Re: Will our collecting come to an end? [merged]
 

I'd much rather own the Physical Media. I have already the misfortune of purchasing tunes for my Ipod, only to lose them when my Computer crashed. I called their Customer service, but nothing worked. Besides that can you see this scenario happening? You "Purchase" a Movie or TV Series. One evening, you decide you want to watch it. Booting up your Computer, you go online and discover the Title you want is no longer in your Library! You call Customer Service, only to be told they had to delete your copy because a Court determined they didn't legally purchase the rights to that Title, or the Studio that originally decided to sell it changed their minds because some "Politically Correct" Group was Offended by that Title. No Thanks! I'd rather have the Copy IN MY HANDS.

Re: Will our collecting come to an end? [merged]
 

So once one person hunts down an obscure song and shares it online in any way, shape or form—which is more common than some might think—then that track is suddenly no longer obscure, is it? I'll grant you that there's a LOT of music out there that isn't available through the legal channels . . . yet. And there's a LOT of stuff unavailable on those legal channels that IS available on various file-sharing networks. There will always be treasure hunters out there doing the grunt work for the rest of us when iTunes and its kin don't deliver, and that's fine by me. Once physical media are behind us, rights-holders/record companies/movie studios won't be burdened by physical media production and distribution costs—or the demand for them—and will have little reason NOT to release more of their stuff for streaming/downloading.

Incidentally, I googled "Tarney Spencer Band No Time To Lose" and instantly found a few places where I could download MP3s of the song. Granted, none of those places was iTunes :( , but the song is out there for those who just want to hear it. I might even give it a listen later tonight. If it's any good, I'll probably wish it was available on iTunes, so the creators could at least make some money for their efforts. ;)



Well, what other options will they have? DVD, a dead format? Blu-Ray, a format that has already proven unwieldy for old, foreign and obscure films with minor scholarly or cult appeal? I suppose if they don't want to make any money at all on their massive back catalogues, or continue to justify the existence of marketing departments by having something to tease us with, then yeah, they could withhold their niche-y old catalogues from the public. :lol:



This all assumes that they won't be able to stream it, and that the studio that owns it sees some reason to withhold old films with small audiences from the public. That's hardly in their best interest. Streaming will, in time, allow them to make available more product than they ever did on DVD or Blu-Ray, to really unload/upload the obscurities from their vaults.

If you or I are able to sell some random 60's OOP biker movie DVD for several times what we paid for it some day, well, hooray for us. But then, why would we be selling such a disc if it means so much to us and is totally, completely unavailable anywhere else? Unless it's really more about the money than the collecting after all . . .



Yes, I'm sure those jobs will be reinstated soon enough. :lol:



Actually, this is exactly what makes piracy so popular? ;)



This is inevitable, which is why I find the "collectors" so admirable in their resolution to stay the course.



Obviously, this assumes that they'll lose entire collections ("they sky is falling, the sky is falling!"), and that the whole business model of legal, paid streaming/downloading won't be amended in the years ahead to address such issues. And when it is, you're going to look rather sad in a darkened little room with a stack of musty old VHS tapes. :(

Re: Will our collecting come to an end? [merged]
 

The alternative to this fear-mongering scenario is that someday, you'll come home, feel like watching a favourite old movie, switch on your plasma screen, hit a few buttons on the remote, discover that the movie IS still available for you to watch as part of your clutter-free "library" stored on a remote server (wherein there are safeguards—such as back-up servers in other locations around the globe—to guarantee your access to that content in the event of a power failure, terrorist bombing, Religious Right uprising, etc.). Perhaps there will even be some kind of 'delay' feature, similar to PVRs, where you can watch already cached portions of the film with no interuptions, pixellation, stutters, etc., while the rest of the film is streamed in to your set in the background.

