DVD Talk Forum

DVD Talk Forum (https://forum.dvdtalk.com/)
-   DVD Talk (https://forum.dvdtalk.com/dvd-talk-3/)
-   -   Police raid Michigan comic convention, shut down DVD bootlegs (https://forum.dvdtalk.com/dvd-talk/466078-police-raid-michigan-comic-convention-shut-down-dvd-bootlegs.html)

sracer 05-22-06 08:08 PM


Originally Posted by wewantflair
Permissibility is an opportunity, not a motive. We don't do things because they are permissible, because that would imply that we would do everything that was permissible, which is simply ludicrous on face value.

well then your whole "I want to = sense of entitlement" position is nothing more than flamebait. Because the motive for buying officially released DVDs is because we want to. :rolleyes:

boe 05-22-06 08:51 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peep
I've lived in Los Angeles for about 10 years now and have never actually seen a police officer give out a parking ticket.

I don't know if the people giving out tickets are actually elves but I guarantee if you park your car downtown, in santa monica, marina del rey, culver city, westwood... for 10 minutes any place that has metered parking or no parking between certain hours you'll magically have a ticket.


Originally Posted by TomOpus
I've never seen someone murder another person... but I hear it happens from time to time. :D

Yeah but in LA there is no profit in that type of crime so while they catch thousands of people who park their car illegally every day they rarely catch any killers. Why would they want to - if they did, the money to lock them up comes from the budget which pays their raises every year.

calhoun07 05-22-06 08:52 PM


Originally Posted by sracer
well then your whole "I want to = sense of entitlement" position is nothing more than flamebait. Because the motive for buying officially released DVDs is because we want to. :rolleyes:

Isn't the main motive behind a lot of things we buy them because we want them? Did you buy your car due to a sense of entitlement? Or get it "tricked out" with extra stuff the dealer didn't include because you felt entitled to have a nicer car? Or do you make a special trip to a certain store to get something you can't get at your usual store because you feel entitled to have that specific item, whether it be a favorite food, a article of clothing, a favorite drink, what have you? I guess I don't understand where these people come up with sense of entitlement BS. Perhaps it's from their sense of entitlement that they feel they need to put down people they think are lesser than them.

nodeerforamonth 05-23-06 01:25 AM


Originally Posted by TomOpus
Please elaborate about how laws aren't enforced, because I'd like to disagree.

Also explain what happened to the bootleg table that was removed at last year's Comic-Con. Oh, they must've sold out in 3 hours and left, right?

I've driven past cops at 80mph. Never stopped me. I see people do it all the time too.

I see people driving with cell phones weaving all over the road. In front of cops. Never pulled over. I even saw a guy brushing his teeth while driving once. Constantly see women putting on makeup while driving 65mph down the freeway. Never see them pulled over.

Regarding getting away with murder if you're a celebrity? I refer to exhibit A: OJ Simpson. exhibit B: Robert Blake.

Had my car broken into half a dozen times. Even if the cops show up (IF), you're lucky if they even fill out a report.

Regarding the border? You've obviously haven't read the news lately. Nor are you from CA. The border is not enforced. People who hire illegals are not fined. Illegal aliens are allowed to roam free.

It's anarchy in CA.

What bootleg table at the Comic-Con were you talking about? I didn't hear of anyone getting their tables removed. And I've gone every day for every year for the past 10+ years.

JM1 05-23-06 07:59 AM

I dunno if it's still the same, but in 2003 I went to see the 2nd Matrix movie (or was it the third? It was November of that year anyway) in the Loews theatre on 42nd St in NY, and on coming out of the theatre after the movie the street traders right outside the cinema were selling boots of the movie as you came out of the theatre! Right outside the damn theatre, in the middle of NY!

Fok 05-23-06 04:40 PM

In all the Asian malls around here they have stores that just sell bootlegs. Not quite sure why the police haven't shut them down.

Class316 05-23-06 06:10 PM

What sad news :(

Cameron 08-09-06 04:12 AM

anybody ever get the story on what became of all this

MovieExchange 08-09-06 05:20 AM


Originally Posted by Cameron
anybody ever get the story on what became of all this

Just what I posted. The cops raided the place on Friday, arresting between 14 and 17 people. Most of the dealers were released that day and were back at the convention on Saturday, selling their legal (and bootleg Japanese) wares. The convention organizers released the expected statement of "oh, we didn't know that these were illegal." Which is total bullshit, of course, but can't be proven.

