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The Dark Knight: 12-09-08 (Part Two)

Old 12-10-08, 01:48 AM
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That's a bummer on the online rebate
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Old 12-10-08, 01:48 AM
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Originally Posted by NiCK Crush View Post
...I have reason to believe someone has gotten me the Hot Toys Bat-pod for Christmas...
that will be one damn nice gift! :envy:

you are aware that it is 1:6 scale? so you can get the 12-inchish hot toys dark knight figure and plop him right on it
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Old 12-10-08, 01:58 AM
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I picked up the 2-Disc for $17.50 at Borders with a coupon tonight and popped it in to watch a few scenes. The picture quality is truly abysmal and for me the final straw when it comes to WB and subpar DVDs (Oceans 13 is still the worst recent transfer I've seen, but that one had issues on HD and Blu-Ray as well, so I give it a semi-pass).

I sent an email to Bill Hunt asking his opinion on the possibility of Warner possibly sabotaging SD transfers to drive consumers to Blu-Ray. I don't know if I'll hear anything back, but I think this really is icing on the cake for evidence that they are doing something shady.

From what I've observed the following WB SD transfers seem fishy:
The Fountain (ugly transfer; even Aronofsky was pissed and trying to get a deal worked out between WB and Criterion for a re-release)
The Departed (the first 15-20 mins suck; then clear up)
Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix (a lot of EE and some artifacting)
Oceans 13 (an absolute mess; one of the worst big studio transfers I've seen; although as I did note there were issues with the BD and HD and rumors that it was due to Soderbergh's artistic choices)
The Dark Knight (full of EE and some artifacts; the 480p trailers look better than the DVD IMO)
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Old 12-10-08, 02:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Boba Fett View Post
Oceans 13 (an absolute mess; one of the worst big studio transfers I've seen; although as I did note there were issues with the BD and HD and rumors that it was due to Soderbergh's artistic choices)
That is some really devious practices if that is what they are doing. I don't have a nice enough TV to notice it too much but I did notice on The Dark Knight. Why would WB be the ones doing it though? Wouldn't Sony have more of a reason to sabotage it?

And how can a bad transfer be an artistic choice?
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Old 12-10-08, 02:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Boba Fett View Post
I sent an email to Bill Hunt asking his opinion on the possibility of Warner possibly sabotaging SD transfers to drive consumers to Blu-Ray. I don't know if I'll hear anything back, but I think this really is icing on the cake for evidence that they are doing something shady.

From what I've observed the following WB SD transfers seem fishy:
The Fountain (ugly transfer; even Aronofsky was pissed and trying to get a deal worked out between WB and Criterion for a re-release)
The Departed (the first 15-20 mins suck; then clear up)
Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix (a lot of EE and some artifacting)
Oceans 13 (an absolute mess; one of the worst big studio transfers I've seen; although as I did note there were issues with the BD and HD and rumors that it was due to Soderbergh's artistic choices)
The Dark Knight (full of EE and some artifacts; the 480p trailers look better than the DVD IMO)
I don't know if you saw my post a couple of pages back, about this very issue, but, I would be highly interested in hearing any reply you might get. I truly believe Warner Bros. is sabotaging their SD transfers, particularly on "big" releases. As I mentioned in my previous post, and I don't know if you have this movie on SD, but, the transfer of Superman Returns is absolutely HIDEOUS. The crazy thing is, it's the newest film in the series, yet, the worst looking on SD. I have the big silver metal keepsake Superman Ultimate Collector's Edition of the entire series, and none of the other discs come close to exhibiting the problems that Superman Returns does.

You mentioned Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix, which I agree with, but, I would dare say that Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire looks much worse. Particularly those dark, foggy scenes sprinkled throughout. Terrible!

