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-   -   The 8th Annual Criterion Collection Challenge Discussion Thread (https://forum.dvdtalk.com/dvd-talk/635644-8th-annual-criterion-collection-challenge-discussion-thread.html)

shadokitty 09-05-16 10:58 AM

Re: The 8th Annual Criterion Collection Challenge Discussion Thread
 
I just finished A Brief History Of Time, that I bought on Google Play last night. I like documentaries anyways, so maybe my opinion is biased, but I thought it was quite an enjoyable documentary on the life of Stephen Hawking. It was informative to me as well, as I had always thought that he was born the way he was. I found out that he contracted ALS in his younger days, and that he gradually got worse as the years went by. In addition in 1991, he was involved in an accident when he was hit by a car while his nurse was pushing his wheelchair across the road. All in all, if anyone either likes documentaries, or are interested in Stephen Hawking himself, I highly recommend this film.

Travis McClain 09-05-16 04:14 PM

Re: The 8th Annual Criterion Collection Challenge Discussion Thread
 
CinemaNow has a selection of titles on sale right now for 99¢ apiece. SD only, unfortunately, but among them is the 1942 Korda brothers production of The Jungle Book, which is eligible for this challenge.

The Man with the Golden Doujinshi 09-05-16 04:18 PM

Re: The 8th Annual Criterion Collection Challenge Discussion Thread
 
I think I'm about done with the challenge. Maybe do one for the cross over. Watched my two new releases and the prerelease version of Red River that I bought last year (I only watched the theatrical).

Travis McClain 09-05-16 04:25 PM

Re: The 8th Annual Criterion Collection Challenge Discussion Thread
 
Late last night, I finally got back to streaming Brute Force, starting over from the beginning. From my Letterboxd diary:

SPOILER ALERT FOR ANYONE READING EMAIL

Spoiler:
This was second on <a href=https://www.criterion.com/explore/27-steve-buscemi-s-top-10>Steve Buscemi's Top 10</a> list of films in the Criterion Collection.

Melodrama tends to miss more than hit with me, and that was overall true here. I lost interest in the backstory flashbacks after the second. I was relieved that we didn't have to sit through one for Kid Coy, a one note joke that stopped being funny early. Jack Overman does what he can to inject some levity into the picture as the big lug, but it just felt like the wrong brand of levity.

Art Smith and John Hoyt, however, did infuse the film with the right brand of levity as Dr. Walters and Spencer, respectively. The humor befitting these people and this world has to be worn out, not to actually elicit laughter but merely to reassure the speaker that his ability to construct a joke still functions long after it's made anyone laugh. This is a defense mechanism I know well, having used it reflexively throughout all manner of crises, including both of my inpatient hospitalizations for suicidal depression.

Smith's Dr. Walters is the film's conscience, the only real protagonist we have since the two leads are the sadistic Captain Munsey (Hume Cronyn, as chilling as any screen villain I've yet to see) and inmate leader Joe Collins (Burt Lancaster, intense but not particularly inspiring). It's easy to root against the totalitarian Munsey, but it's hard to root <I>for</I> Joe. The best we have to work with is that somehow or other, Joe has to get out to persuade poor innocent Ruth to undergo some kind of lifesaving surgery because no one else can talk her into it.

If I was invested in Ruth, maybe that would have been enough. As it is, she's little more than a shorthand for giving Joe (and by extension, the entire film) the impetus for the jailbreak. I was reminded of the sequences in <I>Bride of Frankenstein</I> with the hermit...except that I managed to care about the hermit enough that watching his world torn apart bothers me. Watching Ruth say goodbye to Joe, oblivious to what will come of him or their relationship, meant nothing to me.

I was significantly more invested in Tom Lister (Whit Bissell). I suspect many, if not most, viewers dismiss Lister as being pathetic and weak, too worried about a wife who doesn't return his devotion to take care of himself and therefore not particularly worth their consideration. He was, of course, the one I related to the most. I can appreciate the kind of desperation that drove him to steal money for a fur coat for his wife in the first place, to send her letter after letter from inside, and ultimately to take his own life in light of being told she wanted a divorce.

There's something I'd love to see: Cora Lister demanding an inquiry into the death of her husband, particularly if her filing for divorce was a fabrication of Munsey's. Maybe she was going to leave Tom. She admits to choosing materialism over decency. On the other hand, there's Munsey filtering their entire relationship.

I will say that as the film wore on, I became increasingly mindful that the rules of that era dictated that wrongdoers <I>must</I> be punished onscreen, and that meant that somehow or other, Joe and Munsey both would have to go down. The climactic battle isn't so much primitive as it is primal. It's terribly simplistic, but this works in the film's favor, as it isn't fixated on trying to impress us with how clever it all is. Instead, we simply get on with the relentless cruelty.

