Because (a large % of) the general public will only gladly accept any crap that doesn't make them think.

because hollywood is a giant machine... which only cares about "product" and spoon feeding that product to the general population who go see a film because it was advertised while they were watching lost or desperate housewives.

all big hollywood films have the same exact formula it has been using for years to get the cattle in in droves with money in hand.

another reason why dvd rules... you get all the independant stuff from people outside the hollywood machine instead of the mindless fodder that fills the theaters.. i despise hollywood and everything it stands for right along with the mpaa.

if you want good movies you should get into "foreign films" korean,japanese,hong kong they put hollywood to shame in my humble opinion.

:hscratch:

Like others have posted, you were doing so well until this one.

Yeah, let's blame Michael Moore for the downfall of movies in movie theaters -rolleyes-

The article is tripe, but even if it was true I say good job! When I worked at a movie theater I found out that the average person doesn't even know much, if anything, about the new movies that come out anyway. With DVDs the minimum-wage paying theater lackies won't have to stand there and say things like "Um, yeah, I heard it was ok..." or "Sorry ma'am, we can't watch your four year old... especially in a rated R film."

It may seem like a small thing to some, but anyone who had to stand the wave and tear tickets during the great Spiderman opening night after standing around for 7 hours straight in uncomfortable shoes will know that movie theaters can be a dark, dark place. With DVD people can muse over what they want to watch without hurting others, and makes it much easier for over-tired parents to know what's appropriate. The article is crap anyway, I and everyone I know has seen more movies than ever- in AND out of the theater. I rented Van Helsing, but you couldn't pay me to sit and watch it on a big screen without being able to take a whole lotta breaks. Plus, whoever complains about *maybe* missing a million bucks out of 15 million + is a dipwad in my book.

I'll second the comment about the Orange County Cinedome- I never saw that theater, but when I lived near San Jose in the 70s we would go to the huge dome theaters owned by the same company. We still have two of those in Sacramento, but over 25 years ago they were both divided in half into half-dome theaters and look awful. If they were to restore those back to the way they were, I would probably go to those theaters on a weekly basis, but the way they are now I won't go to them at all. It's odd how Century has been tearing down their old theaters and building new ones in their places- they did that to another theater in the area, and it really looks like they did not put much thought into the new one. ALL the screens there have top-down masking, so the scope (WIDEscreen) movies appear on a smaller screen- like letterboxing at home. Proper screens open up from the sides. Several screens at the new theater are EXTREMELY small as well- not much bigger than a good home projection system. If they want me to pay more than $9 per person to see a movie, they are just going to have to bring back the BIG screens. Sometimes I have to wonder if some people in the business are just denying that home entertainment is a significant competitor.
Don't even get me started on the growth of in-theater advertising- I quit my job as a booth manager for Regal because of all the crap they were pushing. Seeing a paid commercial after you've already paid an arm and a leg is a slap in the face, and many of the ads are just ugly and insulting. Instead of a barrage of ads when you walk in the theater, you should see curtains closed over the screen.
I agree that there also has to be a better distribution of wealth- theaters should get to keep a lot more of the ticket prices than they currently do. It is ridiculous how the actors get paid more money than they'll ever need in their lifetime- at another theater I worked at for several years, I often resented that the actors I was putting up on the screen were getting paid millions, while at times I barely made enough to eat from showing their movies.

My wife and I were discussing this very topic the other night. I pretty much brought up all the annoyances that everyone else has mentioned so far in this thread. What she reminded me of was that young people needed theaters because it was something to do in the way of dating. "Dinner and a movie"...been around for years, and in many small towns, that's all you've got to do.

We've been depending on Netflix instead of the multiplex more and more lately. I've been disgusted by all of the things that you all have mentioned so far...prices, rude people, quality of films...on and on. Prices are probably not going to go down, let's face it. It's very discouraging.

If a new theater were to open with the following features, I'd probably have some hope (yes, I know it's a pipe-dream, but...):

Cell Phone Jamming Equipment- A notice on the front of the theater informing patrons that their cell phones will be inactive while in the theater. If you are expecting an important call or need to make one, please do so before entering...or please choose another theater. Thank you and have a nice day.