The prevailing theory amongst dealers at the convention was that the convention organizers reported the dealers, out of fear of being held responsible if they did nothing and a raid still occured.

toddly6666 08-09-06 09:00 AM

well, we all learned what the moral of this story is:
Don't ever sell bootleg dvds of The Green Hornet, Bionic 6, M.A.S.K. and Witchblade TV series, because it's just pure evil and wrong.

JCWBobC 08-09-06 10:08 AM

The same thing happened at the Chiller Convention back on 1994 or 1995. Someone bought a bootleg tape that was horrible quality and decided to complain to the police or FBI about it. We stood in line for about 2 hours because they showed up and confiscated all the bootleg tapes people were selling. We didn't see anyone get arrested but it sucked that we had nothing to buy as this was the only way we could get the impossible to find stuff. We didn't know about the internet and their was no Ebay back then. Of course the next year things were back to normal but vendors weren't as open about selling things that weren't official releases.

I probably spent about $500-$1,000 in the early 90's buying tapes at conventions that I would not have been able to find anywhere else or weren't released commercially in the US. I remember copies of the Street Fighter animated movie selling for $25 a tape with no subtitles, because it was the only way to get it, and the guy sold out all 3 days. Nobody cared that it was a bootleg/pirated copy or that it would come out officially in 6 months to a year. They wanted it now(then) and they would pay the high price to have it.

DavidH 08-09-06 12:08 PM


Originally Posted by MasterCXtreme
Michigan cops are dicks. And that's no threadcrap people, that's a fact.

True. In addition, it's become very apparent to me many of them spend 40 hours a week passing out speeding tickets -- often times ILLEGALLY parking on private property (i.e., citizen driveways) to do so. I can't tell you how often I and other people I talk to see this happen. If this is how Police are going to be used, then let's CUT funding to send a message.

calhoun07 08-09-06 07:44 PM


Originally Posted by toddly6666
well, we all learned what the moral of this story is:
Don't ever sell bootleg dvds of The Green Hornet, Bionic 6, M.A.S.K. and Witchblade TV series, because it's just pure evil and wrong.

And God will kill a puppy if you do it.

Brent L 11-12-06 07:14 PM

I went to the Anderson Jockey Lot this morning, and I found a table outside with tons of brand new DVDs for 3 for $25. At first I was just scanning the section, not really looking all that close. The I saw that they had Song of the South on DVD, but didn't think too much of it since I've seen tons of sellers who deal with legit DVDs offering that exact same DVD. Then, as I noticed they had sealed copies of Beauty and the Beast: PE and picked them up in a mad rush to possibly buy them, I instantly could tell that they were not only bootlegs, but every single DVD that they had for sale was a fake. They had hundreds and hundreds of DVDs, all bootlegs, all the way from random older flicks to new releases to almost ever Disney film ever.

When I saw who they were, I recognized them. Years ago I bought the Lisa Marie Presley CD from them, sealed, and it ended up being a bootleg also. Back then I went back to them and demanded my money back since it was an obvious fake once you opened it, and the excuse they gave me was that they had nooooooooooo idea it was a fake.

Uh huh, sure.

The couple seems to be in their 60's or so, and I'm told that they are there every Saturday and Sunday. How they continue to get away with this, I'll never know.

I was going to post this in a thread I started back in 2003:

http://forum.dvdtalk.com/showthread.php?t=304892

But I noticed that it has been moved to the Archive folder.

It just really pissed me off, just as it always does, seeing so many people buying bootlegs when most of them think they are getting a great deal on legit items. I know that some people don't care, but I know that many of the people are buying from them because they don't even expect them to be fake at all.

The Infidel 11-12-06 07:34 PM

Did you call the cops?

Brent L 11-12-06 07:36 PM

No, I've never seen any results from doing that in the past.

calhoun07 11-12-06 11:09 PM

Did you pee in their butts?

The Valeyard 11-12-06 11:58 PM


Originally Posted by calhoun07
Did you pee in their butts?


rotfl

Brent L 11-13-06 12:35 AM


Originally Posted by calhoun07
Did you pee in their butts?

I tried but then they called the cops on me instead!

Call the cops on someone selling bootleg DVDs at a flea market and they wont do anything, but the bootleggers makes one complaint about attempted anal urination and they come running.

Deadpool 11-13-06 10:20 AM


Originally Posted by calhoun07
Did you pee in their butts?

:lol:

Must be a slow day at The Otter Farm today...

