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Old 03-26-10, 06:41 PM   #26
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Re: What movies would you have bought if they were on DVD instead of DVD-R?

I would have snatched up Angus and The Incredible Shrinking Woman without a second thought if they were on standard DVD. I have waited a LONG time for those to come out.

I still haven't picked up Angus on DVD-R but I did order TISW today. Not to thrilled about it, but if that's the only way I can see the movie then I guess I have to. It's my first DVD-R order...I will see how it goes. I still feel this is barely a rise above bootlegs at a convention.
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Old 03-26-10, 08:44 PM   #27
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Re: What movies would you have bought if they were on DVD instead of DVD-R?

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As for the issues with blank media, the same rule applies here as I stated about budget players: don't buy cheap media, and you should be fine. It's like the "issues" people seem to have with DVD-18's (Universal Monsters Legacy Collections, etc)...I never have had any of these issues with these discs, as I learned very early on in my DVD collecting to buy QUALITY components for every step of the way. Your setup is only as good as it's weakest link, you know!
You can go all-out and buy the best of the best and with DVD-/+R you will still occasionally get mixed results. I have a friend with a Denon DVD player who had a problem with a DVD-R disc that played just fine on a Coby $29.95 player.

With DVD-R discs, I've also had people use Taiyo Yuden brand (one of the best) with certain software that will not play on Toshiba brand machines but will play on a Sony!

There's four factors that decide whether a disc will play or not. The DVD player, the authoring software used to make the master, the blank disc and the burner used to make the copy.

If one of the four are not compatible with your player, you can have problems that don't occur with a pressed disc.
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Old 03-26-10, 10:02 PM   #28
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Re: What movies would you have bought if they were on DVD instead of DVD-R?

I don't care about DVD-R, but the price has kept me from getting any Warner Archive releases. If they cut them to $10 each, I'd probably have some by now.

$20 is too much for a movie-only DVD, let alone a DVD-R.
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Old 03-26-10, 11:20 PM   #29
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Re: What movies would you have bought if they were on DVD instead of DVD-R?

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Originally Posted by PatrickMcCart View Post
I don't care about DVD-R, but the price has kept me from getting any Warner Archive releases. If they cut them to $10 each, I'd probably have some by now.

$20 is too much for a movie-only DVD, let alone a DVD-R.

I agree $20 is a bit rich for a bare-bones DVD-R but I guess they pretty much make them on spec. It looks like they come in a case with a proper trap sheet and I assume disc artwork as well.

When you press 50,000 copies they are dirt cheap (per unit) to make and distribute. One at a time can get expensive when you consider having to put together and mail out one single copy each time.
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Old 03-27-10, 12:19 AM   #30
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Re: What movies would you have bought if they were on DVD instead of DVD-R?

FYI: There is a 5 for $55 sale going on now at WB Shop just on these DVD-R's, plus there's free shipping and 2 stack-able $5 coupons, making your final total $45. Details can be found on the first page of the bargains forum.

I finally broke down and bought Urgh! A Music War after avoiding it for so long. I have a great fondness for this title, and its music, which goes all the way back to my youth in the 80's. IMHO, it deserves a 2-disc, Special Edition release on Blu-ray.

There is a very long and winding story behind its history, and the extreme difficulty in getting it released. So, in a way, I'm happy I can buy it at all.
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Old 03-27-10, 06:01 AM   #31
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Re: What movies would you have bought if they were on DVD instead of DVD-R?

Wanna know something REALLY ironic about this that I just remembered? There was an insert from Digital Entertainment Group included with several DVDs, including most of Universal's HD-DVDs, that says "Authentic DVDs- Keep it real. Don't get burned." As I've said before, for an industry that hates bootlegs so much, they're sure making their own legitimate product not look any better, and in some cases worse (there's NO excuse for not properly chaptering something like "URGH- A Music War"- ALL my homemade DVDs are chaptered extensively, many having the maximum 99 chapters).

I'm wondering if these DVD-Rs are even CSS encrypted? I'll have to check out when my copy of "I Know My First Name Is Steven" gets here- I broke down and ordered that but if I had recorded its original airing I wouldn't have bothered.
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Old 03-28-10, 03:06 AM   #32
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Re: What movies would you have bought if they were on DVD instead of DVD-R?

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Now, it may be that demand for the WB archive titles is lower than the demand for the pressed DVD titles, but the Amazon sales rankings don't really support this argument in any way.
The point I was trying to make was that the Warner Archive titles wouldn't sell if they were released as pressed DVDs, just like the overwhelming majority of catalogue titles don't sell now.

