Steaming, Physical Media, and the Future of Home Video
03-14-13, 08:52 AM
#76
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Steaming, Physical Media, and the Future of Home Video
And there's even shows we have on DVD that we find ourselves watching on Netflix rather than going and getting the DVD off the shelf. Looking back, there's a lot of titles I could have probably done without buying ( a lot of adult swim stuff), and just dealt with watching it online.
03-14-13, 10:06 AM
#77
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
Re: Steaming, Physical Media, and the Future of Home Video
It is often, I find, necessary (and even more frequently interesting) - particularly with ticket prices as high as they are - to read a review to try and assess whether I will likely enjoy a film.* But so many reviewers now seem to deliberately/accidentally spoil things or give away plot points that they need not. The Internet-led democratisation of reviewers has been beneficial in many ways - reviews of and recognition for films that might otherwise be sidelined or overlooked; reviews by 'people like me'; space for lengthier reviews, etc. - but has also allowed people to become popular reviewers who don't really seem to have grasped some of the necessary skills of omission and description.
You should be able to read most articles before seeing a film without expecting to have all the surprises blown.
You should be able to read most articles before seeing a film without expecting to have all the surprises blown.
The one time I rented a DVD from the library at work, it too messed up my DVD drive and I had to buy a new drive.
03-14-13, 10:42 AM
#78
Re: Steaming, Physical Media, and the Future of Home Video
All this talk about convenience and watching what you want when you want it takes me back to the days when I cut my teeth as a film buff watching commercial TV broadcasts of old movies and having to sit in front of the TV when the films were shown and watch them at that exact time--or not see them at all! And we were grateful as hell for what we got. And we got a lot: all the Tarzan, Bowery Boys, Andy Hardy, Frankenstein and Godzilla movies you could want, plus a virtual Cinematheque's worth of John Ford, Howard Hawks, Alfred Hitchcock, Billy Wilder, John Huston, Fritz Lang, William Wyler, David Lean, Robert Aldrich, Don Siegel, Anthony Mann, Phil Karlson, George Cukor, George Stevens, Ernst Lubitsch, Otto Preminger, Robert Siodmak, etc., etc., etc., plus dubbed Italian, French, German, and Japanese films. And occasional subtitled films, like SEVEN SAMURAI and Cocteau's BEAUTY AND THE BEAST on the local educational channel.
I remember setting the alarm for 4AM so I could get up and watch "The Late Late Show" on WCBS-TV and see my very first Sam Fuller: THE STEEL HELMET. And you paid attention to these films because you never knew when they would be on again. No multitasking back then.
My point is--you appreciated what you saw more. You couldn't fast forward. One was not tempted to bail after a few minutes just because it didn't grab you right away. You gave it a chance.
I remember setting the alarm for 4AM so I could get up and watch "The Late Late Show" on WCBS-TV and see my very first Sam Fuller: THE STEEL HELMET. And you paid attention to these films because you never knew when they would be on again. No multitasking back then.
My point is--you appreciated what you saw more. You couldn't fast forward. One was not tempted to bail after a few minutes just because it didn't grab you right away. You gave it a chance.
Last edited by Ash Ketchum; 03-14-13 at 04:20 PM.
03-14-13, 04:13 PM
#79
Re: Steaming, Physical Media, and the Future of Home Video
I have amassed a large DVD collection, and really enjoyed the collecting mentality, but recently I wanted to streamline my surroundings. I didn't like the idea of buying digital copies because I wasn't used to it, but after awhile, the convenience of purchasing songs from amazon and buying movies and tv episodes and watching them on my phone was too good to pass up. And on top of that they can all be stored in a cloud account (i think that's what it's called).
Anyway, just recently I checked my amazon cloud account to listen to some songs that I had download a while back and found that they're gone because the group took their album off of Amazon's mp3 purchases. And I didn't bother to burn them or save them to my computer.
So yeah, physical media all the way.
Anyway, just recently I checked my amazon cloud account to listen to some songs that I had download a while back and found that they're gone because the group took their album off of Amazon's mp3 purchases. And I didn't bother to burn them or save them to my computer.
So yeah, physical media all the way.
