Re: 2010 TV on DVD Challenge Discussion Thread
 

This may have been true 5-10+ years ago, but with the advent/popularity of DVR and boom of TV on DVD, I would say that TV on DVD/DVR is more of a "natural" viewing experience than watching a show with commercials. I think the only TV I have watched in the past 6 years with commercials is Lost and and college football.

Obviously, I may be on more of the extreme end of the spectrum, but I just think commercials are really much less a part of the viewing experience anymore. I can barely stand to watch something live anymore, I have to mute it/pause it and go do something else for a couple of minutes.

My comment above didn't really have anything to do with the challenge, but just a thought on viewing habits now.

As for the challenge, I'm assuming you are going to be the coordinator of this challenge? If so, this is your challenge, and you can do what you think is best. Some people will agree, some will disagree. Personally, as I have stated before, I think a TV challenge is a bit too generic for my tastes, but there seems to be a decent amount of interest for it. Just do what you want this year and have a "suggestions/comments" thread after the challenge is over and you can implement changes next year as necessary. Obviously you've put a lot of thought into it, so you aren't just randomly determining rules/guidelines. Just make sure commentaries count! ;)

Re: 2010 TV on DVD Challenge Discussion Thread
 

As a matter of personal taste, I'm with you, though I don't have a DVR. To be honest, aside from a few of USA's original series and Reds games, I'd be content not to even watch much contemporary TV. I personally favor the DVD format, not just for the absence of the clutter already mentioned, but because I like having the level of control that goes with the format. I like being able to decide for myself when to start watching, when to pause (a must for a Crohnie like me!) and whether to have marathon viewings of a full season over two days. I like commentary tracks, I like outtakes, behind-the-scenes material and all the other bells and whistles of DVD.

Yeah, Trevor somehow conned me into this. I appreciate the early support I've received, and I definitely plan to re-assess the nature of this challenge in February, once we have a clearer idea of what worked, what didn't, etc.

As for commentaries, of course they're in! I haven't changed my mind about this challenge being about celebrating the role that the DVD format has had on the medium, and commentary tracks are clearly a part of that. Counting is up to each individual participant since we're not going to rank view counts; you're welcome to list DVD bonus material you watch as well, a la the Criterion Challenge.

So far as I'm concerned, if it's on a DVD release of a TV show and you want to watch it, it goes on your list. You can combine each such feature until you have 90 minutes of content for an entry, you can count each item individually; whatever makes you happy. I personally am electing to adhere to the standard conversion formula, but that's for the sake of uniformity. Which is really weird, because I was voted "most individual" by my senior class in high school.

Re: 2010 TV on DVD Challenge Discussion Thread
 

Now that the Horror challenge is over I've caught up on this thread and debate. The arguments on whether or not to include "live" TV content are interesting. As I read I find myself swinging back and forth on the issue as there are many compelling reasons for each side. That said, I voted to allow *only* DVD content. Here's why:

The board is "DVD Talk"
The Challenge is called "2010 TV on DVD Challenge"

These 2 simple facts tell me the focus *should* be with what's had commercial releases on DVD. *Not* what's on the air, your DVR, VCR, or other recording device including copies of TV you've burned yourself *unless* that content has been released commercially on DVD at some point. Yes, the forum has a few threads about current TV product but it's a minority of the discussions which favor DVD content and debate.

To play Devil's Advocate a bit, the film challenges allow and seem to encourage you to watch a movie on TV, the theatre, or by streaming if it fits the theme so why *not* include "live" TV? Again it goes back to the name of the board and challenge. Even though those exceptions are in place I've always felt the challenges true intentions are to motivate you to enjoy and/or expand your collection.

I look at the challenges as a way to force yourself to be less passive about what you are currently watching. TV is the *king* of passivity. It's just too easy to turn it on and leave it on without giving it much thought which seems to be the antithesis of this challenge.

Now, you must understand that I've almost completely eschewed watching "live" TV. I'll only sample new shows a time or two. If I find them to my liking I purchase them on DVD rather than watch "live". My reasons are pretty much the same as those already mentioned - watch what I want when I want with no commercial interruptions, banners or bugs. Because of that, disallowing live TV presents little to no burden on my part.

If MinLShaw wishes to put a line in a list challenge to "watch a program as it airs" then I feel that should be the only exception.

Just my humble $.02 worth...

When it's all said and done, I'm good with what ever is decided. Mine will be DVD only regardless of the final outcome. :)

Re: 2010 TV on DVD Challenge Discussion Thread
 

I completely agree with this. I'm fine with OTA content for other challenges but for this one it just seems lazy.

Re: 2010 TV on DVD Challenge Discussion Thread
 

Again, I'm the one who named it that. Somewhere in the thread you'll find Trevor's remarks about being upset with me over adding the "on DVD" to his challenge idea. I freely admit I phrased it that way hoping to frame the challenge as DVD-centric.

