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Old 03-25-10, 04:07 AM   #1
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What movies would you have bought if they were on DVD instead of DVD-R?

I'm happy for those who can embrace official DVD-R releases but I can't bring myself to pay $10 to $20 for a burned disc. Heck, it's sometimes difficult to pay that for a pressed DVD anymore.
I'm curious to know if there are others out there who had to skip getting a movie they would have normally bought without hesitation if it was released on DVD instead of DVD-R.
For me there was two:
1. Doc Savage
2. The Brass Bottle
I think I read somewhere they're making a new Doc movie, so I'm hoping a DVD release of the original will still happen.
To give equal time, I tried to think if there were any movies that i would buy on DVD-R if that was the only way to see/get them. I came up with three:
1. Toomorrow, a sci-fi musical with Olivia Newton-John
2. Roger Corman's unreleased Fantastic Four movie
3. London after Midnight, a long lost silent film featuring Lon Chaney Sr.
The reason I'd be willing to buy those on DVD-R is simple, I really, really want to see those rare/lost films.
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Old 03-25-10, 04:22 AM   #2
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Re: What movies would you have bought if they were on DVD instead of DVD-R?

Urgh! A Music War (they were too lazy to even chapter the songs on this, unlike the bootleg I have!)
Under The Rainbow
I Know My First Name Is Steven (possibly the most disturbing thing I've ever seen, yet I want to have a copy of it)
Angus (I KNOW this would have sold decently as a standard release!)
Airborne (well, at least if it showed up at Big Lots for 3 bucks, which I'm guessing is what caused the move to DVD-R, AKA Legal Bootleg, in the first place.)
Cold Turkey

Legal DVD-Rs should only be used for EXTREMELY old and obscure stuff that is most likely going to sell only a handful of copies. Warner Archives started out with stuff like old silent movies, but there's no excuse for going that route for 80s and 90s stuff. With competition from Video On Demand and legal and illegal downloads, you'd think they'd be trying to make packaged media MORE attractive rather than less.

The problem with the way some studios have been thinking lately is that they don't want to release anything that doesn't sell a few million copies in its first week. I've been buying DVDs for more than 11 years now and there's hundreds of titles I just haven't gotten around to buying, but that doesn't mean that I don't want them! What's wrong with selling a million copies over 10 years versus one? With so much stuff going out of print lately, I've had to put my priorities on the ones I'm least likely to be able to find later.
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Last edited by Alan Smithee; 03-25-10 at 04:29 AM.
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Old 03-25-10, 04:30 AM   #3
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Re: What movies would you have bought if they were on DVD instead of DVD-R?

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Cold Turkey
I didn't know about that one. I would definitely buy that on DVD.
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Old 03-25-10, 02:18 PM   #4
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Re: What movies would you have bought if they were on DVD instead of DVD-R?

Boulevard Nights
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Old 03-25-10, 02:31 PM   #5
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Re: What movies would you have bought if they were on DVD instead of DVD-R?

I really, really want Blue Collar but I'm not paying $20 for a burned disc or $60 or more for the OOP version.
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Old 03-25-10, 09:14 PM   #6
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Re: What movies would you have bought if they were on DVD instead of DVD-R?

I want El Condor and a few of those 1960's Westerns but I haven't pulled the trigger on them yet.
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Old 03-26-10, 01:20 AM   #7
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Re: What movies would you have bought if they were on DVD instead of DVD-R?

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Originally Posted by Lemmy View Post
Then you do NOT "really, really" want it.
No, actually I do but I guess you would know better than I do though.
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Old 03-26-10, 02:18 AM   #8
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Re: What movies would you have bought if they were on DVD instead of DVD-R?

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Where do you people think "silver" DVDs come from?!? ALL DVDs are "burned" in some way.
Nope, real DVDs are stamped from a master. Same deal as CDs and CD-Rs. (There were a VERY small number of burned laserdiscs too- I have one with a sales pitch for a time-share deal on it.)

I wouldn't mind if they used DVD-Rs just for REALLY obscure things that might only ever sell a hundred copies at best over a few decades, but their using them for mainstream stuff and selling them for MORE than what a real DVD would have cost is just annoying. Again, it's like paying for an album and getting a CD-R instead of a regular CD. On a good player they'll both play the same, but it's still the principle of the thing. Same with buying a book and getting a copy printed on someone's inkjet printer instead of a real printed book.
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Old 03-26-10, 05:15 AM   #9
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Re: What movies would you have bought if they were on DVD instead of DVD-R?

All of Amazon's Nickelodeon Releases.
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Old 03-26-10, 10:59 AM   #10
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Re: What movies would you have bought if they were on DVD instead of DVD-R?