03-15-13, 01:00 AM
#80
DVD Talk Reviewer & TOAT Winner
Re: Steaming, Physical Media, and the Future of Home Video
03-15-13, 01:52 AM
#81
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
Re: Steaming, Physical Media, and the Future of Home Video
All this talk about convenience and watching what you want when you want it takes me back to the days when I cut my teeth as a film buff watching commercial TV broadcasts of old movies and having to sit in front of the TV when the films were shown and watch them at that exact time--or not see them at all! And we were grateful as hell for what we got. And we got a lot: all the Tarzan, Bowery Boys, Andy Hardy, Frankenstein and Godzilla movies you could want, plus a virtual Cinematheque's worth of John Ford, Howard Hawks, Alfred Hitchcock, Billy Wilder, John Huston, Fritz Lang, William Wyler, David Lean, Robert Aldrich, Don Siegel, Anthony Mann, Phil Karlson, George Cukor, George Stevens, Ernst Lubitsch, Otto Preminger, Robert Siodmak, etc., etc., etc., plus dubbed Italian, French, German, and Japanese films. And occasional subtitled films, like SEVEN SAMURAI and Cocteau's BEAUTY AND THE BEAST on the local educational channel.
I remember setting the alarm for 4AM so I could get up and watch "The Late Late Show" on WCBS-TV and see my very first Sam Fuller: THE STEEL HELMET. And you paid attention to these films because you never knew when they would be on again. No multitasking back then.
My point is--you appreciated what you saw more. You couldn't fast forward. One was not tempted to bail after a few minutes just because it didn't grab you right away. You gave it a chance.
I remember setting the alarm for 4AM so I could get up and watch "The Late Late Show" on WCBS-TV and see my very first Sam Fuller: THE STEEL HELMET. And you paid attention to these films because you never knew when they would be on again. No multitasking back then.
My point is--you appreciated what you saw more. You couldn't fast forward. One was not tempted to bail after a few minutes just because it didn't grab you right away. You gave it a chance.
You might appreciate something more because you'll never know when/whether you might see it again. But if it's only on once at an odd and obscure time - let's take that 4AM showing - there is no guarantee you'll be in the right frame of mind to give it your full attention. You might 'force yourself' (and I know that's an over-simplification of a complex set of emotional cues) to sit through something and ultimately find you enjoy it; you might sit through it all and decide you wasted your time: but you can't make a judgement either way unless you watch the whole thing, so it isn't relevant whether you choose a time or have one forced upon you. Therefore, it becomes One Set Time (plus commercials?) vs. ANY TIME(S) OF YOUR CHOOSING. It should be obvious which of those two is more likely to allow you/me/a person the time and mindset to make it through a film that doesn't instantly grab us.
The relative death of appointment-television is said to have downgraded the 'experience'; the rising cost (and associated distractions/rudeness) of the cinema experience, ditto. But I still think the core experience is comparable: watching a film you've never seen before. That I can now do it without financial risk, at a time of my choosing is surely... if not definitely a step forward (and I think it ultimately is, with caveats) then at least not any worse than scouring TV listings and hoping I'm not too tired/busy to sit down/set a recording device at a particular time.
If you'll forgive the impertinence, your argument is a not much different from anyone saying "we didn't have much choice, and we had to lump it." Which itself is not far from sounding like simple jealousy - it could sound like the same feeling I get when I see what great toys are now available for children twenty-odd years younger than me! I wish I had had then what people have today...
Now, I imagine what you're actually saying is that an over-abundance of choice dulls the senses; makes people more blase and perhaps their experiences somehow lesser, because it's (perhaps) harder to appreciate something that you haven't had to struggle to see... Maybe; maybe not. Particularly when watching 'classic' films, there's really no way to recapture now the experience of someone who could watch the same film ten, twenty, thirty, more years ago: too much has changed, too many films have been made since, so the experience is different. Possibly worse, possibly not, but certainly different.
(Case in point: for the severalth time, as I finally see some of the great films from yesteryear, there was a scene - that now slips my mind - in either Man With the Golden Arm or Seven Days in May that I'd see before. "Before" as in, from a film made fifty years after either, but seen 'earlier' by me. To me, the reference goes the 'wrong' way, and for the briefest second, I think that the wrong film is referencing/ripping off/riffing on the other, even though it's chronologically impossible! Our experiences and viewing orders change our experiences every bit as much as the struggle we have to see something, or the method by which we view, etc., etc.)
EDIT: One final point:
*Hm. I may have to find it again for next month!
Last edited by ntnon; 03-15-13 at 02:05 AM.
03-16-13, 03:15 PM
#82
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Re: Steaming, Physical Media, and the Future of Home Video
Nice discussion! I loved the comparison of streaming to fast food (spot-on, in my opinion). It's a useful thing, it's everywhere (theoretically), it's easy, it's cheap, and people like it even if it's not particularly good for you. If I lived in a location where it actually worked for me, I'd probably make use of it. (The infrastructure for true high-speed internet for the house stops about 2000 feet away from where we need it to be. If I can download 70kbps I'm enjoying a fast day.)
But.
Even if I did have the ability to stream a cinema-quality show, I would not trade that for the option to have a physical copy. "Cloud" storage is accurately named: made of vapor, prone to changing, not exactly a solid or reliable thing. A physical copy means you will always have it despite any changes made by the contractual agreements of others, technology changes, etc. If the media becomes outdated, chances are a conversion to something more modern is available.