I live in the same county as one of our state's penitentiaries. It's a major employer in this area, and I've grown up knowing quite a few people who have worked in corrections in various positions over the years, including members of my own family. The thesis of <I>Brute Force</I> is every bit as valid today as it was in 1947. As Dr. Walters put it:

<blockquote>Do you know what this prison is, Mr. McCollum? One big human bomb! And you say, "Kick it, and it'll be quiet. Smash it, and it won't explode."</blockquote>

One of the people I know who has worked in corrections has been caught up in a major prison riot. It wasn't at the facility where he worked, though. He was one of quite a few state corrections workers who were called in to assist when a privatized prison erupted. He was adamant that what led to that riot was precisely the draconian ruthlessness personified here by Captain Munsey and Mr. McCollum. The morality of <I>Brute Force</I> may be simplistic and it may be delivered clumsily in places, but it's sadly every bit as relevant today as at the time of its release 69 years ago.

<I>Star Trek</I> aside: This ensemble features three actors who appeared in the original series; Whit Bissell ("The Trouble with Tribbles"), Jeff Corey ("The Cloudminders"), and John Hoyt (Dr. Boyce in the original pilot, "The Cage").

<B><I>Brute Force</I> entered my Flickchart at #1016/1846</B>


Brute Force
-X- Decade - 1940 (1947)
-X- Spine Range - 301-400 (#383)
-X- Theme - Noir and Neonoir
-X- Theme - Suspense!
-X- Language - English
-X- Essay - Brute Force: Screws and Proles, Michael Atkinson

Box Sets/Top 10
Steve Buscemi's Top 10
Joe Mantegna's Top 10

malazar 09-05-16 05:12 PM

Re: The 8th Annual Criterion Collection Challenge Discussion Thread
 
I just finished watching the last film in Eclipse Series 25: Basil Dearden's London Underground. The four films ranged from very good to great, so this set was a very pleasant surprise and ranks in the top tier of Eclipse sets that I have watched. My Hulu Plus subscription ran out last week, but I think the Dearden films are on there if anyone is looking for something to watch.

Trevor 09-05-16 06:13 PM

Re: The 8th Annual Criterion Collection Challenge Discussion Thread
 
I think I'm going to have at least one missed item on my personal checklist this month. With a bit of thinking, I have HBO, Disney, and 3D covered; but I can't think of a way to cover Star Trek this month.

Whiskey Warfield 09-05-16 06:13 PM

Re: The 8th Annual Criterion Collection Challenge Discussion Thread
 
Watching Head.
This movie is stupid.
Not funny stupid, "Jesus this is stupid" stupid.

malazar 09-05-16 06:36 PM

Re: The 8th Annual Criterion Collection Challenge Discussion Thread
 
Yeah, I remember being horribly disappointed both times I watched Head. It is just awful.

ntnon 09-05-16 07:01 PM

Re: The 8th Annual Criterion Collection Challenge Discussion Thread
 

Originally Posted by Trevor (Post 12889988)
I think I'm going to have at least one missed item on my personal checklist this month. With a bit of thinking, I have HBO, Disney, and 3D covered; but I can't think of a way to cover Star Trek this month.

How are you getting by Disney - something like The Rock..?

Trevor 09-05-16 07:30 PM

Re: The 8th Annual Criterion Collection Challenge Discussion Thread
 

Originally Posted by ntnon (Post 12890021)
How are you getting by Disney - something like The Rock..?

Exactly. If I find the DVD that is.....

pacaway 09-05-16 08:09 PM

Re: The 8th Annual Criterion Collection Challenge Discussion Thread
 

Originally Posted by Trevor (Post 12889988)
I think I'm going to have at least one missed item on my personal checklist this month. With a bit of thinking, I have HBO, Disney, and 3D covered; but I can't think of a way to cover Star Trek this month.

You could get your TV to do a 3D conversion of Godzilla or something. ;)

orlmac 09-05-16 09:15 PM

Re: The 8th Annual Criterion Collection Challenge Discussion Thread
 
I finally finished the supplements for Fantastic Planet tonight after watching the movie on August 31st for the Animation/Criterion Collection crossover. I first saw this movie when it came out on HBO in the late 1970's I believe and it makes a lot more sense to me today. I highly encourage those that haven't seen it to give it a try. It's not your average animation I know but it is extremely creative and has a fascinating story. The supplements only include two of Rene Laloux's early works and left me wishing for all of them (I believe there were five in all, I think I will have to give YouTube a look for the others). The interview with Laloux was well done and there is a copy of an episode of Italiques which has a 52 minute interview with Roland Topor that is very interesting. The essay by Michael Brooke didn't really cover any new territory, but all in all I would strongly recommend this disc to everyone.

davidh777 09-05-16 09:21 PM

Re: The 8th Annual Criterion Collection Challenge Discussion Thread
 

Originally Posted by Trevor (Post 12889988)
I think I'm going to have at least one missed item on my personal checklist this month. With a bit of thinking, I have HBO, Disney, and 3D covered; but I can't think of a way to cover Star Trek this month.

