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Second Annual Drive-In/Exploitation/B-Movie Challenge March 31-April 30 2011

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Second Annual Drive-In/Exploitation/B-Movie Challenge March 31-April 30 2011

Old 03-03-11, 01:58 PM
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Re: Second Annual Drive-In/Exploitation/B-Movie Challenge March 31-April 30 2011

Originally Posted by Giles
wait... this is the discussion thread ... or the list thread... you confuse me so Caligula
Probably because of the "reserved" posts? I assume those are being saved for something awesome.
Old 03-03-11, 02:30 PM
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Re: Second Annual Drive-In/Exploitation/B-Movie Challenge March 31-April 30 2011

The reserved posts are for the checklist and for a schedule of movies coming up that might be suitable. I just haven't had a chance to look them up yet. This is the first day of a work in progress. I work nights and sleep days, so I'm at a disadvantage.

I can remove woman's pictures from the check list but no one is required to watch every genre listed. I did remove tv bio film since it is covered by the historical challenge.
Old 03-03-11, 04:04 PM
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Re: Second Annual Drive-In/Exploitation/B-Movie Challenge March 31-April 30 2011

Originally Posted by caligulathegod
This is the first day of a work in progress. I work nights and sleep days, so I'm at a disadvantage.
...but perfect for this challenge
Old 03-03-11, 07:13 PM
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Re: Second Annual Drive-In/Exploitation/B-Movie Challenge March 31-April 30 2011

Add me to the dissidents who think each commentary should count just the same. If I had one chief complaint with challenges, it's that commentaries and bonus content really becomes a liability. I'm one of those people who like to watch those deleted scenes and making-ofs when I watch the feature. Often, I bypass that content because it doesn't count for the challenge at hand. It's not my call to make, but I wanted to go on record with my position.

Anyway, am I correct in thinking pretty much anything represented here should be safe for this challenge?
Old 03-03-11, 07:38 PM
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Re: Second Annual Drive-In/Exploitation/B-Movie Challenge March 31-April 30 2011

whil im not out on workers comp this yr im ready for this with a nice stack of movies and back up in my que
Old 03-04-11, 01:32 AM
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Re: Second Annual Drive-In/Exploitation/B-Movie Challenge March 31-April 30 2011

Originally Posted by MinLShaw
Add me to the dissidents who think each commentary should count just the same. If I had one chief complaint with challenges, it's that commentaries and bonus content really becomes a liability. I'm one of those people who like to watch those deleted scenes and making-ofs when I watch the feature. Often, I bypass that content because it doesn't count for the challenge at hand. It's not my call to make, but I wanted to go on record with my position.

Anyway, am I correct in thinking pretty much anything represented here should be safe for this challenge?
How would you feel about, say, just watching the same movie over and over again? I'm talking normal, regular soundtrack, just putting the film on repeat and watching it over and over and over. Should something like that count? It takes just as long to watch it the 5th time as the first time.

This is essentially the same thing. You get to watch the movie, then you get to watch the commentary. At this point, you've experienced the movie twice, visually the same twice and two different audio versions, and get full credit for each. With additional commentaries, it's basically not much different from watching the movie for a 3rd or more time. Normal rules preclude watching the same movie over and over, but since the commentaries are different, I'm at least giving credit for the new commentary. It's slightly different from the other challenges, but I view these as Movie challenges rather than DVD challenges. I just don't think it's right to ban them, so it's just a slight "encouragement" to just go on to another movie rather than just watch the same one over and over. Depends on how you frame it.

Oh, and those movies look safe.
Old 03-04-11, 01:50 AM
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Re: Second Annual Drive-In/Exploitation/B-Movie Challenge March 31-April 30 2011

Originally Posted by caligulathegod
How would you feel about, say, just watching the same movie over and over again? I'm talking normal, regular soundtrack, just putting the film on repeat and watching it over and over and over. Should something like that count? It takes just as long to watch it the 5th time as the first time.

This is essentially the same thing.
I would argue that each commentary is a unique experience. That's why they're separate. Often, when there are multiple commentary tracks one will feature actors and the other will feature behind-the-scenes people. Those are people with very different perspectives about the production, with their own insights to be shared. An actor won't know jack about location scouting or problems getting permits to build sets in a little town. A makeup artist won't be able to illuminate what an actor was trying to accomplish with his performance. Why penalize someone who may be eager to hear those various anecdotes and insights just because they weren't composited into a singular commentary track?

