the Other Forum to give members a place to let loose a little and talk about topics completely unrelated to the "serious" matters discussed in the issue-specific forums. He probably never expected it to become as popular as it has become.

I jumped into this discussion because I perceived (perhaps erroneously) a certain intolerance to Soup's opinion that the new (or newly enforced) rules were putting a damper on the discussions in these forums. I happen to agree with Soup on this, although I'm a little more optimistic than he is that things will bounce back. I respect your right to take an opposing viewpoint, but I do not like to see anyone's view dismissed out of hand for irrelevant reasons, such as the age, post-count or length of membership of the speaker. I do not believe that I took your "young minds" comment out of context - your post clearly conveyed the impression that those who had not been around in the early "glory days" of DVD-Talk should just shut their mouths and keep their opinions to themselves.

I'll be the first to agree that Geoff can set forth whatever rules and standards he deems appropriate. I will abide by those rules.

I'm one of the people who comes here primarily to have some fun. I join in on the fun discussions more often than the serious discussions, but both are valid. Both have a place. If a split of the other forum into "serious" and "non-serious" discussions would solve the problem, then maybe that's the way to go. That way anyone who doesn't want to see the frivolous threads can just stay out of that forum. It seems to me, however, that anyone who wants to avoid these thread can already do so.

The forum is what it is. Geoff created it, Geoff runs it, Geoff and the moderators can control (I prefer "guide") it, but the people who post here create the feeling of community that I enjoy so much. I'm just thankful that we are able to disagree so strongly on these issues and still maintain a civil and polite conversation. This thread is a perfect example of why this site is so good.

I could go on, but I won't.

I'm not going to respond because I've made my position abundantly clear elsewhere.

Wait, that's never stopped me before... hmm... what the hell, why change my style now... :D

With that, I present to you:
<h1><center>A Brief History of the Otter Farm</center></h1>
When I joined the Other Forum, I remember that it had a nice mix of stuff. You'd find a silly haiku thread next to a "no Native Americans as sports mascots" thread next to an "Other Forum Barbecue" thread next to an "I need personal advice" thread next to a "why not illegalize smoking?" thread. And the threads were good fun - when you had something to say, you wrote; when you didn't, you didn't.

The Forum was a different place because of this. Threads were entertaining so that starting at the beginning and reading all the way through wasn't a chore, but rather an engaging read. There wasn't so much... pardon the expression... <b><i>DEAD WEIGHT</i></b> bogging down the threads between the interesting posts. And as a result, discussions stayed on the front page for days, until they were <i>truly</i> dead and everyone had had their say.

This was fun. This was exciting. This was the Other Forum that drew me in and made me its b*tch.

Somewhere along the line, that changed. Thread volume increased dramatically. Good discussions were washed away in a flood of "what color is your poo" and "here's my 86th 'let's worship this chick's boobies' thread" garbage. And those conversations that <i>were</i> generating interesting talk became bogged down in that dead weight.

Quite simply, the Other Forum lost its sense of balance.

Why is this? I think post counts had a lot to do with it. The first time I saw a "Congrats <b>(x)</b> on reaching <b>(y)</b> posts!" thread I thought, wtf is this?! What's the big deal? But the congratulatory praise continued, and with it, people put more and more stock in quantity than quality.

This changed posting from an interesting habit to a race. The quality of posting dropped noticeably; lots of "mee too" and "boy that's funny! rotfl" replies started appearing. Lots of "This is a PAD thread" threads popped up. "Padding" itself became a regular term and a commonly accepted practice, without regard to the fact that it was polluting the Other Forum with banal tripe and driftwood.

Then Geoff put the smack down. And you know what? I think it was a good thing.

As someone (<b>TCHJ?</b>) one observed so wisely - "You know, guys, you <i>don't have to respond</i> to every single thread." I think that's what happened to the Other Forum. The old principle that if you don't have anything interesting to say, don't say anything - that went out the window. I think that's starting to return, and it's having a positive effect.

So posting volume is down. Big deal. The threads you're not seeing are those you wouldn't have read anyway, other than to post a "<b>[pad]</b>" response. Their absence should not be grieved.

- David Stein

Physician, heal thyself:
http://www.dvdtalk.com/forum/showthr...hreadid=104543

Guyot,
I am in general agreement with your position. I do believe that the Otter Farm had gone to the dogs over the past year or so.

However, I personally believe that I have no right to complain that the forum is full of inane posts *if* I don't post quality posts myself. The above post could be your clever way of demonstrating what's wrong with the forum. In which case, I am sorry I missed your point.

I am slowly drifting away from the Otter Farm myself and don't spend as much time here as I used to.

Ah, but the question is whether people haven't been making quality posts because they drown in garbage and get lost. I know I've felt that way in the past, and others (including you, if I'm not mistaken!) have agreed.