I see streaming as a great substitute for cable tv, because most cable packages are expensive and you get a lot of junk you don't want in order to get what you do want. With something like Netflix, the price is a good deal.
I do dislike how streaming is being shoved at people, though. I used to be a Netflix subscriber, but stopped when they made their streaming change. Now it seems you can only get DVDs *in addition to* a streaming subscription, which makes it useless for me. I'm not paying for something my location can't support. When I read that people are renting fewer DVDs, I wonder how many of them stopped because of changes like this? It's a bummer because Netflix had the best selection of things I wanted to see. If they still had the subscription I used to have, I'd still be with them.
Apparently I am one of a handful of people who actually watches the DVD extras. I very much enjoy them, but I only tend to buy tv/films that I *really* like and I try to wait to buy the most feature-packed edition available. For things I just plan on viewing once, rental was my option (which means now I don't see a lot of things, so miss the chance to fall in love with an undiscovered gem that I'd purchase).
Bonus points for the mention of the WKRP debacle! I was not much of a tv-watching kid, but I *loved* that show. So much so that we taped episodes (on betamax!) that I eventually transferred to digital files. The quality isn't great but it has the music which was possibly more integral to the show than any other tv series.
But.
Even if I did have the ability to stream a cinema-quality show, I would not trade that for the option to have a physical copy. "Cloud" storage is accurately named: made of vapor, prone to changing, not exactly a solid or reliable thing. A physical copy means you will always have it despite any changes made by the contractual agreements of others, technology changes, etc. If the media becomes outdated, chances are a conversion to something more modern is available.
I see streaming as a great substitute for cable tv, because most cable packages are expensive and you get a lot of junk you don't want in order to get what you do want. With something like Netflix, the price is a good deal.
I do dislike how streaming is being shoved at people, though. I used to be a Netflix subscriber, but stopped when they made their streaming change. Now it seems you can only get DVDs *in addition to* a streaming subscription, which makes it useless for me. I'm not paying for something my location can't support. When I read that people are renting fewer DVDs, I wonder how many of them stopped because of changes like this? It's a bummer because Netflix had the best selection of things I wanted to see. If they still had the subscription I used to have, I'd still be with them.
Apparently I am one of a handful of people who actually watches the DVD extras. I very much enjoy them, but I only tend to buy tv/films that I *really* like and I try to wait to buy the most feature-packed edition available. For things I just plan on viewing once, rental was my option (which means now I don't see a lot of things, so miss the chance to fall in love with an undiscovered gem that I'd purchase).
Bonus points for the mention of the WKRP debacle! I was not much of a tv-watching kid, but I *loved* that show. So much so that we taped episodes (on betamax!) that I eventually transferred to digital files. The quality isn't great but it has the music which was possibly more integral to the show than any other tv series.
03-17-13, 09:28 AM
#83
Re: Steaming, Physical Media, and the Future of Home Video
I do hear that point of view a fair bit, and I don't disagree. But I do have a counter-argument:
You might appreciate something more because you'll never know when/whether you might see it again. But if it's only on once at an odd and obscure time - let's take that 4AM showing - there is no guarantee you'll be in the right frame of mind to give it your full attention. You might 'force yourself' (and I know that's an over-simplification of a complex set of emotional cues) to sit through something and ultimately find you enjoy it; you might sit through it all and decide you wasted your time: but you can't make a judgement either way unless you watch the whole thing, so it isn't relevant whether you choose a time or have one forced upon you. Therefore, it becomes One Set Time (plus commercials?) vs. ANY TIME(S) OF YOUR CHOOSING. It should be obvious which of those two is more likely to allow you/me/a person the time and mindset to make it through a film that doesn't instantly grab us.
The relative death of appointment-television is said to have downgraded the 'experience'; the rising cost (and associated distractions/rudeness) of the cinema experience, ditto. But I still think the core experience is comparable: watching a film you've never seen before. That I can now do it without financial risk, at a time of my choosing is surely... if not definitely a step forward (and I think it ultimately is, with caveats) then at least not any worse than scouring TV listings and hoping I'm not too tired/busy to sit down/set a recording device at a particular time.
If you'll forgive the impertinence, your argument is a not much different from anyone saying "we didn't have much choice, and we had to lump it." Which itself is not far from sounding like simple jealousy - it could sound like the same feeling I get when I see what great toys are now available for children twenty-odd years younger than me! I wish I had had then what people have today...
