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Second Annual Drive-In/Exploitation/B-Movie Challenge March 31-April 30 2011

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Second Annual Drive-In/Exploitation/B-Movie Challenge March 31-April 30 2011

Old 03-05-11, 04:59 AM
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Re: Second Annual Drive-In/Exploitation/B-Movie Challenge March 31-April 30 2011

Originally Posted by MinLShaw
My wife and friends might tell you that watching a movie with a commentary track is like watching it with me, as I have a bad habit of chiming in with trivia throughout a movie when I'm familiar with it.
Yeah, me too. I can't watch a movie without a laptop and wikipedia and IMDB. And don't get me started on a movie I know like the back of my hand, like Star Wars or Wizard of Oz.
Old 03-05-11, 05:31 AM
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Re: Second Annual Drive-In/Exploitation/B-Movie Challenge March 31-April 30 2011

Originally Posted by caligulathegod
Yeah, me too. I can't watch a movie without a laptop and wikipedia and IMDB. And don't get me started on a movie I know like the back of my hand, like Star Wars or Wizard of Oz.
I'm particularly bad about it if it was something based on a book that I've read. Between contrasting the source material with the adaptation, sharing whatever I pick up from commentary tracks, making-ofs and other materials and my own personal reminisces (like recalling how special it was to see Jurassic Park at a drive-in, with real trees around the screen), the only talk-along offense I don't commit is spoiling plot points.
Old 03-05-11, 07:35 AM
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Re: Second Annual Drive-In/Exploitation/B-Movie Challenge March 31-April 30 2011

Originally Posted by caligulathegod
Maybe I'll have to make it less ambiguous. I don't think I said you get credit for 2 riffed versions. You can watch the film straight for a credit, then with a commentary for a full credit, then a second commentary for a half credit. It honestly never occurred to me that a person would watch a film straight and then with Riffing. I always took that as an either/or. To be consistent, though, I would interpret the rule as watching a movie straight gets a credit, then watching it riffed gets a credit, then watching a second riff gets a half credit, just like the regular commentary (as I was saying, at this point its no longer about the movie and more about the jokes, so it doesn't deserve a full credit). Theoretically, someone could watch a film straight for a credit, then watch a commentary or a riff for a credit, and a third viewing of either a riff or commentary for half a credit. Whatever configuration, it must include one straight viewing and the third viewing is half a credit no matter what permutation it is.

Now, as far as no straight viewing and just commentary or riff: Commentary only gets half a credit. Riff gets a full credit. Two commentaries (with no straight viewing) gets half a credit each. Two riffs gets 1-1/2 credits because second riff is about the jokes and no longer the movie. Why does the riff get special treatment? Part of the impetus of this challenge is a celebration of bad movies. The riffs are just a meta version of this. Even edited, with the host segments they still equal out to a feature. Commentaries are a different dynamic. It is a bonus feature centered around the making of the film or the experiences of those involved. Most of the time they turn the volume down unless they want to draw your attention to something. Usually, they are just wankfests about how great it was to work with so and so. Even the best commentaries that illuminate the behind the scenes of the filmmaking process are still adjunct to the film itself. If it doesn't take you out of the story and into the film as a medium, then the commentary is not doing its job. If it is one of those crappy commentaries that just describe the action then it doesn't deserve any special status. That basically equivalent to watching a movie, then watching it again with the closed captioning on.

That said, commentaries are not banned. You can watch as many as you want. It's a movie watching challenge, not a commentary watching challenge. You aren't being punished for watching commentaries. You are being incentivised to watch movies. Ergo, watching a movie gets you a full credit. You only get a full credit for a commentary if you watch the movie proper (incentive to watch movie). Watching the movie with Riffing, you are essentially watching the movie, but with jokes-like most people would be doing if watching with friends anyway. Second riffing borders on abuse of the "you may only watch and list a movie once" rule.
Thanks for taking all that time to type that up. I doubt anyone will watch a commentary alone anyway, and it makes sense to count riffs as a whole film, if only to maybe encourage more participation by "less adventurous" viewers.
Old 03-05-11, 09:36 AM
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Re: Second Annual Drive-In/Exploitation/B-Movie Challenge March 31-April 30 2011

Yeah, honestly I'm not sure if I'm even entertained by mst3k any more. The riffs are pretty dated. I can see watching commentary alone in horror since a lot of people rewatch old favorites. There seems to be extra emphasis on watching first time viewings here. If only to justify buying those drive in sets. What other challenge would have cindy and donna as the most watched movie?
Old 03-05-11, 01:45 PM
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Re: Second Annual Drive-In/Exploitation/B-Movie Challenge March 31-April 30 2011