Again, though, I defer to you as host. I know my own participation will be low, so it would be somewhat disingenuous for me to shoot my mouth off too much about a challenge where I won't be particularly active. And the handful of titles I'm currently planning to watch for the challenge don't even have commentary tracks, I don't think--certainly not more than one--so it's very unlikely that this will be an issue for me even within the confines of my limited participation.

Oh, and those movies look safe.
Safe...and bad.
Old 03-04-11, 05:55 AM
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Re: Second Annual Drive-In/Exploitation/B-Movie Challenge March 31-April 30 2011

Along with my question about creature features from the 50s and 60s, I was also wondering about Cutthroat Island. It was a big budget movie, but from what I understand, it was a box office flop.
Old 03-04-11, 07:07 AM
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Re: Second Annual Drive-In/Exploitation/B-Movie Challenge March 31-April 30 2011

Originally Posted by MinLShaw
I would argue that each commentary is a unique experience. That's why they're separate. Often, when there are multiple commentary tracks one will feature actors and the other will feature behind-the-scenes people. Those are people with very different perspectives about the production, with their own insights to be shared. An actor won't know jack about location scouting or problems getting permits to build sets in a little town. A makeup artist won't be able to illuminate what an actor was trying to accomplish with his performance. Why penalize someone who may be eager to hear those various anecdotes and insights just because they weren't composited into a singular commentary track?
It's a unique auditory experience. The visual experience is the same so it's only half unique. You get a free one, after that you are only getting credit for the unique parts. Otherwise you might as well just let someone watch their favorite movie 100 times and count it. I don't think ANY challenge allows that. The whole point is watching different movies.

And for all the high talk, let's be honest, the vast majority of commentaries are little more than wank fests. Not every commentary is an illuminating journey through the process of filmmaking. They are a sales gimmick. I go back to laserdisc, where the commentaries were rare, wonderful features, now they are contractual obligations. But again, I love them, too. That's why they aren't banned. I want to encourage watching different movies, so there's two ways to do it. Give full credit to multiple commentary views but give 2 credits for every unique film is the other way. At that point, it gets silly.

Originally Posted by shadokitty
Along with my question about creature features from the 50s and 60s, I was also wondering about Cutthroat Island. It was a big budget movie, but from what I understand, it was a box office flop.
Creature Features of the 50s and 60s were all B-Movies and are allowed (this includes Ray Harryhausen). I believe we also have a category for bombs, and Cutthroat Island is, I think, still the biggest bomb in Hollywood history. It bankrupt its studio and killed the career of its stars (and arguably its director). It is most definitely allowed. I'll put a link in later to last years list thread and you can see the types of movies that were watched.
Old 03-04-11, 10:18 AM
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Re: Second Annual Drive-In/Exploitation/B-Movie Challenge March 31-April 30 2011

Originally Posted by caligulathegod
and killed the career of its stars (and arguably its director).
I wouldn't say it killed their careers. The main stars haven't had any trouble finding work after that.
Old 03-04-11, 10:47 AM
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Re: Second Annual Drive-In/Exploitation/B-Movie Challenge March 31-April 30 2011

Just added the I Spit on Your Grave remake to the bottom of my Netflix queue so I'll remember it but it won't ship before April.

And I like how spaghetti Westerns are an approved category as I certainly have some of those in the unwatched pile.
Old 03-04-11, 11:35 AM
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Re: Second Annual Drive-In/Exploitation/B-Movie Challenge March 31-April 30 2011

Originally Posted by caligulathegod
Mystery Science Theater 3000, Riff Trax, Cinematic Titanic, etc.

