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Spielberg/Harris restoring Godfather trilogy

Old 06-07-08, 04:31 AM
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In this year 2008 this has to be not the best looking re-mastered job on a dvd I've ever seen. The re-mastered scenes all look like when I was just learning PHOTOSHOP. Too much brightness here and there.
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Old 06-07-08, 08:09 AM
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Any reviews of this dvd?
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Old 06-11-08, 10:37 PM
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I'm sure Robert Harris is a excelent and very competent film restorer. This new restoration, made in 4K resolution, must be the bether of all, certainly, especially with thew aprovall of Copolla.

What I meant before, it's that the studio did stupid prior jobs. Why? The first DVD of Gone With the Wind was so stupidy ion coor balance that any film restorer or film critic was able to notice. Maybe the GWTW first digital restoration used wrong colors intentionally just to call atention, like a subliminal message sayin: "Hey look how modern the colors look now. Take it to see in a modern way" .

Luckely Robert Harris came to save the day again, together with Copolla. And we are glad that Copolla didn't made like George Lucas, adding a special altered FX version presenting Corleone shooting first. :-)

A supervisor of a digital restoration department from a company on Brasil told me that a Kodak technician said that no 35mm film emulsion prior to earlly 80's could render more than 2K in image deatail. I sincerelly doubit. Maybe visually it's similar to 4k, but for enhancment and noise manipulatiuon, like they did to match original negative with film master positive and duplicate negatives, 4K seens necessary.
Sure that the 35mm film emulsion of 70's was a lot inferior than today 35mm emulsions, since was a lot more grainer, with less shadow details and quite softer. The modern 35mm films of today present some few extra details even in 6K, compared to 4K.

Last edited by Alfred Bergman; 06-11-08 at 10:58 PM.
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Old 06-12-08, 07:44 AM
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As far as improvement in picture quality goes, just doing a quick demo... umm...

I'll post two screen captures, tell me which one you think has better PQ:
Sample A:



Click here for full-sized Sample A.

Or Sample B:



Click here for full-sized Sample B.

Spoiler:
Sample A is The Coppola Restoration (R2), Sample B is the original release. Surprised? I was. Colors are more vibrant in the old version, and blacks are more solid on the old version, as well - you can actually make out the creases/details of the wedding gown better on the OLD version. So I actually prefer the old release, so far. :-\ But I'm a sucker for bonus material, so maybe the new features they added will compensate a bit.
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Old 06-12-08, 08:46 AM
  #130  
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The colors on Sample B are deeply oversaturated and the contrasts badly crushed. Look how dull the white of the wedding dress is and how little shadow detail there is on all of the tuxedos (especially the guy on the far left).

The movie is supposed to have an old-timey look to it, and Sample A captures that better overall. However, it does appear that whites are blown out, especially the lack of detail on the dress and tuxedo shirts.

Version A is preferred overall, but (judging only by these samples) neither one of them is quite perfect.
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Old 06-12-08, 09:15 AM
  #131  
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Originally Posted by Josh Z
The colors on Sample B are deeply oversaturated and the contrasts badly crushed. Look how dull the white of the wedding dress is and how little shadow detail there is on all of the tuxedos (especially the guy on the far left).

The movie is supposed to have an old-timey look to it, and Sample A captures that better overall. However, it does appear that whites are blown out, especially the lack of detail on the dress and tuxedo shirts.

Version A is preferred overall, but (judging only by these samples) neither one of them is quite perfect.
It seems to be 6 of 1, half dozen of the other. In "A" details on lighter portions are lost (creases in the wedding gown). In "B" details on the darker portions are lost (creases in the tuxedos).
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Old 06-12-08, 11:57 AM
  #132  
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Originally Posted by elvis_depp
As far as improvement in picture quality goes, just doing a quick demo... umm...

Sample A is The Coppola Restoration (R2), Sample B is the original release. Surprised? I was. Colors are more vibrant in the old version, and blacks are more solid on the old version, as well - you can actually make out the creases/details of the wedding gown better on the OLD version. So I actually prefer the old release, so far. :-\ But I'm a sucker for bonus material, so maybe the new features they added will compensate a bit.
You're completely missing the point of this restoration, which cannot be put forth through screen-shots.

First of all - as I posted earlier, for this new restoration they got rid of all the nicks and scratches that were in the elements and popped up constantly in the earlier release. You have to see it in motion to appreciate.