Don't expect a great big variety of viewing from me this time around. There's a LOT of sexploitation that I've got stacked up for this challenge.
Old 03-05-11, 03:11 PM
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Re: Second Annual Drive-In/Exploitation/B-Movie Challenge March 31-April 30 2011

I'm really starting to look forward to this even though it looks like I won't have as much free time this April as I did last year. I picked up a bunch of Poverty Row movies and that got me wondering about things like Charlie Chan, Mr. Moto and the Rathbone Sherlock Holmes movies. Would these qualify?

Also, don't forget to add Bill Rebane to the safe list. Last year caligulathegod (I think) mentioned having an autographed poster. Any story behind that? I'm planning on seeing most if not all of Mr. Rebane's films this year so any insights would be appreciated.
Old 03-05-11, 04:44 PM
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Re: Second Annual Drive-In/Exploitation/B-Movie Challenge March 31-April 30 2011

Originally Posted by caligulathegod

Pretty much any western, really. Maybe John Ford "A pictures" should be avoided, but Westerns are usually B films. Spaghetti ones are special enough to make the checklist as they are especially exploitative.
Not all westerns were B-movies, esp. in the postwar era, when "adult westerns" began in earnest. Most westerns made after the war were not B-westerns, particularly those starring major stars like John Wayne (who'd made B-westerns in the 1930s before he hit major stardom in Ford's STAGECOACH), James Stewart, Henry Fonda, Gary Cooper, William Holden, Kirk Douglas, Burt Lancaster, Robert Mitchum, Tyrone Power, Randolph Scott, Joel McCrea, Alan Ladd, Audie Murphy, etc.

B-westerns were a distinct category of film production from the 1930s to the early 1950s and usually ran about an hour in length and starred people like Tom Mix, Tim McCoy, Buck Jones, Ken Maynard, Hoot Gibson, Gene Autry, Roy Rogers, Johnny Mack Brown, Allan "Rocky" Lane, Lash LaRue, Sunset Carson, Monte Hale, Tim Holt, Don "Red" Barry, etc. Usually, but not always in black-and-white.

Although a handful of studios made B-westerns (Columbia, Universal, and, in the 1930s only, Warner), they were usually made by "Poverty Row" outfits like Republic Pictures, Monogram and PRC.

Last edited by Ash Ketchum; 03-05-11 at 05:26 PM.
Old 03-05-11, 05:48 PM
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Re: Second Annual Drive-In/Exploitation/B-Movie Challenge March 31-April 30 2011

Originally Posted by Ash Ketchum
Not all westerns were B-movies, esp. in the postwar era, when "adult westerns" began in earnest. Most westerns made after the war were not B-westerns, particularly those starring major stars like John Wayne (who'd made B-westerns in the 1930s before he hit major stardom in Ford's STAGECOACH), James Stewart, Henry Fonda, Gary Cooper, William Holden, Kirk Douglas, Burt Lancaster, Robert Mitchum, Tyrone Power, Randolph Scott, Joel McCrea, Alan Ladd, Audie Murphy, etc.

B-westerns were a distinct category of film production from the 1930s to the early 1950s and usually ran about an hour in length and starred people like Tom Mix, Tim McCoy, Buck Jones, Ken Maynard, Hoot Gibson, Gene Autry, Roy Rogers, Johnny Mack Brown, Allan "Rocky" Lane, Lash LaRue, Sunset Carson, Monte Hale, Tim Holt, Don "Red" Barry, etc. Usually, but not always in black-and-white.

Although a handful of studios made B-westerns (Columbia, Universal, and, in the 1930s only, Warner), they were usually made by "Poverty Row" outfits like Republic Pictures, Monogram and PRC.
Right, I was generalizing. I said to stay away from the John Ford A pictures and the like. But I really don't want to open that can of worms. There is NO way I'd be able to tell someone what western was safe or not if they can't tell. Outside of some obvious ones, like High Noon and even The Unforgiven or Silverado I don't think I'd be able to tell. There might be a few hundred A Westerns, but I bet there are 1000s of B westerns. For the most part, it was a B Genre. Spaghetti Westerns are 100% safe. American Westerns that came after and were inspired by the spaghetties, like Hang 'em High, are safe. I don't plan on quibbling. If someone can't tell why Outlaw Josey Wales is allowed and Unforgiven is not, then I won't argue with them. It's too subjective. Better to just allow whatever anyone wants to watch in certain genres than argue. If that means someone counts Unforgiven, then so be it.
Old 03-05-11, 05:55 PM
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Re: Second Annual Drive-In/Exploitation/B-Movie Challenge March 31-April 30 2011