Commentaries. To encourage actually watching the films, you may watch the film and then the commentary and credit it as two films. If you watch just the commentary, then count it as half a film. If there is a second commentary, then it counts as half a film (so 1 for the film, 1 for the commentary, .5 for second commentary).
Does this mean MST3K episodes (and the like) count as half entries unless the movie itself is watched, or are they counted differently from commentaries? And, if they are counted differently, why?
Old 03-04-11, 01:33 PM
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Re: Second Annual Drive-In/Exploitation/B-Movie Challenge March 31-April 30 2011

Originally Posted by caligulathegod
I can remove woman's pictures from the check list but no one is required to watch every genre listed.
Another vote for removal of Weepies from the challenge. You might want to add William Lustig to the list of safe directors.
Old 03-04-11, 03:46 PM
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Re: Second Annual Drive-In/Exploitation/B-Movie Challenge March 31-April 30 2011

Could you do links for the safe directors/actors to imdb? I'd find that useful.
Old 03-04-11, 05:06 PM
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Re: Second Annual Drive-In/Exploitation/B-Movie Challenge March 31-April 30 2011

Originally Posted by Mister Peepers
I wouldn't say it killed their careers. The main stars haven't had any trouble finding work after that.
I don't know. It was a pretty severe downturn. She went from A list to Stuart Little sequels. Matt Modine eats, I suppose.

Originally Posted by davidh777
Just added the I Spit on Your Grave remake to the bottom of my Netflix queue so I'll remember it but it won't ship before April.

And I like how spaghetti Westerns are an approved category as I certainly have some of those in the unwatched pile.
Pretty much any western, really. Maybe John Ford "A pictures" should be avoided, but Westerns are usually B films. Spaghetti ones are special enough to make the checklist as they are especially exploitative.

Originally Posted by Dimension X
Does this mean MST3K episodes (and the like) count as half entries unless the movie itself is watched, or are they counted differently from commentaries? And, if they are counted differently, why?
No, MST3K are full credit. No requirement to watch the movie proper.

Originally Posted by NoirFan
Another vote for removal of Weepies from the challenge. .
That might be worth extra if everyone hates it so much.

Originally Posted by Mister Peepers
Could you do links for the safe directors/actors to imdb? I'd find that useful.
I'll see if I can.
Old 03-04-11, 06:01 PM
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Re: Second Annual Drive-In/Exploitation/B-Movie Challenge March 31-April 30 2011

Minor observation - in addition to your already comprehensive distributor list, Caligula, you might also want to add Shout! Factory. Although they are repackaging a lot of former New Concorde releases, they are also putting out quite a few Corman titles previously unreleased.
Old 03-04-11, 08:28 PM
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Re: Second Annual Drive-In/Exploitation/B-Movie Challenge March 31-April 30 2011

Originally Posted by caligulathegod
No, MST3K are full credit. No requirement to watch the movie proper.
Shouldn't commentaries and "riffs" be counted the same way? How is listening to a director's commentary on a film he directed (or, for that matter, a Dave Friedman/Mike Vraney commentary on a film neither of them worked on) of less "value" than listening to Mike Nelson/Joel Hodgson/Kevin Murphy/whoever making jokes while you watch a film?
Old 03-04-11, 09:12 PM
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Re: Second Annual Drive-In/Exploitation/B-Movie Challenge March 31-April 30 2011

Originally Posted by Dimension X
Shouldn't commentaries and "riffs" be counted the same way? How is listening to a director's commentary on a film he directed (or, for that matter, a Dave Friedman/Mike Vraney commentary on a film neither of them worked on) of less "value" than listening to Mike Nelson/Joel Hodgson/Kevin Murphy/whoever making jokes while you watch a film?
good point, personally I'm beginning to rethink my opinion of the 'half number' count for a commentary track.
Old 03-04-11, 10:39 PM
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Re: Second Annual Drive-In/Exploitation/B-Movie Challenge March 31-April 30 2011

Originally Posted by caligulathegod

Pretty much any western, really. Maybe John Ford "A pictures" should be avoided, but Westerns are usually B films. Spaghetti ones are special enough to make the checklist as they are especially exploitative.

So then, a 4 pack of movies I plan to get that includes Hang Em High could count as well, even though that was not a spaghettti western.
Old 03-05-11, 02:42 AM
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Re: Second Annual Drive-In/Exploitation/B-Movie Challenge March 31-April 30 2011

Originally Posted by Dimension X
Shouldn't commentaries and "riffs" be counted the same way? How is listening to a director's commentary on a film he directed (or, for that matter, a Dave Friedman/Mike Vraney commentary on a film neither of them worked on) of less "value" than listening to Mike Nelson/Joel Hodgson/Kevin Murphy/whoever making jokes while you watch a film?
They are counted the same way. Commentary gets full credit in addition to the film proper. It's not until you get to a second and beyond commentary you get less credit (a 3rd or more viewing). I'd even argue that if you watched a film, then watched Joel and the Bots do a riff for MST3K on the film, then watched Cinematic Titanic riff on it, for a third viewing, it's no longer about the film and more about the jokes. When it gets to third or 4th viewings, then well, like I was told as a kid, more than 2 shakes and you're playing with it.