If Warner thought Doc Savage would sell, they'd release it as a pressed DVD. But they've got a pretty good idea that the total market for titles like that is very limited.

I have no problems with the quality of the Warner Archive titles I've bought. They've been comparable with other titles of that vintage. I do have a problem with the price, which is why I only buy when they are on sale, like now.
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Old 03-28-10, 12:38 PM   #33
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Re: What movies would you have bought if they were on DVD instead of DVD-R?

I understand that these movies are of a limited appeal. What I don't understand is why can't they produce a limited number of pressed DVDs and put it out with the LIMITED EDITION on the cover. Heck, even number them. Fans would CLAMOR for these titles. And DVDs are cheap to produce. A print run of 10,000 would be cheap to make, and I imagine cheaper than making individual one off discs as orders come in. Granted, there is storage costs for the DVDs until they sell, but there are storage costs for the blank DVD-Rs before they are burned.

I am willing to bet factory made DVDs like that would sell more copies than the DVD-Rs because there are people who are not going to buy them for the simple fact they are burned copies. Warner could strike a deal with Rhino or Shout and have the discs sold through something like "Rhino Handmade" or something to that effect. And probably charge more per disc than they are for the burned media. How could this not be profitable for them? Even for movies like Doc Savage?
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Old 03-28-10, 12:55 PM   #34
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Re: What movies would you have bought if they were on DVD instead of DVD-R?

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The point I was trying to make was that the Warner Archive titles wouldn't sell if they were released as pressed DVDs, just like the overwhelming majority of catalogue titles don't sell now.
Define "don't sell" though. Flash Gordon certainly sold well enough to justify at least two pressed DVD releases, one of which was an SE, as well as a Blu-ray release. So that catalog title seems to have sold just fine, at least in the studio's eyes.

Quote:
If Warner thought Doc Savage would sell, they'd release it as a pressed DVD.
Not necessarily. WB and other studios can only release so many pressed DVD titles per year, due to budgetary and space issues. So let's say that the studio thinks Doc Savage would sell reasonably well on pressed DVD, at least well enough as certain past catalog titles, and well enough to turn a small profit. However, their release schedule is already filled up this year with titles they think will sell better (including double-dips of more popular titles). In terms of Doc Savage, the studio can either:

1) Hold off releasing it for at least another year (where it might get bumped again).
2) Release it on DVD-R only, at least for now.


This is why smaller studios are releasing films/TV shows on pressed DVD that the major studios gave up on, like the Larry Sanders Show. To the smaller studio, the number of DVDs they'll sell of a title, and the profit they'll make, makes much more sense to them than it does to a major studio, where they have bigger fish to fry. However, major studios are reluctant to let others make money off of their properties, even if it's a property they're not doing anything with, they think it looks bad. Also, the smaller studio product will them compete with the major studio's product. So the majors would rather release these titles themselves as on-demand DVD-R than license them to smaller DVD companies to release as pressed discs.
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Old 03-28-10, 04:52 PM   #35
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Re: What movies would you have bought if they were on DVD instead of DVD-R?

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I understand that these movies are of a limited appeal. What I don't understand is why can't they produce a limited number of pressed DVDs and put it out with the LIMITED EDITION on the cover. Heck, even number them. Fans would CLAMOR for these titles. And DVDs are cheap to produce. A print run of 10,000 would be cheap to make, and I imagine cheaper than making individual one off discs as orders come in. Granted, there is storage costs for the DVDs until they sell, but there are storage costs for the blank DVD-Rs before they are burned.
I believe it's the restoration costs, not the production costs. They don't want to spend the money to clean up the source material of these films, neither do they want to release sub-par quality into the retail market. So they offer them direct as made on demand. Months after Warner started the archive program they released the Karloff/Lugosi Collection of semi-obscure titles as pressed dvds thru regular retail. I believe because they had already started or finished the restoration of these films and went ahead and pressed them. Warner is releasing a pressed set of Charlie Chan films in June. I believe the reason these will be pressed is because restoration began before the decision to begin the archive program. Even still they are exclusive to the TCM website rather than regular retail.
For a few years Warner has talked about releasing the Bowery Boys series. If they have been working on restoring these, they will probably be pressed and sold as an exclusive thru TCM, or someone else. If restoration has not begun, they will go to the burn-on-demand program.
Has any catalog title that has been restored to HD ready quality, and released on dvd, been discontinued and offered as dvd-r?
It's not so much these studios have given up on releasing deep catalog on pressed dvd, but rather given up on spending the money to restore deep catalog to the quality of the expectations of the retail DVD market.
Too bad press-on-demand isn't feasable. They might do it.
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Old 03-28-10, 05:29 PM   #36
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Re: What movies would you have bought if they were on DVD instead of DVD-R?

