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HD-DVD replacing DVD discussion [merge of a couple of threads - yet again]

DVD Talk Talk about DVDs and Movies on DVD including Covers and Cases

HD-DVD replacing DVD discussion [merge of a couple of threads - yet again]

Old 01-03-06, 01:55 PM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by DthRdrX
VHS was a lot closer quality wise to dvd than Dvd is to HD-dvd. This is fact.

Comparisons
Booyah! Tell em DTH!

You know what this reminds me of? Me.

In 1997, I was freaking out because i was 19. I had about 40-50 laserdiscs which I had spent all my hard earned extra money on and I didn't believe that this shiny little disc would catch on. I used to say the exact same things that everyone else is saying about an HD format. It won't last. People won't care. BOY was I wrong. HD is here to stay. HD is the next format whether you like it or not.
DVD was foreplay for people who were wanting quality in their homes. HD is the fuck of the year. Proof? I know people who don't have a helluva lot of money who are shelling it out for HD TV's and can't wait to get a plasma. And again, there's a huge difference (both video and audio) between DVD and a HD DVD format. Hell, I see a huge difference with broadcast HD and that is WORSE than a pre-recorded HD format will look.

Suck it up, kids. HD is here to stay. Be happy with your DVD's or trade up, it's your decision. But HD is where broadcast is going and it's the way the pre-recorded medium is gonig as well.
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Old 01-03-06, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by darkshadowdog
I'm sticking to my dvds until a large improvment comes along. I'm not really a picture/sound quality freak... I mean sure I don't buy VHS anymore but the quality between VHS and DVD was such a huge jump... Nothing compared to DVD and HD....
See the link above. You're wrong.

And you say "a large improvement" but then you say you're not a picture and sound quality freak. So which is it? If you don't care, then why aren't you still with VHS?
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Old 01-03-06, 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted by darkshadowdog
I'm sticking to my dvds until a large improvment comes along. I'm not really a picture/sound quality freak... I mean sure I don't buy VHS anymore but the quality between VHS and DVD was such a huge jump... Nothing compared to DVD and HD....
You're right, its much greater from DVD to HD than it was from VHS to DVD. DVD has double the horizontal lines of VHS. HD has quadruple the number of horizontal lines as DVD. When you look at number of pixels, its rediculous.

DVD: 307,200 (640x480)
HD: 2,073,600 (1920x1080)
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Old 01-03-06, 02:04 PM
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Its not like everything you have on DVD will suddenly be available on HD. That will take years just like it did for VHS to DVD (and even now there are VHS films that still havent made the jump to DVD).

Until that day DVD is not obsolete.
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Old 01-03-06, 02:07 PM
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Originally Posted by joshd2012
You're right, its much greater from DVD to HD than it was from VHS to DVD. DVD has double the horizontal lines of VHS. HD has quadruple the number of horizontal lines as DVD. When you look at number of pixels, its rediculous.

DVD: 307,200 (640x480)
HD: 2,073,600 (1920x1080)
Actually...DVD is 720x480.
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Old 01-03-06, 02:07 PM
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Anyone know what the cases will actually look like? I hope we can at least put them with our regular dvd cases
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Old 01-03-06, 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted by marcellusk
Anyone know what the cases will actually look like? I hope we can at least put them with our regular dvd cases
No one knows yet. No one has seen packaging.

Problem is that they're going to have to do something to signify the difference. They don't want people to get confused. Unfortunately, I think we'll see something similar but not exactly the same.
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Old 01-03-06, 02:12 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by scott1598
i would really hate if my collection became obsolete and i don't think i have it in me to start again
Not in the least.

Ignore the hype and vaporware. I intend to get at least five more years out of my dvds before even considering upgrading. I will only upgrade if there is a single format with backward compatability.

Even then as long as I have a working dvd player I could care less what the industry tries to sell. My advice for you would be to ignore them too!
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Old 01-03-06, 02:24 PM
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I think a lot of this is also depending on what *you*, as the consumer, want out of your movie watching experience.

Personally, I know that HD will probably be bigger and better. But for me, standard DVD right now is a great experience on its own and I will not dump my library just because something new is on the horizon.

I'm quite content with the way things are. Sure, they will change over time, but new players will be backwards compatible.
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Old 01-03-06, 02:32 PM
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I'm figuring that as prices drop on players, SD DVD ONLY players will be phased out and HD/SD DVD players will move in. Thus, you'll already have the players capable of playing the movies and it'll be A LOT easier for people to deal with.
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Old 01-03-06, 03:05 PM
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Until HD-DVD players are < $200, I'm not even going to buy one.
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Old 01-03-06, 03:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Damed
Until HD-DVD players are < $200, I'm not even going to buy one.
Yeah.


