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Old 11-09-07, 04:10 PM   #1
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Comments, Suggestions & Feedback for the 2008 "October Horror Movie Challenge"...

No poll to limit your selections this time around. Please keep it civil.


The main thread will be posted on September 1st.

The lists thread will be posted just prior to October 1st ...possibly a little sooner this year.

Last edited by Chad; 08-26-08 at 03:42 PM.
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Old 11-09-07, 04:37 PM   #2
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Partly because my kids will still be little next year (and partly because this is what I regularly watch at Halloween), I vote for including Halloween related TV shows and specials.

Of course, this is just my opinion and I'll go with whatever the majority decides.
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Old 11-09-07, 07:59 PM   #3
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I could see counting Halloween TV shows and specials, but only if they are truly Halloween shows. No counting every episode of Buffy or other "horror" show.

But then, as pointed out last month, it is the October Horror Movie Challenge.

So I imagine it will be pretty much as it was last month, movies only, but 3 wildcards.
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Old 11-09-07, 09:14 PM   #4
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I liked the addition of the Wildcard system, and I'd continue to support keeping it a movie-only challenge. If someone wants to spin-off the Halloween TV/Special Challenge, you'd probably have a full slate of participants there too. But as Trevor says, not every episode of Buffy or X-Files or whatever is really horror, and you might open yourself up to too much argument.

This may be controversial, but I'd propose removing Masters of Horror episodes from the Challenge. They were a big part of the first year, mostly because they were new and everyone was excited about them. They've turned out in large part to be disappointing, and in the challenge they've led to far too much "if MOH counts then X-show should also" talk.
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Old 11-09-07, 09:40 PM   #5
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I see your points on MOH Shack, but think I disagree.

If you had to declare them as either movies or TV, I think you would have to classify them as movies.

Short movies, but well above the "Academy" 40 minute rule and longer than some of the classic Universal monster features, which will always have to count. So the time "rule" will always have to be 57 minutes or less. (I think all the Universal classics were 57 or more, right?)

Bad movies, but movies. I watched twelve and and a half of season one's MOH movies, and while all were interesting and had a few good moments, none of them rate above a 6.5/10 in my book. I will likely never watch them again after I watch the special features and commentaries.
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Old 11-09-07, 09:57 PM   #6
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Well, I think of them as TV since they were first run on Showtime, but I see your point. I've got nothing against MOH in itself, only that then there's endless discussion on why other TV series don't count. If we can write the rule that MOH is a special case, and no other shows are (sort of the way we did the first two years with The Great Pumpkin), I'm fine.
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Old 11-09-07, 10:16 PM   #7
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The rules were a little unclear at first. But didn't they end up being cleaned up? I think they ended up being (synopsis):
  1. TV shows do not count, unless as one of your three wildcards.
  2. MOH is not TV, they are movies.

And, to harp, they were cleaned up after I bought and opened TZ season 4 for some 1 hour horror episodes.
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Old 11-10-07, 12:11 AM   #9
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First time participant -- I think everything was great as it is!

The only downside was the squabbling over each other's lists. I think those involved didn't mean for it to escalate as it did, but it got to the point where things were shut down for a day or two which was discouraging.

As was suggested by a few folks, and even a mod, it's probably best to eliminate prizes from the challenge. The challenge is to make 100, or whatever goal you set for yourself, all the while having as much fun as possible. While it's interesting to look over the lists of others, it shouldn't matter to me what others are counting/not counting.

I think I offered at one point that a secondary goal would be to watch more movies as a group , both total number of movies and/or average number of movies per participant. That way the focus remains on encouraging each other along the way.
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Old 11-10-07, 01:48 AM   #10
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The sole suggestion I have is more emphasis on real time updates, if you're devoting hours and hours per day, there is no excuse to go 2-3 days without updates. If there is no real time policy instituted, I probably won't post my list for the month until after Halloween next year, if I participate.
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Old 11-10-07, 10:00 AM   #11
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No prizes. No rules. Really I just want to see what other people are watching.
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Old 11-10-07, 10:10 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shack
I liked the addition of the Wildcard system, and I'd continue to support keeping it a movie-only challenge. If someone wants to spin-off the Halloween TV/Special Challenge, you'd probably have a full slate of participants there too. But as Trevor says, not every episode of Buffy or X-Files or whatever is really horror, and you might open yourself up to too much argument.
I might think about a spin-off challenge, but that would probably get too confusing.

I guess I just like the liberal rules of the Holiday Movie Challenge. And I agree, if you are going to watch "Buffy", it has to be one of the Halloween episodes.

Like I mentioned before, I had a ton of fun with the contest and I'll go with whatever the majority wants. As for strictly keeping it a "Movie Only" contest, I think the current rules are fine.

As for prizes, I say if there are any prizes at all, it should be a random drawing.

