DVD Talk Forum

DVD Talk Forum (https://forum.dvdtalk.com/)
-   DVD Talk (https://forum.dvdtalk.com/dvd-talk-3/)
-   -   Should I watch the Superman movies in order? (https://forum.dvdtalk.com/dvd-talk/486380-should-i-watch-superman-movies-order.html)

DJ_Longfellow 12-12-06 07:14 AM

Should I watch the Superman movies in order?
 
Ok, I started to rent the HD version of the Superman movies, and stupid Blockbuster shipped Superman 2 first....sheesh. So, do I have to watch them in order or are they kinda like MI or Bond where you can just watch the movie as it is?

I never really seen any of them, only bits and pieces.

DVDFreaker 12-12-06 07:17 AM

Watch it in order

DJ_Longfellow 12-12-06 07:40 AM

Dang...well it looks like I'll be waiting since the original Superman HD is still Coming Soon....

Filmmaker 12-12-06 09:35 AM

Just for a second opinion, yes, definitely watch 1 and 2 in order. I'll leave it to you to decide whether or not to watch III and/or IV at all.

AJAX 12-12-06 09:41 AM

III and IV are stand-alones. But I, II, and Returns should be seen in this order.

rfduncan 12-12-06 10:15 AM


Originally Posted by AJAX
III and IV are stand-alones. But I, II, and Returns should be seen in this order.

Yep.

GuessWho 12-12-06 10:25 AM

Agreed.

1, 2, Returns


(skip 3 & 4)

dishpan 12-12-06 10:25 AM


Originally Posted by AJAX
III and IV are stand-alones. But I, II, and Returns should be seen in this order.


i would actually modify this a bit and say to watch
Superman the movie
Superman 2 the richard donner cut
Superman Returns
as the "superman trilogy" and in that order. skip the rest. you're in for treat!!!
dan

bboisvert 12-12-06 11:09 AM


Originally Posted by dishpan
i would actually modify this a bit and say to watch
Superman the movie
Superman 2 the richard donner cut
Superman Returns
as the "superman trilogy" and in that order. skip the rest. you're in for treat!!!
dan

While I enjoy the Donner cut for what it is (a curiosity) and am still shocked beyond belief that it ever happened... I'm not sure why you would intentionally place it in the "trilogy" instead of the theatrical version.

I can think of 2 things off the top of my head that are included in the Donner cut that make events in SR impossible. Maybe 3 things, depending on how you interpret the ending of the film (which has a pretty wobbily logic).

I see the Donner cut as an interesting "what if" experiment. But I don't see how it can replace the theatrical version in the grand scheme of things.

DJ_Longfellow 12-12-06 11:17 AM

Well, I think they shipped the Donner Cut, since it's the only one on HD-DVD, correct? I guess I can put that disc off to the side, or just watch it...who knows.

Shannon Nutt 12-12-06 11:48 AM


Originally Posted by bboisvert
I see the Donner cut as an interesting "what if" experiment. But I don't see how it can replace the theatrical version in the grand scheme of things.

I concur. Donner MAY have made a better movie had he been allowed to finish it in 1980, but as they currently are, Superman II: The Lester Cut is better than Superman II: The Donner Cut. If anything, finally seeing Donner's vision made me appriciate what Lester brought to the table even more (the Clark/Lois romance, the GREAT American flag flying sequence).

cisman 12-12-06 11:54 AM

I agree....watch I, II (non Donner), then Returns

Then go back and watch II Donner Cut for something different and 3 if you are bored and 4 if you deserve punishment.

dishpan 12-12-06 12:07 PM

if you base the superman returns plot off the superman 2 lester plot, it will make no sense. the donner cut is the prequel to superman returns.
and there is no way the lester cut is a better film than the donner cut. the new one is orders of magnitude better.

cactusoly 12-12-06 12:19 PM

I feel that an ultimate cut of Superman 2 would be great. Take the Lester film. Add all the "new" footage from the Donner cut (except the end). Remove the alternate scenes from the Lester version (Lois Jumps in the river, Kal El talking to Lara ect). Stir. Then you have the perfect version of Superman 2.

dishpan 12-12-06 12:23 PM


Originally Posted by cactusoly
I feel that an ultimate cut of Superman 2 would be great. Take the Lester film. Add all the "new" footage from the Donner cut (except the end). Remove the alternate scenes from the Lester version (Lois Jumps in the river, Kal El talking to Lara ect). Stir. Then you have the perfect version of Superman 2.


its so much more than that though. all the bad comedy is removed, as is the crazy fight stuff (throwing a giant cellophane s shield?). donner turned the 3 kryptonian villains from lame to badass.
dan

bboisvert 12-12-06 12:38 PM


Originally Posted by DJ_Longfellow
Well, I think they shipped the Donner Cut, since it's the only one on HD-DVD, correct? I guess I can put that disc off to the side, or just watch it...who knows.