I haven't been following the DVD-R releases too much, but the only one I'd probably buy is "The Maxx". I might still buy it on DVD-R.

However, there's a number of releases I'd rent. I mostly rent DVDs and BDs now, but the DVD-R releases aren't available on either Netflix or Blockbuster. Anyone know of a rental store, national or local, that rents out any of the DVD-Rs?

Also, for anyone with one of these DVD-R releases: Are they CSS-protected? Are any dual-layer?
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Old 03-26-10, 11:01 AM   #11
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Re: What movies would you have bought if they were on DVD instead of DVD-R?

- Angus
- The Life And Adventures Of Santa Claus
- The Incredible Shrinking Woman
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Old 03-26-10, 11:13 AM   #12
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Re: What movies would you have bought if they were on DVD instead of DVD-R?

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Originally Posted by Alan Smithee View Post
Warner Archives started out with stuff like old silent movies, but there's no excuse for going that route for 80s and 90s stuff. The problem with the way some studios have been thinking lately is that they don't want to release anything that doesn't sell a few million copies in its first week. I've been buying DVDs for more than 11 years now and there's hundreds of titles I just haven't gotten around to buying, but that doesn't mean that I don't want them! What's wrong with selling a million copies over 10 years versus one? With so much stuff going out of print lately, I've had to put my priorities on the ones I'm least likely to be able to find later.
Catalogue titles, with rare exceptions, do not sell. B&M stores won't keep them on their shelves forever, Blockbuster doesn't carry them, you won't find them in Redboxes. Netflix will usually buy a handful of any title for those few people who request them, but for the most part, no one wants them. Look at some typical titles at Amazon and see where they rank in terms of overall sales.

I looked at a few from that era. Flash Gordon... similar to Doc Savage in appeal. #2073. The Night Stalker/Night Strangler double feature... similar to Bad Ronald in appeal. #2842. Mean Streets... similar to Blue Collar in appeal #7110. And frankly, there's a lot more movies that won't rank nearly that high that are similar to the older Archive titles.

It costs money to press titles and promote them and keep them in stock. If you decide to cut the prices, you have to make a deal with wholesalers and retailers who already have them in stock. With press on demand, you have virtually no upfront costs other than operating the website and initially mastering the disc (to whatever extent that's done). So you can sell these for whatever price you want and still make a profit.

If Warner thought they'd sell a million copies of Doc Savage, they'd release it. But the fact is that the small vocal fan base on sites like this represents such a tiny fraction of the overall market that losing money to cater to them makes no commercial sense.

Warner Archives did not start out with "old silent titles" exclusively. A number of their early releases were 70s, 80s and 90s movies as well.
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Old 03-26-10, 11:16 AM   #13
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Re: What movies would you have bought if they were on DVD instead of DVD-R?

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Originally Posted by Jay G. View Post

Also, for anyone with one of these DVD-R releases: Are they CSS-protected? Are any dual-layer?
Don't know if they are protected but all the Warner Archives I have are single layer.
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Old 03-26-10, 11:22 AM   #14
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Re: What movies would you have bought if they were on DVD instead of DVD-R?

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It exists; buy it. Or don't. How "badly" DO you want it?!? Sheesh.
Amen. The Warner Archive titles I've bought have been comparable audio and video quality to similar pressed releases of similar vintage from the major studios. They don't look or sound as good as Star Wars or Gone with the Wind, but I wouldn't expect them to.

The only issue I have with them is price. $20 is too much to pay, in my view, for these titles. When they go on sale, as now, I'll pick some up.
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Old 03-26-10, 11:23 AM   #15
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Re: What movies would you have bought if they were on DVD instead of DVD-R?

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I wouldn't care if the entire industry went with recordable discs; they play with the same quality. They are clones, exact duplicates.
Actually, due to the difference in creation, pressed discs will play on every DVD player ever manufactured, while DVD+/-R discs play on a smaller subsection. Even among players that play "burned" discs, there can be differences between the various medias used that can mean some "compatible" players may not play a disc burned with a certain brand media.

And, as has been mentioned before, due to the dye on DVD+/-R discs being heat sensitive, it is thought that DVD+/-R discs are likely to have a shorter lifespan, on average, than pressed DVDs.

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I'd love to hear the Beatles catalog remastered in 5.1 (or 7.1!), but it's not been released that way. Do I skip buying the remasters? Hell, no. That would be stupid. I want it; it's out there; I buy it because I want it.
You do realize that some of the Beatles catalog has been remixed and remastered in 5.1 audio, right?