Second, this new restoration is more in line with what Coppola and cinematographer Gordon Willis ultimately had in mind when lighting, shooting and color-correcting the film. Complaining about color "vibrancy" is your subjective opinion and not the way the filmmakers intended the movie to look.

What you should be complaining about are the shoddy new extras...
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Old 06-12-08, 12:04 PM
  #133  
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Originally Posted by Alfred Bergman
I'm sure Robert Harris is a excellent and very competent film restorer. This new restoration, made in 4K resolution, must be the better of all, certainly, especially with thew approval of Copolla.
And cinematographer Gordon Willis!

I don't have the DVD yet (hopefully a BR release is announced soon) but thus far really like the color correction on the caps posted at Zona. I have total confidence in Mr. Harris and his expertise on the issue and cannot wait to see the film in its entirety.

Looks great

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Old 06-12-08, 01:57 PM
  #134  
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Originally Posted by sracer
It seems to be 6 of 1, half dozen of the other. In "A" details on lighter portions are lost (creases in the wedding gown). In "B" details on the darker portions are lost (creases in the tuxedos).
As far as crushed detail goes, you're right, but the color balance on "A" looks more accurate to the intended style of the movie. Just look at those deep orange flesh tone on "B". Everyone looks like they've just gotten a bad spray tan.

Last edited by Josh Z; 06-12-08 at 01:59 PM.
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Old 06-12-08, 02:13 PM
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Sample A looks horrendous in that latest example.
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Old 06-12-08, 02:50 PM
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In the extras, Coppola actually talks about the first few scenes of Godfather and how he intended to have an exaggerated contrast, juxtaposing between the darkness of Vito's office and the overblown brightness of the wedding outside. Again, it's supposed to look like that.
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Old 06-12-08, 08:17 PM
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Originally Posted by slop101
In the extras, Coppola actually talks about the first few scenes of Godfather and how he intended to have an exaggerated contrast, juxtaposing between the darkness of Vito's office and the overblown brightness of the wedding outside. Again, it's supposed to look like that.
It's one thing to say there's supposed to be a contrast between the bright exteriors and the dark interiors, but it's quite another to say that he intended to crush detail in the whites. The detail is there on the 35mm source elements. The white crush is introduced at the video transfer stage, and is clearly not intentional.

(However, I will again reiterate that I think Sample A looks better overall.)
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Old 06-13-08, 09:28 AM
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Originally Posted by slop101
In the extras, Coppola actually talks about the first few scenes of Godfather and how he intended to have an exaggerated contrast, juxtaposing between the darkness of Vito's office and the overblown brightness of the wedding outside. Again, it's supposed to look like that.
I agree with some others who mention that the balance is between the two images posted.

There is an old adage, trust the art, not the artist. Coppola has said a lot of things over the years. If you're looking for capital 'T' Truth, look somewhere else. The truth to Coppola is what he sees as the truth when it passes his lips. Commenting on what happened many, many bottles of wine ago is worth little.
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Old 06-13-08, 11:30 AM
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eh, who cares what it looks like...it's "The Godfather"!!
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Old 06-13-08, 07:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Josh Z
It's one thing to say there's supposed to be a contrast between the bright exteriors and the dark interiors, but it's quite another to say that he intended to crush detail in the whites. The detail is there on the 35mm source elements. The white crush is introduced at the video transfer stage, and is clearly not intentional.

(However, I will again reiterate that I think Sample A looks better overall.)
The negative is not necessarily supposed to be "fully" visible in a sense. On Citizen Kane's DVD, the brightening of the image resulted in a lot of effects to be exposed. One can see the matte placed over Kane's bed in the opening so an existing shot could be re-used. Or one of the newsreel title cards had text re-done, only for the blanked out portion to have a visible outline. They're invisible on a properly adjusted print or video master. It's not like you can make a print off the negative with no adjustments and get the intended picture.

Originally Posted by ctyankee
I agree with some others who mention that the balance is between the two images posted.

There is an old adage, trust the art, not the artist. Coppola has said a lot of things over the years. If you're looking for capital 'T' Truth, look somewhere else. The truth to Coppola is what he sees as the truth when it passes his lips. Commenting on what happened many, many bottles of wine ago is worth little.
If you can't trust the artist, you can't trust the art. It's entirely plausible that Coppola knows exactly how his films should be shown. He only co-wrote, produced, and directed them after all.

Bottom line: If Coppola, Willis, and Harris can't be trusted with how the restorations turned out, who can? No one, especially office chair critics who have the delusion that a previous video release is the gospel truth on how the proper look should be.

