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-   -   Calling Moderators to Task For EVERYTHING (https://forum.dvdtalk.com/forum-feedback-support/101832-calling-moderators-task-everything.html)

GeoffK 04-18-01 05:34 PM

(Note: Old thread, but still an appreciated sentiment -Blade)

Guys,

I am VERY interested in your feedback, but I have to ask you not to call our moderators to task for every call that they make.

Many times there's a world of information that is not appearant on the forum about particular members (such as IP addresses, e-mail correspondence, etc).

In the next few weeks I anticipate a sharp increase in the number of people who are suspended from DVD Talk for abusive posts, and with the immense amount of work that our mods do, I simply can't ask them to justify publicly each and every action.

Now I am not saying that we don't want to hear when something is wrong, but I need you all to give us some leeway here so we can do what I think everyone wants - make DVD Talk a better place to be.

Thanks

Soup Nazi 04-18-01 06:42 PM


Originally posted by gkleinman
Many times there's a world of information that is not appearant on the forum about particular members (such as IP addresses, e-mail correspondence, etc).
(Even though I'm not a Moderator) ...

You and I both know that the information isn't always accurate ...

Adam Tyner 04-18-01 07:24 PM

This is shamelessly lifted from another forum, but maybe in the Forum Feedback description on the topic index, you could put a message like "This area is not to be used to discuss forum rules and guidelines nor to complain about forum disciplinary actions. Anyone found venting these topics will be removed."

Master J 04-18-01 07:51 PM

Geoff, great long needed stance. The overall attitude has just stunk around here lately. Alot of members show little or no respect to their fellow members, not to mention the moderators. DVD talk is a community and any cancer in that community needs to ge gone.

J

codefree 04-18-01 07:57 PM


Originally posted by Master J
Geoff, great long needed stance. The overall attitude has just stunk around here lately. Alot of members show little or no respect to their fellow members, not to mention the moderators. DVD talk is a community and any cancer in that community needs to ge gone.

J

I completely agree. I'm very happy to read that you will be increasing the number of suspensions. There are a lot of them way overdue. Hopefully the suspensions will get the offenders on the right track but if not, I hope you will not hesitate to ban the repeat offenders.

Thanks for addressing this issue. :)

Bust 04-18-01 09:12 PM


Originally posted by Master J
any cancer in that community needs to ge gone.


there is no cure for cancer...

Josh H 04-18-01 09:14 PM


Originally posted by Bust

there is no cure for cancer...

In some cases if you catch it early enough you can remove the "tumor." Cracking down on members who make personal attacks, are inconsiderate of the mods, etc. can at least "remove some tumors." ;)

joltaddict 04-18-01 10:02 PM

On a positive note...
 

Chitowndvd is doing a bang up job in his new forum. Most videogame forums are overrun with infantile arguements.


RandyC 04-18-01 10:20 PM


Originally posted by Bust

Originally posted by Master J
any cancer in that community needs to ge gone.


there is no cure for cancer...

I will have to tell my wife who no longer has cancer this new information.

You do the things that should be done. Are you suggesting that the analogy was flawed or the efforts are fruitless?


sfsdfd 04-19-01 01:14 AM

I've already written this several times in these forums, as well as in several personal emails, but once again...

I have been absolutely <i>appalled</i> by the frequent public bashing of moderators. We've seen a shocking increase in this over the past six months or so.

In the old days (not to sound like a geezer, but it's relevant), whenever Blade or anyone took action, it wasn't even worth discussing. A thread got locked; a member got suspended; big deal - at the very most, you might get one or two people applauding their actions, and that was it.

This has changed <i>radically</i> over the past six months. It seems like every step they make is questioned, debated, and criticized. And it's not done in private email or even in the Feedback Forum; it's done in the chat room, it's done in the main DVD Talk forum, and it's <i>especially</i> done in the Other Forum.

Why the change? I think I see two reasons:
<HR>
1) The changing of the guard for moderators. <b>Blade</b> was one of the first members of DVD Talk and was a mod nearly since the beginning. Virtually everyone was introduced to him as a moderator, and people knew him <i>first</i> as a mod and <i>second</i> as a member. I can't remember a single incident where his actions were questioned. That's also true, to a lesser extent, of <b>DVDer</b> and <b>Mao</b>.

But we've seen a number of "regular guys" raised to mod status, and I think people have shown them a lesser measure of respect. Because we all knew them well before their mod days, it's like many see them not as moderators who post occasionally, but as regular members who moderate occasionally. Sadly, a lot of that doubting underlay last weekend's incident.

2) A rapid influx of new members. Newer users don't understand the forum dynamics: what lines can be crossed and what can't, what actions will lead to moderator editing and what won't. E.g.: When they see a lot of pr0n photos and link to a hardcore site, and their link gets deleted by a moderator, they go ballistic.

It's good that DVD Talk is a growing community (especially with the random wandering-away and occasional banning of long-standing members - we need replacements!), but of course, it has this down side.

Perhaps the proper remedy is to revise the user agreement page. Instead of bombarding them with 100 different rules, why not start them out with a "quick guidelines" page that presents only the <i>most relevant</i> and <i>most frequently applied</i> rules that they really need to know? I don't know if that'd make one whit of difference, but it might be worth a shot.
<HR>

Regardless of the "why"s, I think people just need to stop haranguing the mods, and <b>gkleinman</b>, this thread is a timely warning.