Now, I imagine what you're actually saying is that an over-abundance of choice dulls the senses; makes people more blase and perhaps their experiences somehow lesser, because it's (perhaps) harder to appreciate something that you haven't had to struggle to see... Maybe; maybe not. Particularly when watching 'classic' films, there's really no way to recapture now the experience of someone who could watch the same film ten, twenty, thirty, more years ago: too much has changed, too many films have been made since, so the experience is different. Possibly worse, possibly not, but certainly different.
(Case in point: for the severalth time, as I finally see some of the great films from yesteryear, there was a scene - that now slips my mind - in either Man With the Golden Arm or Seven Days in May that I'd see before. "Before" as in, from a film made fifty years after either, but seen 'earlier' by me. To me, the reference goes the 'wrong' way, and for the briefest second, I think that the wrong film is referencing/ripping off/riffing on the other, even though it's chronologically impossible! Our experiences and viewing orders change our experiences every bit as much as the struggle we have to see something, or the method by which we view, etc., etc.)
EDIT: One final point:
I'm reasonably sure that I've only bailed on one film in the last six-odd months, and that was (I think) an Amazon-made super-low budget "comedy" "sci fi" film that was just awful.* I have, however, fallen asleep a couple of times and needed to rewind and rewatch a couple of films. Which I would have missed if I'd merely stayed up late or woken early to watch them on TV. So that's a plus point for DVDs and streaming!
*Hm. I may have to find it again for next month!
You might appreciate something more because you'll never know when/whether you might see it again. But if it's only on once at an odd and obscure time - let's take that 4AM showing - there is no guarantee you'll be in the right frame of mind to give it your full attention. You might 'force yourself' (and I know that's an over-simplification of a complex set of emotional cues) to sit through something and ultimately find you enjoy it; you might sit through it all and decide you wasted your time: but you can't make a judgement either way unless you watch the whole thing, so it isn't relevant whether you choose a time or have one forced upon you. Therefore, it becomes One Set Time (plus commercials?) vs. ANY TIME(S) OF YOUR CHOOSING. It should be obvious which of those two is more likely to allow you/me/a person the time and mindset to make it through a film that doesn't instantly grab us.
The relative death of appointment-television is said to have downgraded the 'experience'; the rising cost (and associated distractions/rudeness) of the cinema experience, ditto. But I still think the core experience is comparable: watching a film you've never seen before. That I can now do it without financial risk, at a time of my choosing is surely... if not definitely a step forward (and I think it ultimately is, with caveats) then at least not any worse than scouring TV listings and hoping I'm not too tired/busy to sit down/set a recording device at a particular time.
If you'll forgive the impertinence, your argument is a not much different from anyone saying "we didn't have much choice, and we had to lump it." Which itself is not far from sounding like simple jealousy - it could sound like the same feeling I get when I see what great toys are now available for children twenty-odd years younger than me! I wish I had had then what people have today...
Now, I imagine what you're actually saying is that an over-abundance of choice dulls the senses; makes people more blase and perhaps their experiences somehow lesser, because it's (perhaps) harder to appreciate something that you haven't had to struggle to see... Maybe; maybe not. Particularly when watching 'classic' films, there's really no way to recapture now the experience of someone who could watch the same film ten, twenty, thirty, more years ago: too much has changed, too many films have been made since, so the experience is different. Possibly worse, possibly not, but certainly different.
(Case in point: for the severalth time, as I finally see some of the great films from yesteryear, there was a scene - that now slips my mind - in either Man With the Golden Arm or Seven Days in May that I'd see before. "Before" as in, from a film made fifty years after either, but seen 'earlier' by me. To me, the reference goes the 'wrong' way, and for the briefest second, I think that the wrong film is referencing/ripping off/riffing on the other, even though it's chronologically impossible! Our experiences and viewing orders change our experiences every bit as much as the struggle we have to see something, or the method by which we view, etc., etc.)
EDIT: One final point:
I'm reasonably sure that I've only bailed on one film in the last six-odd months, and that was (I think) an Amazon-made super-low budget "comedy" "sci fi" film that was just awful.* I have, however, fallen asleep a couple of times and needed to rewind and rewatch a couple of films. Which I would have missed if I'd merely stayed up late or woken early to watch them on TV. So that's a plus point for DVDs and streaming!
*Hm. I may have to find it again for next month!
The culture was different back then, though. People discovered things together. When clips from IT'S A WONDERFUL LIFE were shown on PBS in a documentary on Frank Capra, all the film students talked about it the next day. Everyone now wanted to see the movie, which so far none of us had seen yet. That was the beginning of the great IT'S A WONDERFUL LIFE revival and I was there at the beginning.
Also, when Sergio Leone's ONCE UPON A TIME IN THE WEST premiered on ABC-TV's Sunday Night Movie in, I believe, early 1973, everybody watched it and talked about it the next day, not just film students. Granted, I watched it on a black-&-white TV set in a pan-and-scan print (closeups of Bronson's eyes were reduced to one eye), not the ideal way to see it, so today's students discovering Leone are much better off. But they're not discovering it all together.