Another idea I thought of is a "Movie of the Day". A list of movies could be decided before the contest starts and then everybody could watch the chosen movie some time during the given day and talk about it the next day here. Just an idea.
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Old 11-10-07, 10:12 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JerryKILL
No prizes. No rules. Really I just want to see what other people are watching.
Ya know, that's not a bad idea either.
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Old 11-10-07, 01:06 PM   #14
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Someone to stand over everyones shoulder and make sure they watch what they say they watch.............
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Old 11-10-07, 01:30 PM   #15
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Having fun is the biggest rule of all for me. Enought of picking out other people's lists. If you're truly in it to have fun, then stop nitpicking other people's list. Who cares what they watch, or if they're really watching it. If you're there to watch movies and have fun, then do just that.

I agree on including Halloween Specials. Including TV Shows would cause to much confusion if we can't include all episodes of X-Files, Buffy, etc...because they're all pretty much horror based. So I think they should all be counted, or not be counted at all. To limit how many episodes of one of those shows one could watch or only specify certain ones would defeat the purpose of including them in the first place, I think.

Other than that, I think everything was great, and hopefully I could participate next year!
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Old 11-11-07, 01:41 AM   #16
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I had a lot of fun this year. I was surprised how easy it was to hit 100 movies. I was even more surprised with as many people hitting over 300. I'd like to agree with no more prizes, but I doubt that would have helped. The bragging rights probably would still have resulted in the squabbles.

I do think we should reconsider the 40 minute rule and have a tighter rein on what we count as features. There was a bit of abuse of DVD extras fluff (despite the admonition in the actual rules of the challenge about abusing shorter films) in padding some of the lists. While I have no doubt that the time was taken to watch them, it was against the spirit of the challenge to count anything other than features. When we allowed in documentaries I was hoping we would count actual documentaries rather than "making of" filler.

I agree with perhaps a 57 minute rule with exceptions allowed if they can be proved to have been released theatrically. Made for video or TV films under 57 minutes cannot be counted, no exceptions.

I'm sure I'll think of some more, but those are my initial impressions.
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Old 11-11-07, 07:17 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Maher
Another idea I thought of is a "Movie of the Day". A list of movies could be decided before the contest starts and then everybody could watch the chosen movie some time during the given day and talk about it the next day here. Just an idea.
Awesome idea!

Halloween on the 31st of course. But can you imagine the debate on which other 30 films are the "film of the day"? Maybe pick 30 participants and let them choose 1 each. Of course, they should be films common to people's collections.

Or maybe the top 31 horror films as per IMDB?
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Old 11-11-07, 07:25 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JerryKILL
No prizes. No rules. Really I just want to see what other people are watching.
The best idea yet!

Quote:
Originally Posted by caligulathegod
I had a lot of fun this year. I was surprised how easy it was to hit 100 movies. I was even more surprised with as many people hitting over 300. I'd like to agree with no more prizes, but I doubt that would have helped. The bragging rights probably would still have resulted in the squabbles.

I do think we should reconsider the 40 minute rule and have a tighter rein on what we count as features. There was a bit of abuse of DVD extras fluff (despite the admonition in the actual rules of the challenge about abusing shorter films) in padding some of the lists. While I have no doubt that the time was taken to watch them, it was against the spirit of the challenge to count anything other than features. When we allowed in documentaries I was hoping we would count actual documentaries rather than "making of" filler.

I agree with perhaps a 57 minute rule with exceptions allowed if they can be proved to have been released theatrically. Made for video or TV films under 57 minutes cannot be counted, no exceptions.

I'm sure I'll think of some more, but those are my initial impressions.
I see your points caligulathegod, but I think we need to think about this completely differently.

These kind of "rules" just lead to arguing, bending, and thread closing type behavior. The fewer rules the better. It's a challenge for fun, not a contest. Let's keep it as simple as possible.

And just to be thorough, I don't think the documentary comments were directed at me, but here are some rebuttal comments. I didn't notice too many DVD docs listed. I watched three or four, but I only choose ones which I felt to be substantial, were listed as separate features in IMDB, and were over the time rule. Also, I watched everything Halloween-related on Halloween to make it as complete a Halloween-Day as possible, so I included all 2-3 of the Halloween related docs I could find .

Again, less rules, more fun!

Last edited by Trevor; 11-11-07 at 07:28 AM.
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Old 11-11-07, 04:47 PM   #19
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Tone is really hard to express in print, so take this as just conversational and in the spirit of debate.

Yeah, I just want to keep it simple. It's more suggestion and feedback than accusation. It should be features and features only. If we limit it to an hour, then it automatically limits it to features without a bunch of additional rules and exceptions. I had more about it but I don't want to get into anything that might be taken wrong. I was just under the impression it was a group challenge to watch a bunch of Horror movies rather than an attempt to have prodigiously impressive lists. What we did have was perfectly legal. I just question if it was in the spirit of the challenge.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chad's original rules
As established in previous years and as voted on by the people, The Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences, The American Film Institute, and The British Film Institute all define a feature as a film with a running time of forty minutes or longer. Please don't try and purposely abuse this by watching numerous movies with extraordinarily short running times!
I liked the liberal interpretation of Horror we had this year (thrillers, etc.). If someone feels that their film is Horror, then they got to count it. I almost watched The Passion of the Christ as it is really a glorified snuff flick, but I ended up missing it.

