abintra

Sadly, add The Snow Walker to the pile of the widescreen pan and scan releases (and another which Lions Gate presumably had a hand in).

bjh_18

Several websites have the 2-disc Korean dvd up for pre-order and the specs say that the aspect ratio is 2.35:1. Pre-order information over here is often faulty and subject to constant change, but if the current release date of February 21st holds true I plan on heading to E-Mart to check it out to see if it is indeed presented in it's OAR. I'm really hoping that it is because I enjoyed the film quite a bit.

hermes10

Just what I've been waiting for. My order will go in as soon as aspect ratio is confirmed.

digitalfreaknyc

And again...i can't stress how you need to wait until it's released or find a place that will let you return. The same thing happened with The Recruit (the box even said 2.35:1). They eventually had to put stickers over the aspect ratio because I guess too many people complained. I had to send mine back to Korea.

hermes10

I won't be buying until I see a review with screen shots.

Even then there are no guarentees. I still haven't been able to obtain the "flying-bug-free" version of Mountain Patrol. I ordered the bug-free version and received the flying bug version anyway. I got a refund, but I'd prefer to get the movie.

animatedude

i really wish if the Korean version uses the poster as the artwork for the dvd....still many online retailers list the artwork as "temporary"..

DJ_Longfellow

I watched it last night....I didn't think it was horribly framed, although it's still upsetting that they cropped it a bit. I guess it was not my favorite movie, so I'm not too concerned.

Numes

I have no plans on purchasing this movie, but I have been keeping my eye on this thread since it started.

What you should be concerned about is a possible trend, and the fact that DVD companies think it is ok to not release their movies in their OAR. Just as bad is the fact that Lion's Gate and HBO (and others?) think it is ok to release/show a 2.35:1 movie in 1.78:1 and the fact that they call it widescreen means it's ok.

I'm fortunate that this did not occur on a movie that I purchased recently, but it still disturbs me to no end.

Edit: Inadvertantly put Anchor bay instead of Lion's Gate. It's too early!

Jay G.

What did Anchor Bay do?

I agree though, even if it hasn't affected a film you like yet, there's reason to be concerned and make a fuss now. Apparently not many people made a fuss about the Stage Beauty DVD a year ago, and now the altered aspect ratio has affected other films as well.

Numes

Oops. Fixed my post. I meant Lion's Gate.

movielib

I returned my R1 LoW unopened to Digital Eyes. CD Wow has an R2 (2-disc) and an R3 listed at 2.35:1 but like most of you I'll believe it when it's confirmed.

Jay G.

The R2 (2-disc) is from Momentum Pictures according to Amazon :
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/...id=1139377392/

They're the company resposible for the R2 DVD of Creep that's in OAR, while Lions Gate released the R1 in open-matte 1.78:1. Same with Stage Beauty. So there's good reason to hope that Momentum might continue the trend.

hermes10

See the thread --Evidence that Lord of War is open matte, not cropped-- for comparison images I have posted that indicate that the movie may not be cropped, and may be open matte.

If anyone knows what DVD's include a trailer for Lord of War, let me know, and I will post some additional comparisons.


http://forum.dvdtalk.com/showthread....26#post6772826

hermes10

In the other thread I referenced, Julie Waker posted links to larger images, and it looks like I was wrong: the frames are correctly matched and the sides are heavily cropped.

I'm still interested in comparing other scenes if anyone knows what DVD's have a Lord of War trailer.

whotony

Saw 2 is the same, cropped to 1.78.1.

is there a thread on that one yet?

CliffStephenson

No, and there shouldn't be. I'm assuming you're bringing this up because of Bill Hunt's post yesterday on The Digital Bits.
I've never seen such a completely misguided comment from someone supposedly "in the know." Let's break down his comments:
Review discs have been made available for at least a week now (DVDTalk posted their review on Feb.2nd). Why isn't an established site like TDB getting screeners when other sites get them? Sort of off topic, but interesting nonetheless.
Hardly the same thing as taking Lord of War from 2.35 to 1.78. The fact of the matter is that aspect ratio is not a precise science. Movie theater screens are like snowflakes; no two are going to be exactly the same. Variances such as projectionist framing might reveal a sliver more information on the top or bottom of the frame and masking will be slightly different from screen to screen. It is entirely possible (and even probable) that you would get slightly different framing of the same film in the same auditorium from showtime to showtime.
Which is entire probable as Lions Gate didn't make, nor do they own, Lord of War, they merely distributed it. It's a lot like blaming Fox because George Lucas changed Star Wars. Fox acts merely as a distributor and doesn't have final say in how the films are presented (otherwise we would have seen Star Wars DVDs several years ago).
This is perhaps the most insane statement. Every studio (EVERY STUDIO) reframes their films for video. Fox just released In Her Shoes (A 2.39 theatrical film) in an aspect ratio of 2.32:1 - That's neither the 2.39 theatrical nor the 2.35 ratio listed on the packaging. Paramount and Warner Bros. release ALL of their 1.85 films at 1.78, but I've never heard anyone say anything about that. Disney has released ALL of the Pixar 1.85 films (Toy Story 1/2, Monsters, Inc., and Finding Nemo) in a 1.78 ratio. In fact, Disney releases most of its animation in Non-OAR ratios (1.66:1/1.70:1 was not and never will be the theatrical ratios for these newer films). This is something that has been happening since the beginning of DVD, but it never became an issue with anyone until the Lord of War incident. Trust me, Lions Gate is no different than any other studio when it comes to this. Disney has done it with The Recruit and their animated films, Columbia has done it with Once Upon a Time in Mexico, Silverado (which they quickly fixed), The Governess, Nothing in Common, and Spacehunter... Even back in the laserdisc days, Cameron released The Abyss at 1.90:1 initially. Your television's overscan will do more to alter the film's aspect ratio than what the studios do. So before we light up our torches to storm one studio's gates, lets be sure we can speak intelligently about it.