What kind of comparable experiences are film students having today?
03-17-13, 02:48 PM
#84
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
Re: Steaming, Physical Media, and the Future of Home Video
The culture was different back then, though. People discovered things together. When clips from IT'S A WONDERFUL LIFE were shown on PBS in a documentary on Frank Capra, all the film students talked about it the next day. Everyone now wanted to see the movie, which so far none of us had seen yet. That was the beginning of the great IT'S A WONDERFUL LIFE revival and I was there at the beginning.
Also, when Sergio Leone's ONCE UPON A TIME IN THE WEST premiered on ABC-TV's Sunday Night Movie in, I believe, early 1973, everybody watched it and talked about it the next day, not just film students. Granted, I watched it on a black-&-white TV set in a pan-and-scan print (closeups of Bronson's eyes were reduced to one eye), not the ideal way to see it, so today's students discovering Leone are much better off. But they're not discovering it all together.
What kind of comparable experiences are film students having today?
03-17-13, 04:07 PM
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Re: Steaming, Physical Media, and the Future of Home Video
I'll second that. When I'm checking out reviews, it's typically because I don't know about the movie at all. I'm a little more interested in films it's comparable to because an overview of the entire story doesn't really explain what it's similar to. You could give me a synapse of the plot for a Godard film but if I hadn't already suffered through many Godard films, I might think it's worth watching.
The one time I rented a DVD from the library at work, it too messed up my DVD drive and I had to buy a new drive.
The one time I rented a DVD from the library at work, it too messed up my DVD drive and I had to buy a new drive.
03-17-13, 04:24 PM
#86
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Re: Steaming, Physical Media, and the Future of Home Video
I do dislike how streaming is being shoved at people, though. I used to be a Netflix subscriber, but stopped when they made their streaming change. Now it seems you can only get DVDs *in addition to* a streaming subscription, which makes it useless for me. I'm not paying for something my location can't support. When I read that people are renting fewer DVDs, I wonder how many of them stopped because of changes like this? It's a bummer because Netflix had the best selection of things I wanted to see. If they still had the subscription I used to have, I'd still be with them.
I do have Amazon Prime for some streaming options like TV shows.
03-17-13, 06:29 PM
#87
Re: Steaming, Physical Media, and the Future of Home Video
I've seen this on a computer. A client brought in their tower system in which they'd attempted to watch a rental disk that was cracked. It literally flew apart inside the drive after a few minutes (so they indicated) and took out some of the mechanism. It cost them the disk, drive, and repairs.
03-17-13, 07:29 PM
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Re: Steaming, Physical Media, and the Future of Home Video
Thanks for the info! I'll have to drop them an email and ask how to sign up for that. The last time I checked their website, it mentions being able to rent discs for an additional charge, but no mention of a disc-only option. Maybe it's a secret club!
03-17-13, 09:40 PM
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Re: Steaming, Physical Media, and the Future of Home Video
I've seen this on a computer. A client brought in their tower system in which they'd attempted to watch a rental disk that was cracked. It literally flew apart inside the drive after a few minutes (so they indicated) and took out some of the mechanism. It cost them the disk, drive, and repairs.
03-20-13, 02:39 PM
#90
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Re: Steaming, Physical Media, and the Future of Home Video
Right now it's $ 14.99 to stream the Hobbit on Amazon. No thanks. I'll pay $ 5 more to own it.
03-20-13, 02:49 PM
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03-20-13, 04:35 PM
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Re: Steaming, Physical Media, and the Future of Home Video
It does include download. But it's limited to 2 locations and a few compatible devices (Windows PC, iPad, Kindle Fire, Tivo DVR)
http://www.amazon.com/gp/feature.htm...v_sr_download2
It also comes with an hour of bonus features. I'm not sure what's included, it just says, "Includes production videos hosted by Peter Jackson!"
http://www.amazon.com/The-Hobbit-Une...dp/B00BMVTS1S/
http://www.amazon.com/gp/feature.htm...v_sr_download2
It also comes with an hour of bonus features. I'm not sure what's included, it just says, "Includes production videos hosted by Peter Jackson!"
http://www.amazon.com/The-Hobbit-Une...dp/B00BMVTS1S/
03-24-13, 09:32 AM
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Re: Steaming, Physical Media, and the Future of Home Video
That was a fantastic read, but I stumbled upon this thread in about as an ironic way as possible. After installing XBMC on my laptop, which I play through my HDTV via hdmi and getting my brother's Hulu Plus password, I decided I was done purchasing DVDs (not Blu-rays) and wandered into the DVD Discussion Forum to see if there was some sort of "Day I Quit DVD" thread or something to contribute to.