Also, did you wait for the remasters to buy Beatles music, or did you buy the original CD releases as well? After all, the Beatles were "out there" on CD for decades before the remasters.
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Old 03-26-10, 12:37 PM   #16
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Re: What movies would you have bought if they were on DVD instead of DVD-R?

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It exists; buy it. Or don't. How "badly" DO you want it?!? Sheesh.
These donít have the longevity of pressed discs, itís not unheard of for these discs to freeze up on people and these things arenít even guaranteed to play on the player you have. Itís a risk Iím not willing to take; not for $20. For $5 I would give in.

The other factor is that this movie was already released and went out print. If Iím putting down $20, Iím putting it towards the OOP version. I have been holding out however, either for the bottom of the DVD to drop out when a Blu-ray version is released or when the Blu-ray version is available I will have transitioned by then; or just a flat out re-release on DVD.

Also, this archives version strips away the special features of the original release, that doesnít entice me too much.

Had the movie never been released on DVD and plans never been made to release it ever then I would bite for this. As it stands, I can wait.
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Old 03-26-10, 01:54 PM   #17
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Re: What movies would you have bought if they were on DVD instead of DVD-R?

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And please, Jay, educate me about 5.1 Beatles releases....I was unaware there've been any legit 5.1 releases so far...and I do want them "really, really bad"!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Love_%2...atles_album%29

Quote:
As for the DVD-R playability issue: if people quit buying crap players, they'll be fine. Coby just won't cut the mustard, folks. Gotta buy a half-decent brand, no "Black Friday $20 DVD player" specials. And then you'll NEVER have an issue.
It's not just budget players; it's almost impossible for a player manufacturer to guarantee their player will play all media types.

Here's a review of a Sony DVD recorder:
http://www.videohelp.com/dvdplayers/sony-rdr-gx315/5947
Quote:
I haven't been able to play Ridata and SmartBuy media on this....

...Darn got 50 of the Riteks. The disks will play in the GX315 but, too many poor compression artifacts and skippy play back....
So DVD-R playback issues can affect even large brand name manufacturers.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemmy View Post
...a few VERY VERY VERY early DVD-R's I recorded no longer play, and they were made from VHS home movies. Guess what? I still have the tapes, re-recorded them with current technology, and voila, no problem.
That's all well and good if it's a DVD-R you made yourself (although eventually finding a VCR to playback the original again may be hard). However, if it's a purchased DVD-R, meaning it's the only copy you have, and it no longer plays, your only option is to re-buy the title again.
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Old 03-26-10, 02:00 PM   #18
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Re: What movies would you have bought if they were on DVD instead of DVD-R?

Sorry to express my ignorance, but when did they begin releasing DVD-R movies officially? This is the first I've heard about it. Any links to news stories or anything? Google isn't helping much.
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Old 03-26-10, 02:16 PM   #19
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Re: What movies would you have bought if they were on DVD instead of DVD-R?

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Originally Posted by Silverscreenvid View Post
Catalogue titles, with rare exceptions, do not sell....

I looked at a few from that era. Flash Gordon... similar to Doc Savage in appeal. #2073. The Night Stalker/Night Strangler double feature... similar to Bad Ronald in appeal. #2842. Mean Streets... similar to Blue Collar in appeal #7110. And frankly, there's a lot more movies that won't rank nearly that high that are similar to the older Archive titles.
A few notes:

1) Those Amazon rankings are all relative, meaning that it's hard to say with any certainty whether a film has sold enough copies to justify being pressed.
2) The pressed titles you list have all been out a while. Titles typically sell the best upon initial release, and then slowly drop in sales over time. So their sales rankings were likely much higher when they were initially released.
3) The titles you compare to are odd, in terms of justification against pressing. For example, Flash Gordon had at least two pressed DVD releases, and one Blu-ray release. This would seem to indicate that the "similar in appeal" Doc Savage should have a pressed DVD and Blu-ray release, according to your reasoning. Same thing with The Night Stalker/Stranger title, which had two pressed DVD releases.
4) The rankings of the DVD-Rs are far lower than the pressed DVD titles. For example, The Night Stalker/Stranger is ranked #4,234 right now, but Bad Ronald is ranked #26,857, almost 6 times lower. Doc Savage is #13,866, again about 6 times lower than Flash Gordon. So the pressed titles are performing a lot better than their DVD-R counterparts, despite being out longer (and thus already have sold a lot, lowering demand).

http://www.amazon.com/Night-Stalker-...p/B00026L7OU/r
http://www.amazon.com/Bad-Ronald-Sco...dp/B002XDR5LE/

Now, it may be that demand for the WB archive titles is lower than the demand for the pressed DVD titles, but the Amazon sales rankings don't really support this argument in any way.
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Old 03-26-10, 02:17 PM   #20
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Re: What movies would you have bought if they were on DVD instead of DVD-R?