What about serials? Aka Chapter Plays, aka Cliffhangers. Like FLASH GORDON, BUCK ROGERS, BATMAN, CAPTAIN MARVEL and THE GREEN HORNET, in which a 15-20-minute chapter played once a week at children's matinees, with B-westerns, cartoons, comedy shorts, etc. on the program. We're talking 1930s to roughly 1955. I have tons of these and I need an excuse to finally sit down to watch them all. They generally had 12-15 chapters per serial, about 15 min. each chapter. If they're included, how do we count them?

Like this:




Here's a more obscure one:
Old 03-05-11, 06:39 PM
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Re: Second Annual Drive-In/Exploitation/B-Movie Challenge March 31-April 30 2011

Yeah, we had serials last year. I think we counted them using the TV show-type formula. I need to re-read last year's thread to see how we did them. I'm going to redo the opening thread sometime this week and make it more clear. I was under the gun and just copied last year's thread. I want it to look classier like Chad's horror challenge. We also have Hamilton Books as a sponsor with some great prizes.
Old 03-05-11, 08:27 PM
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Re: Second Annual Drive-In/Exploitation/B-Movie Challenge March 31-April 30 2011

^ wasn't it like the SciFi challenge a 15-24min episode counted as a fourth.
Old 03-05-11, 08:30 PM
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Re: Second Annual Drive-In/Exploitation/B-Movie Challenge March 31-April 30 2011

Originally Posted by caligulathegod
Yeah, honestly I'm not sure if I'm even entertained by mst3k any more. The riffs are pretty dated. I can see watching commentary alone in horror since a lot of people rewatch old favorites. There seems to be extra emphasis on watching first time viewings here. If only to justify buying those drive in sets. What other challenge would have cindy and donna as the most watched movie?
Used DVDs are cheap enough now that I've double-dipped recently on a few films just for the commentaries, so I could see myself watching some commentaries alone if I didn't have so much unwatched stuff to keep me otherwise occupied.
Originally Posted by Mondo Kane
Don't expect a great big variety of viewing from me this time around. There's a LOT of sexploitation that I've got stacked up for this challenge.
I'm going to try to make myself hit a few of the sub-genres I missed last time. Starting with Spaghetti Westerns, Badly-Dubbed Chop-Socky, '70s Porn, and maybe an actual Poverty Row B-Movie or two.
Originally Posted by Ash Ketchum
What about serials? Aka Chapter Plays, aka Cliffhangers. Like FLASH GORDON, BUCK ROGERS, BATMAN, CAPTAIN MARVEL and THE GREEN HORNET, in which a 15-20-minute chapter played once a week at children's matinees, with B-westerns, cartoons, comedy shorts, etc. on the program. We're talking 1930s to roughly 1955. I have tons of these and I need an excuse to finally sit down to watch them all. They generally had 12-15 chapters per serial, about 15 min. each chapter. If they're included, how do we count them?
I watched The Return of Chandu (1934) and SOS Coast Guard (1937) (twelve chapters each) during the last Challenge and counted each as 3 entries.

Edit: Here's caligulathegod's post from last year's discussion thread telling us how to count them:
Originally Posted by caligulathegod
Serials are definitely B movies. More so than regular shorts, they all add up to a specific story and were definitely part of the B movie cycle of the golden age. I think we could probably go with the Sci-Fi rule on TV Mini-series (one"night" equals an entry), on Serials (we'll go with an hour's worth per entry), provided they actually were theatrical serials. A serial episode is about 15-20 minutes, so an hour's worth counts as an entry. 4-15 minutes ones or 3-20 minute episodes. I'll update the opening post in a bit. I'ma nappin' before midnight and the start of the challenge.
And since we're talking about serials, I'll post this link to serials available on archive.org again.