What I found, was this gem of a thread and a link to a conversation I read wishing I could have contributed to given the many areas it hit personally (Hell, I even own a DVD copy of Cinemania).
Yet, I am still quitting DVDs. Perhaps, for now, I am simply lucky in that I can use my brother's Netflix and Hulu Plus accounts (costs me nothing) and I have not run into any of the streaming issues it seems you fellow have. The worst that has happened so far is that a film/show takes a little longer to load than usual on Netflix before beginning and playing without stuttering.
And frankly, I think the claims about video quality, especially in comparison to SD-DVD and MOD DVDs, might be due to the a combination of the manner in which you are using the services (via IP proxy) and sample size. Two films into Criterion's Hulu channel, the films (Drunken Angel and Rossellini's Fear) played without issue and the video was certainly on par with every MOD disc I have ever seen, which is important considering Fear is not even available in the US on MOD as of now.
In regard to special features, I am in the same boat as Stuart. It is rare I finish a film and feel compelled to dive into the special features in lieu of another film. At most, I will take some time to read about the film, generally, on the internet while deciding what to watch next or to simply take a viewing break. But, supplemental features at best are half-paid attention to by me if they are played at all.
Another issue not addressed in the conversation that I feel is valid, especially given the championing of MOD discs, is disc rot. I purchased early Warner Archives titles that I had to immediately rip to a hard drive b/c of reports that the media was easily corruptible. Spending $10-$20 for discs that are burned on shoddy commercial blank discs as opposed to professional pressed has become a bridge too far for me. Perhaps, if I truly MUST see a particular film that is MOD (Coppola's The Rain People, being one I own), I will make the purchase b/c there are simply certain directors I hold in higher regard than others and whose films I want to see for the first time over others. But, generally, even if I am interested in a MOD title, I am positive that I can find at least 5 other titles between Criterion's Hulu channel and Netflix that I am equally interested in seeing.
As was noted in the conversation, life is literally too short to watch everything. Finally realizing that, I have tended to relax. I got into film relatively late in life (not until late in my senior year in high school, 2003, when I took Classic Films and discovered A Streetcar Named Desire and On the Waterfront). From that point on, I became as insatiable as I was unguided. I discovered great films in bizarre ways. For one, being a proud Italian-American 17 year old, I mistook Brando for an Italian-American actor and sought out every thing he was in that I could get my hands on (a happy accident). Scorsese quickly became my favorite director and remains so today because Mean Streets showed a society of real Italian-American New Yorkers that were more relateable than the operatic mafioso of The Godfather. My most misguided discovery was seeing Serpico and discovering Sidney Lumet. I had watched and loved Saturday Night Fever. Travolta is told he looks like Pacino, has a Serpico poster on his bedroom wall, and starts shouting "Attica! Attica!" the morning after. I stumbled on the Serpico DVD for $7 in J&R one night, the DVD cover matching the poster, and bought it expecting to hear "Attica! Attica!" What I got was a great film and perfect segue to Dog Day Afternoon.
Those long winded reminiscences was the long road to my final point, which is that Criterion's Hulu station and to a lesser extent, Netflix, is the closest I can come today to being that naive kid browsing the J&R DVD-filled basement. And while, I refuse to watch films on my iPad barring long flights and never films I have not seen before, there is something to be said to be able to browse a film library, make discoveries, and not even need to wait until you get home to watch the film, let alone purchase it. The only exception is that if the film is available on Blu-ray, I do not watch it via streaming, if I don't own it yet, I wait to watch it until I get it in high definition.
As I near the 2,000 mark in my personal home media library (DVDs, HD-DVD, and Blu-ray) and have contemplated the spacing issues, it seems a reasonable line in the sand to draw at standard definition content. Streaming is not perfect, but the difference in quality between it and SD-DVD, is simply not of a degree that I don't find one a reasonable substitute for the other.
Regarding expiring Netflix titles. The website, instantwatcher.com has been invaluable to me in keeping track of what is set to arrive on Netflix and when and also, what is set to expire. It is also a much easier way to search the Netflix streaming library than trying to go through whatever Netflix interface you may be using.
What I found, was this gem of a thread and a link to a conversation I read wishing I could have contributed to given the many areas it hit personally (Hell, I even own a DVD copy of Cinemania).
Yet, I am still quitting DVDs. Perhaps, for now, I am simply lucky in that I can use my brother's Netflix and Hulu Plus accounts (costs me nothing) and I have not run into any of the streaming issues it seems you fellow have. The worst that has happened so far is that a film/show takes a little longer to load than usual on Netflix before beginning and playing without stuttering.
