calhoun07

Just as long as IF it's a test market they re-release the movies that sell well on Blu Ray to give me a reason to double dip.

calhoun07

Just finished watching Incredible Shrinking Woman on DVD-R. It is the first time I got a chance to see it since seeing it as a kid in a theater many moons ago (though I found I really remembered quite a bit of the movie..there wasn't much I forgot about.) Fine transfer. I don't see any issues with the transfer at all...nice clean widescreen presentation. There are a few glitches here and there...a flew white dots that come up probably from the original source, but no worse than other catalog titles I've seen on DVD.

So...seeing they did do a decent job with the transfer and all makes me wonder why they didn't just release it on DVD.

Funny movie, too...dated but the message holds up well for a silly comedy. And I found the visual effects were quite interesting and looked good for the most part through the movie.

Pizza

Totally agree.

As for being dated, that's true for many films, such as early Bond films, 60's TV shows and such, and folks still love them.

I've been re-organizing the collection the past day or two and realized many of my horror titles would be considered dated and not worthy to be released on a DVD. Oddly, some of these titles become the most collectable on the secondary market.

calhoun07

Supercar is on DVD.

I am not going to say anything more.

But I am curious...how many copies sold warrants a "pressed" DVD? Because you can do a print run of 5000-10000 for pennies per disc. As I said previously, they could sell them online as limited editions and still appeal to the tiny crowd.

rw2516

Then you have the up front costs of producing all these copies plus the cost of storing them as inventory for how many years it takes to unload. WB won't even put B&W shorts on a planned Porky Pig dvd release because they project it will hurt sales.

Bottom line is, this is a corporation that will do whatever is best for the bottom line. It is a mistake to assume that WB is losing out on profits by going the MOD route as opposed to regular retail pressed dvds.

Every once in a blue moon an economy expierences what is called a bonanza. For ten years there was a dvd bonanza. Players were flying off shelves, couldn't make them fast enough. Everybody upgrading to HD tvs. Studios were busting ass to get as much product out as possible, of all kinds. Stores were expanding their dvd sections to carry as many as possible because everybody wanted dvds. The bonanza is over. Studios who don't have a MOD proram aren't releasing any catalog titles, except some kind of set from Sony every few months. If Paramount and Fox don't start an MOD program we will never see any of the unreleased catalog titles they have unless they license them out to a third party.

calhoun07

I never said they are losing out on profits by going the MOD route.

If they marketed them as "limited edition" or some other term that gets collectors salivating they wouldn't have inventory issues for years to unload. They could sell through the copies faster because there are many fans who say they will NOT buy these DVD-Rs no matter how bad they wanted the movie, but clearly they would have purchased the DVD. Maybe they aren't losing out on profits, but they have also alienated potential customers for a format that has seen it's bonanza days in the past. I think you would want to draw as much attention to the titles you are putting out now that you could and not alienate potential customers.

But the points you make are valid. In light of that, I think the third party idea is the best idea, personally. Too bad they didn't decide to go that route. Thankfully WB went that route with their TV shows. I hope other studios follow suit.

Jon2

Thought I'd pop back in and report on some the titles I ordered from Warner during their 5 for $55 promo.

I've only watched The Mating Game from 1959 and Never Too Late from 1965. I'm pleased enough with the A/V quality of both. I'm hoping that the A/V quality of the other three titles is at least as good and will avoid having issues that have been reported with some MOD titles.

There's clearly no restoration/enhancement, but they're pretty much what I'd expect from a pressed disc, bare bones release anyway. FWIW, I watched both on my Panasonic BR player.

That said, Warner's 5 for $55 promo (or something similar) is probably the only way I'll ever buy any more. I have a list of five other titles I'd like to get, but all things considered, $11 is as much as I'm willing to pay, particularly since there is no guarantee just how long MOD discs will last. I'd hate to try to watch one these in a year or so only find out it won't play.

Of course, if there is some title I want badly enough...

davidh777

I agree there are people who say this, but they might end up changing their tune if there's not a significant market shift

calhoun07

I don't know...if I was in marketing for a studio and my three choices were put the DVDs out and try to market them to the collector market, do burn on demand and hope my potential customers might change their tune, or go with a third party to release the movies, I would think the first and third option seemed more appealing.