I'm wary that this will quickly devolve into a "What's on your TV?" challenge. If that's what happens, then we'll either revise the nature of the challenge for January 2012 or we'll let this one die after it's over. Inaugural challenges are always difficult because everyone has different ideas of what the challenge could or should be, with nothing to point to about how it has been.

I hadn't planned on having a checklist, but it's something I can work on if others are interested. I figured that if a participant wants to spend the month going through a "Complete Series" DVD box set, that would pretty much preclude the chance of that person getting to much variety for the purpose of a checklist and yet watching that box set seems like the pinnacle of what the challenge should encourage that person to do. Movies are much easier to work with for a challenge checklist than an episodic TV series.

Mine, too, I suspect. Especially since I'm hoping to snag Psych season four on DVD from either Amazon or Target on Black Friday for $12.99 like I've done the last few years with the previous seasons, and I still haven't gotten into the ThunderCats DVDs I won from the Animation Challenge.

As a participant, I agree with your position. As host, I'm forced to acknowledge the opposing position and its legitimate claim. Like I said, I'm hopeful that this will all work out in a way that everyone enjoys it and gets something positive from it. I thank everyone who has chimed in so far for your contributions to the discussion, and for your encouragement and patience.

Re: 2010 TV on DVD Challenge Discussion Thread
 

Great news: Rich (GoldenWheels) has informed me that we can look forward to as many as five generously donated prizes from Hamilton Books! Since we're not making much of an effort with counting or with a checklist for this challenge, the prizes will likely be awarded similar to how Chad worked the trivia questions in the Horror Challenge. I'll scour yon Interwebs for trivia and randomly select a winner from the correct respondents. I hope we'll have some fun with that.

In the meantime, has anyone got any thoughts about whether they'd like to have a checklist? I know a lot of us are looking forward to gorging on marathon runs of whole seasons and series and aren't really interested in jumping from an episode from this show to an episode of that, but if anyone is so inclined and would like to work from a checklist I'm happy to try to put together something. Let me know.

Re: 2010 TV on DVD Challenge Discussion Thread
 

Personally, I don't mind this being as restrictive as you want (i.e. keep it to TV on DVD, even though I've requested a VHS allowance), but this is one time I'd rather not have a checklist. I may have enough material on VHS that I've taped over the decades to fill most checklist requirements, but I probably don't and I'm not looking to rent or buy stuff just for this challenge. The purpose of my participation in this is to have an incentive to watch the things I've already amassed on DVD, mostly Japanese TV series, animated and live-action, which I have more than enough of to keep me busy for the month.

Re: 2010 TV on DVD Challenge Discussion Thread
 

I'd say more generic story ideas, commonly found in a TV series:
New character introduced (to boost ratings but audience doesn't like character, so show abandons them)
Original cast member replaced with new actor/actress
Holiday episode
Birth in the family
Character disappears and is never explained or noticed in story (Family Matters)

Re: 2010 TV on DVD Challenge Discussion Thread
 

These would be mostly 70's Action shows:

"Russian Defector" episode
"Star has to land the plane" episode
"Star's evil twin shows up" episode

Re: 2010 TV on DVD Challenge Discussion Thread
 

Don't forget "a very special episode"

Re: 2010 TV on DVD Challenge Discussion Thread
 

I figured that was the majority sentiment, and one I personally share, but I know there are some who like having a checklist for these challenges. If there is to be one, it probably will not factor into any prize distribution so participants will only have to decide how committed to checklists they are.

With character disappearances, how would you suggest determining eligibility? For instance, the debut of that character, or his or her last appearance? I would add Death of Principle Character, because those were almost always major episodes.

Also, coming directly after the Holiday Challenge, I think if we were to include a "holiday episode" it would exclude anything eligible for the Horror or Holiday Challenges for the sake of variety. Find a St. Patrick's Day episode of The Drew Carey Show and you're in, though. Fair enough?

I'd not given thought to a genre/era specific sub-checklist, but I suppose if that's what you guys want I can try to format something along those lines.

Thanks for the early feedback, you three; keep it comin'!

Re: 2010 TV on DVD Challenge Discussion Thread
 

Here are some suggestions for a TV on DVD checklist. The idea is to design a challenge that fits your own collection.


1. Watch at least 10 discs in their entirety, no matter how many eps. are on them, but each must be from a different series.

2. Watch at least one series (12 eps. or more) in its entirety.

3. Watch at least two eps. from a foreign television show.
If you have eps. from multiple foreign countries, watch at least 2 from each country you have.