Hidden Fortress inspired Star Wars, which revived interest in Star Trek and led to the first movie...? :D

Trevor 09-05-16 10:21 PM

Re: The 8th Annual Criterion Collection Challenge Discussion Thread
 
Randomly chose Frances Ha tonight, Netflix, and enjoyed it. If I had the disc I'd be diving into the special features right now. Quirky and often depressing, but it kept me engaged all film, which rarely happens lately.


Originally Posted by pacaway (Post 12890065)
You could get your TV to do a 3D conversion of Godzilla or something. ;)

That'd be sweet!

Originally Posted by davidh777 (Post 12890128)
Hidden Fortress inspired Star Wars, which revived interest in Star Trek and led to the first movie...? :D

I like the way you think, and that might have to do.

But I wonder if any of the Trek captains have been in a Criterion film? That'd be good enough for me.

Dr. Mantle 09-05-16 11:25 PM

Re: The 8th Annual Criterion Collection Challenge Discussion Thread
 

Originally Posted by Screwadu (Post 12889989)
Watching Head.
This movie is stupid.
Not funny stupid, "Jesus this is stupid" stupid.

The BBS set is mostly disappointment. Head, Drive, He Said, and A Safe Place are completely forgettable. Marvin Gardens has a great opening scene, but otherwise is just like the above three. I know it has it's fans, but I fucking hate every second of Last Picture Show (and I loved Paper Moon :shrug: ).

Criterion should just release a two pack of Easy Rider and Five Easy Pieces.

Fun fact about Head: They only called it that so if they made a sequel, the poster could read, "From the people who gave you Head."

Dimension X 09-06-16 01:19 AM

Re: The 8th Annual Criterion Collection Challenge Discussion Thread
 

Originally Posted by Trevor (Post 12890187)
But I wonder if any of the Trek captains have been in a Criterion film? That'd be good enough for me.

Shatner was in The Outrage (1964), which was a Western version of Rashomon (1950). It's almost like he was in a Criterion film. :D

Travis McClain 09-06-16 01:47 AM

Re: The 8th Annual Criterion Collection Challenge Discussion Thread
 

Originally Posted by Trevor (Post 12890187)
But I wonder if any of the Trek captains have been in a Criterion film? That'd be good enough for me.

Last night, I watched Brute Force. Its ensemble includes three actors from the original series: Whit Bissell ("The Trouble with Tribbles"), Jeff Corey ("The Cloudminders"), and John Hoyt (Dr. Boyce in the original pilot, "The Cage"). You might also rationalize viewing The Spy Who Came In from the Cold as it was an obvious influence on the DS9 episode "Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges". And don't forget that A Brief History of Time is a documentary about Data's poker opponent Stephen Hawking.

Hell, I've been meaning to put together a list on Criterion.com of Trek-related films anyway. I'll let you know what I turn up.

Travis McClain 09-06-16 01:54 AM

Re: The 8th Annual Criterion Collection Challenge Discussion Thread
 
My latest viewing: The Honeymoon Killers. From my Letterboxd diary -

SPOILER ALERT FOR ANYONE READING EMAIL

Spoiler:
<I>The Honeymoon Killers</I> is third on <a href=https://www.criterion.com/explore/27-steve-buscemi-s-top-10>Steve Buscemi's Top 10</I> list of Criterion Collection titles. I can appreciate its sensationalist blending of grim brutality and gallows humor, the intensity of the performances by leads Shirley Stoler and Tony Lo Bianco, and the stark black and white photography by Oliver Wood.

There's the film's economic storytelling to be appreciated, too. Writer/director Leonard Kastle was judicious in what information to give us. For instance, we witness the selection process for each mark, and then we cut to just before the end of her fate, whatever it may be. We don't have to endure the ritualistic courtship each time. We've already seen how Ray worked on Martha; we know what every other woman experienced with him without us having to sit through it.

And yet....

Somewhere along the way, the movie just began to feel too episodic for me. Though I could see for myself the escalation from merely robbing Doris to murdering not only Delphine but her daughter Rainelle, somehow I didn't <I>feel</I> any escalation. Before we even got to Delphine, I'd already begun to wonder how many more of these sequences stood between where I was in the film and its end credits.

According to Gary Giddins in his Criterion essay, <a href=https://www.criterion.com/current/posts/293-the-honeymoon-killers-broken-promises>"<I>The Honeymoon Killers</I>: Broken Promises"</a>, by time Janet Fay meets her demise, "...the film has already disposed of her humanity, mining for laughter her penny-pinching deceits and Jesus icons, defying the most saintly among us to forswear thoughts of homicide every time she chirps, 'Innat cuuuute?'”

This is the key element that eluded me. Giddins emphasizes how morosely comedic the film is, and this aspect just did not engage me. It's not that the jokes were over my head. They just didn't land for me. Perhaps if I saw this with an audience, the humor would have engaged me more, and if that had been the case, perhaps the film itself would have engaged me more.

I was intrigued by the recurring jabs at American patriotism and Catholicism. They're played for laughs, and of course they're also there to signify to us how indecent Martha and Ray are, but there's something about the specificity that did catch my eye. For instance, that Doris should sing "Battle Hymn of the Republic" in the bathtub, or the one portrait of Jesus that basically looks like it would be His Tinder profile pic. Smooth Operator Jesus is one of the lesser discussed Jesuses.