Who are you kidding? You're never here any more! -ptth-

- David Stein

[Edited by sfsdfd on 04-29-01 at 03:56 PM]

I totally agree with that. I am on this forum for quite a while, and about a year ago I really enjoyed visiting the Other forum a lot. This sense of only saying sthg . when you had sthg useful/funny to say was definitely more in place and that made it so much more fun.

I have stopped visiting the Other forum for quite a while now, so probably I'm not the best to talk about it. But I totally agree with the restrictions Geoff imposed. It's a shame that it has gotten to this point, but I think it's for the best.

I also see your point, Soup. But I am, however, confused, by some of the absolutely silly replies that you gave earlier in the thread which only strengthen the value of enforcing such measures.

Anyway, I think everyone should just get back to the forums they enjoy and try to make them fun by using more than single-word posts. Come to think of it, I'm pretty sure you're already doing that. :-)

Agreed ...

After a few of my points were misconstrued, I decided to resort to slap-stick ...

I have found another home, on another "other" forum ...

I will post from time to time, but this is no longer my exclusive haven ...

I'm looking forward now to a return of the way the Other Forum was where people helped one another instead of giving out edgy answers which may be "fun" for some people to read, but serves mostly as "dead weight" in the thread.

Desmond, as always you've misconstrued what I said. I agree there is room for both. All the new rules do is get rid of the really frivolous posts, and pad threads. I don't want Other to be all serious debates. But every thread should have some merit. It should be making an attempt at conversation, it doesn't matter if it's serious or silly conversation. It should just foster conversation that requires more than one word replies or damn smiley. Secondly, I don't want to see anyone leave. All I was saying is that when new rules are implemented, certain people are going to leave. That's just the way it is. With the new rules, the only people that will be leaving are the ones that came to pad and brag about their post counts. All the other "silly" posters that were actually posting stuff to have fun will stay, and learn to have fun with in the new rules. If Geoff hadn't implemented the new rules, he would have contiued to lose the more serious posters. Either way a few people are going to leave. I think the new rules will help reduce people on either side leaving. The fact that a few "padders" are going to leave is just a consequence that has to be made to reach a compromise in other that will satisfy both sides. Lasly, I don't give a crap if anyone would care if I left. I've said it a million times, I don't come online to make friends. I have plenty of real friends in the real world. I come online to kill time when I'm bored and have nothing better to do.

[Edited by joshhinkle on 04-30-01 at 11:27 PM]

While the Other Forum has changed, so have I.

I don't spend as much time on DVDTalk as I used to. I never did get into the "games" of the 'new generation' of posters. It didn't interest me, but I concluded that some of the fun from the Other Forum was not meeting my idea of fun, so I drew back my participation.

Sometimes, you just have to move on, if you seek to grow as a person. DVDTalk was integral to the sport of finding DVDs at a cheap price 2-3 years ago. Nowadays, it settled into being a place with folks who enjoy DVDs come and visit.

True, many have gone away, and new posters show up. That's just part of the ebb and flow of forums. If I only saw the old guard posting all the time, I'd get pretty tired of them (or would know approximatedly what their stand on issues would be, and that gets old) and would need some new blood to shake up the place.

What's the saying? "Familiarity breeds contempt." Some of that applies to DVDTalk. What happened to Kenwood is a good example of this.

Like Bfrank has in his signature "Have you been outside today?" DVDTalk is a distraction, a place to unwind, relax. I think many would benefit from getting up out of the chair and take a nice walk outside and breathe in some clean air (YMMV). Many here have turn forum participation into some weird competition (posts counts) and forget why they are really here. If you aren't getting anything out of being at DVDTalk, please, by all mean, look elsewhere, there are a ton of other forums out there. If you find a better fit, move on.

If more people would live the the motto: "Leave any place you visit a better place", we'd all be happier.

One last thing: Get off Geoff and the moderator's backs. They are doing the best they can to make most of the posters happy here. If you don't agree, simply leave because I trust their judgment over the regular membership because they know what the stakes are, the liabilities, and should choose whatever course of action to protect themselves from any threat to this forum.

I will make it short.

I am sad that those that made the other forum what it is are feeling that it is not for them anymore. People like Gotdvd, Blade, Patman, Dead, Darkelf, Elektra and so on. SDSFDF/david and Guyot/Boat make good points that are close to how I feel. These people are due the respect for being the originals. That was when the other forum was at its best. Imagine that they must feel just like you do right now, Soup!

I would make some suggestions. There is room for all that still want to come. If you dont like it then its time to look around. As Blade always said "ebb and flow"! Lets do stuff to make it what we want. I for one an happy with the changes of late. I am on the other hand bummed by those that I care most about on the board leaving. Soup that would include you :)

How about posting stuff you would change to make it better!

A can think anyone wants post counts back or more padding so let leave that but if you want porn or something else lets figure a way to make it work for all. Maybe its time for the the one and only ....... threads.