If you are talking about how watching a commentary ONLY without watching the film proper first is half a credit and MST3K is full credit without having to watch the film riff-free, then there's a logic behind that. With the Riffs, you have the jokes, but you are still engaged in the plot of the film. It's not much different than watching a bad film with friends and joking. With a commentary, most of the time the soundtrack is lowered and it is conversational with the participants. They are the focus, and not the film. I'm just of the opinion a movie challenge is about watching movies. Commentary is a bonus, not a substitute for watching movies. A lot of times people rent movies so they don't have the option of waiting until the month is over to watch the commentary after they've seen the film. That's why you get a full credit if you go ahead and watch the commentary. If it has a second commentary, it's not banned. It's just a slight ding. If you are just watching the commentary because you have already watched the film recently, or the film is so bad that is the only way you can get through it, then I'd suggest going on to another film or go ahead and watch it and take the half point ding.


Originally Posted by shadokitty
So then, a 4 pack of movies I plan to get that includes Hang Em High could count as well, even though that was not a spaghetti western.
Yep. Safe.
Old 03-05-11, 03:34 AM
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Re: Second Annual Drive-In/Exploitation/B-Movie Challenge March 31-April 30 2011

Originally Posted by caligulathegod
They are counted the same way. Commentary gets full credit in addition to the film proper. It's not until you get to a second and beyond commentary you get less credit (a 3rd or more viewing). I'd even argue that if you watched a film, then watched Joel and the Bots do a riff for MST3K on the film, then watched Cinematic Titanic riff on it, for a third viewing, it's no longer about the film and more about the jokes. When it gets to third or 4th viewings, then well, like I was told as a kid, more than 2 shakes and you're playing with it.
And yet, with the rules as they are, they'd get credit for 3 films for watching the film and two riffs, where they wouldn't with a film and two commentaries.
Originally Posted by caligulathegod
If you are talking about how watching a commentary ONLY without watching the film proper first is half a credit and MST3K is full credit without having to watch the film riff-free, then there's a logic behind that. With the Riffs, you have the jokes, but you are still engaged in the plot of the film. It's not much different than watching a bad film with friends and joking. With a commentary, most of the time the soundtrack is lowered and it is conversational with the participants. They are the focus, and not the film.
Yes, I meant you should have to watch the film riff-free first to get full credit for watching the riffed version, to be consistent with the rule on commentaries. I can't remember any commentaries off-hand that took me completely out of the movie. Far too many of them just end up describing what's going on onscreen for large parts of the film anyway.
Originally Posted by caligulathegod
I'm just of the opinion a movie challenge is about watching movies. Commentary is a bonus, not a substitute for watching movies.
Yet you have no problem with people using riffed (and heavily edited, in the case of most MST3K versions) films as "a substitute for watching movies."
Originally Posted by caligulathegod
A lot of times people rent movies so they don't have the option of waiting until the month is over to watch the commentary after they've seen the film. That's why you get a full credit if you go ahead and watch the commentary. If it has a second commentary, it's not banned. It's just a slight ding. If you are just watching the commentary because you have already watched the film recently, or the film is so bad that is the only way you can get through it, then I'd suggest going on to another film or go ahead and watch it and take the half point ding.
And some people will choose to watch an MST3K episode because they think "the film is so bad that is the only way [they] can get through it."
Old 03-05-11, 03:41 AM
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Re: Second Annual Drive-In/Exploitation/B-Movie Challenge March 31-April 30 2011

Originally Posted by caligulathegod
Pretty much any western, really. Maybe John Ford "A pictures" should be avoided, but Westerns are usually B films. Spaghetti ones are special enough to make the checklist as they are especially exploitative.
Nice. So maybe this is when I watch The Stalking Moon etc. and for the historical challenge I can concentrate more on war films.
Old 03-05-11, 04:46 AM
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Re: Second Annual Drive-In/Exploitation/B-Movie Challenge March 31-April 30 2011

Originally Posted by Dimension X
And yet, with the rules as they are, they'd get credit for 3 films for watching the film and two riffs, where they wouldn't with a film and two commentaries.