4. If you have mostly foreign TV shows, watch 10-15 eps. from American TV.

5. If you have series that date back to these decades, watch at least two eps. from each:
1950s
1960s
1970s
1980s
1990s

6. Watch something from the 1940s. Watch at least one Kinescope (film made of a live TV show by filming off a monitor).

7. Watch at least one ep. from each of the following genres, if you have them:
Animated
Sci-fi
Western
Primetime soap
Horror/supernatural
Sitcom
Spy/adventure
Police/Crime
Documentary
HBO or Showtime series
(Feel free to add or substitute other genres.)

8. Watch eps. from at least one foreign series that’s been dubbed into English that has run on American television:
E.g., Astro Boy, Ultraman, Pokemon, etc.

9. Watch a Saturday Morning Children’s show on DVD

10. Watch a U.S. TV series that had a foreign star:
E.g., Martial Law, The Equalizer. There must be tons of others.

11. Watch two eps. from a b&w series (not colorized). Watch at least one colorized ep. from a b&w series

12. Watch at least one TV movie from the 1970s.

*********************************************************

Okay, what follows is a whole other category of checklist items and I got a little creative here. Some of these may seem impractical, but I thought it might open the viewing to relevant titles that aren't TV shows. If there's a way to consolidate these into two or three items on the checklist, that would probably be preferable.

Movies spun off from TV shows

Watch a movie that retains the TV show’s original cast:
E.g., Star Trek: The Motion Picture (and its sequels), Star Trek: TNG, Mighty Morphin Power Rangers, the McHale’s Navy movies, the Munster movies (anything more recent?)

Watch a movie based on a TV show that has an all-new cast:
E.g., The Addams Family, Bewitched, Beverly Hillbillies, Car 54 Where Are You?, The Fugitive, Maverick, Mission: Impossible, etc.

Watch at least one movie based on a TV series that features cameos from the original cast:
E.g., Starsky & Hutch, Brady Bunch, Star Trek (2009) (any others?)

Find a series that has spun off movies with both the original cast and with a new cast and watch at least one of the movies:
E.g. Dragnet, Get Smart, McHale's Navy, Star Trek (can't think of any others although there must be quite a few)

Watch a live-action movie based on an animated series:
E.g., Transformers, Speed Racer, Garfield, Dragonball Evolution (any others?)

Watch an animated movie spun off from an animated TV series:
Transformers: The Movie, Batman: Mask of the Phantasm (there must be quite a few others).

Watch a movie that was made into a popular TV series (at least 3 seasons):
E.g., Naked City, M*A*S*H, Fame, Peyton Place, The Farmer’s Daughter, The Paper Chase, Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea, Stargate

Watch a movie that was made into a flop series (one season or less)
E.g., Casablanca, Mr. Deeds Goes to Town, Mr. Smith Goes To Washington, Northwest Passage, The Third Man, Mr. Roberts (there must be more recent ones than these)

Pick a movie to watch featuring an appearance by any one of the following popular TV hosts:
Jay Leno, David Letterman, Mike Wallace, Johnny Carson, Dick Cavett, Jack Paar, Conan, Jimmy Kimmel, Oprah, Phil Donahue, Jerry Springer, Steve Allen, Howard Stern. (Not too many come to mind, other than PRIVATE PARTS and the movies Oprah has acted in, but there's gotta be quite a few.)

Pick a movie to feature prominent TV news broadcasters of the day
E.g. The Day the Earth Stood Still (1951), The American President (1995)
(there must be dozens more)

Watch a movie spun off from a nonfiction show:
E.g., Ringmaster, Jackass (any others?)

Watch a movie about television:
E.g., A Face in the Crowd, Network, Broadcast News, The Truman Show


So, whaddaya think? Are any of these practical?

Thanks.

Re: 2010 TV on DVD Challenge Discussion Thread
 

I think you have some cool ideas, but I'm not crazy about including movies in a TV challenge, even if they are TV-related.

Re: 2010 TV on DVD Challenge Discussion Thread
 

Looks good, but I'm leaning towards concuring that this Challenge isn't very checklist friendly. And this from "the checklist guy"...

I don't know, not sure why, but it just seems like checklists work better with films in a broad genre Challenge.

Re: 2010 TV on DVD Challenge Discussion Thread
 

Since the "Horror Movie DVD Challenge" includes TV shows, can we include movies in the "TV on DVD challenge"? What about documentaries?

Re: 2010 TV on DVD Challenge Discussion Thread
 

Yes. I think. Maybe it has to be made-for-TV programming. At least those films and docs would count.

I think it's "official" that's it's a TV Challenge, not a TV on DVD Challenge.

Anything on TV counts, but obviously don't count anything that you would have watched anyway and try to create a theme/challenge for yourself.

Re: 2010 TV on DVD Challenge Discussion Thread
 

The terms we've mostly agreed upon are that movies are in as long as they fit the following criteria:

1) The movie is an extension of a TV series (i.e., Batman: Mask of the Phantasm is part of Batman: The Animated Series; Batman: Gotham Knight is not so it would not qualify)

2) The movie was made for television (i.e., those Lifetime movies that your wife owns and you keep finding a reason not to watch with her)

3) I forget the other reason a movie would be eligible, but it seems like someone had made a good argument for something else. I'll have to look.