animatedude

i stand behind what CliffStephenson said.ppl are just guilable.

digitalfreaknyc

Link?

Jay G.

http://www.ultimatedisney.com/oar.htm

"A similar issue is raised regarding Disney's recent animated features, which on DVD are presented in the 1.66:1 widescreen ratio. Disney's current system for animation (the CAPS program) animates these features in the 1.66:1 ratio (a compromise between the 1.85:1 theatrical ratio and the 1.33:1 ratio used for home video, so that framing will still work for both of these modified ratios). Many of these films were frequently exhibited theatrically in the more common widescreen ratio of 1.85:1. But the fact remains that they were animated for 1.66:1, so even the theatrical release compromises the animation's dimensions. In the case of these 1.66:1 films like The Emperor's New Groove, Tarzan, and Hercules, the DVD's presentation is favorable to the 1.33:1 cropped video release and the 1.85:1 matted theatrical release. In fact, the DVD is the only proper exhibition of the Original Aspect Ratio and the only way to see the entire animated frame."

CliffStephenson

Thank Jay.

digitalfreaknyc,
Don't take my word for it, do some research. There are two easy ways to check and see if a 1.85 DVD aspect ratio is 1.78 on DVD:
1) Put the DVD in your computer and watch it in a reduced window. If you see a small strip of black at the top or the bottom, it's 1.85 or close to it. If you don't see that strip, than it's 1.78.

or...

Check Widescreen Review. They accurately measure the DVD aspect ratio of every disc they review. Given that there are really only 2 generally accepted modern day theatrical aspect ratios (or 3 depending on how you feel about 2.39 vs 2.35), you'd be surprised at how many 1.78, 1.80, 1.82, 2.30, 2.32, 2.37, 2.38, and 2.40 disc there are. Take the recent double -pack reissue of Ghostbusters and Ghostbusters II. They were both shot in the same photographic process (Panavision), but the first film's DVD aspect ratio is 2.38:1 while Ghostbusters II is on DVD at 2.32:1. The biggest point to be made about this example is that no one would ever be able to tell the difference, thus the reason why no one ever complained when they were released.

Comfort Eagle

Im looking forward to renting this. I wanted to see it in theaters but missed out. Plus I loved NC in The Weatherman this past year.

bjh_18

Which is exactly why I said "Pre-order information over here is often faulty and subject to constant change." As soon as I see the movie playing in the store or down at the local rental shop, then I'll know whether it's worth picking up.

RocShemp

Huh? What happened with Silverado?

CliffStephenson

For Columbia's original DVD release of Silverado (a Super35 film), they used the open matte 1.78 transfer. After getting complaints, Columbia reissued the DVD in the correct 2.35, but without taking the original pressing off shelves, which meant that there were actually 2 widescreen releases out at the same time. This is only for the old Silverado disc released in June 1999.

Jay G.

I was about to complain that Widescreen Review requires a subscription, but it looks like the aspect ratio is one of the few details available to non-subscribers:
http://www.widescreenreview.com/dvd_...tdata=Reviewed

It's kinda amazing how some high-profile films like Charlie And The Chocolate Factory and the Batman Anthology can have altered aspect ratios of 1.78:1, yet Saw II is the DVD release that has somehow drew consumer ire.

I think this is the important point. The changing of a 1.85:1 film to 1.78:1, 1.80, or 1.82 is a change on the scale of a few percentage points, at most 4%, and not noticable to the normal viewer. It's akin to the change most 1.37:1 films undergo when cropped to 1.33:1 for video presentation, a 3% change. Complaining about these transfers isn't beneficial, and takes away from real issues like Lord of War's transfer, which is a loss of 20% of the image.