Last edited by PatrickMcCart; 06-13-08 at 07:44 PM.
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Old 06-13-08, 07:57 PM
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Originally Posted by PatrickMcCart
If you can't trust the artist, you can't trust the art. It's entirely plausible that Coppola knows exactly how his films should be shown. He only co-wrote, produced, and directed them after all.
The more I listen to the man's commentaries - his latest is on Criterion's The Thief of Bagdad - the more the man sounds to me like Cheech from Cheech and Chong. It's inconceivable that he shouldn't know more about his own movies and movies in general than he appears to know. And when I think of the amount of work, thought, reflexion and research that went into a film like Bram Stoker's Dracula, my heart sinks at the thought that the man himself doesn't appear to know anything relevant about the subject, let alone that he could let his own film be totally obscured and destroyed by an inept transfer such as the last one of that film. Before you ask, no, I don't have anything to say about The Godfather. I find that film repellent.
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Old 06-13-08, 08:01 PM
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^Actually he sounds a lot like Chong and not Cheech.
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Old 06-13-08, 09:21 PM
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Coppola was also the same guy who last year tore three of his contemporaries (three which he directed, one to an Oscar), Pacino, De Niro, and Nicholson, a new one for outputting bad material and not being worthy. He later apologized, he had no right to rip on any of them. So what if 88 Minutes and Meet the Fockers suck? All four are legends, and who doesn't have a questionable entry to their filmography?
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Old 06-14-08, 02:08 AM
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Originally Posted by PatrickMcCart
Bottom line: If Coppola, Willis, and Harris can't be trusted with how the restorations turned out, who can? No one, especially office chair critics who have the delusion that a previous video release is the gospel truth on how the proper look should be.
Thank you!!

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Old 06-15-08, 07:23 AM
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Originally Posted by chris_sc77
^Actually he sounds a lot like Chong and not Cheech.
Although I will concede Coppola looks more like Chong than Cheech, Chong the public speaker usually comes off looking like a Rhodes scholar compared to Coppola.




Last edited by baracine; 06-15-08 at 07:36 AM.
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Old 06-17-08, 11:26 AM
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Rumored date for the DVD and (YES) Blu-Ray is 09/23. Nothing from the Paramounts yet.
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Old 06-18-08, 05:54 PM
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Originally Posted by PatrickMcCart
If you can't trust the artist, you can't trust the art.
You're sadly mistaken. Art isn't about trust. It's not a bank.
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Old 06-30-08, 11:25 AM
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Godfather Restoration press release (arrives September 23, 2008)




HOLLYWOOD, CALIF. – More than three decades after they won the Academy Award® for Best Picture, director Francis Ford Coppola’s classic films The Godfather and The Godfather, Part II will once again be enjoyed by audiences as they originally were meant to be seen, thanks to a meticulous restoration by Paramount Pictures, overseen by Coppola himself. On September 23, 2008, both fully restored films will debut on DVD and Blu-ray, along with a newly remastered version of The Godfather Part III, to be included as part of The Godfather, The Coppola Restoration Collection. All three films will be available individually or in a five-DVD collection or four-disc Blu-ray collection, which are loaded with a host of all-new special features.

The Godfather and The Godfather, Part II underwent extensive frame-by-frame examination and restoration utilizing state-of-the-art digital technology in this historic preservation effort, which required more than a year to complete. Robert A. Harris of the Film Preserve supervised the restoration under the direction of Coppola and cinematographer, Gordon Willis. Harris’ restoration credits include Lawrence of Arabia, Spartacus, Vertigo and Rear Window among others.

The new special features created by Kim Aubry, founder of Zoetrope Aubry Productions, explores the complexities of the restoration process and provides new insights and perspectives about how the film almost didn’t come to pass as we know it. “The Masterpiece That Almost Wasn’t” relates the unlikely events, intrigue, allegiances and luck that put together the unknown director with the “unwanted” cast and contains interviews with most of the living players and many of the films’ admirers. Other featurettes include “…when the shooting stopped,” and “Godfather World,” which take a look at The Godfather’s influence on popular culture today. Each film includes a commentary by Coppola.

THE GODFATHER: The Coppola Restoration DVD Collection

The Godfather: The Coppola Restoration DVD Collection, enhanced for 16:9 TVs, with Dolby Digital English 5.1 Surround, French 5.1 Surround and English Mono (The Godfather and The Godfather, Part II) and English, French and Spanish subtitles.