Anyway, looking at the checklist proposals (many of which I find interesting, by the way), I have to ask: are participants wanting to hop around from series to series to find episodes to count for a checklist, or is the consensus more that participants want to just kind of gorge on whole seasons of shows? It doesn't make a difference for the challenge itself, but it does affect how specific a checklist can get while still allowing participants the chance to reasonably complete it. I might put together something really generic and simple for this first go round and we'll see what feedback we get from participants who take a stab at it. I personally won't be trying to complete a checklist; I've got my eye on a few seasons of some shows I want to just bury myself under for January and I don't want to have to care about when they were made or who created 'em, etc.

Re: 2010 TV on DVD Challenge Discussion Thread
 

Oh, I forgot to address documentaries. Yes, they're in so long as they had a TV broadcast. With Fox Movie Channel airing a lot of those 5 minute featurettes off DVDs this gets really murky, but generally I'd say if it was something from A&E/The History Channel/National Geographic/Discovery, etc. there's not an issue. This would be a great time to finally sit down with one of Ken Burns's massive documentary series, for instance. Netflix's Watch Instantly library has quite a lot of this kind of content, so that's something to consider.

Also, even though we're going to make the allowance for other formats, we're still going with "TV on DVD Challenge" for two reasons. Firstly, this is still "DVD Talk" and if we're going to operate in the DVD section it seems only fair that the challenge's emphasis should be on the format. Secondly, "TV Challenge" as a title just sounds generic.

Re: 2010 TV on DVD Challenge Discussion Thread
 

1st Annual Made-for-TV Challenge?

Re: 2010 TV on DVD Challenge Discussion Thread
 

Nah. "Made for TV" has traditionally been code for "Devoid of Artistic Merit." ;)

Re: 2010 TV on DVD Challenge Discussion Thread
 

So are the 6 Star Wars movies allowed since the Clone Wars is based on them?

I would just like consistency (and proper naming) for these things.

If we're allowing movies in this challenge based on the above criteria, we should have the same (but reverse) for the "Horror 'Movie' Challenge". So if a horror tv show was based from a horror movie, then said tv show can be accepted in the horror "movie" challenge. Again, I just want consistency (and proper naming).

Re: 2010 TV on DVD Challenge Discussion Thread
 

The logic of allowing them is consistent with allowing M*A*S*H, so I suppose so. I would strongly urge participants to at least actually watch the Clone Wars series if they're going to be that unimaginative about this.

Well, the truth of the matter is that these challenges all kind of grew up individually and are shaped by their respective hosts and participants. There's no uniform template aside from trying to organize a month long viewing challenge built around a specific theme. And, of course, participants and potential participants lawyering these things to death with nitpicking questions.

Then talk to Chad, our resident Horror Challenge host because that's his challenge and I don't have a thing to do with it. Though, I don't understand the concern since TV content was allowed for the Horror Challenge this year anyway.

The bigger issue here is: These are not under any obligation to adhere to the same rules as one another. Each challenge should be free to evolve to best suit the nature of the challenge and the desires of its participants. I'm not sure any of these remarks actively help achieve that.

Re: 2010 TV on DVD Challenge Discussion Thread
 

Checklist 1.0

Watch a TV episode/season/series from each of the following decades:
---1950s
---1960s
---1970s
---1980s
---1990s
---2000s
---2010s

Watch a TV episode/season/series from each of the following genres:
---Sitcom (family or work place)
---Drama (can include sub-genres such as crime dramas, soaps, sci-fi, etc.)
---Late night
---Sketch comedy

Mini-series/Movies
---Watch a mini-series
---Watch a made-for-TV movie
---Watch a movie based upon a television series or a movie upon which a television series was based

I deliberately omitted from the checklist things like animation or sci-fi/fantasy, because those qualify for other challenges and I thought it prudent to emphasize the elements of traditional TV that make this challenge unique. Any suggestions/requests/questions? We've still got a full two weeks before the challenge starts, but I'd like to have this pinned down and since I'm actually not likely to attempt the checklist anyway, I'm relying entirely on feedback to hone it.

Made you look
 

If this really bothers you, you could always do like I did for the Horror Challenge and change the title on your list post to include Movies and TV. Take a look at the top right of this post (and this one) to see what I mean.

Re: 2010 TV on DVD Challenge Discussion Thread
 

I think it would be nice to add some kind of item regarding foreign TV shows, as I suggested in an earlier post.

Also, will there be any format restrictions like we discussed earlier? Only on DVD? Only on DVD or VHS? Only on DVD or Hulu.com or whatever? Any format at all? I just like to know the rules as precisely as possible in advance, so I can plan accordingly.