I can, however, see this turning out to be another of those films that initially underwhelmed me but germinates until I find myself fascinated by it. It certainly has enough of the elements that tend to get under my skin.

<B><I>The Honeymoon Killers</I> entered my Flickchart at #1007/1847</B>


The Honeymoon Killers
-X- Decade - 1960's (1969)
-X- Spine range - 101-200 (#200)
-X- Language - English
-X- Theme - Amour Fou
-X- Theme - Cult Movies
-X- Theme - Independent American Cinema

Box Sets/Top 10 Lists
Steve Buscemi's Top 10
Gary Giddins's Top 10
Bruce Goldstein's Top 10
Jean-Pierre Gorin's Top 10
Patton Oswalt's Top 10

popcorn 09-06-16 09:58 AM

Re: The 8th Annual Criterion Collection Challenge Discussion Thread
 
Although I've seen his earlier, successful films, I really got into (and enjoyed) François Truffaut's The Soft Skin and Day for Night. After attending a Hitchcock class this summer and watching the Hitchcock/Truffaut documentary, I realize what an impact Hitch had on Truffaut, along with other directors such as Orson Welles, Luis Buñuel, and Jean-Luc Godard. Studying the works of these auteurs really encompasses Truffaut's cinematic style. I'm looking forward to watching his other Criterion "spines" again... or for the first time.

pacaway 09-06-16 12:22 PM

Re: The 8th Annual Criterion Collection Challenge Discussion Thread
 
It was curious that, by coincidence, I watched Room with a View, a Merchant-Ivory film, and then watched Wes Anderson's The Darjeeling Limited. Once I delved into the special features on the Wes Anderson disc, I found out that, in homage to the Merchant-Ivory films, he used many music cues as well as other inspiration! One of the features was even an interview by Wes with James Ivory discussing many of the Merchant-Ivory films.
I love when things just come together like that.

Trevor 09-06-16 01:14 PM

Re: The 8th Annual Criterion Collection Challenge Discussion Thread
 
I wish we had the ability to "like" posts in this forum software. Often, I'd love to acknowledge a poster for their excellent post or funny line, but quoting everything just to say "lol" or "I support this view" would get messy and show my lack of communication skills.

This annual thread especially would get a lot of :up: from me. Carry on.

ntnon 09-06-16 05:18 PM

Re: The 8th Annual Criterion Collection Challenge Discussion Thread
 

Originally Posted by Trevor (Post 12890039)
Exactly. If I find the DVD that is.....

If you can't - TCM has Sullivan's Travels on demand for a few days... and they watch a Pluto short in that. :)

ntnon 09-06-16 05:23 PM

Re: The 8th Annual Criterion Collection Challenge Discussion Thread
 

Originally Posted by Trevor (Post 12890187)
I like the way you think, and that might have to do.

But I wonder if any of the Trek captains have been in a Criterion film? That'd be good enough for me.

I have a dim memory from.. March? Last year? of Trek episodes that are [loosely] based on/inspired by CC films. Then you could watch the film and the episode as a bonus feature-lite. :)

EDIT: I see no captain's films in the CC. Lots of remakes and semi-s in the rest of the cast's films... Takei was in Return to River Kwai and Godzilla Raids Again; Wil Wheaton was in a TVM remake of The Man Who Fell to Earth; Majel was in Will Success Spoil Rock Hunter? (which is in Eureka's MoC, but not the CC); Shatner was in The Naked City TV show... there are Trek people in CCesque films like Rocky, Ali, MASH and Judgment at Nuremberg; DeForest is in a slew of westerns, but none of CCs. Then I found out that...

RENE AUBERJONOIS in McCabe and Mrs Miller.

Good enough?

EDIT 2: Haven't dug through the episode guide since it seems unlikely, but Shatner was in episodes of the US Steel Hour, and IMDb has the CC "Golden Age of TV" picture up for the whole show. Which is a kinda-sorta Captain link to the Collection.

Trevor 09-06-16 05:31 PM

Re: The 8th Annual Criterion Collection Challenge Discussion Thread
 

Originally Posted by ntnon (Post 12892317)
If you can't - TCM has Sullivan's Travels on demand for a few days... and they watch a Pluto short in that. :)

That'd be an awesome way to check off a checklist item, thanks!

mrcellophane 09-06-16 07:18 PM

Re: The 8th Annual Criterion Collection Challenge Discussion Thread
 

Originally Posted by Trevor (Post 12889988)
I think I'm going to have at least one missed item on my personal checklist this month. With a bit of thinking, I have HBO, Disney, and 3D covered; but I can't think of a way to cover Star Trek this month.

From what I can tell, none of the actors playing captains are in any Criterion films. However, Rene Auberjonois (Odo on DS9) is in McCabe and Mrs. Miller and Walker.

If you type any actor's name into the search bar on Criterion's website, there will be an "Explore" result if they are listed in any film.