Angus
Doc Savage
If Looks Could Kill
Arizona Dream
Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse
Yogi's First Christmas
The Amazing Captain Nemo
Blue Collar
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Old 03-28-10, 06:33 PM   #37
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Re: What movies would you have bought if they were on DVD instead of DVD-R?

I can't believe that there isn't enough demand for Nickelodeon TV Shows to warrant official releases.
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Old 03-28-10, 06:47 PM   #38
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Re: What movies would you have bought if they were on DVD instead of DVD-R?

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These folks who want a "limited special edition" of any movie offered on DVD-R for $20, but refuse to accept it on DVD-R instead of a "pressed" DVD, would probably shit their pants when they found out the SRP of such a "limited special edition" DVD would be. Try to get about 500 copies of a nice hardcover book bound and printed, even without all the bells and whistles, and compare it to the cost of a Kindle copy.
A few notes:

1) DVDs are not books. The cost for a bulk order of pressed DVDs can be found online on many sites. Here's one sites pricing, where 1000 DVDs with packaging, printing, and shrinkwrap costs $1498, or about $1.50 each:
http://www.cdpressing.com/prices.htm

2) The MSRP of a harcover book does not accurately reflect the cost of printing a book. Hardcovers have a huge markup. For example, here's a link to a breakdown that states that for a $27.95 MSRP book, about $2.83 of that is for the cost of printing it:
http://ireaderreview.com/2009/05/03/...ok-publishing/

This is why publishers overprint books, then sell the remaining stock as remainders at a substantial discount. Authors don't get royalties from remainder sales, so the publisher still makes money on them even though they sell them to stores for $3-4.

Last edited by Jay G.; 03-28-10 at 06:49 PM.
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Old 03-28-10, 08:26 PM   #39
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Re: What movies would you have bought if they were on DVD instead of DVD-R?

just wanted to note that marketing costs, in general, and for anything and for everything are astronomical too. in the case of a limited edition pressing of whatever title, the studio still has to market the title so people know they can buy it. dvdtalk is great, but it aint going to be enough

then theres the shelf space at a retailer, which indirectly costs money too right?
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Old 03-28-10, 09:00 PM   #40
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Re: What movies would you have bought if they were on DVD instead of DVD-R?

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I believe it's the restoration costs, not the production costs. They don't want to spend the money to clean up the source material of these films, neither do they want to release sub-par quality into the retail market. So they offer them direct as made on demand. Months after Warner started the archive program they released the Karloff/Lugosi Collection of semi-obscure titles as pressed dvds thru regular retail. I believe because they had already started or finished the restoration of these films and went ahead and pressed them. Warner is releasing a pressed set of Charlie Chan films in June. I believe the reason these will be pressed is because restoration began before the decision to begin the archive program. Even still they are exclusive to the TCM website rather than regular retail.
I think this all makes sense, but I don't believe the Charlie Chans are TCM-exclusive
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Old 03-29-10, 06:23 PM   #41
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Re: What movies would you have bought if they were on DVD instead of DVD-R?

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I believe it's the restoration costs, not the production costs. They don't want to spend the money to clean up the source material of these films, neither do they want to release sub-par quality into the retail market. ...
So...wait...you're saying these burn on demand DVDs aren't even restored? Because of the two titles I've been following all along waiting for them to come out (Angus and Incredible Shrinking Woman) I read online years ago both movies were restored for DVD.

I imagine other titles in this burn on demand were restored as well.

Perhaps not from original negatives, but still made to look better than their VHS counterparts.

So they did spend the money to make at least some of these movies look good, so I really am wondering about my question now.

Or am I going to get VHS quality transfers on DVD-R with these movies?
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Old 03-29-10, 06:28 PM   #42
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Re: What movies would you have bought if they were on DVD instead of DVD-R?

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I think this all makes sense, but I don't believe the Charlie Chans are TCM-exclusive
Costco had a very nice box set of Chan flicks (I think it contained most of them) for $50. I'm sorry I didn't pick it up when I saw it as I haven't seen it the last few weeks.