Yes, the Donner cut is the only SII that's out on HD DVD (I decision I still find strange).


Ultimately, the answer to your question is that you should definitely see Superman I before Superman II (either version). They are two halves of a whole and I think you'll lose a lot by watching Part 2 first. All of the setup, characterization, and "weight" (for lack of a better term) of the story happens in the first film.

Superman III and IV pretty much stand on their own and are a pretty significant drop in quality over I + II. Watch them whenever -- or don't. No biggie either way.

Superman Returns was crafted as a direct sequel to the first two films. However, with a new cast and 25-year gap between filming, it isn't a rock-solid connection. Still, it follows the same origin story and look-and-feel of the Chris Reeve films, and it includes one particular signficant plot point from part II. You're better off watching that one 3rd, but keep in mind that there will be a few logical inconsistencies (especially w/the Donner version of II)

bboisvert 12-12-06 12:48 PM


Originally Posted by dishpan
if you base the superman returns plot off the superman 2 lester plot, it will make no sense. the donner cut is the prequel to superman returns.

Can you please provide even a scrap of evidence that Bryan Singer had even considered the Donner cut when putting together SR? That cut was nothing but a fanboy dream when Dougherty and Harris wrote the script.

How does SR "make no sense" when following the Lester plot? The only thing I can think of is

Spoiler:
Promising never to leave again... and then immediately taking off for a 5-year trip to Krypton.


With the Donner cut, you have the problems of:

Spoiler:
Jor-El returning after explicitly stating it was impossible.
The destruction of the Fortress of Solitude.

In addition, the whole 'turning back time' thing confuses matters. If he turned back time so that this stuff never happened, can Lois be pregnant? (Of course, if he turned back time, why does the bully in the diner recognize him... or is the Fortress still destroyed? etc. That whole plot device introduces a host of logical inconsistencies.)



Originally Posted by dishpan
and there is no way the lester cut is a better film than the donner cut. the new one is orders of magnitude better.

Well, that's your opinion, and I certainly respect that.

Mine? The Donner cut might have turned out to be orders of magnitude better if it were actually completed in 1980. However, the cut-and-paste job we're stuck with now is not a superior end product (even if certain individual parts do work better).

And it makes me appreciate some of the things that Lester brought to the table. The Donner cut actually suffers with some of the Lester stuff removed.

dishpan 12-12-06 01:17 PM


Originally Posted by bboisvert
Can you please provide even a scrap of evidence that Bryan Singer had even considered the Donner cut when putting together SR? That cut was nothing but a fanboy dream when Dougherty and Harris wrote the script.

I've actually read it specifically in an article. I'll try and find it for you.
Dan

edit: maybe it was based on the dick donner superman 2 script?

Red Dog 12-12-06 01:27 PM


Originally Posted by GuessWho
Agreed.

1, 2, Returns


(skip 3 & 4)


:thumbsup:

Red Dog 12-12-06 01:30 PM


Originally Posted by cisman
I agree....watch I, II (non Donner), then Returns

Then go back and watch II Donner Cut for something different and 3 if you are bored and 4 if you deserve punishment.


:thumbsup::thumbsup:

JACOB 12-12-06 01:40 PM

I would recommend that you watch the lester cut before you watch the donner version. the donner version is like a whole new movie.

Jacob

bboisvert 12-12-06 01:41 PM


Originally Posted by dishpan
edit: maybe it was based on the dick donner superman 2 script?

Putting aside the unusual approach of basing your movie on an unproduced script rather than the produced film, I would ask... in what way would it be "based on" that? The only specific aspect of SII that makes it into SR is

Spoiler:
SuperKid


That plot device is present in both versions.


The Donner cut includes the things I've listed that contradict SR (including an ending that may contradict the item I put in a spoiler above).

You said that the Lester cut "makes no sense" as a film prior to SR. What do you mean?

JACOB 12-12-06 04:03 PM

there is a 1977 script of superman 2. It was written by tom M. they used that script for the donner cut of superman 2.
its online.

Jacob

LordStaxxus 12-13-06 12:47 AM


Originally Posted by dishpan
I've actually read it specifically in an article. I'll try and find it for you.

I seem to recall the writers of Returns said they rewatched none of the old movies at all.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:26 PM.


Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.