I'm most amused how nearly all of the doom 'n gloom scenarios of the collectors here consistently assume that streaming/downloading won't continue to evolve beyond what it is now. :lol:

Re: Will our collecting come to an end? [merged]
 

If they work around that problem then I will be ok with streaming/downloading. But from what Ive seen thus far with things like video games, and movies already available for streaming/downloading its still a problem (caused by coding to prevent piracy). If we can be guaranteed that we can keep/backup everything we buy then that's ok with me. But why would they? This is going to go one of two ways. Way 1: We pay for each individual title that we want. And if that's the case then we will only "own" (aka rent) that title for as long as streaming is around. Do you honestly think 50 years after streaming is dead we'll be able to access those films? Doubt it. Way 2: We will pay for a subscription and just be able to watch what we want from that. Of course you know that there will be different packages so don't expect to get all you want unless you shell out for it. And if there are multiple providers expect to see provider exclusives. But worse of all is no more buyer's ownership. So all in all if I can be guaranteed that everything I'm paying for will be mine forever just like a VHS, DVD, Blu-ray, etc then streaming/downloading wont be so bad. But I cant believe that studios would not love the opportunity to force us to rebuy after each format.
Ohh and never! I love my musty old VHS tapes! :)

Re: Will our collecting come to an end? [merged]
 

Of course it will. But why would you think that it wont evolve past streaming/downloading? What happens when those formats are dead? Still think you'll be able to sit down and watch those titles you payed for 50 years after those formats have come and gone? Or will you have to once again shell out the money for that favourite old movie? That is my major concern. You leave it all up to the studios/media providers. They will be in charge of choosing how long you are allowed to view the format. Unlike physical media that can be enjoyed for as long as the owner want to enjoy it. Thus why I call streaming/downloading long-term-renting rather than buying. I want to know that what I am paying for is mine forever. If I can be assured that when I'm 90 I can sit back and watch something I payed for through streaming/downloading when I was 40 then I'm set, but what is the likelihood of that?

Re: Am I The On'y One Who Is Worried?
 

Is someone going to take your dvds away from you at some point?

Re: Am I The On'y One Who Is Worried?
 

really? what does that have to do with this entire thread? were talking about streaming/downloading. your streamed/downloaded titles are what i'm referring to.

Re: Will our collecting come to an end? [merged]
 

You're still basing your arguments (passionate though they are) on the way things are now. It won't be like this in five years. And it will be different five years after that. Look at the internet 10 years ago versus today. It's a vastly different beast, and that technology will only continue to evolve and mate with other technologies to deliver content to us in a safe, reliable, retrievable manner.



Why wouldn't they? This is one of those debates that will only be answered in the future, when the business models have been worked out more than they are right now. If they create a reliable network, with contractual guarantees that you'll have access to your paid content no matter where you are or what happens in the world, even if that company goes out of business or is bought out, then you may not even need the ability to back everything up. You'll just be re-routed to another server facility to get what you need. No matter what, the market will dictate as much of this as any of the content-owners. Otherwise, the black market becomes the more attractive option, and so many of these companies have already been bitten in the ass by that.



50 years after streaming is dead, you'll be dead, or too feeble to have time to watch thousands of movies while your grandchildren are spoon-feeding you and changing your diapers, so I hardly think it matters.



Other than the "paying for a subscription" part, how is this any different from DVDs! :lol: Regular edition, deluxe edition, emerald edition, digital copy edition, Target edition, Wal-Mart edition. Sounds like we'd simply have to use our best judgment with streaming/downloading to get what's right for us, same as we do now! ;)



They've been forcing us to rebuy and upgrade DVDs for 13 years now! Of course they're going to figure out ways to get us to re-buy access to existing movies. "Unrated Director's Cut!" "Now with exclusive commentary and bonus content!" (not sure how that'll work, but I'm sure they'll figure it out). "Religious Right-Approved Edition!" And so on.

As long as I know, contractually, that I will have unfettered access to whatever I paid for for the rest of my natural life, possibly even through format changes—and could possibly transfer ownership of that access to a descendant or relative or institution some day, I'm in.

I don't have a "core" DVD collection as large as yours, but even at 1500+ it has started feeling like a burden the last couple of years. But it's also largely complete, and I'll keep it for as long as I can, but there is plenty of stuff in it that I'd happily sell off if I could simply have reasonably-priced, permanent access to it on my TV.

In the past year or so, I've mostly been taking advantage low-priced bargain DVDs ($3 Big Lots titles, $5 Wal-Mart and Amazon dumps, etc.) of films I simply wanted to SEE, but wasn't sure I wanted to own (most have ended up resold for a profit on the Canadian Amazon Marketplace, so that's cool; at least I could scratch them off my mental "to see" list). But I'll be damned if seeing all these great old Warner titles (among others) wouldn't have been a lot easier to do online direct to my TV some day, without all the (temporary) clutter of having the discs in the house, and the (modest) time spent listing and reselling them (the ones I don't decide to keep, that is).