The HD sub-forum can't come quick enough.
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Old 01-03-06, 03:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Damed
Until HD-DVD players are < $200, I'm not even going to buy one.
Ditto.

Not being a videophile, and really not caring much what my movies look like period as long as the picture is clear and in OAR, I'm in no rush and not willing to spend much on a new player.

I'll eventually get one since they're backwards compatible and will start buying new releases in HD when the players are cheap and the HD DVDs are the same price as regular DVDs are now.
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Old 01-03-06, 03:27 PM
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So you don't care about video or audio quality but you want it to be clear?

Yeah. That makes sense.
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Old 01-03-06, 03:34 PM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by evilninjax
I'm waiting with bated breath, but much of the DRM is going to kill my intrest in it.

DVDs look good on my 50" DLP, but HD looks better.. muhc better.

And if you want to see the difference for yourself, check out standard 480p v 720p v 1080p on your computer. x264 encoded 1080p looks beateous on my AMD x2 4800+.

Check out quicktime.com and look at the movie trailers. You can often get 720p and 1080p and compare to the "normal" resolutoins.

it's worth it (to me) to upgrade to HD components. But there are all sorts of weird issues right now. WIll BR output 1080p? Ok, then don't all 1080p tv sets tale 1080p IN?!

it's a hardware mess right now and for the next couple of years. There's no way DVD is going anywehre soon.

-goro-
Great post. This pretty much mirrors my sentiments. I would love to have HD movies but the facist DRM schemes may make me a "non customer" especially since my set has no HDMI or DVI. If they came out and just made these as compatible and the discs priced to move like DVD then it would be very successful earlier. As it stands with current plans, the adoption of this new medium will be much slower.

And finally, CD to HDCD is not at all equal to DVD to HDDVD. The difference is much more staggering. Apples and innertubes.
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Old 01-03-06, 03:39 PM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by Mr. Cinema
Ya, but the difference in audio/video quality between dvd and vhs was enormous.
Absolutely, undisputibly, mathematically untrue. The increase in resolution in the change from DVD to HDDVD is magnitudes greater than the VHS- DVD transition. This is not a valid argument at all.

Plus, vhs wasn't packed with special features...what dvd offered was a new thing.
This is correct. The change won't be the paradigm shift that occured from VHS to DVD. It will be a slower more gradual transition, sort of like the launch of the next genertion of video game hardware, except a bit slower.
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Old 01-03-06, 03:44 PM
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This reminds me of the good old days when Rebel Assault came out for PC CD-ROM. We drooled over the quality of the "movie footage" in the game. Fast forward and that game looks like a stinking pile next to any digital video footage on any game CD or DVD.

DFNYC is absolutely right in every post he has made here.
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Old 01-03-06, 03:45 PM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by Qui Gon Jim
Absolutely, undisputibly, mathematically untrue.
Mathematically, sure, but you can make the 'law of diminishing returns' argument, I suppose.

I can see and appreciate the difference between DVD and HD resolutions, but there are moments when a really nice looking DVD could fool me into thinking it was HD. Whenever I go back and pop in a VHS, there's no way I could ever confuse that with anything but a public domain-grade DVD.
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Old 01-03-06, 03:52 PM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by Adam Tyner
I can see and appreciate the difference between DVD and HD resolutions, but there are moments when a really nice looking DVD could fool me into thinking it was HD.
I ask you: do you currently own an HDTV? And if so, do you consistantly watch HD material? I'm highly doubting both because if you did, you would never be fooled.

Don't get me wrong. DVD's can look really great. But compared to a high definition format, they become "really good" as opposed to excellent. HD is so clear it's practically 3D to some people. THAT is the future of home theater.