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Angus
Doc Savage
If Looks Could Kill
Arizona Dream
Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse
Yogi's First Christmas
The Amazing Captain Nemo
Blue Collar
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I'd buy The Amazing Captain Nemo on DVD.
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Old 03-29-10, 07:32 PM   #43
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Re: What movies would you have bought if they were on DVD instead of DVD-R?

I would totally get Angus on DVD if it were pressed.

Admittedly, I do have purchased DVD-Rs in my collection (namely, the Bret Hart documentary Wrestling With Shadows), and though I'd admittedly prefer to have them as pressed DVDs, that's not what holds me back. My issue is the price that they end up charging. Even on sale, the price they end up charging is too high than I feel is reasonable for a DVD-R.
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Old 03-29-10, 08:16 PM   #44
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Re: What movies would you have bought if they were on DVD instead of DVD-R?

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So...wait...you're saying these burn on demand DVDs aren't even restored? Because of the two titles I've been following all along waiting for them to come out (Angus and Incredible Shrinking Woman) I read online years ago both movies were restored for DVD.

I imagine other titles in this burn on demand were restored as well.

Perhaps not from original negatives, but still made to look better than their VHS counterparts.

So they did spend the money to make at least some of these movies look good, so I really am wondering about my question now.

Or am I going to get VHS quality transfers on DVD-R with these movies?
I don't know about other burn-on-demand deals, but Warner Archive titles are not restored or cleaned up in any fashion.

There's a disclaimer about it (in orange print so they want you to notice it) on the description page for a title, along with a link to preview video quality. Just a straight transfer from whatever video master they have.

As for the video preview, considering it pops up in a business card sized window on a computer monitor, it's really impossible to say what kind of quality you'll get.

BTW, I just ordered five titles thru Warner's 5 for $55 promo, so I guess I'll find out soon enough.

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Old 03-29-10, 10:39 PM   #45
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Re: What movies would you have bought if they were on DVD instead of DVD-R?

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Originally Posted by calhoun07 View Post
I imagine other titles in this burn on demand were restored as well.

Perhaps not from original negatives, but still made to look better than their VHS counterparts.

So they did spend the money to make at least some of these movies look good, so I really am wondering about my question now.

Or am I going to get VHS quality transfers on DVD-R with these movies?
Back in the day, most masters were professional 1" analog reels which, even til this day, have extremely good, broadcast quality picture resolution.

I assume the studios have held onto these masters or at the very least a BetacamSP master.

Both of these tapes were used as master sources that were recorded onto the VHS tapes and should give you a pretty good-looking picture when transferred to DVD if it's at a decent bitrate.
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Old 03-29-10, 11:01 PM   #46
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Re: What movies would you have bought if they were on DVD instead of DVD-R?

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I don't know about other burn-on-demand deals, but Warner Archive titles are not restored or cleaned up in any fashion.
I haven't ordered any Archive titles from before the 1950s so I don't know about the quality of the really old titles, although some of the reviews by DVD Savant and others indicate some of the audiot and video quality on tehm is fairly iffy. At this stage of the game, however, I doubt many additional titles from that era are going to get restored any better than they are now.

The films I've seen, dating from the 1950s through 80s, look about as good as the second tier pressed catalogue titles of that era. There's none that I've had any problems with.
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Old 03-31-10, 06:45 AM   #47
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Re: What movies would you have bought if they were on DVD instead of DVD-R?

We've all double-dipped on DVDs. How would you feel if the DVD-R title(s) you bought was later re-released on DVD? Would you be happy, mad or not care less?
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Old 03-31-10, 07:24 AM   #48
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Re: What movies would you have bought if they were on DVD instead of DVD-R?

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Old 03-31-10, 07:43 PM   #49
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Re: What movies would you have bought if they were on DVD instead of DVD-R?

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We've all double-dipped on DVDs. How would you feel if the DVD-R title(s) you bought was later re-released on DVD? Would you be happy, mad or not care less?
If I think a title is worth it and I get a cleaned up, quality transfer, then I don't have a problem.

Being and ad/marketing guy, a thought struck me that it's possible studios are test marketing titles with DVD-R releases.

But I doubt it.
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Old 04-01-10, 05:15 PM   #50
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Re: What movies would you have bought if they were on DVD instead of DVD-R?

Francis Ford Coppola's "The Rain People".
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