Digital Projection- This hasn't really come up in prior posts, but it seems like it's happening more and more often: the film breaks, more than once, during the presentation. Or it gets cuts up or scratched after a few weeks of play. Get DLP installed...avoid these problems.

No infants allowed- Just like the amusement parks say "You must be this tall to enter this ride". If there is any wailing and crying to be done, let it be by adults who payed full ticket price to see "Gigli".

Wide aisles between rows of seats- Set up your stadium seating with plenty of leg room between rows. That way, kicking the back of seats would be gone (unless you're sitting in front of a pro basketball player)...and people in the middle of the row getting up to go to the bathroom won't be stepping on your feet. People getting popcorn and soda on their way down the aisle won't be spilling any on you.

Have an usher in the auditorium(s)- If there is any excessive talking or laser pen usage on the screen, the offender(s) with be kindly escorted out of the auditorium.

I know it will never happen, but if I had several million bucks to build a theater, that's what I would do.

I saw a movie in DLP recently and I wasn't impressed- it looked like watching a movie through a screen door. Film CAN look infinitely better than what I saw, however most theaters just don't care enough to do it properly. Something has to be SERIOUSLY wrong to have the film break during the show (more often something else messes up that causes it to stop), and scratching happens when somebody mis-threads the film, which is an EASILY avoidable problem if you know what the hell you're doing. It only takes one time to ruin a print- I've seen it happen during a movie's first week, but I've also seen movies run for more than 3 months and still be in perfect shape. Sadly though I think we'll see improvements in DLP and have it installed in more theaters before we see any of the higher-ups at theater chains start caring more about film done right. (Side rant- last year I tried to get another theater job and was told that despite having 10 years projection experience, I would have to start out on the bottom making minimum-wage at the snack bar and work my way up later- never mind that I know TONS more than most of the people they currently have running their booth. Any theater dumb enough to let me walk away from working for them deserves to go out of business! :D )

$10-$12 over here in the city with super cold AC and small chairs.

Fuck the movie theaters I got one at home with great sound, clean enviornment...and a warm piece of ass if I get bored. lol

Digital projection sytems already exist and they will eventually change not only the way films are shown but means of distribution as well. Hollywood however, isn't too keen on seeing this happen anytime soon because their main way of controlling distribution is with the 35mm film.
So they might say they are all for it but currently insist on a ridiculous 4K resolution standard for digital projection which can only be achived at tremendous costs. Luckily, most countries aren't listening.

So, the morale to this story is, the sooner the 35 mm reel goes the way of the dodo the better because Hollywood will no longer be able to control distribution and we might finally see better films.

if a theater had all this, tickets would be double just to recoup all of the overhead costs.

Drive-ins are not the answer either, because of gang-bangers.
Something that closed down a drive-in in Chicago in the 1990's

Hey TheKing, my parents took me to the Cinedomes when I was a kid. It had those cool fountains that shot up water when you walked in, a big aracde (for a theater) and nice big screens. I saw most of my favorite movies from the 80's there. That place was rad.