There's no new 'humans molesting animal' stories out :D

mxv 11-13-06 10:39 AM

I used to go to a lot of Record shows and as time progressed, there were less and less dealers selling vinyl and more and more selling bootleg videos and CDs. One time I get to the show and the doors are locked and there is cop cars everywhere. The cops came and shut down the show and arrested a bunch of the dealers for selling bootlegs. I hoped that it meant there would be less of them in future shows but all it meant was the dealers stopped coming and the shows were sparse until a few months later when their bravery returned. Eventually I stopped going because it was a big waste of time to go looking for anything but bootlegs.

That long winded tale was a lead-in to say that I'm surprised it took this long to have something like this happen and while you can aruge the merits of bootlegs all day, it is the law and selling them is illegal. Personally I have no problem with people swapping such things with each other in an attempt to get things on a DVD they can't just go out and buy, but I am against the people who sell and profit off these things when they had nothing to do with creating the stuff and the people who do get nothing.

Mike Adams 11-13-06 03:10 PM


Originally Posted by mxv
Personally I have no problem with people swapping such things with each other in an attempt to get things on a DVD they can't just go out and buy, but I am against the people who sell and profit off these things when they had nothing to do with creating the stuff and the people who do get nothing.

Well said. It would really bother me if I went to a record show expecting to buy... you know... RECORDS, and every table was full of bootlegs instead. That said, I go to a 3-day comic show every year, and if it weren't for the bootleg DVDs, I'd go nuts because I'm not that much of a comic fan. Still, I can see that true comic fans would be really pissed if they came to buy comics and there were more bootleggers than comic book dealers.

I know a lot of people look at this as a black-and-white issue, but if I may, let me point out the things that REALLY annoy me:

1) Dealers who are selling bootleg DVD-Rs of movies currently in theaters that you know DAMN WELL will be on DVD inside of six months.
2) Dealers who keep selling DVD-R bootlegs of cartoons that have either already been released, or are going to be released the following week.
3) Dealers who keep selling "complete collections" of a six-season cartoon show where seasons 1-4 have already been released, the latest of which was a very recent release, so you know seasons 5 and 6 are coming (I'm not talking about anything specific, but that situation happens often).

With so much stuff that's yet to appear on DVD, it would be in everybody's best interest for bootleggers to stick to stuff you actually can't get any other way. Unfortunately, the "pirates" who are just after easy money know that Disney titles sell well and the people buying them are the least likely to know or care that they're getting a bootleg.

MovieExchange 11-13-06 06:00 PM


Originally Posted by BrentLumkin
No, I've never seen any results from doing that in the past.

I've often wondered what the result would be if a customer were to just start opening the items and destroying the discs. What are they going to do, sue you? Sure, take a person to court and tell a judge that you're suing them for destroying bootlegs that you were trying to sell.

zombiezilla 11-13-06 07:46 PM

I don't sell them, but if I did, my reply to you would be: that would be a good way to get your ass kicked in the most heinous way I could possibly imagine. Your wrists would be broken by the time you got to the 3rd disc or so. Take me to court...from a wheelchair. If you don't like 'em, don't buy 'em.

But I'll buy them, and I like them (and I don't copy & re-sell them). Don't stop me from enjoying the stuff.

Christ, bunch fuckin' Nazis out there.

Xbox69 11-13-06 07:56 PM


Originally Posted by MovieExchange
I've often wondered what the result would be if a customer were to just start opening the items and destroying the discs. What are they going to do, sue you? Sure, take a person to court and tell a judge that you're suing them for destroying bootlegs that you were trying to sell.

How about getting a custom made T-shirt (preferrably black with white lettering) emblazoned with the words, These Discs Are Bootlegs!!. Walk up and just browse not uttering a single word. ;) Hey, pair up with a buddy and take shifts. I wonder how many customers they'd get then.

Have the lettering on Front & Back for maximum effect.

JMG 11-13-06 08:06 PM


Originally Posted by Xbox69
How about getting a custom made T-shirt (preferrably black with white lettering) emblazoned with the words, These Discs Are Bootlegs!!. Walk up and just browse not uttering a single word. ;) Hey, pair up with a buddy and take shifts. I wonder how many customers they'd get then.

Have the lettering on Front & Back for maximum effect.



:lol:








don't forget to wear a richard nixon mask.

zombiezilla 11-13-06 08:42 PM

Damn, don't you think that everyone who buys every Beatle bootleg that comes out already has the entire catalogue of legit stuff, and simply wants MORE? And even when/if the stuff were to come out eventually on a legit label, they'd buy those too? KISS just got me to shitcan a great deal of bootleg VHS stuff that I'd kept for years when they released KISSOLOGY, Vol. 1; I gave one of the tapes to a friend who's a casual fan, the rest were tossed. Who needs 'em? They're available from a legit source! THAT IS ALL THAT WE, THE FANS, WANT...AND DEMAND. If we can't get the 1960's Marvel Comics Cartoons we want from Wal-Mart (or Best Buy, or Circuit City, etc.), but they're available from a bootleg seller at the local comic-con, so be it. Leave people the hell alone to enjoy what they want.