Whiskey Warfield 09-06-16 07:32 PM

Re: The 8th Annual Criterion Collection Challenge Discussion Thread
 
Here I go into more uncharted territory. I hope this isn't as awful as Head.

#28 Andy Warhol's Dracula

Whiskey Warfield 09-06-16 09:12 PM

Re: The 8th Annual Criterion Collection Challenge Discussion Thread
 
Criterion is batting 100% awful so far.

This movie has the least sexy nudity I have ever seen. I have never seen so many bored people have sex boringly. Everyone has a different accent. For all the ridiculously-overdone blood-withdrawal seizures Dracula goes through, he sure likes to let mouthfuls of blood pour out for no reason when he does get a chance to feed. He literally breaks free of the girls' necks, throws his head back and silently gargles as it all runs out down his chin. He accidentally drinks a non-virgin's blood in one scene (he does this twice, btw) and literally turns green - as in they used a green filter over his face - as he jerks all over and vomits into a bathtub.

There are no protagonists here. I guess(?) what passes for the hero likes to take his time raping two incestual sisters before telling them they're trash and bring him the virgin. Oh, and let us not forget the epic "chokes her on his dick" throat rape scene. This movie is horrible in every way - the cinematography is good, I guess, but you have a feeling that was done on purpose to make sure you can see this garbage clearly.

I know Criterion is better than this, but from now on, no more experimental-"art"-over-my-head bullshit.

BobO'Link 09-06-16 09:25 PM

Re: The 8th Annual Criterion Collection Challenge Discussion Thread
 

Originally Posted by Screwadu (Post 12892405)
Here I go into more uncharted territory. I hope this isn't as awful as Head.

#28 Andy Warhol's Dracula

IMHO it's not. If you *do* enjoy it then follow it up with Flesh for Frankenstein.

ntnon 09-06-16 11:32 PM

Re: The 8th Annual Criterion Collection Challenge Discussion Thread
 

Originally Posted by Screwadu (Post 12892484)
[With Andy Warhol's Dracula,] Criterion is batting 100% awful so far.

I forget if it was the Criterion-y Dracula or Frankenstein (or both) that was/were on Amazon Prime a couple of years ago, but I watched it/them then. Mostly because I like Pop Art and I like monsters, but it seems doubtful I'll be able to find affordable copies of either disc.

And, subsequent to watching either/both (I should look it up, but I can't find the energy), I now don't mind as much probably never owning them... I was underwhelmed.

(Though curiosity will draw me back one of these days, and reappraisal has been known to change my mind..)

Travis McClain 09-07-16 12:34 AM

Re: The 8th Annual Criterion Collection Challenge Discussion Thread
 
My most recent viewing, Man Bites Dog. From my Letterboxd diary:

SPOILER ALERT FOR ANYONE READING EMAIL

Spoiler:
<I>Man Bites Dog</I> is fourth on <a href=https://www.criterion.com/explore/27-steve-buscemi-s-top-10>Steve Buscemi's Top 10</a> Criterion list. He notes, "It’s not for everybody, but it genuinely shocked me while I laughed my ass off." I don't know how shocked I was while watching it tonight, 24 years after Buscemi first saw it, but I did laugh aloud several times and that's highly unusual for me.

There are plenty of obvious discussions to have after viewing a film like this, and I'd be interested to participate in most of them. In his essay for Criterion, <a href=https://www.criterion.com/current/posts/221-man-bites-dog-cinema-of-entrapment>"<I>Man Bites Dog</I>: Cinema of Entrapment"</a>, Matt Zoller Seitz expounds on the ethics of the documentarian: "The filmmakers become ensnared in a double-bind: If they allow events to unfold 'naturally' without getting in the way, they are complicit in murder; if they do interfere, they are breaking the rules of verité."

I'm curious about how the mockumentary milieu appeals to that part of us that wishes to live vicariously through fictitious characters and how it functions differently from straightforward narrative fiction. What's the difference between watching Benoit here versus watching Christian Bale's performance as Patrick Bateman in <I>American Psycho</I>, for instance? I feel certain there <I>is</I> a difference unique to this milieu, but I'm not entirely sure I understand what it is.

I mean, yeah, there's clearly a greater effort to impersonate reality. The movie pretends not to know it's a movie, hoping we'll play along. I confess, I was underwhelmed by <I>This Is Spinal Tap</I> when I saw it a few years ago, and I think a big part of that was that I just wasn't compelled to play along. For whatever reason, though, I was willing to play along with <I>Man Bites Dog</I>. Benoit lecturing on the proper ballast ratios for weighting corpses cracked me up within the first few minutes of the film. I think in some way, just as the film played at being a documentary, I was coaxed into playing at being a viewer of that documentary, all the while really being a viewer of the mockumentary.

I was taken out of the experience by the gang rape sequence. It's within the established parameters of the film so I can't say it's "out of place", necessarily, but regardless of context, this is the kind of thing that's simply too upsetting for me to witness. This is where Matt Zoller Seitz's questioning of the ethics of documentarian reaches its apex; they're not merely aiding or abetting Benoit. They're active co-assailants.