Yes, I meant you should have to watch the film riff-free first to get full credit for watching the riffed version, to be consistent with the rule on commentaries. I can't remember any commentaries off-hand that took me completely out of the movie. Far too many of them just end up describing what's going on onscreen for large parts of the film anyway.

Yet you have no problem with people using riffed (and heavily edited, in the case of most MST3K versions) films as "a substitute for watching movies."

And some people will choose to watch an MST3K episode because they think "the film is so bad that is the only way [they] can get through it."
Maybe I'll have to make it less ambiguous. I don't think I said you get credit for 2 riffed versions. You can watch the film straight for a credit, then with a commentary for a full credit, then a second commentary for a half credit. It honestly never occurred to me that a person would watch a film straight and then with Riffing. I always took that as an either/or. To be consistent, though, I would interpret the rule as watching a movie straight gets a credit, then watching it riffed gets a credit, then watching a second riff gets a half credit, just like the regular commentary (as I was saying, at this point its no longer about the movie and more about the jokes, so it doesn't deserve a full credit). Theoretically, someone could watch a film straight for a credit, then watch a commentary or a riff for a credit, and a third viewing of either a riff or commentary for half a credit. Whatever configuration, it must include one straight viewing and the third viewing is half a credit no matter what permutation it is.

Now, as far as no straight viewing and just commentary or riff: Commentary only gets half a credit. Riff gets a full credit. Two commentaries (with no straight viewing) gets half a credit each. Two riffs gets 1-1/2 credits because second riff is about the jokes and no longer the movie. Why does the riff get special treatment? Part of the impetus of this challenge is a celebration of bad movies. The riffs are just a meta version of this. Even edited, with the host segments they still equal out to a feature. Commentaries are a different dynamic. It is a bonus feature centered around the making of the film or the experiences of those involved. Most of the time they turn the volume down unless they want to draw your attention to something. Usually, they are just wankfests about how great it was to work with so and so. Even the best commentaries that illuminate the behind the scenes of the filmmaking process are still adjunct to the film itself. If it doesn't take you out of the story and into the film as a medium, then the commentary is not doing its job. If it is one of those crappy commentaries that just describe the action then it doesn't deserve any special status. That basically equivalent to watching a movie, then watching it again with the closed captioning on.

That said, commentaries are not banned. You can watch as many as you want. It's a movie watching challenge, not a commentary watching challenge. You aren't being punished for watching commentaries. You are being incentivised to watch movies. Ergo, watching a movie gets you a full credit. You only get a full credit for a commentary if you watch the movie proper (incentive to watch movie). Watching the movie with Riffing, you are essentially watching the movie, but with jokes-like most people would be doing if watching with friends anyway. Second riffing borders on abuse of the "you may only watch and list a movie once" rule.
Old 03-05-11, 04:52 AM
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Re: Second Annual Drive-In/Exploitation/B-Movie Challenge March 31-April 30 2011

Originally Posted by caligulathegod
Watching the movie with Riffing, you are essentially watching the movie, but with jokes-like most people would be doing if watching with friends anyway.
My wife and friends might tell you that watching a movie with a commentary track is like watching it with me, as I have a bad habit of chiming in with trivia throughout a movie when I'm familiar with it.
Old 03-05-11, 04:54 AM
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Re: Second Annual Drive-In/Exploitation/B-Movie Challenge March 31-April 30 2011

Originally Posted by davidh777
Nice. So maybe this is when I watch The Stalking Moon etc. and for the historical challenge I can concentrate more on war films.
Yeah, that's really kind of the intention with the Historical challenge, You can watch all War movies, or all westerns, or whatever. If you get burned out, you can always break it up with another genre, but there's nothing preventing anyone from sticking to one genre. With this challenge, you can watch all spaghetti western, all kung fu, all pornography, all blaxploitation, or mix and match. As much as I love the other challenges, I think this one is my favorite whether I was running it or not. It covers all my interests and obsessions and it's always fresh.

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