Music Licensing Fees Keeping TV Shows off DVD
#1
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Music Licensing Fees Keeping TV Shows off DVD
Ran across this interesting article from The Wrap on Music Licensing for TV shows that even hints at costs (10 cents a song, per DVD) and the complexity (56 different licensees per episode).
Music Licensing Fees Keeping Shows off DVD
"Thirtysomething" finally on video, but where's "Wonder Years"?
By Daniel Frankel
From the first, string-laden tracks laid down by Stuart Levin and W.G. “Snuffy” Walden, to recorded songs from well-known artists like Ray Charles and Rickie Lee Jones, “thirtysomething” was a series full of music.
But music is also the main reason why the groundbreaking drama by Marshall Herskovitz and Ed Zwick will only, finally, be issued on DVD on Tuesday -- more than two decades after the hit series went off the air.
Licensing all that great music was expensive -- $1 million for the project, according to one knowledgeble person -- and very nearly prohibitively so.
“Both Ed and I tend to be forward-looking people," said Herskovitz in an email to TheWrap. "It was not like this was a thorn in our side – but every six or eight months, we’d say, ‘Hey, wait a minute, why isn’t this out on DVD yet?’ and we’d call our attorney.”
As the studios have rushed to get TV series on DVD, a handful of well-known shows have been held up because licensing their music has been deemed too expensive or time-consuming.
On Oct. 6, for example, Fox will finally release season one of “Ally McBeal." "Cop Rock," the one year Steven Bochco experiment in cop camp, "China Beach" and "Cold Case," have all been delayed for similar reasons. (See sidebar of top shows not out on DVD).
Indeed, virtually all of “Thirtysomething’s” less popular running mates from the fall 1987 broadcast TV schedule, when it premiered, have been out on disc for some time, including CBS’ “Jake and the Fatman” and NBC’s “Crime Story.”
“Not only do you have to clear the rights with the publisher, but you also have to clear the master rights with the labels,” says Garson Foos, co-head of Shout Factory, which is distributing “thirtysomething” for studio MGM. “And in some cases, rights could be split up among three different publishers.”
Indeed, virtually all of “Thirtysomething’s” less popular running mates from the fall 1987 broadcast TV schedule, when it premiered, have been out on disc for some time, including CBS’ “Jake and the Fatman” and NBC’s “Crime Story.”
The studios have been aggressive in recent years in releasing scripted TV shows into the DVD market, since these titles sell well -- even in a mature disc marketplace -- and can command a higher price point and profit margin than theatrical movies.
According to Gord Lacey, founding editor of tvshowsondvd.com, while the studios tend to license music into perpetuity, paying for regions and timelines that, in many cases, they don’t need, smaller companies like Shout license more efficiently, signing deals that span five years and cover only North America, for example.
“That cuts their music-licensing costs by a lot,” he said.
Shout Factory, for example, will sell the first-season set of “thirtysomething” for $59.99 and hopes to move at least 100,000 units in the process.
In explaining the delay for "Ally McBeal," Fox officials noted that they didn’t want to put out the lawyer-themed dramedy, starring Calista Flockhart, without securing rights to all the music first.
“Audiences expected to hear a timeless classic or something completely new each and every week,” read a studio statement.
“We understood the importance from the get-go and have worked hard to bring fans all of the original music.”
Likewise, the DVD releases of music-laden series “The Wonder Years,” from Fox, and Warner Bros' “China Beach” have also been held up, with no release date set for either.
According to Lacey, “The Wonder Years” is “the Holy Grail” of music-heavy shows that haven’t been released on DVD yet.
“You can’t release that show without the music, and there’s so much music on it that has to be licensed.”
Then there’s “thirtysomething.”
Pioneering the way for today’s complex ensemble character dramas, four seasons worth of the show have sat largely dormant in the MGM vault, with only limited release through broadcast syndication and cable TV sales, since it signed off the ABC schedule in 1991.
For their part, Foos and his partners, who previously ran music label Rhino Records, have specialized in getting musically-hindered TV shows, including “Freaks and Geeks” and “My So-Called Life,” into the DVD market.
“Our selling point is that we do all the leg work in getting the music cleared,” he explained. “We knock on the doors of the studios, saying, ‘Let us license your complicated shows that you don’t want to deal with.’”
Foos had his eyes on “Thirtysomething” for years, and was finally able to enter talks with MGM in late 2007 with the help of series producers Zwick and Herskovitz, who had long wanted to get the show out on DVD, too.
Finally getting all the music licensed for the series took from that point in time through the spring of this year.