I will say, though, that the macabre absurdity of the birthday dinner sequence pulled me back into the film for its final act. The staging of Benoit's accidental (yet entirely obvious) shooting is flawless. The framing, the panning, and the composed stoicism on the blood spattered faces of Valérie Parent and Jenny Drye are perfect. I have no idea how many takes it took for them to get the footage we see, but their work paid off brilliantly.

<B><I>Man Bites Dog</I> entered my Flickchart at #388/1848</B>


Man Bites Dog
-X- Decade - 1990 (1992)
-X- Spine range - #101-200 (#165)
-X- Theme - Cult Movies
-X- Theme - First Films
-X- Language - French
-X- Essay - -X- Man Bites Dog: Cinema of Entrapment, Matt Zoller Seitz
-X- Trailer - Man Bites Dog Theatrical Trailer

Box Sets/Top 10 Lists
Steve Buscemi's Top 10
Flying Lotus's Top 10
Bill Plympton's Top 10

Travis McClain 09-08-16 01:04 AM

Re: The 8th Annual Criterion Collection Challenge Discussion Thread
 
Finally watched My Own Private Idaho. From my Letterboxd diary:

SPOILER ALERT FOR ANYONE READING EMAIL

Spoiler:
I've been meaning to see <I>My Own Private Idaho</I> ever since I first began participating in the annual DVD Talk Criterion challenges in 2010. It's been named on four of their celebrity-curated Top 10 lists, including <a href=https://www.criterion.com/explore/27-steve-buscemi-s-top-10>Steve Buscemi's</a>, which I'm presently working my way through to start this year's challenge.

The moment when I knew I was entirely invested in the movie was when Mike and Scott are on the stolen bike, having the following exchange:
<blockquote>SCOTT: Hey, Mikey, how long have I been here on the streets on this crusade?
MIKE: Huh. Well, I came back to town around three and a half years ago, and that's when I met you. So it's been...
SCOTT: It's been three years, Mike.
MIKE: Yeah, almost four years. That's a long time.
SCOTT: What I'm getting at, Mike, is that we're still alive.
MIKE: Yeah, well, that's obvious, isn't it?
SCOTT: Yeah. It's incredibly obvious!</blockquote>

Scott then goes on to say that, "They could drop a big old bomb on this city" and asks if Mike knows what they'd do. Mike answers, "Take shelter?" The sense of whimsy and naivete that dominate this scene is an elixir, reminding me why I watch movies in the first place. I've had those moments, and though mine aren't preserved in recordings of any kind, it's always nice to witness those moments reenacted, even if they aren't actually about me.

I had very little awareness of movies or pop culture figures like Keanu Reeves or River Phoenix at the time of the film's production and release. I'd seen Phoenix in <I>Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade</I>, but that was it. I didn't even know that it was any kind of big deal that he was the actor playing young Indy until years after I'd seen it. I can easily appreciate now all the acclaim I've ever heard for him as an actor, particularly after reading just now how the most pivotal part of the entire picture, the campfire scene, was entirely his revision of writer/director Gus Van Sant's script.

Mike's confession of romantic feelings for Scott was painful to watch. It's one of the most authentic such conversations I can recall offhand having ever seen in a movie. I don't know how long the scene runs in real time, but it's a world unto itself. It was one of those magical times where I felt myself living in that setting, its emotional truth so recognizable to one of my own.

In her essay, <a href=https://www.criterion.com/current/posts/596-my-own-private-idaho-private-places>"Private Places"</a> for Criterion, Amy Taubin relays Van Sant's account of that scene and Phoenix's work on it:

<blockquote>When I interviewed Van Sant at the time of the film’s release, he said that he’d originally thought the scene would be much more casual. “The character of Mike was originally kind of asexual. Sex was something that he traded in, so he had no real sexual identity. But because he’s bored and they’re in the desert, he makes a pass at his friend. And it just sort of goes by, but his friend also notices that he needs something, he needs to be close, so he says, ‘We can be friends,’ and he hugs him. That was all it was going to be. But River makes it more like he’s attracted to his friend, that he’s really in love with him. He made the whole character that way.”</blockquote>

Indeed, that anchors the entire film so much that the bohemian surrealism that dominates Act I almost feels necessary. One of the complaints I've had about some of the other films on Buscemi's list that I've watched is that they've felt episodic. I think had the campfire scene played out as Van Sant had intended, this film might also have felt that way for me. With Phoenix looking downward while pouring out his heart in as few words as possible, though, all the <I>Henry IV</I> rabble rousing becomes the necessary preamble to get us to a place in the film, in our understanding of his relationship with Scott, and also in our own relationship with these characters where we can really understand what this means for Mike.

The film's exploration of the nature of family is also one that resonates with me. I learned as a child that DNA =/= family. I've been fortunate over the years to develop several relationships that hold for me the value that I know to be deserving of that designation, all while having no relationship whatsoever with plenty of people with whom I share genetic markers. So, yeah, I see some of myself reflected by Mike and also by Scott in this respect.