And frankly, I think the claims about video quality, especially in comparison to SD-DVD and MOD DVDs, might be due to the a combination of the manner in which you are using the services (via IP proxy) and sample size. Two films into Criterion's Hulu channel, the films (Drunken Angel and Rossellini's Fear) played without issue and the video was certainly on par with every MOD disc I have ever seen, which is important considering Fear is not even available in the US on MOD as of now.
In regard to special features, I am in the same boat as Stuart. It is rare I finish a film and feel compelled to dive into the special features in lieu of another film. At most, I will take some time to read about the film, generally, on the internet while deciding what to watch next or to simply take a viewing break. But, supplemental features at best are half-paid attention to by me if they are played at all.
Another issue not addressed in the conversation that I feel is valid, especially given the championing of MOD discs, is disc rot. I purchased early Warner Archives titles that I had to immediately rip to a hard drive b/c of reports that the media was easily corruptible. Spending $10-$20 for discs that are burned on shoddy commercial blank discs as opposed to professional pressed has become a bridge too far for me. Perhaps, if I truly MUST see a particular film that is MOD (Coppola's The Rain People, being one I own), I will make the purchase b/c there are simply certain directors I hold in higher regard than others and whose films I want to see for the first time over others. But, generally, even if I am interested in a MOD title, I am positive that I can find at least 5 other titles between Criterion's Hulu channel and Netflix that I am equally interested in seeing.
As was noted in the conversation, life is literally too short to watch everything. Finally realizing that, I have tended to relax. I got into film relatively late in life (not until late in my senior year in high school, 2003, when I took Classic Films and discovered A Streetcar Named Desire and On the Waterfront). From that point on, I became as insatiable as I was unguided. I discovered great films in bizarre ways. For one, being a proud Italian-American 17 year old, I mistook Brando for an Italian-American actor and sought out every thing he was in that I could get my hands on (a happy accident). Scorsese quickly became my favorite director and remains so today because Mean Streets showed a society of real Italian-American New Yorkers that were more relateable than the operatic mafioso of The Godfather. My most misguided discovery was seeing Serpico and discovering Sidney Lumet. I had watched and loved Saturday Night Fever. Travolta is told he looks like Pacino, has a Serpico poster on his bedroom wall, and starts shouting "Attica! Attica!" the morning after. I stumbled on the Serpico DVD for $7 in J&R one night, the DVD cover matching the poster, and bought it expecting to hear "Attica! Attica!" What I got was a great film and perfect segue to Dog Day Afternoon.
Those long winded reminiscences was the long road to my final point, which is that Criterion's Hulu station and to a lesser extent, Netflix, is the closest I can come today to being that naive kid browsing the J&R DVD-filled basement. And while, I refuse to watch films on my iPad barring long flights and never films I have not seen before, there is something to be said to be able to browse a film library, make discoveries, and not even need to wait until you get home to watch the film, let alone purchase it. The only exception is that if the film is available on Blu-ray, I do not watch it via streaming, if I don't own it yet, I wait to watch it until I get it in high definition.
As I near the 2,000 mark in my personal home media library (DVDs, HD-DVD, and Blu-ray) and have contemplated the spacing issues, it seems a reasonable line in the sand to draw at standard definition content. Streaming is not perfect, but the difference in quality between it and SD-DVD, is simply not of a degree that I don't find one a reasonable substitute for the other.
Regarding expiring Netflix titles. The website, instantwatcher.com has been invaluable to me in keeping track of what is set to arrive on Netflix and when and also, what is set to expire. It is also a much easier way to search the Netflix streaming library than trying to go through whatever Netflix interface you may be using.
Last edited by BambooLounge; 03-24-13 at 09:37 AM.
04-06-13, 03:23 PM
#97
DVD Talk Special Edition
Re: Steaming, Physical Media, and the Future of Home Video
Stuart, that conversation was an interesting read although, like someone else had pointed out, it did have a strong anti-streaming stance to it. You and your friend brought up a couple topics that I added my thoughts to and posted below. It has been spoiled for length.
Spoiler:
04-06-13, 05:58 PM
#98
Re: Steaming, Physical Media, and the Future of Home Video
Re: Aspect ratio. I work in television and I've seen more aspect ratio problems than ever since the whole hi-def era began, with images getting cropped on top and bottom or on the sides, or anamorphic stretching of non-anamorphic footage or on-air squeezing of anamorphic footage. We got a documentary series from a PBS supplier in which all the archival footage (originally in the old 1:33 Academy Ratio) was stretched out to conform to HD. So everyone in black-and-white looked fat. I complained to the distributor and he claimed he couldn't tell what I was talking about.