Last edited by Dimension X; 03-05-11 at 08:44 PM.
Old 03-05-11, 09:56 PM
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Re: Second Annual Drive-In/Exploitation/B-Movie Challenge March 31-April 30 2011

Been going through the movies I own looking for eligible movies for the challenge and so far found 25, varied among tv movies, bombs, before they were famous, and b movies. Amazing how you can have movies that you thought were decent, but critics gave a bomb to. Been using the Rotten Tomatoes site, and so far found out a lot of horror movies were critical bombs.
Old 03-06-11, 08:13 AM
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Re: Second Annual Drive-In/Exploitation/B-Movie Challenge March 31-April 30 2011

I'd love to squeeze in Italian westerns and Hong Kong kung fu films, but if I go through just my Japanese collection, I've already got close to 100 films eligible for this challenge that I want to see, from Zatoichi, Gamera and Godzilla to Yakuza, Sonny Chiba and female ninjas, with Rica, Sukeban Deka and Ultraman movies in between.

Which brings up my next question: What about anime?

I understand that TV anime is not eligible but what about all the OVA (made-for-video) titles, many of which are the equivalent of R-rated exploitation-style genres, e.g. the ultraviolent crime thrillers Crying Freeman and Golgo 13, or horror/supernatural stuff like Vampire Princess Miyu and Spirit Warrior, or ninja titles like Yotoden and Ninja Resurrection?

What about anime movies? I'd leave out the high profile stuff by Miyazaki (PRINCESS MONONOKE, SPIRITED AWAY) and Satoshi Kon (TOKYO GODFATHERS, PAPRIKA) and even Mamoru Oshii (GHOST IN THE SHELL, SKY CRAWLERS), but what about more "midnight movie"-type films like AKIRA, WICKED CITY, NINJA SCROLL, VAMPIRE HUNTER D, LEGEND OF THE OVERFIEND, PERFECT BLUE, etc.?
Old 03-06-11, 09:54 AM
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Re: Second Annual Drive-In/Exploitation/B-Movie Challenge March 31-April 30 2011

My first instinct was no, but I can see an argument for the hardcore stuff, like the tentacle porn and the pedophile stuff. I suppose if you understand the genre we're dealing with here and can match it up with appropriately sleazy exploitative anime, I don't see anything wrong with it. I'm not putting it on the checklist, but I can't see banning it. I'd lean more towards the offensive stuff over the stuff that is "cult" just because it has a following, like Akira.
Old 03-06-11, 10:14 AM
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Re: Second Annual Drive-In/Exploitation/B-Movie Challenge March 31-April 30 2011

Originally Posted by Ash Ketchum
I'd love to squeeze in Italian westerns and Hong Kong kung fu films, but if I go through just my Japanese collection, I've already got close to 100 films eligible for this challenge that I want to see, from Zatoichi, Gamera and Godzilla to Yakuza, Sonny Chiba and female ninjas, with Rica, Sukeban Deka and Ultraman movies in between.

Which brings up my next question: What about anime?

I understand that TV anime is not eligible but what about all the OVA (made-for-video) titles, many of which are the equivalent of R-rated exploitation-style genres, e.g. the ultraviolent crime thrillers Crying Freeman and Golgo 13, or horror/supernatural stuff like Vampire Princess Miyu and Spirit Warrior, or ninja titles like Yotoden and Ninja Resurrection?

What about anime movies? I'd leave out the high profile stuff by Miyazaki (PRINCESS MONONOKE, SPIRITED AWAY) and Satoshi Kon (TOKYO GODFATHERS, PAPRIKA) and even Mamoru Oshii (GHOST IN THE SHELL, SKY CRAWLERS), but what about more "midnight movie"-type films like AKIRA, WICKED CITY, NINJA SCROLL, VAMPIRE HUNTER D, LEGEND OF THE OVERFIEND, PERFECT BLUE, etc.?
personally I'd save those for August's Animation Challenge ...
Old 03-06-11, 12:12 PM
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Re: Second Annual Drive-In/Exploitation/B-Movie Challenge March 31-April 30 2011

Originally Posted by caligulathegod
My first instinct was no, but I can see an argument for the hardcore stuff, like the tentacle porn and the pedophile stuff. I suppose if you understand the genre we're dealing with here and can match it up with appropriately sleazy exploitative anime, I don't see anything wrong with it. I'm not putting it on the checklist, but I can't see banning it. I'd lean more towards the offensive stuff over the stuff that is "cult" just because it has a following, like Akira.
What about ultraviolent films like NINJA SCROLL or the FIST OF THE NORTH STAR movie (1986) or things like WICKED CITY and DEVIL HUNTER YOHKO which are borderline hentai?
Old 03-06-11, 02:30 PM
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Re: Second Annual Drive-In/Exploitation/B-Movie Challenge March 31-April 30 2011