Of course, I <I>don't</I> have any life experience comparable to being a transient sex worker. I only know enough to know my imagination isn't qualified to guess what that's like. I can only say that, from what I've grasped, there's a good deal of authenticity to the depiction shown here. I appreciated the candor of the characters, none of them playing into the tired narrative of lost souls needing to be rescued. They're searching for their own ways and answers, handling their situations as best they know how. It's as simple as that. For a film with so much sexual content, <I>My Own Private Idaho</I> isn't even about sex. Business, yes, and love, but not really about sex.

One last note: Udo Kier has stolen every scene I think I've ever seen him in, in anything. There's something about his fearlessness on-screen that makes every character he plays feel unpredictable. I never knew just how comfortable to feel about Hans, and even now that I've finished watching it, I <I>still</I> don't know how comfortable I feel about him. It's not easy to take supporting roles and make them that nuanced and that interesting, but Kier has done it time and again.

<B><I>My Own Private Idaho</I> entered my Flickchart at #174/1849</B>


My Own Private Idaho
-X- Decade - 1990's (1991)
-X- Spine range - 201-300 (#277)
-X- Language - English
-X- Theme - Out at Criterion
-X- Theme - Road Trips
-X- Theatrical Trailer (streaming on My Own Private Idaho's page on Criterion.com)

Box Sets/Top 10 Lists
Michael Atkinson's Top 10
Steve Buscemi's Top 10
Jonathan Caouette's Top 10
James Franco's Top 10

LJG765 09-08-16 09:47 PM

Re: The 8th Annual Criterion Collection Challenge Discussion Thread
 
I took a bit of time off after the last couple challenges, but I started off the challenge tonight. I watched The Wizard of Oz. One of my favorites.

I plan on spending a bit of time this weekend figuring you what I want to watch for the challenge; if I'm just going to randomly pick what catches my eye or if I'm going to try to have a theme or not. I am trying to get a couple movies through the library, but they aren't available normally, so it'll be hit or miss if I get them. Fingers are crossed though! (Jellyfish Eyes and Billy Liar).

I figure until then, I have several options available to me, most of which I've watched, but that just means I know if I'll like them or not! :)

Gobear 09-08-16 09:57 PM

Re: The 8th Annual Criterion Collection Challenge Discussion Thread
 
I have had no time to do anything this week but work and sleep, but tonight I was able to take a breather and watch Speedy. I need to pick it up in November; it's a sweetly funny film and a marvelous snapshot of New York before Robert Moses mangled it. Harold Lloyd was not only funny, but also a terrific athlete and extremely handsome; he could have easily been another Douglas Fairbanks or Richard Barthelmess.

shadokitty 09-09-16 02:11 AM

Re: The 8th Annual Criterion Collection Challenge Discussion Thread
 

Originally Posted by Gobear (Post 12894230)
I have had no time to do anything this week but work and sleep, but tonight I was able to take a breather and watch Speedy. I need to pick it up in November; it's a sweetly funny film and a marvelous snapshot of New York before Robert Moses mangled it. Harold Lloyd was not only funny, but also a terrific athlete and extremely handsome; he could have easily been another Douglas Fairbanks or Richard Barthelmess.

I watched Speedy last night, and loved it. I'd say it was easily my favorite movie so far of the Challenge. I may even pick up some Harold Lloyd movies for the Comedy Challenge in November.

mrcellophane 09-09-16 08:38 AM

Re: The 8th Annual Criterion Collection Challenge Discussion Thread
 

Originally Posted by Gobear (Post 12894230)
I have had no time to do anything this week but work and sleep, but tonight I was able to take a breather and watch Speedy. I need to pick it up in November; it's a sweetly funny film and a marvelous snapshot of New York before Robert Moses mangled it. Harold Lloyd was not only funny, but also a terrific athlete and extremely handsome; he could have easily been another Douglas Fairbanks or Richard Barthelmess.


Originally Posted by shadokitty (Post 12894353)
I watched Speedy last night, and loved it. I'd say it was easily my favorite movie so far of the Challenge. I may even pick up some Harold Lloyd movies for the Comedy Challenge in November.

I want to see that one! Last weekend, I watched The Freshman which was a blast. There's an earnestness around Lloyd that I'm drawn to. The Criterion essay that accompanies the film points out that Lloyd's characters are often outsiders who desire to be part of the mainstream and achieve that goal. He's more optimistic than the other silent comedians of the time.

Shadokitty, I have Volume One of Kino's Harold Lloyd Collection and enjoy it. It looks like you can get it fairly cheap, and it's definitely worth your time!

mrcellophane 09-09-16 08:51 AM

Re: The 8th Annual Criterion Collection Challenge Discussion Thread
 
Yesterday evening, I got home after a long day (and week), made dinner, and plopped myself in front of the television. After an episode of Steven Universe, I put in Louis Malle's Vanya on 42nd Street. Recently, I was listening to a podcast in which someone stated that there are films you watch to be entertained and others because they are good for you. I figured that Vanya would fall squarely in the latter category, but it was both gratifying and entertaining to watch.