Then again, I am not in marketing. I am sure people smarter than us figured out all the numbers behind this already.

rw2516

[QUOTE=calhoun07;10087803 do burn on demand and hope my potential customers might change their tune,

Then again, I am not in marketing. I am sure people smarter than us figured out all the numbers behind this already.[/QUOTE]

The target market(potential customers) of burn on demand are those who want the movie, regardless of format. Again, the burn on demand programs have absolutely nothing to do with technology, formats, resolution, etc. It's all about the movie. Look at it this way, the burn on demand discs are marketed for people who want the movie, not people who want the movie on DVD. Just like people who buy vhs of a movie not on dvd to have the movie.

orangerunner

The more I think about it, from the point of view of Warner, it does make sense to just burn some of these titles on demand rather than press them.

Many of these titles simply don't have enough interest in them to warrant a larger scale run. The advertisement, warehousing and distribution is probably more costly than the product itself.

Even a minimum press run of 1000 copies of some of these titles is too much to have just sitting around. If they felt it was going to save them money or increase sales, they would have done it. The DVD format isn't going to be gaining any more momentum, so why risk it?

I keep thinking of films such as "Body Snatchers" or "Dead Bang" which Warner put out on DVD in the late nineties. Here's a couple of films that were barely released in theatres and have been in the $4.99 bin almost since day one and they still haven't been able to move all of their overstock.

calhoun07

Fine and dandy. So who owns the rights to Susan Slept Here? Any chance we will ever see that at least on burn on demand?

Silverscreenvid

If you'll recall, last year Paramount released a number of barebones second tier titles (including one of my favorites Villa Rides) through Legend Films. They had a street price to begin with of $10 and are about equal in quality to the types of releases we're seeing on the Warner Archive. You know where those titles are now... the bargain bin. And whatever profits were made on the ones that got sold for $5-10 apiece was split between Paramount and Legend.

Jay G.

To be fair though, we don't know how many copies of those titles were sold, or what the profit margins were for each copany. Even with excess product ending up in a bargin bin, it's still possible those titles made more money than the typical DVD-R release does.

g

Top hits like Officer and Gentleman and Naked Gun are in the bin with the legend films.

Pizza

Exactly. I'm sure some titles do lose money, but at some point the studios make their money on a title and then send the overstock to the dump bins. Happens to small and big movies alike.
I don't really understand this attitude that if you're not willing to buy a movie on DVD-R, you don't love movies.

Silverscreenvid

Which should tell you something about the market for catalogue titles nowadays.

At least, these movies sold more copies, at higher prices, to begin with, than the Legend films did.

If a Paramount/Legend title sells at a B&M store for $10, Paramount, Legend, and the retailer split the profit from that title. If Warner sells an Archive title for $20, they keep all the profit (apparently, they've subbed out the processing to people like DD, so there's some cost there but not a lot). You'd have to sell a heck of a lot of copies of Villa Rides at $10 to make it a more profitable title than If Looks Could Kill at $20.

As I noted in the other thread, Warner is still willing to test the waters on pressed DVD releases with the film noir box. If it does well, expect to see some more boxes. If not, expect to see a lot more stuff on the Archive.

Carcosa

I've purchased about 20 titles at this point and so far so good. The $20 price point is too much so I wait for the inevitable sale and then buy accordingly. I'm thrilled to get many of these rare silents, and happy to see some of the multi-disc sets with many of the shorts from the early years. I think the DVD-R format will be here to stay, for better or worse. I suspect the profit margin on direct sales for WB is pretty substantial.

Pizza

Just checked out the latest WB releases and can add "Disaster Films Produced by Irwin Allen (5 Movies)" to my list of movies I would have bought on DVD. The set includes "Cave-In!," "Fire!," "Flood!," "Hanging by a Thread," and "The Night the Bridge Fell Down." The last two films are 2-disc sets.

Jay G.

To be fair, the thread is titled "What movies would you have bought if they were on DVD instead of DVD-R?", not "What movies would've sold very well if they were on DVD instead of DVD-R?" Pizza just mentioned it was a title he would've bought, not one he thought would sell well.