Adding to anime that may be safe. I looked this up on Rotten Tomatoes last night, that Yu-Gi-Oh The Movie was such a bomb according to the critics that it falls under the 20% or lower rating on Rotten Tomatoes.
Old 03-06-11, 03:17 PM
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Re: Second Annual Drive-In/Exploitation/B-Movie Challenge March 31-April 30 2011

I do have a bunch of those 50 movie packs that should qualify.

this might be interesting, but can I really take 200 hours of crap for the entire month?
Old 03-06-11, 07:44 PM
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Re: Second Annual Drive-In/Exploitation/B-Movie Challenge March 31-April 30 2011

Originally Posted by shadokitty
Adding to anime that may be safe. I looked this up on Rotten Tomatoes last night, that Yu-Gi-Oh The Movie was such a bomb according to the critics that it falls under the 20% or lower rating on Rotten Tomatoes.
Of course, the kids who were the target audience had no say in the rankings on Rotten Tomatoes. I may have been the only one who went to see that in a theater who'd actually read a review of it first.
Old 03-06-11, 07:53 PM
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Re: Second Annual Drive-In/Exploitation/B-Movie Challenge March 31-April 30 2011

Originally Posted by That'sAllFolks
I do have a bunch of those 50 movie packs that should qualify.

this might be interesting, but can I really take 200 hours of crap for the entire month?
Look at it this way. You bought that set and now it is a white elephant. Now you will get some use out of it. And with this challenge, the worse the better. You can write about how much each movie sucked. There's something oddly gratifying about that. Plus, some are actually good. I have yet to see a blaxploitation movieI didn't enjoy on some level.
Old 03-06-11, 08:42 PM
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Re: Second Annual Drive-In/Exploitation/B-Movie Challenge March 31-April 30 2011

Originally Posted by That'sAllFolks
I do have a bunch of those 50 movie packs that should qualify.

this might be interesting, but can I really take 200 hours of crap for the entire month?
The craptastic factor is directly related to how you feel about a genre. I'm a big fan of "B" Sci-Fi and Horror. I grew up watching lots of those "B" Westerns on Saturday afternoon TV and many of the Sci-Fi/Horror ones on the late Friday/Saturday "Midnight Movie" type shows. Those PD sets are a form of comfort food... I'm looking forward to finally "making" the time to watch those "White Elephants".
Old 03-06-11, 09:35 PM
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Re: Second Annual Drive-In/Exploitation/B-Movie Challenge March 31-April 30 2011

I was looking up anime, and although it wasn't part of my vision for the challenge, I don't see why appropriate movies couldn't count. Equivalent movies like Ninja and Wuxia films, lurid crime dramas, sexploitation (the type of films that anime fans like to de-emphasize as stereotypical to non-fans but are really not typical-embrace those), etc. should count. I don't know enough about anime to pick individual titles, but I'm sure with your vast collection you can find appropriate versions that reflect the aesthetic of this challenge.

I'd actually kind of appreciate semi-detailed (as much as you want to write, but about a paragraph, perhaps) reviews on those for my own interest. I am not a fan of anime (except for Miyazaki), but I like extreme cinema. The anime shelf at the video places is an intimidating place if you aren't familiar with it. It would be nice to be able to find films that are more appropriate to my interests and I'm sure others would like it, too.

Anime Exploitation

Last edited by caligulathegod; 03-07-11 at 03:34 AM.
Old 03-06-11, 10:28 PM
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Re: Second Annual Drive-In/Exploitation/B-Movie Challenge March 31-April 30 2011

Originally Posted by caligulathegod
Yeah, that's really kind of the intention with the Historical challenge, You can watch all War movies, or all westerns, or whatever. If you get burned out, you can always break it up with another genre, but there's nothing preventing anyone from sticking to one genre. With this challenge, you can watch all spaghetti western, all kung fu, all pornography, all blaxploitation, or mix and match. As much as I love the other challenges, I think this one is my favorite whether I was running it or not. It covers all my interests and obsessions and it's always fresh.
And maybe that's when I'll watch the Dr Zhivago that I missed in the Oscar challenge!
Old 03-06-11, 10:33 PM
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Re: Second Annual Drive-In/Exploitation/B-Movie Challenge March 31-April 30 2011

Originally Posted by omike
I'm really starting to look forward to this even though it looks like I won't have as much free time this April as I did last year. I picked up a bunch of Poverty Row movies and that got me wondering about things like Charlie Chan, Mr. Moto and the Rathbone Sherlock Holmes movies. Would these qualify?
Those would seem like B to me...

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