“It’s an extremely time-consuming process, and you sometimes have to do a little detective work to track (rights-holders) down,” Foos said.
“Garson called me after we had finished putting together the ‘My So-Called Life’ set,” Herskovitz said. “We had discussions over the years with MGM and they had told us it was just too difficult to deal with the music, and he said, ‘Can you give me a try?’ "
It’s an expensive process, too. While revenue from CD sales continues to decline, Foos added that “rates for licensing music for film and TV have gone down very little.”
As for the licensing deals themselves, these come in all varieties, from flat-rate arrangements to those structured on a per-unit basis. Typically, a rights holder can expect about 10 cents a song on a major DVD release per disc sold.
And with some songs having multiple licensees (aka “sides”), Foos said a single episode of “Thirtysomething” could involve negotiations with 56 individual sides.
While the cost of licensing music on TV on DVD releases isn’t decreasing, overall DVD sales have been. And there’s also a revenue slide from the initial season-one disc release of a show to its season two DVD premiere -- usually about 15%-20% -- with some of the less avid series fans dropping out of the market.
Given these factors, Fox has released only one season of popular comedy “Malcolm in the Middle.” Universal has only put out one season of drama “American Dreams,” a series similarly full of original tracks.
For his part, Foos says he plans to eventually release all four seasons of “thirtysomething.”
“It’s the music licensing and the cost of music-licensing that holds these shows up,” he added.
“We really encourage publishers to try to work collaboratively to understand the economic realities of the DVD business so that everybody can make money.”
"Thirtysomething" finally on video, but where's "Wonder Years"?
By Daniel Frankel
From the first, string-laden tracks laid down by Stuart Levin and W.G. “Snuffy” Walden, to recorded songs from well-known artists like Ray Charles and Rickie Lee Jones, “thirtysomething” was a series full of music.
But music is also the main reason why the groundbreaking drama by Marshall Herskovitz and Ed Zwick will only, finally, be issued on DVD on Tuesday -- more than two decades after the hit series went off the air.
Licensing all that great music was expensive -- $1 million for the project, according to one knowledgeble person -- and very nearly prohibitively so.
“Both Ed and I tend to be forward-looking people," said Herskovitz in an email to TheWrap. "It was not like this was a thorn in our side – but every six or eight months, we’d say, ‘Hey, wait a minute, why isn’t this out on DVD yet?’ and we’d call our attorney.”
As the studios have rushed to get TV series on DVD, a handful of well-known shows have been held up because licensing their music has been deemed too expensive or time-consuming.
On Oct. 6, for example, Fox will finally release season one of “Ally McBeal." "Cop Rock," the one year Steven Bochco experiment in cop camp, "China Beach" and "Cold Case," have all been delayed for similar reasons. (See sidebar of top shows not out on DVD).
Indeed, virtually all of “Thirtysomething’s” less popular running mates from the fall 1987 broadcast TV schedule, when it premiered, have been out on disc for some time, including CBS’ “Jake and the Fatman” and NBC’s “Crime Story.”
“Not only do you have to clear the rights with the publisher, but you also have to clear the master rights with the labels,” says Garson Foos, co-head of Shout Factory, which is distributing “thirtysomething” for studio MGM. “And in some cases, rights could be split up among three different publishers.”
Indeed, virtually all of “Thirtysomething’s” less popular running mates from the fall 1987 broadcast TV schedule, when it premiered, have been out on disc for some time, including CBS’ “Jake and the Fatman” and NBC’s “Crime Story.”
The studios have been aggressive in recent years in releasing scripted TV shows into the DVD market, since these titles sell well -- even in a mature disc marketplace -- and can command a higher price point and profit margin than theatrical movies.
According to Gord Lacey, founding editor of tvshowsondvd.com, while the studios tend to license music into perpetuity, paying for regions and timelines that, in many cases, they don’t need, smaller companies like Shout license more efficiently, signing deals that span five years and cover only North America, for example.
“That cuts their music-licensing costs by a lot,” he said.
Shout Factory, for example, will sell the first-season set of “thirtysomething” for $59.99 and hopes to move at least 100,000 units in the process.
In explaining the delay for "Ally McBeal," Fox officials noted that they didn’t want to put out the lawyer-themed dramedy, starring Calista Flockhart, without securing rights to all the music first.
“Audiences expected to hear a timeless classic or something completely new each and every week,” read a studio statement.
“We understood the importance from the get-go and have worked hard to bring fans all of the original music.”