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Sorry to express my ignorance, but when did they begin releasing DVD-R movies officially? This is the first I've heard about it. Any links to news stories or anything? Google isn't helping much.
They've been doing it for about a year now. I think the Warner Archive Collection was the first.
http://notimemom.wordpress.com/2009/...ve-collection/
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Old 03-26-10, 02:26 PM   #21
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Re: What movies would you have bought if they were on DVD instead of DVD-R?

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Originally Posted by RagingBull80 View Post
These donít have the longevity of pressed discs, itís not unheard of for these discs to freeze up on people and these things arenít even guaranteed to play on the player you have. Itís a risk Iím not willing to take; not for $20. For $5 I would give in.
I bought some anime features on DVD-R from a local Japanese video store and they started freezing and breaking up on my best player. I went to another store and found used VHS copies of the same films and bought those. I tend to prefer VHS to DVD-R. In all my years of buying used VHS from these Japanese stores, I only had one case of a tape being damaged and the image unwatchable. Yet I've had several problems with DVD-R. And I don't see any difference in the visual image. In the first case I mentioned, I'm pretty sure the DVD-R's were made from a VHS master.
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Old 03-26-10, 02:35 PM   #22
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Re: What movies would you have bought if they were on DVD instead of DVD-R?

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Originally Posted by Pizza View Post
2. Roger Corman's unreleased Fantastic Four movie
This has been released on an official DVD-R? Where?
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Old 03-26-10, 02:36 PM   #23
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Re: What movies would you have bought if they were on DVD instead of DVD-R?

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Originally Posted by Lemmy View Post
Thanks Jay...already have "Love", but didn't realize it was 5.1, as I've never listened to it on my new system (the old system was just stereo). Looking forward to a new listening.
Just a note that the "Love" CD is stereo only, as are all CDs (although the audio on the CD could also be technically mono). Only the DVD in the CD/DVD releases has 5.1 audio.

Quote:
As for the issues with blank media, the same rule applies here as I stated about budget players: don't buy cheap media, and you should be fine.
Ridata is actually considered a top brand in terms of DVD-R quality:
http://www.meritline.com/ritek-ridat...--p-18395.aspx

So, in the case with the Sony DVD recorder, choosing a name brand player and quality burn media still resulted in playback issues, because they simply weren't compatible.

And talking about "choosing good media" only makes sense when you have a choice. With these pre-burned DVD-Rs, the consumer is at the mercy of whatever Amazon decides to burn it on.

Quote:
It's like the "issues" people seem to have with DVD-18's (Universal Monsters Legacy Collections, etc)...I never have had any of these issues with these discs..
Anectodal evidence. You could've just been lucky. I never had an issue with the few DVD-18s I had (or HD DVD/DVD combo discs). However, that doesn't mean these discs didn't have issues that were separate from what player was being used (I've owned some cheap players). Just because you haven't shot yourself in the head yet doesn't mean you should keep playing Russian Roulette.

Last edited by Jay G.; 03-26-10 at 02:40 PM.
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Old 03-26-10, 02:39 PM   #24
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Re: What movies would you have bought if they were on DVD instead of DVD-R?

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Originally Posted by LosingMyMind View Post
This has been released on an official DVD-R? Where?
Read his post again. The relevant part is quoted below:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pizza View Post
To give equal time, I tried to think if there were any movies that i would buy on DVD-R if that was the only way to see/get them. I came up with three:
1. [Tomorrow], a sci-fi musical with Olivia Newton-John
2. Roger Corman's unreleased Fantastic Four movie
3. London after Midnight, a long lost silent film featuring Lon Chaney Sr.
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Old 03-26-10, 04:04 PM   #25
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Re: What movies would you have bought if they were on DVD instead of DVD-R?

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Originally Posted by LosingMyMind View Post
This has been released on an official DVD-R? Where?
As Jay G. pointed out, if these titles came out on official DVD-R, I would buy them. To the best of my knowledge they haven't at this point. If they came out on DVD or Blu-Ray, all the better.

And I have been voting with my wallet and have passed on many films on DVD-R. The other aspect of burning-on-demand is it will probably dry up the $3-$5 bins since there won't be overstock. I'd miss that aspect of collecting. It's fun to find a movie you wanted for cheap or blind buying a few titles.

Another flick I passed on was "Captain Sinbad."
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