I could see "rent-streaming" a movie for maybe $3 (same price I paid for remaindered DVDs at Big Lots). If I like it, I pay a little more to gain some kind of lifetime access to that version, say another $7 to round the "ownership of access" price to $10. Maybe a bit more for "new releases" if I absolutely had to have them as soon as they're released.

Basically I'm with you on one key point: I want to know that what I pay for will be mine in perpetuity, and possibly transferable in the event of my passing (if I have someone to transfer it too at that age), and that only I will have the right to "throw it out" because I feel I've gotten enough mileage out of it. I'm not fond of the notion, which others here have mentioned, of downloading a movie from iTunes and then having to argue with them to give it to me again in the event of a computer dying.

Then again, this is why a "permanent access" streaming model holds so much more potential. You don't have to worry about losing anything, and "your" content is backed up in more than just one locations because the companies providing it will have the money and obligation to do so.

Re: Will our collecting come to an end? [merged]
 

I've never once said it won't evolve past those options. If I did, please show me. I've been arguing FOR evolution throughout my posts on this subject, including evolution on the part of the collectors. I've also been arguing FOR some kind of "permanent access" to streaming content (JUST content) that would, in theory of course, be transferable to new media distribution channels within the same company (iTunes, for example). ;)

Re: Am I The On'y One Who Is Worried?
 

Do you not even read your own thread? I was responding directly to a quote that you yourself made. Are we not talking about collecting and physical media vs streaming media? I was pretty sure that was what we were talking about. Admittedly, you are a little tough to follow at times with your nonsensical the sky is falling ranting.

Re: Will our collecting come to an end? [merged]
 

Thanks kinds beating around the question? It does batter. And fine, if not 50 years than 10, 20, 30, 40 years?


Yes but you can CHOOSE what you want. If you want to buy that expensive deluxe special edition DVD you can. All you have to do is go to the store you don't have to be a member. If I don't belong to a provider that offers that one exclusive title I want what do I do then? Subscribe to that provider as well for one title? What If I only like one show on HBO but to own the seasons on that show I have to pay an extra subscription free? Rather than today where I just to to any store and buy that one show.

How is that forcing us? If you want to watch a VHS you still can? You were never forced to upgrade. If you want to watch a streamed movie that is no longer available because streaming is a dead format what do you do then?

Same here. But I just have a hard time seeing that happening. But who knows? I could be wrong.

But what happens when streaming is a dead format? Will they keep it up and running just so those purchased titles are forever available to the buyers? For all we know streaming/the internet will seam like a silly joke compared to something yet to even be thought up.

Re: Will our collecting come to an end? [merged]
 

As I mentioned in a recent post, I'm completely in agreement with you on this, except the part where you've convinced yourself that it won't happen. Neither of us knows for sure, but as the market for streaming inevitably grows bigger, as it already it, the people will demand some kind of long-term ownership of access. What we want, when we want, end of story. Don't take away my existing movie and force me to pay more for an "upgrade" or I'll get the version I already had off the black market (and I don't mean $200 OOP DVDs!). The studios can dictate a lot of stuff (first availability [which should then be permanent availability, realistically], pricing, multiple "special editions" and "reissues", etc.), but not everything, and surely most people will desire some sort of permanence for their $5, $10, $20 "rental for life" product.

I'm fully aware of the potential for movie studios to gum up the works, but it hasn't always done them any favours up to now. ;)

Incidentally, I'm sure someone will chime in here and bring up the limited-time licences that North American companies sometimes have for foreign films (like Criterion, etc.) and how those could expire and our access would suddenly be denied, but as with everything, such contracts and licences will have to be rewritten for the ages ahead. Just make sure to read the fine print! ;)

Re: Am I The On'y One Who Is Worried?
 

Yea but you have to take into consideration the quote and discussion I was responding to. Not just assume I'm talking about whatever it is you want to think I'm talking about.

Re: Will our collecting come to an end? [merged]
 

I don't know. I don't PAY to belong to iTunes. I PAY THEM for their content. I assume they get a cut. I'd like to think there are other companies that will operate on the same principal, instead of charging membership fees, which seem so . . . passé. I remember when VHS rental stores first popped up in the 80s and they made us pay membership fees. That didn't last long. ;)




As I've said previously, I HOPE that ownership of access to content will be transferable to new media, i.e. whatever comes after streaming. It's not about the delivery method, it's about the content. The delivery method can be whatever is needs to be to get digital files into the hands of users. And what will replace digital files? That's a LONG ways off, folks.