Likewise, the DVD releases of music-laden series “The Wonder Years,” from Fox, and Warner Bros' “China Beach” have also been held up, with no release date set for either.
According to Lacey, “The Wonder Years” is “the Holy Grail” of music-heavy shows that haven’t been released on DVD yet.
“You can’t release that show without the music, and there’s so much music on it that has to be licensed.”
Then there’s “thirtysomething.”
Pioneering the way for today’s complex ensemble character dramas, four seasons worth of the show have sat largely dormant in the MGM vault, with only limited release through broadcast syndication and cable TV sales, since it signed off the ABC schedule in 1991.
For their part, Foos and his partners, who previously ran music label Rhino Records, have specialized in getting musically-hindered TV shows, including “Freaks and Geeks” and “My So-Called Life,” into the DVD market.
“Our selling point is that we do all the leg work in getting the music cleared,” he explained. “We knock on the doors of the studios, saying, ‘Let us license your complicated shows that you don’t want to deal with.’”
Foos had his eyes on “Thirtysomething” for years, and was finally able to enter talks with MGM in late 2007 with the help of series producers Zwick and Herskovitz, who had long wanted to get the show out on DVD, too.
Finally getting all the music licensed for the series took from that point in time through the spring of this year.
“It’s an extremely time-consuming process, and you sometimes have to do a little detective work to track (rights-holders) down,” Foos said.
“Garson called me after we had finished putting together the ‘My So-Called Life’ set,” Herskovitz said. “We had discussions over the years with MGM and they had told us it was just too difficult to deal with the music, and he said, ‘Can you give me a try?’ "
It’s an expensive process, too. While revenue from CD sales continues to decline, Foos added that “rates for licensing music for film and TV have gone down very little.”
As for the licensing deals themselves, these come in all varieties, from flat-rate arrangements to those structured on a per-unit basis. Typically, a rights holder can expect about 10 cents a song on a major DVD release per disc sold.
And with some songs having multiple licensees (aka “sides”), Foos said a single episode of “Thirtysomething” could involve negotiations with 56 individual sides.
While the cost of licensing music on TV on DVD releases isn’t decreasing, overall DVD sales have been. And there’s also a revenue slide from the initial season-one disc release of a show to its season two DVD premiere -- usually about 15%-20% -- with some of the less avid series fans dropping out of the market.
Given these factors, Fox has released only one season of popular comedy “Malcolm in the Middle.” Universal has only put out one season of drama “American Dreams,” a series similarly full of original tracks.
For his part, Foos says he plans to eventually release all four seasons of “thirtysomething.”
“It’s the music licensing and the cost of music-licensing that holds these shows up,” he added.
“We really encourage publishers to try to work collaboratively to understand the economic realities of the DVD business so that everybody can make money.”
#2
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Re: Music Licensing Fees Keeping TV Shows off DVD
as we all know, it makes zo sense for many artists to NOT let studios rerelease TV series with their music. New exposure, how can than hurt?
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Re: Music Licensing Fees Keeping TV Shows off DVD
It makes excellent sense not to give something away that, as this article demonstrates, the DVD producers are eventually going to pay for.
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Re: Music Licensing Fees Keeping TV Shows off DVD
I don't listen to the radio anymore - I prefer my iPod. One of the few ways I hear new songs from new artists is on TV shows, which I only watch on DVD (kids have a monopoly on the TV). I bet half my purchases start that way. I wonder how many other people regularly buy songs after hearing them on a TV show?
#6
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Re: Music Licensing Fees Keeping TV Shows off DVD
This site lists what it will cost you to license the music rights if you want to sell DVDs of Sita Sings the Blues. The rights holders can charge whatever they want if you use their music with moving pictures, because synchronization fees are unregulated. This is for music that was recorded more than 60 years ago. I figure that music that's still popular probably costs a lot more.
http://www.sitasingstheblues.com/lic...tal-compliance
(I'd post the info here, but I don't know how to make tables.)
http://www.sitasingstheblues.com/lic...tal-compliance
(I'd post the info here, but I don't know how to make tables.)
#7
DVD Talk Hero
Re: Music Licensing Fees Keeping TV Shows off DVD
Freaks & Geeks had a bunch of licensed music (that had to be cleared for the dvd), and the regular dvd of it wasn't crazy expensive or anything. So why is this a problem for some releases and not others?
#8
DVD Talk Hero
Re: Music Licensing Fees Keeping TV Shows off DVD
F&G was 18 episodes. I don't see how you can compare that to the 115 episodes of The Wonder Years. Even adjusting for run-time, TWY still had almost 5x as much content as F&G and I would think the licensing would scale accordingly.