I do not condone the pirating of items that are already out, or have a date announced, or even have someone from their camp who says that they're "coming out soon!" But, shit, I like early stuff by Cheap Trick. I own a DVD of at least one show from each of their first 10 tours. And compilations of TV appearances from each year. But I own all the legit stuff the group released from that time period as well. Who does this harm, considering that were CT to release "CheapTrick-ology, Vol.1" which included any of this stuff (not necessarily all of it), that all of their fans would buy this?!?!?

People need to get over themselves, for Christ's sake.

zombiezilla 11-13-06 08:45 PM


Originally Posted by Xbox69
How about getting a custom made T-shirt (preferrably black with white lettering) emblazoned with the words, These Discs Are Bootlegs!!. Walk up and just browse not uttering a single word. ;) Hey, pair up with a buddy and take shifts. I wonder how many customers they'd get then. Have the lettering on Front & Back for maximum effect.


You apparently don't get it; WE KNOW THEY'RE BOOTLEGS, that's why we buy 'em. You could give out FREE fucking shirts, and not one person would care, except maybe people you dragged out to the show with you.

Cameron 11-13-06 08:47 PM

i doubt that most people who buy bootlegs don't know any better....most just don't care (including myself) i'm not going to pay good money for things readily available through the regular channels, but I have/will buy stuff that I can't get my hands on, and never will.

Star Wars Holiday Special
Song of the south
monster squad
night of the comet
the wonder years
batman (adam west)
zatoichi 14
halloween 6 producers cut
Corman's fantastic four
BraveStarr
Futureworld

all of which are not available in the public market. If they ever become available I would love to replace the sub par boots with a regular dvd, but until then I'll hold on to what i have. The only way to curb bootlegging is to make the titles available. Every convention i have ever been to had Star Wars bootleg dvds until the newest edition came out...since then, they have all but dissapeared.

I don't understand people who pay for videocamera copied boots of new movies still in theater, or readily available series...but honestly I don't see much of that, other than the guys selling off the old stock at a discounted price

zombiezilla 11-13-06 08:47 PM

Another good example; I have owned/currently own every Godzilla movie currently released in R1 (and many from other regions). But I also own a large selection of Godzilla bootlegs as well (thank Gawd for eBay!).

Brent L 11-13-06 08:53 PM

I'm ok with people buying that type of stuff and I understand it perfectly. Heck, I've downloaded all sorts of unreleased stuff over the years. The bootleggers that piss me off are those who have sealed DVDs of various popular titles and new releases and Disney stuff and come across as legit to the average consumer who just happens to walk by, like at a flea market or a jockey lot. To many, they wont even know that they aren't buying the real thing, and for many of those people they actually do care and feel cheated when they eventually find out, or they're told, that what they actually bought was a bootleg from a goof.

I've actually let people know that they are looking at bootlegs in situations like that, and they thanked me and didn't buy anything from them.

Brooklyn 11-13-06 09:01 PM


Originally Posted by zombiezilla
Another good example; I have owned/currently own every Godzilla movie currently released in R1 (and many from other regions). But I also own a large selection of Godzilla bootlegs as well (thank Gawd for eBay!).

How is that a good example? Just because YOU would replace a bootleg with a
legit release doesn't mean everyone else would. There are far too many folks
that are happy to just stick with the boot.

zombiezilla 11-13-06 09:34 PM

I doubt that highly. Every fan I know personally, of every genre that I know, would CHEERFULLY replace their old boots with legit releases, were they to become available. We are the norm, NOT the exception. Just ask around; you'll find out I'm right!

A possible exception would be that if the actual source material sucked so bad on the boot (and was from a near-original source), that no one gave a shit about getting a legit release. Example: Van Halen live in Argentina, 1982. I own the bootleg VHS; their performances are so bad, it's no wonder this'll never see the light of day legitimately, and I'd probably pass if it did.

Brooklyn 11-13-06 09:52 PM


Originally Posted by zombiezilla
I doubt that highly. Every fan I know personally, of every genre that I know, would CHEERFULLY replace their old boots with legit releases, were they to become available. We are the norm, NOT the exception. Just ask around; you'll find out I'm right!