The DVD disc breakdown is as follows:

Disc 1:
The Godfather feature film
**Commentary by director Francis Ford Coppola

Disc 2:
The Godfather, Part II feature film
**Commentary by director Francis Ford Coppola

Disc 3:
The Godfather, Part III feature film
**Commentary by director Francis Ford Coppola

Disc 4: (previously released special features)
- Making of The Godfather
- Additional Scenes
- Filming Locations
- The Corleone Family Tree
- The Music of The Godfather
- The Godfather Historical Timeline
- Profiles on the Filmmakers
- Photo Galleries and Storyboards

Disc 5: (new special features)
- Godfather World
- The Masterpiece That Almost Wasn’t
- …when the shooting stopped
- Emulsional Rescue Revealing The Godfather
- The Godfather on the Red Carpet
- Four Short Films on The Godfather
The Godfather vs. The Godfather, Part II
Cannoli
Riffing on the Riffing
Clemenza

THE GODFATHER: The Coppola Restoration Blu-ray Collection

THE GODFATHER: The Coppola Restoration Blu-ray four-disc set is presented in 1080p high definition with English 5.1 Dolby TrueHD, French 5.1 Dolby Digital, Spanish 5.1 Dolby Digital and English Mono (except The Godfather: Part III) and English, English SDH, French, Spanish and Portuguese subtitles. The following special features are presented in high definition as noted:

Disc 1:
The Godfather feature film
**Commentary by director Francis Ford Coppola

Disc 2:
The Godfather, Part II feature film
**Commentary by director Francis Ford Coppola

Disc 3:
The Godfather, Part III feature film
**Commentary by director Francis Ford Coppola

Disc 4:
* Godfather World (HD)
* The Masterpiece That Almost Wasn’t (HD)
* …when the shooting stopped (HD)
* Emulsional Rescue—Revealing The Godfather (HD)
* The Godfather on the Red Carpet (HD)
* Four Short Films on The Godfather
- The Godfather vs. The Godfather, Part II (HD)
- Cannoli (HD)
- Riffing on the Riffing (HD)
- Clemenza (HD)
* The Family Tree
* Crime Organization Chart
* Connie and Carlo’s Wedding Album

2001 DVD Archive:
* Behind the Scenes
o The Godfather Family: A Look Inside
o On Location
o Francis Coppola’s Notebook
o The Music of the Godfather
o Coppola & Puzo on Screenwriting
o Gordon Willis on Cinematography
o Storyboards from The Godfather, Part II
o Storyboards from The Godfather, Part III
o The Godfather Behind the Scenes 1971

* The Filmmakers
o Francis Ford Coppola
o Mario Puzo
o Gordon Willis
o Dean Tavoularis
o Nino Rota
o Carmine Coppola
* Additional Scenes
* Acclaim & Response
* Trailers (HD)
* Photo Gallery
* Rogues’ Gallery
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Old 06-30-08, 11:35 AM
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Looks nice, but I'll more than likely wait until I have a BR player before double dipping on this set.
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Old 06-30-08, 12:51 PM
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RAH on the remasters (from the HD subforum on the HTF):
http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htf/3397028-post24.html

I'm now able to speak a bit on the subject of The Godfather(s).

All restoration work was performed at 4k and 6k.

The data path through the entire system of WB's MPI facility never fell below 4k.

The HD master was created from the fully restored 4k data files.

The direction given from day one by both Mr. Coppola as well as Mr. Willis was that grain structure remain inviolable.

We did not tamper with or change the grain structure in any way, with the exception of bringing dupes into line with the look of the originals. This is transparent to the restoration.

Paramount Pictures, from post-production to the technical arena of home video, has been totally on board and exceptionally cooperative to this end. They have worked extremely hard with us toward the creation of what we all hope will be a perfect product.

The final result should be one of the most dynamic presentations of film yet seen in the video realm.

It has been our unified goal, especially in terms of overall resolution, grain structure and black levels which are, as designed, extremely deep, that the Blu-ray release be as close as humanly and technologically possible, to a virtual reproduction of the cinema experience.

The high definition master has been approved by everyone involved, and the resultant Blu-ray discs may well be the new gold standard by which home theater viewing systems will be judged, especially in the reproduction of Mr. Willis' shadows and blacks.

Hope this is helpful.

RAH
That pretty much closes the book on whether or not these will be faithful to the original look.
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