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Re: Music Licensing Fees Keeping TV Shows off DVD
I am a big proponent of this. I feel the studios should either get it right or not release it. It simply isn't the same. The rare exception of this are Life On Mars and Undeclared (and Wonderwalls, but I didn't see that first run). They (producers) actually put effort in to make sure suitable music was in there, rather than generic filler.
#10
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Re: Music Licensing Fees Keeping TV Shows off DVD
Cut the 'meh' music but keep the important stuff. I want "Ed", "Boston Public", "Daria" and "The Wonder Years" legally.
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Re: Music Licensing Fees Keeping TV Shows off DVD
So Shout got the rights for "Freaks & Geeks" but not "Undeclared"? I didn't know that the latter had any replaced music. I've never seen the show (although I bought it in DD's sale), but is it a big deal that they replaced some? How much is replaced?
I am generally of the camp that says release it right, or don't release it.
I am generally of the camp that says release it right, or don't release it.
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So Shout got the rights for "Freaks & Geeks" but not "Undeclared"? I didn't know that the latter had any replaced music. I've never seen the show (although I bought it in DD's sale), but is it a big deal that they replaced some? How much is replaced?
I am generally of the camp that says release it right, or don't release it.
I am generally of the camp that says release it right, or don't release it.
#13
DVD Talk Hero
Re: Music Licensing Fees Keeping TV Shows off DVD
And why are you comparing one season to an entire series? If they do WY season by season, similar to the one season of F&G, it should shake out the about the same per-season (and adjusting for the shorter episodes), which is what I was getting at.
#14
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Re: Music Licensing Fees Keeping TV Shows off DVD
Guess I should have waited for you to get there 
I don't recall you specifying that F&G was "Season 1" as opposed to the "Complete Series".

I don't recall you specifying that F&G was "Season 1" as opposed to the "Complete Series".
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#16
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Re: Music Licensing Fees Keeping TV Shows off DVD
You really think they'd attempt to clear every thing at once? Like any other show, they'd test the waters with the first season and see if it's worth it to continue. F&G was actually a riskier proposition than WY would be.
#17
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Re: Music Licensing Fees Keeping TV Shows off DVD
I think that if they wanted to test the waters, they would have done it years ago.
#18
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Re: Music Licensing Fees Keeping TV Shows off DVD
That's why it's non-release is so inexplicable. The "time to strike while the iron is hot" for TV on dvd was a good 5-7 years ago, and if they put it out now, it won't sell nearly as well as it would've back then (licensing fees would've definitely cost a lot less back then too).
I think they can still make some money off these releases, even if they pony up for most of the music, but I guess they aren't willing to risk it.
I think they can still make some money off these releases, even if they pony up for most of the music, but I guess they aren't willing to risk it.
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Re: Music Licensing Fees Keeping TV Shows off DVD
Ally McBeal didn't test the waters, they're just releasing the Complete Series set with all the original music on the same day as the First Season.
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Re: Music Licensing Fees Keeping TV Shows off DVD
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What I meant is that they didn't test them by just releasing one season at a time first. I applaud them for that set, actually. Very brave move and also very cool of them to acquire all of the rights.
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Re: Music Licensing Fees Keeping TV Shows off DVD
Take the "Roswell" DVDs for example. The producers went through and selected all the important songs (including several crazy expensive ones) and kept them for the fans while replacing a lot of the unknown/background music in order to make the sets affordable. And throughout all 3 seasons I think maybe twice I realized that a song was replaced (and that's only because of my geeky VHS copies).
While is sucks that shows like "Dawson's Creek" get butchered with the music rights, I'd rather have the choice of buying edited episodes than no choice.
#23
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Re: Music Licensing Fees Keeping TV Shows off DVD
Music replacement killed the Baywatch DVD releases. First Look only released 3 seasons and the line was eventually discontinued. I'm glad because they were a piece of shit even though they were only $20 a piece.
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Re: Music Licensing Fees Keeping TV Shows off DVD
This is the key to the whole thing. The laws need to be looked at and reevaluated. Home video/DVD was not in the picture (like it is now) when it was first written. These publishers/songwriters are extorting as much as they can and the product/public suffers. There needs to be a reasonable cap that still allows for reasonable DVD production costs. Congress is busy with larger issues now but this needs to be addressed and soon.
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Re: Music Licensing Fees Keeping TV Shows off DVD
Ally McBeal incorporated music tightly into the storylines - if they edited out Barry White, for example, many episodes wouldn't make sense. Are there many other shows like this?