Doubt all you want, I can cite the exact opposite whereby those I know have
stated (and shown) that they wouldn't/won't replace their boots with legit
releases. Why pay for something they already have when that money could
go towards something they couldn't download is a common reason. I'm not
saying you yourself, nor your friends wouldn't, but to say that that's the norm?
No way.

MovieExchange 11-13-06 10:19 PM


Originally Posted by zombiezilla
I don't sell them, but if I did, my reply to you would be: that would be a good way to get your ass kicked in the most heinous way I could possibly imagine. Your wrists would be broken by the time you got to the 3rd disc or so. Take me to court...from a wheelchair. If you don't like 'em, don't buy 'em.

But I'll buy them, and I like them (and I don't copy & re-sell them). Don't stop me from enjoying the stuff.

Christ, bunch fuckin' Nazis out there.


You, my friend, have a severe mental problem.

Lighten up, Francis.

turborobb 11-14-06 04:19 AM

We have two big comic/sci fi/collectors shows here in Orlando every year, the FX Show in January and Megacon in Febuary. Last year there were tons of bootleg DVD people at both shows. Bootlegs of the new Doctor Who and Battlestar Galactica were big sellers last year. I picked up a lot of rare stuff myself... I love classic cheesy sci fi TV and got Voyagers!, Automan, Star Maidens, Otherworld, the Man from Atlantis, Jason of Star Command, Fantastic Journey, old WCW Monday Nitros and various sci fi movies that you can't buy on offical DVD. I don't mind fans trading rare material that will most likely never be released on DVD or even charging a small price for thier time to make it, but the thing I don't understand is how much they want for the stuff, I know a booth can cost a lot of money at these shows, but $20 of the Star Wars holiday special or $30, $40, $50, $60 for a bootleg season set that you copied on your computer last week? come on.

I've thought about running off my own copies of these TV shows, printing up some fancy covers, getting a booth at the next con and undercutting all the bootlegers 50% or more.

At the cons, I always look around on Saturday and find what I want and offer a silly low price, (I'll give you $20 for this DVD set you have priced $50) they always laugh and say no, but when I come back at the last minute sunday night they always take me up on the offer.

I also love how the bootleg covers are made to look like R2 or Imports, like they are fooling anyone.

zombiezilla 11-14-06 06:13 AM


Originally Posted by MovieExchange
You, my friend, have a severe mental problem.
Lighten up, Francis.


No, it's you with the problem. Come up to a sales booth at a show and commit a violent act in view of the seller and you'll get an immediate and violent response...as you should, were you to do something so stupid.

I've beaten a man's ass more than once for kicking a dog. If people that like to kick dogs knew that someone like me was gonna be right behind them, watching, waiting for them to kick that dog so that their face could be ground up, maybe there'd be less cruelty to animals.

Grow up, Francis.

Brooklyn 11-14-06 07:16 AM


Originally Posted by zombiezilla
No, it's you with the problem. Come up to a sales booth at a show and commit a violent act in view of the seller and you'll get an immediate and violent response...as you should, were you to do something so stupid.

I've beaten a man's ass more than once for kicking a dog. If people that like to kick dogs knew that someone like me was gonna be right behind them, watching, waiting for them to kick that dog so that their face could be ground up, maybe there'd be less cruelty to animals.

Grow up, Francis.

I can understand the sympathy for a dog, but the way you stated your
feelings don't exactly help prove him wrong. As for the DVDs, they're an
inanimate object and taking a few bucks away from a bootlegger who
has no right selling the discs to begin with in no way compares to the
(defenseless) animal cruelty comparison.

scarredgod 11-14-06 08:54 AM

first of all, i am a bootleg buyer, of rare or unreleased stuff...BUT it would be nice to to a convention and find legit DVDs from other regions. the Pittsburgh Comicon and Monster Bash are both filled with bootleg dealers, no one legit.

i would love to see a company like Xploited Cinema set up a booth at one of these cons, but why would they? they would be selling a legit R3 DVD for 35 bucks and a dealer across from him would have a burned copy of the same DVD for 20 bucks, 3 for 50.

MovieExchange 11-14-06 11:36 AM


Originally Posted by zombiezilla
Grow up, Francis.


Sounds like you should take your own advice... you're the one playing the role of "I'm going to beat your ass, I'm the internet tough guy."

When you can stop fantasizing about how much of a tough guy you are and can act like an adult and have a mature conversation, check back in with me, ok?


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:42 PM.


Copyright © 2022 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.