Moderators give <i>tons</i> of their free time to beat back the weeks around the edges of the forums, so to speak. Harassing them will only make them leave, as it did with <b>Kenwood</b>. The original incident was regrettable, but the aftermath - the backlash against Kenwood - was <b>COMPLETELY</b> unnecessary and wrong. People knew the proper course of action (emailing Kenwood or Geoff); people just refused to take it, opting instead for a public tar-and-feathering. The only word for it is <b>petty</b>... or maybe <b>juvenile</b>. :grunt:

I hope the next time a mod takes a questionable action, people will follow the proper procedures - or even (gasp!)give him the benefit of the doubt and let it slide.

- David Stein

Alyoshka 04-19-01 02:00 AM

Sfsdfd-

Do you think it would be worth my time to try to make a Newbies FAQ for the Other Forum?

It seemed like before people would lurk a couple months before joining in. I think that helped them to understand the "politics" that sort of govern the other forum.

Now people are jumping in with "no fear" and that is partially stirring things up. I think a FAQ might be a good thing, but then again I'm not sure. What do you think? I'd be willing to take the time to make one if others think it would be worth my while.

I think it would also help with a lot of this questioning of all the things mods do.

Josh H 04-19-01 02:25 AM


Originally posted by sfsdfd

But we've seen a number of "regular guys" raised to mod status, and I think people have shown them a lesser measure of respect. Because we all knew them well before their mod days, it's like many see them not as moderators who post occasionally, but as regular members who moderate occasionally. Sadly, a lot of that doubting underlay last weekend's incident.

That's a reason I support the idea of anonymous mods. Then people wouldn't know who the mods were. They wouldn't know them as regular members, and thus couldn't view them as regular members who moderate occasionally. It would seperate and alienate mods and members, but it would reduce some of the criticism as the mods would be viewed more as authority figures, rather than regular members who sucked up and got to be mods, which is how trouble makers view them now.

[Edited by joshhinkle on 04-18-01 at 11:49 PM]

sfsdfd 04-19-01 02:56 AM


Originally posted by joshhinkle
That's a reason I support the idea of anonymous mods. Then people wouldn't know who the mods were.
Er, they wouldn't know who took a particular action, but this might just lead to lots of speculation. That carries its own problems.

I think the best avenue for change is a self-imposed moratorium on attacking mods publicly. <i>Everyone</i> knows the proper action is to email the mod or Geoff; <i>very few people</i> actually stick to that policy. People want a public scandal; there's a reason Jerry Springer is still on the air.

If the Other Forum crowd actually expected each other to follow this policy, and called others to task who violated it, we simply wouldn't have these sorts of problems.

- David Stein

sfsdfd 04-19-01 03:00 AM


Originally posted by Alyoshka
Do you think it would be worth my time to try to make a Newbies FAQ for the Other Forum?
Er, maybe. I'm thinking what might be helpful is actually a "quick start" guide for experienced web-forum people. <b>ALL</b> that would include would be the very specific rules that are regularly enforced, like:

No links to... well, I can't write the name, but I mean that "shock photo" website.
Photos of people can be posted if no nudity is shown. Nude photos can't be posted, but can be linked. Hardcore sites can't be linked or even mentioned.
No links to one's own eBay auctions.
No "In before the lock" posts; no "Nice bargain" posts; no "Wrong forum" posts.

...that sort of thing.

- David Stein

Josh H 04-19-01 03:05 AM

Good point David. Maybe an automatic suspension for uncalled for criticism of a mod. Maybe not a week suspension, but day or two. Then maybe it would get in peoples heads to respect the mods, and if they disagree to do so through e-mail. And yes I know I've been critical of mods in feedback, I was wrong and I apologized to the mod (recently to Bushdog).

RandyC 04-19-01 03:08 AM

That kind of FAQ would help that small percentage that reads that kind of thing, but a number of people sign up and ignore the agreement they just agreed to.

Anyway...the bigger problem IMO, is that some people think it's open season. Frankly..some of them enjoy it. Bait the mod into arguing about it. My bad for failing to recognize that earlier and falling for it.

Some of them are (as Startide mentioned in another thread) groups of people, with at least one of them having been banned. So it's a bit of payback to the mod(s).

And some of them are former banned members...

As a mod who has been taken to task a few times, you are put into a bad position. You may have information you choose to not make public, so you can't justify your actions to the point that someone wants you to. You can't get to emotional and join in a flame fest, because that is not helpful and only works to validate the other person. "don't wrestle with a pig. You will get dirty and the pig likes it." I find it best to just pull back. But this means the mods need support for this situation.

And I am glad to see it happen now...

centermonroe 04-19-01 12:27 PM

Coming from someone who was formerly abusive, I can say with great honesty that some of the most flagrant violations of the user agreement comes from people who have been posting on this forum for a long time. Their egos are dangerously inflated and think that they run the joint. No newbie is as bad as some of the old guard around here, though I won't name names (unless you privatley e-mail me, then I have plenty of dish).

RMan360 03-02-02 11:53 AM

.

El Scorcho 03-02-02 08:38 PM

Why the hell did you bump this? I just spent 5 minutes reading a thread almost a year old before I noticed!

Blade 03-02-02 10:20 PM


Originally posted by DTSC
Why the hell did you bump this? I just spent 5 minutes reading a thread almost a year old before I noticed!
Where's that violin smilie when you need it.

;)

Edited first post to point out the age of the request.

RMan360 03-03-02 01:51 PM


Originally posted by DTSC
Why the hell did you bump this? I just spent 5 minutes reading a thread almost a year old before I noticed!
:lol: At least now I know it was worth the bump.

I thought it might be a good idea to bump this since the Mods are starting to really crack down on things and that it might help keep some from becoming [Banned].

If I was out-of-line, I apologize.

-Matt

El Scorcho 03-04-02 12:51 AM

You owe me 5 minutes of your time someday, bucko! ;)


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