Just in the past two weeks at my station, we did some kind of transition that required putting everything in borders on all sides, no matter what the aspect ratio or whether it was HD or SD, which means making everything smaller. It's just stupid. And the techies have tried to explain to me why they did it and why it will be that way for a while and I don't understand a thing they're telling me. Techie Talk is a completely different language. It's very frustrating. My boss signed off on it--he's a genius who can't tell the difference between an image that's "stretched" or "squeezed"--so there's nothing I can do about it.
Just in the past two weeks at my station, we did some kind of transition that required putting everything in borders on all sides, no matter what the aspect ratio or whether it was HD or SD, which means making everything smaller. It's just stupid. And the techies have tried to explain to me why they did it and why it will be that way for a while and I don't understand a thing they're telling me. Techie Talk is a completely different language. It's very frustrating. My boss signed off on it--he's a genius who can't tell the difference between an image that's "stretched" or "squeezed"--so there's nothing I can do about it.
04-10-13, 09:39 PM
#99
DVD Talk Gold Edition
Re: Steaming, Physical Media, and the Future of Home Video
I started reading this thread when it was created and most of what I had to say was said much more elegantly than I could. But, one thing that is not mentioned, and I'm having a huge problem with right now, is that there are so many different sites that you have to create an account for. You can't just have an Ultraviolet account, you have to have a Vudu and a Flixster one as well, plus any number of studio accounts just to get the movie from the digital content sheet to the Ultraviolet account. If you want to link with a couple people, ten more steps to go through.
Right now, Ultraviolet is saying I have 3 accounts. The first one I created and deleted within an hour because I was invited to join a group and I had to join through a request from them. So, deleted the first account, created a second. Somehow, along the way, a 3rd was created. I have no idea how this happened, so didn't do it on purpose, but it's there and now has 8 movies that aren't connected. (took 2 months of back and forth to find out I had the 3rd account, to make matters worse). Yet, when I try to merge the accounts, I'm not able because they want me to delete someone and all the movies already there.
I consider myself fairly computer savvy. I've been working with them since the early-80s. I am no programmer but I can get around the web and many, any sites without problem. This, this is kicking my butt. I haven't been able to actually WATCH a movie through any of these programs as they don't like my iPod Touch, they don't like my Android tablet and I find watching at a computer screen way too uncomfortable. None of them support the Wii either, so I can't watch on my TV. My point is, if a 30 something can't figure out all the ins and outs, how is the majority of the people over my age going to? I know about 2 of my many relatives that maybe able to figure this out-if it goes perfectly.
I was kind of excited when my friend told me about the Ultraviolet group-hey, a way of seeing a bunch of films without risking losing a disc and hey, when I travel, I can watch on my tablet! Yet, none of this has actually happened in 4 months.
This is why streaming won't become the only option. To me, it seems like they are working against themselves. There needs to be way fewer accounts and sign ins and lot better customer service to work with the customers. If things had actually worked, I may have branched out into renting or finally getting Netflix...instead, I am firmly keeping my money in my pocketbook, saving for the physical disc of anything I want to see.
Right now, Ultraviolet is saying I have 3 accounts. The first one I created and deleted within an hour because I was invited to join a group and I had to join through a request from them. So, deleted the first account, created a second. Somehow, along the way, a 3rd was created. I have no idea how this happened, so didn't do it on purpose, but it's there and now has 8 movies that aren't connected. (took 2 months of back and forth to find out I had the 3rd account, to make matters worse). Yet, when I try to merge the accounts, I'm not able because they want me to delete someone and all the movies already there.
I consider myself fairly computer savvy. I've been working with them since the early-80s. I am no programmer but I can get around the web and many, any sites without problem. This, this is kicking my butt. I haven't been able to actually WATCH a movie through any of these programs as they don't like my iPod Touch, they don't like my Android tablet and I find watching at a computer screen way too uncomfortable. None of them support the Wii either, so I can't watch on my TV. My point is, if a 30 something can't figure out all the ins and outs, how is the majority of the people over my age going to? I know about 2 of my many relatives that maybe able to figure this out-if it goes perfectly.
I was kind of excited when my friend told me about the Ultraviolet group-hey, a way of seeing a bunch of films without risking losing a disc and hey, when I travel, I can watch on my tablet! Yet, none of this has actually happened in 4 months.
This is why streaming won't become the only option. To me, it seems like they are working against themselves. There needs to be way fewer accounts and sign ins and lot better customer service to work with the customers. If things had actually worked, I may have branched out into renting or finally getting Netflix...instead, I am firmly keeping my money in my pocketbook, saving for the physical disc of anything I want to see.
04-10-13, 10:28 PM
#100
DVD Talk Hero
Re: Steaming, Physical Media, and the Future of Home Video
But streeming is the fyoochure!