The film follows a rehearsal of Chekhov's Uncle Vanya (really a David Mamet adaptation) in a dilapidated theater. If anyone is a fan of Wallace Shawn and/or Julianne Moore, they are absolutely brilliant in this. The Criterion essay points out that Moore was on the cusp of stardom at the time of the film, but everyone involved are primarily stage actors who don't mind delving into the complex thoughts and feelings of their characters. I'd never seen or read Uncle Vanya so it was a treat to see the action unfold, and I was captivated by the story and the interplay of relationships. The story deals with the concessions we make to live and the complications that arise when those concessions and sacrifices are not acknowledged. It's really a wonderful film, and I wholeheartedly recommend it!

Gobear 09-09-16 09:21 AM

Re: The 8th Annual Criterion Collection Challenge Discussion Thread
 

Originally Posted by mrcellophane (Post 12894460)
Yesterday evening, I got home after a long day (and week), made dinner, and plopped myself in front of the television. After an episode of Steven Universe, I put in Louis Malle's Vanya on 42nd Street.

Vanya on 42nd Street is a marvelous film adaptation of one of Chekhov's strongest and saddest plays. Even though the play is set in Czarist Russia, Andre Gregory's direction and David Mamet's screenplay drill down to the play's emotional core of regret for lives that have been wasted and love unreturned in a way that makes a play about 19th-century upper-class Russians a universal story. Setting the play in a decayed theater is a perfectly apt Chekhovian metaphor.

I wish Gregory and Shawn could have included the story of the film's production in a sequel to My Dinner With Andre. I own the DVD of Vanya, and I keep debating if I should upgrade it during each B&N Criterion sale, but I end up spending the money on new discs instead.


Originally Posted by mrcellophane (Post 12894460)
The story deals with the concessions we make to live and the complications that arise when those concessions and sacrifices are not acknowledged.

I think you just described the plots to most of Russian literature. :-)


Originally Posted by mrcellophane (Post 12894460)
It's really a wonderful film, and I wholeheartedly recommend it!

Da!

Fun bit of history: The ruined theater where Vanya was recorded had been the home of Flo Ziegfeld's musical revues, the Ziegfeld Follies. A short time after Vanya, the New Amsterdam Theatre was bought by Disney, refurbished, and turned into a Broadway showplace that is currently hosting the stage production of Disney's Aladdin.

mrcellophane 09-09-16 10:27 AM

Re: The 8th Annual Criterion Collection Challenge Discussion Thread
 

Originally Posted by Gobear (Post 12894486)
Fun bit of history: The ruined theater where Vanya was recorded had been the home of Flo Ziegfeld's musical revues, the Ziegfeld Follies. A short time after Vanya, the New Amsterdam Theatre was bought by Disney, refurbished, and turned into a Broadway showplace that is currently hosting the stage production of Disney's Aladdin.

Yes! I looked that up afterward because Wallace Shawn tells his guests about the Follies. However, his statement is so noncommittal and offhand that I wondered if he was poking a bit of fun at himself and giving misinformation. I believe I saw The Lion King at the New Amsterdam during my one visit to NYC in 2000.

I've not seen the DVD, but I can report that the BD looked wonderful on my television. The detail during closeups is very crisp, and Julianne Moore's hair practically glows.

LJG765 09-09-16 06:45 PM

Re: The 8th Annual Criterion Collection Challenge Discussion Thread
 

Originally Posted by mrcellophane (Post 12894460)
Yesterday evening, I got home after a long day (and week), made dinner, and plopped myself in front of the television. After an episode of Steven Universe, I put in Louis Malle's Vanya on 42nd Street. Recently, I was listening to a podcast in which someone stated that there are films you watch to be entertained and others because they are good for you. I figured that Vanya would fall squarely in the latter category, but it was both gratifying and entertaining to watch.

I watched this last year and it really was one of the best ones I saw that challenge. I was pleasantly surprised as I had watched My Dinner with Andre and hated it. I did try to get the 3rd, but I was unsuccessful. I should give it another go and see if I can find it this month. If anyone is on the fence, definitely give Vanya a chance!

orlmac 09-09-16 09:42 PM

Re: The 8th Annual Criterion Collection Challenge Discussion Thread
 
I think I have found the most unqualified movie ever to be put out by Criterion. I should have known better than to watch a Hulu Exclusive but I assumed if it had the Criterion brand it would be OK. I also should have known better when the movie was from 1987 and when looking up the actors on IMDB there were only two with pictures of them. The movie was I Was a Teenage Zombie. I am waiting on Solaris, Things to Come and Science is Fiction from the Library so I thought, hey, the Horror Challenge is coming lets watch something Horror. If anyone has seen this please let me know if you think it belongs here. If you haven't seen it, I would strongly suggest that it isn't worth your time. End of rant.


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