Pizza

I'm a big Irwin Allen fan and would love to own all his stuff on DVD. If I'm only one of ten or less, so be it. I also like Patty Duke, who is a star in one of the features. We can debate all day what deserves to be on DVD and, ultimately, the majority would probably pick recent blockbusters and Disney animated classics. I give you that. I love both but also so much more and have zero interest in DVD-Rs. I don't pretend to be an authority on the business side of things, I just know I won't buy burned-on-demand discs. I have no problem with others buying them or any other preferred format or download. Live and let live.

JJE-187

I think if WB offered these at a $1 shop they would make more money than what they are doing now.

abintra

My issues with them is twofold. The same price issues others have and, another issue which few do, that they are not genuine factory sealed. From what little I know of them, they come unsealed and put together by hand. Basically like new used copies. Short of a very rare select title that I had to have, and I have yet to discover one, that doesn't interest me even if they were inexpensive.

That said, list of titles I would consider for my right price if factory sealed. Probably numerous others if I researched them individually but I don't do that given my disinterest in the type of releases.

Source: http://www.dvdaf.com/search.html?has...s_dvd-r*rgn_us

Angus - Warner Archive Collection (DVD-R) (1995)
Arizona Dream - Warner Archive Collection (DVD-R) (1993)
Blue Collar - Universal Vault Series (DVD-R) (1978)
Bronx Tale, A - Universal Vault Series (DVD-R) (1993) (if anamorphic)
Garbo Talks (DVD-R) (1984)
Gold Diggers: The Secret of Bear Mountain - Universal Vault Series (DVD-R) (1995)
If Looks Could Kill - Warner Archive Collection (DVD-R) (1991)
Inherit the Wind (DVD-R) (1999)
Jeremiah - Season 2
Just the Way You Are - Warner Archive Collection (DVD-R) (1984)
Late for Dinner (DVD-R) (1991)
Made in Heaven - Warner Archive Collection (DVD-R) (1987)
Men Don't Leave - Warner Archive Collection (DVD-R) (1990)
Midwinter's Tale, A - Warner Archive Collection (DVD-R) (1995)
Oxford Blues - Warner Archive Collection (DVD-R) (1984)
Pure Luck - Universal Vault Series (DVD-R) (1991)
Rain People, The - Warner Archive Collection (DVD-R) (1969)
Reckless - Warner Archive Collection (DVD-R) (1984)
Rich in Love (DVD-R) (1993)
Rugrats
See You in the Morning - Warner Archive Collection (DVD-R) (1989)
Shout - Universal Vault Series (DVD-R) (1991)
Surviving Picasso - Warner Archive Collection (DVD-R) (1996)
Wisdom - Warner Archive Collection (DVD-R) (1986)
Wrestling Ernest Hemingway - Warner Archive Collection (DVD-R) (1993)

Silverscreenvid

No they wouldn't. Warner would be splitting the profit with the retailer AND would have to pay for the shipping cost of the discs. They would have to sell 20 times more of these titles to make the same profiit. By keeping the price on these discs high, they maintain a certain price integrity that would be completely lost if they dumped them at dollar stores where they'd be competing with public domain titles.

The Archive is a shrewd marketing move on the part of Warners to take maximum advantage of a very limited demand.

I've bought 19 Archive titles (somehow I managed to botch up one of my orders and buy two of the same title... I sold the second one at a profit), all of them for under $10. I wouldn't pay $20 for an Archive title, but I've got no problem ordering any of them on DVD-R when a title I want is available at a price I'm willing to pay.

Jay G.

Coming unsealed doesn't mean that they're inferior copies. It just means that they're not destined for US retail shelves. Factory sealing is intended to stop theft, not make sure the disc is "factory fresh." As the DVD-R titles are burn-on-demand, it's assured that your disc was not previously-used.

Also, factory-sealed discs are "put together by hand" as well. This is why certain inserts are sometimes missing, or the wrong disc is occasionally included.

Honestly, we don't know either way what would be most profitable for WB or other studios. We don't know how many copies of these titles are sold now, or what the profit margin is. We don't know how many copies would be sold in a dollar bin, or what that profit margin would be. One way of distribution may be more profitable for some titles, while another is better for other titles, but there's no way to actually know.

What is known, however, is that WB and other studios keep expanding their DVD-R catalogs, so they must be happy with the sales they're getting in relation to the upfront costs.