I finally broke down and bought a Blu-Ray player, and therefore I will only be buying Blu-Ray discs from now on. Hopefully the days of hideous transfers are over. However, I bet at the end of the day, were an investigation made into this issue with Warner Bros. titles, we would find that they have been doing something highly suspect to their SD transfers.
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Old 12-10-08, 02:49 AM
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With the regards to wb dvds looking bad, if the BDs look good then it's not the transfer. It's the method of encoding/compression. DVDs and BDs of the same release come from the same master, usually. But this doesn't counter anything you guys are saying about WB sabotaging the dvds. It's just not during the transfer.
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Old 12-10-08, 03:05 AM
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Originally Posted by tanman View Post
That is some really devious practices if that is what they are doing. I don't have a nice enough TV to notice it too much but I did notice on The Dark Knight. Why would WB be the ones doing it though? Wouldn't Sony have more of a reason to sabotage it?

And how can a bad transfer be an artistic choice?
From what I heard Soderbergh wanted it to look like a garrish vintage 70s era film. I saw it in the theaters, and I remembered it did look really really, grainy and the colors very rich. I think on home video the grain and rich color translated to digital noise and color bleeding, which is how I'd describe the SD transfer.

My theory and I believe others' for WB sabotaging SD transfers is as follows. A lot of people haven't made the jump to 1080p so they aren't worried about Blu-Ray yet. Those who are big film buffs but don't want to convert, watch SD upconverted to 720p/1080i (and in many cases 1080p) and feel the image quality is good enough for them. There are also people who understand they will only see a big difference beteween upconverted SD and true HD if they have the right size of HDTV and are within a certain distance.

To Warner (and I'll agree I'm shocked more studios haven't possibly pulled this) this translates to low Blu-Ray sales. From their point of view if all new big name SD-DVDs have crappy transfers, even average viewers will think, "This looks like crap, maybe I should think about that Blu-Ray stuff." To me the practice makes perfect sense but is entirely underhanded (and possibly illegal) and makes me think twice about supporting WB in the future.
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Old 12-10-08, 03:06 AM
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Originally Posted by dEEahn20 View Post
With the regards to wb dvds looking bad, if the BDs look good then it's not the transfer. It's the method of encoding/compression. DVDs and BDs of the same release come from the same master, usually. But this doesn't counter anything you guys are saying about WB sabotaging the dvds. It's just not during the transfer.
On the AVS forums there seems to be a consensus that under scrutiny, even the BD transfer isn't that great. The screencaps of the SD and BD though are amazing, and even if the BD isn't as good as it could be, it's light years beyond the SD.
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Old 12-10-08, 04:01 AM
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Yeah, The Fountain is by far the worst transfer I have seen in recent years. The picture was sooooo dark that I could not see anything. The sound was also terrible. I literally had to turn the television all the way up, put on subtitled, and change the contrast on my television set to as bright as it would go...and even then it still sucked. It's a shame too, because the movie is brilliant and it really detracts from the visuals, story, dialogue, and acting.
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Old 12-10-08, 04:23 AM
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I just got done doing some more scene watching on the DVD, and although I will definitely get a second opinion on this one. The native 1.40:1 IMAX scenes on the second DVD look like better transfers (even with the 2.35:1 non IMAX scenes intercut like in the Lamborghini chase) than the feature film on disc 1.
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Old 12-10-08, 05:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Boba Fett View Post
On the AVS forums there seems to be a consensus that under scrutiny, even the BD transfer isn't that great. The screencaps of the SD and BD though are amazing, and even if the BD isn't as good as it could be, it's light years beyond the SD.
If that's the case then it could be a combination of both. Or both could just be horribly encoded. Digital artifacts such as edge enhancement usually results from poor encoding/transcoding/compresson. I haven't seen TDK on either disc form yet, but it is apparent from other releases that WB is dropping the ball. If it's a conspiracy or some sort of sabotaging is left to be determined.
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Old 12-10-08, 05:28 AM
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Question to the people who got the Walmart exclusive coin and book: is the DVD itself factory sealed and does it come with a slipcover? I wanted to sell or give away as a gift the single disc DVD.
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Old 12-10-08, 06:23 AM
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Thanks Xage, this is what I meant from my earlier post about all the editions!
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Old 12-10-08, 08:34 AM
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Why is anyone buying this on dvd when its available on blu-ray?
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Old 12-10-08, 08:39 AM
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How exactly does WB benefit from these "sabotage" conspiracy theories? First, I will bet that most people watching the DVD won't notice or care. Second, the theory is that WB WANTS people to be dissatisfied with the DVD... the format that will be seen by an insanely greater number of people than the Blu-Ray. What does WB care which format they make their money on? If consumers give up on Blu-Ray right now, DVD will still continue to make them a ton of money. And aren't they making more money per unit off of DVD than Blu-Ray? They'd have to be. Nobody in their right mind would think that the consumer response after seeing The Dark Knight will be "I will have to buy a Blu-Ray player." If the goal is to disgust consumers with PQ, the more likely response will be "I will stop buying WB DVDs" before it will be "I will buy WB Blu-Ray discs instead."