I liked all the lists. There were some wonderfully creative formatting and I especially liked the running commentaries on the films. I attempted it but gave up early. I was watching films during downtime (I support installation teams remotely, so sometimes I'm done before they are.) and just didn't have time. I like those who did, though.

All in all, it was a very well run challenge this year.

Last edited by caligulathegod; 11-12-07 at 12:57 AM.
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Old 11-11-07, 05:08 PM   #20
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I'd co-sign on the hour limit, sounds ideal. My list will suffer a little, since I watch tons of Travel Channel, but its worth it.
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Old 11-11-07, 06:06 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JerryKILL
No prizes. No rules. Really I just want to see what other people are watching.
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Old 11-11-07, 07:55 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JerryKILL
No prizes. No rules. Really I just want to see what other people are watching.
If there are no rules, then people could watch non-horror stuff. That defeats the purpose of a horror challenge. If you want to just see what people are watching, there's a weekly thread for that already.

I'm happy with the industry rated 40 minute rule but if it were to change, I'd like it to be 50 minutes. Some of the movies in my 50 Horror Movie Classics set were just a tad under 50 minutes. At the same time it would get rid of the hour long tv documentaries/shows since they run around 45 minutes.

Masters of Horror are movies, not good movies but movies just the same.

No commentaries. They aren't scary and before anyone asks, not even the Return of the Living Dead one where they get attacked by zombies during the commentary.

As for people asking if a movie was horror or not and others disagreeing on it, why not have a rule saying as long as imdb.com or allmovie.com says it's horror, then it's fine. I was pretty much going by that when I was watching my movies. This will avoid any stupid ET debates. Just because it had an alien and they went trick or treating doesn't make it a horror movie.

I don't think tv shows should be allowed but if they are, I think a list should be made of what's allowed long before the next challenge. The Simpson's Treehouse of Horrors and other Halloween episodes would be fine, Buffy wouldn't be unless there's a Halloween episode. They're making a list for the Holiday Challenge, so I don't see why we couldn't if we had to.

Keep the one version of a movie unless it's a remake rule.

Last edited by The Man with the Golden Doujinshi; 11-11-07 at 07:58 PM.
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Old 11-11-07, 11:04 PM   #23
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I agree on the commentaries too, I didn't count the ones I listened to this time and I wouldn't next year either, regardless of the rules.
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Old 11-12-07, 02:40 AM   #24
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I've actually softened on commentaries. I watched one commentary on a sound film and one on a silent. I met Camille Keaton earlier this year at a Horror con and wanted to watch I Spit on Your Grave again, but I really couldn't do it. Last year, the Joe Bob Briggs commentary was recommended to me, so I watched it this year. And lo and behold, he actually made the film more palatable. I also watched commentary on Haxan. I'd watched the William Burroughs version for years and I think as an educational film anyway, the commentary fit into the spirit of the movie. I still think that all effort should be put towards watching the movie as intended by the filmmakers, but under certain circumstances I can see the value of a good commentary. Unfortunately, most commentaries are of the back-patting variety and are worthless.

I'm sympathetic about the 50 movie sets, but then again they aren't really huge investments nor filled with particularly good movies, so I would rather see cherry-picking the best films from these collections and the occasional strategic use of a shorter movie. Watching day after day of 45 minute movies just to get high list counts is the equivalent (in forums that reward high post counts) of posting "Word..." in thread after thread. Is it fair to those who are taking the challenge at face value and watching traditional 70-90 minute movies? Now Horror is a genre with a high percentage of shorter than normal features (there are no three hour Horror epics-unless it's a miniseries), but loading up on poverty row quickies or cable documentaries or DVD extras or even MOH because they barely reach the magic 40 minutes mark just to reach some astronomical list number kind of takes the challenge out of it. This year, we had a huge increase in the amount of people who reached 100, 200, and incredibly 300+. It means that either the challenge has grown too easy or some holes were found and exploited. If we went to a 57 minute rule (so as to allow in the rare Universal that is just under an hour), think of it as a "lowering of the pitcher's mound", so to speak, to make it more of a challenge next year.

On the other side of the coin, how about miniseries? While it is considered fair to count what are IMO featurettes, what about miniseries? I know I passed on a few because I couldn't justify using up 3-8 hours on something that would only count as one movie. It was brought up at the last minute in the previous poll, but how about counting miniseries as two movies? Criteria being that they must be over three hours and have been presented over multiple nights. I can't think of a single three hour theatrical horror effort and any three hour television movies (like the Carrie remake) don't actually reach three hours minus commercials, so it would automatically include miniseries which were typically presented over multiple nights. I'm thinking Salem's Lot, Frankenstein the True Story, The Stand, etc. There's two routes we could take if we implement this. We could automatically count all miniseries as two movies (perhaps with an asterisk) or count them according to how many nights they were presented when they were on TV.

Just food for thought.
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Old 11-12-07, 07:27 AM   #25
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I think its went fine the past few years with the exception of the complaining... I think there should be a rule that once you start bitching about people's lists, you are effectively out of the "competition". I know its hard to enforce that since that's up to the mods really, but if there was some way to do it, I would be all for it.
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