Unfortunately, I smell sour grapes around here for quite some time until the price drops and then alluvasudden all the DVD-6-packs will come around saying "wow! HD is the way to go! Isn't it amazing!?!? SO much better than regular DVD! How did we watch that?"
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Old 01-03-06, 03:56 PM
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Ok, I think I can make the argument that DVD from VHS at least "seems" like a bigger quality jump than dvd to hd-dvd... Its like VHS was low quality, DVD was high quality, HD-DVD is going to be Higher quality. What i'm saying is that I can settle with high quality. I don't need the best of the best. Why buy a Ferrari when a Honda can get you where you want to go?
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Old 01-03-06, 04:07 PM
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Originally Posted by digitalfreaknyc
I ask you: do you currently own an HDTV? And if so, do you consistantly watch HD material? I'm highly doubting both because if you did, you would never be fooled.
I have two HDTVs, actually -- a 36" VVega (KD-36XS955) and a 50" plasma (a Panasonic TH-50PX50U), both adjusted with Avia.

With the exception of Battlestar Galactica on Sci-Fi and Veronica Mars on my HD-less UPN affiliate, every moment of network/cable programming I regularly watch is in high-definition. I've watched exactly 100 movies in high-definition in the past year and change, excluding miniseries, feature length pilots, etc.

Don't lump me in with the rest of the doubtful crowd. I'm psychotic enough about image quality that I plan on buying into both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray the moment they're available, even if the players are a grand each. I obviously wouldn't do that if I couldn't see and appreciate the difference. Still, the difference between VHS and DVD was so stark that I cannot watch VHS anymore. I very much prefer HD, but it's not a 'dealbreaker' in the way that DVD killed VHS for me.

Yes, there are moments on particularly well-done DVDs (Batman Begins, for instance) where if I'd walked in the room, sat down on my couch eight feet from the set, and didn't pay attention to the which set-top box had an incrementing counter, I could easily be fooled into thinking it was HD. Emphasis on the word 'moments'. Don't mistake that as me saying I couldn't tell the difference in an A/B comparison or that the best DVDs match with the best HD.
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Old 01-03-06, 04:09 PM
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It only "seems" that way because there were added conveniences that went along with DVD that you never had with DVD. As a laserdisc person, I never experienced this massive leap.
To continue with your analogy, why settle? If the Ferrari is only a little bit more money than the Honda (which a HD format eventually will be), and the quality is THAT much better, then why not have it? I mean, eventually they WILL stop making the Honda's and luckily, you'll be "stuck" with Ferrari's.
And just think about all those DVD's that you were buying when you could've already been buying the HD alternative.
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Old 01-03-06, 04:13 PM
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Widespread adoption of HD requires consumers to buy two pieces of equipment most people do not have at this moment - HDTVS and HD players. And even within HDTV's there is a question of which TVs should be bought for maximium compatibility.

DVDs of course only required one piece of equipment - DVD players, which became ridiciously cheap very quickly. Just plug and play with the old TV.

Besides the fact we are not sure which format will become the universal standard on HD players, I'm not sure that the cheapo manafacturers will be able to produce HD DVD players due to all the DRM issues surronding both formats. I'm sure it will eventually happen, but who knows.

Secondly, for all those people spouting mathematical formulations to prove their point, well, you are entitled to your opinions but for the majority of the population out there, DVDs allowed people to see much better pictures with their existing televisions. Thats not the case for HD-DVD, so the "Wow, that looks a hell of a lot better" opinion of DVD to VHS comparisions will have to wait.

In my opinion, HD-DVD will be a relatively niche market until conventional TV's are replaced by HDTVS - say 3-5 more years.
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Old 01-03-06, 04:17 PM
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Originally Posted by digitalfreaknyc
If the Ferrari is only a little bit more money than the Honda (which a HD format eventually will be), and the quality is THAT much better, then why not have it? I mean, eventually they WILL stop making the Honda's and luckily, you'll be "stuck" with Ferrari's.
i have a Honda and I love it...so what's wrong with that? They will not stop making Honda's in our lifetime.
Originally Posted by digitalfreaknyc
And just think about all those DVD's that you were buying when you could've already been buying the HD alternative.
how can we buy the alternative if they are not for sale?
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Old 01-03-06, 04:17 PM
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Originally Posted by chanster
In my opinion, HD-DVD will be a relatively niche market until conventional TV's are replaced by HDTVS - say 3-5 more years.
I see this argument come up repeatedly in these threads, and my response is always the same -- who cares? I can purchase and enjoy HD material even if my neighbors don't buy in. Sure, there are advantages to a larger market (wider selection of titles, lower price points, etc.), but I enjoy the end result as much if I'm one of 400,000 owners of an HD player as I would if I'd been one of 40,000,000.

I agree it'll be more of a Laserdisc-style niche, but I bought my first LD player in 1984 and enjoyed the format for more than a decade, so I don't see that as necessarily being a bad thing.
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