Given what I've seen with all the post-processing tactics some of these studios do, I think the simple explanation is that they are seriously out of touch with reality. We've seen Universal go out of their way to make a few Blu-Ray titles look worse than the HD-DVD. Is Universal trying to sabotage Blu-Ray? On the same releases, they try to upgrade the audio over the HD-DVD counterpart, so it doesn't seem as if that's their intention. It's more likely that they THINK they need to overlay the DNR, apply the EE, etc... in order to make it "look good" to J6P.
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Old 12-10-08, 09:57 AM
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I would have preferred they break the movie into two discs and have the first half on one and second ont he other. That way the quality wouldnt have been compromised so much. Hopefully a re-release in the future with more extras will fix the video issues.
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Old 12-10-08, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by hapgilmore View Post
Why is anyone buying this on dvd when its available on blu-ray?
Yeah we will see how much the DVD outsells the Bluray release. Probably about 10 times as much at least.
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Old 12-10-08, 10:51 AM
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I love the coin exclusive but it bums be out that "COPY" is imprinted on the backside. Makes it look a little cheesy. Good quality coin though. I'm going to keep that and the comic in the case, but give away or re-sell the single-disc WS DVD.

Same thing with the CC Exclusive. Keeping the slipcase and journal, but giving away the 2-disc DVD for Christmas.

That leaves me with the Best Buy Joker Mask Blu-Ray Exclusive, the FYE SteelBook Exclusive, and then the bonus materials from the CC Exclusive and the Wal-Mart Exclusive. I'm pleased. 1 copy of both SD and BD, and a bunch of exclusives.
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Old 12-10-08, 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by chris_sc77 View Post
Yeah we will see how much the DVD outsells the Bluray release. Probably about 10 times as much at least.
Obviously you are right. But I will enjoy perfect a/v while you settle for mediocrity muahahha (evil laugh)
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Old 12-10-08, 11:08 AM
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Originally Posted by MadonnasManOne View Post
I can't believe that a Class Action lawsuit hasn't been brought against Warner Bros. because of this issue. It's quite apparent what they are doing, trying to force consumers to move to Blu-Ray, by offering an inferior transfer on the DVD.
Lawsuit.

Even if it were true, what exactly would be the grounds to sue?
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Old 12-10-08, 11:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Goldblum View Post
Lawsuit.

Even if it were true, what exactly would be the grounds to sue?
Purposely putting out poor quality standard definition releases, in the hope of forcing consumers to upgrade to the more expensive high definition format. That would be an unfair business practice, and I am sure it's one that could be found guilty in a court of law.
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Old 12-10-08, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by chris_sc77 View Post
Yeah we will see how much the DVD outsells the Bluray release. Probably about 10 times as much at least.
I wonder if the reason will be because there are over 130 million dvd players in US households and only about 7 million BD players.
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Old 12-10-08, 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted by hapgilmore View Post
Obviously you are right. But I will enjoy perfect a/v while you settle for mediocrity muahahha (evil laugh)
Freaking classic my man!
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Old 12-10-08, 01:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Kal Varnsen View Post
Question to the people who got the Walmart exclusive coin and book: is the DVD itself factory sealed and does it come with a slipcover? I wanted to sell or give away as a gift the single disc DVD.
Yes it's shrinkwrapped but NO slipcover.
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Old 12-10-08, 01:44 PM
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[IMG]darkknight[/IMG]


My region 2 TDK haul - mask, 2-disc and batpod. Still waiting for the blu-ray edition.
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