Obviously, I'm speculating, but I don't think it's that much of a stretch, especially when the day will soon come when the majority of us will be getting our content this way (whether we like it or not). Within that majority, I'm sure there will be plenty of people and organizations pushing for rules that protect the consumer, and calling bullshit on the studios and providers when necessary, and considering the global reach of tar and feathers even now, I dare say they MIGHT actually be motivated to keep customers reasonably happy with the threat of the black market growing even BIGGER if they don't. Hell, look at the size of it now!

That said, I would be wary of any kind of pay-for-access plan that wasn't forward-thinking enough to account for technology shifts. Obviously, that wasn't necessary for DVD and Blu because the precious content was right there on the disc, but we still end up with obsolete technology in the long run. But if we're only paying for ACCESS to the content itself, regardless of the delivery system, then I personally believe that such access should factor in the possibility of the delivery system becoming obsolete some day, and porting my access over to whatever replaces it.

But again, this is all just speculation. But it's coming, that much we can't deny. ;)

Re: Will our collecting come to an end? [merged]
 

It is all about minimizing the intermediaries and making the experience as insular and optimal as possible.

When I stream a movie, I am at the mercy of many elements beyond my control: the content, the content provider, my internet connection, etc.

When I buy a movie, I am only at the mercy of my hardware and my hard copy software, over which I have COMPLETE DOMINION.

That said, I will continue to by physical copies, for which I will gladly pay a premium for. I have actually been purchasing more CDs as of late. I collect continue to collect SACDs and DVD-Audio discs, which are far superior than any downloadable MP3.

Re: Am I The On'y One Who Is Worried?
 

Judging by your posts in this thread, I am convinced that you dont even know what you are talking about most of the time.

Re: Am I The On'y One Who Is Worried?
 

m'kay. :violin:

Re: Am I The On'y One Who Is Worried?
 

Clever.

Re: Will our collecting come to an end? [merged]
 

Could not have put it better myself.

Re: Will our collecting come to an end? [merged]
 

Do you have a backup now?

Re: Will our collecting come to an end? [merged]
 

Do you mean to a disc, which some think will be obsolete and nobody manufactures in the near future when streaming and downloading takes over?

Re: Will our collecting come to an end? [merged]
 

I was thinking of an external or internal hard drive so if their computer explodes their data will not be lost, I would feel very uncomfortable without a backup of everything I own.

Re: Will our collecting come to an end? [merged]
 

thats a bit extreme, even for me. lol. anywho... i wouldn't be worried about there being no discs i would be more concerned about itunes changing their format from mpeg4 to something else (perhaps streaming) thus making the downloaded files not compatible with itunes anymore. i only have a few titles from itunes that i got for free with dvds but i do have them backed up to dvd just in-case i need to reinstall them.

Re: Will our collecting come to an end? [merged]
 

Looks like part of the digital bubble is losing some of its air
and what happens when the download growths sputters to a hault like it is right now with music sales:

"techdirt.com/articles/20100108/0331327672.shtml"


Growth In Digital Music Sales Slows

"hypebot.com/hypebot/2010/01/growth-in-digital-music-sales-slows.html"

Im pretty sure that the studio heads will not be putting all their eggs on one basket anymore like they have in the past. I believe this will be a physical and digital world going forward for audio and video distribution. Not just one way or the highway approach as in the past.

(BTW.. this is my first post. I have enjoyed reading for many years!)

Re: Will our collecting come to an end? [merged]
 

Nothing. Everyone continues to illegally get their music like they are now. Lol. Common... CD sales are hurting... Download sales are hurting... Yet everyone I know certainly has the new albums the week they come out. There was once a time when illegally downloading music was more of a tech geek thing. Now-a-days it's become the main way for people to get their music.
Anywho... Streaming (although i feel bad for us in the long run) will be great for the studios. And its a very simple thing to do with music as well. Pay a monthly fee and get all you want. Just log into your account from your portable media device, phone, tv, stereo, car, etc and poof there is all your music, movies, books, whatever the media might be. Sounds great, but the downfall for us is that you are renting and not owning the media. If streaming starts to take off at all you can bet most (if not all) media will go that way. We live in a capitalist world. Its NEVER about what consumers want its about making us think we want what we want. The studios will make steaming look like the god of all formats and for them it will be but for us it will turn to hell in the end. But I could be wrong...