In the past 8 months I've been putting together a HT for lots of reasons. Since I was old enough to go to the movies it's been a magical, wonderful experience, and I'm 45 years old so I've been going for a long long time. Up until now I've been a dedicated moviegoer, and have been taking my son to the movies at least once a month since he was old enough to go and enjoy the show (he's 13 now), but like many I've become disenchanted with the experience. Rude people bringing infants and small children either crying or yelling through half the show, cell phones going off far too often, the movies themselves not warranting the cost of going, and these days having to sit through friggin' COMMERCIALS before getting to the trailers and the movie itself. The commercials are what drove me over the edge. I'm paying to see the movie, and being made a captive audience to Coke commercials isn't what I should have to expect. The industry can whine and cry all it wants, but they and theater owners are doing their livelihood some new harms these days in an age where the average Joe can wait 3-6 months for a DVD release and the ability to see the film on 65 inch (and much bigger) home screens, presented in wonderful audio formats, without spending money on gas, parking, standing in line, dealing with the elements, adjusting our schedule to their showtimes, and paying STUPID prices for a bag of popcorn and a soft drink. Since buying my new HDTV we've gone this year twice, in part because they hold their tentpole releases back till summer or Christmas and throw out 5-8 movies you want to see within a matter of a few weeks, and in part because they're pricing themselves out of what I used to see as alot of fun for the money.
My son and I took in Star Wars Ep. III last friday night. $27 for 2 people with a bag of popcorn and 2 soft drinks. Add in the cost of gas to get to the theater and I can pretty much expect to pick up two new DVDs at sale price on release day, two movies that will be mine to watch as many times as I want on a big screen with superb sound. I go to the movies to enjoy the movie, not watch commercials, not listen to cellphones ringing, not hear babies cry or young punks yell and raise general hell. I've seen debates in this forum about what age kids should be taken to the movies, how cellphone ettiquette is something that is subjective.... and heard the lamentations that it's the parents' money/ right to go with screaming infants just like it is mine, and heard people rationalizing why cellphones are acceptable in theaters....the difference is when I go, I keep my mouth shut and watch the movie without disturbing the other patrons. As long as the theater owners won't address these issues in a real way, people like me aren't going to matter- rude/ disturbing habits will rule the day. I suppose staying home and no longer dealing with them is my form of protest, and my concession to the ones who feel noisemaking is okay inside the theater doors. These days I only go half as often and the rest of the time I'm getting a WHOLE lot more bang for my buck by watching movies in the comfort of my living room. I HAVE to pay taxes, but I don't have to go to the movies and pay higher prices for less enjoyment.

The initial investment in a good large screen TV or projector is considerable (but dropping more and more), and putting together decent audio isn't cheap, but once you've done so, you have a place to watch movies and concerts for a fraction of the cost without the hassle of doing so on the silver screen. For those of us who can afford to build something approaching a home theater the theater/ movie industry is making our choice easier for us when it comes to going to the theater tomorrow or buying the DVD in 3 months.

Amen. Ticket prices around here have gone up ~50% in the last five years with increases in concession prices and the addition of "pre-show entertainment." Needless to say this hasn't been accompanied by any improvements in the theatres themselves.

As much as I can enjoy the theatre experience, despite the normal non-cost drawbacks, it is a terrible value compared to DVD. I used to see 30 movies a year there and now it's more like 10.

Fuck theatres.

I'll agree with what's posted above:

* DLP should make it into a lot more theaters.
* Crowds have become more rude.
* Presentation quality is too variable.
* Personally, I've gone to the theater a few times in 2005, largely because of DVD and because I'm tired of the crowds, as well as the reason below.
* The list goes on.

That said, here's my opinion:

I don't know about the rest of the country (although I do know about the Ziegfield in NYC), but I'll use downtown Chicago as an example:

All the movie palaces are gone, as well as anything resembling one.

The one theater most resembling a palace - McClurg Court - was closed in 2003. Seeing something - anything - at McClurg Court felt "special", like an event. The basement auditorium, which seated 800 people and had incredible slightlines and screen, was a thing of beauty for someone who loves movies. The theater was originally one large auditorium that seated over 1,000 when it opened in the 70's (eventually, the balcony space was made into two smaller, but still quite nice theaters). The basement theater was THX-certified and you walked down this long corridor to get to the screen, which just served to build the excitement further. The sound system in the theater was nothing short of spectacular, as were the accoustics. Presentation quality always seemed cared about, as the only time I can remember a problem was on a 90+ degree day seeing "Armageddon" there (I know, but again, seeing anything there was a treat) where it was so hot out they were having power problems.

In terms of box office, McClurg Court was often in the top 100 theaters in the country for films like "Titanic" (If I remember correctly, it was in the top 25 for "Titanic"). Lines for major movies would sometimes be more then 2 city blocks long, but you didn't care, cause it was McClurg and everyone - and I mean <I>everyone</I> - in that line felt that excitement about seeing a movie there. I hate to use the word "giddy", but it's accurate. I'll never forget when McClurg showed "Independence Day" just about every hour straight for the first 72 hours of release.

River East 21 nearby is fine, if ridiculously expensive (and I still hate it for being a prime reason for McClurg's closing) and I am greatly impressed that Cineplex Odeon did a top-to-bottom redo of 600 N. Michigan, but neither get me excited about going to a movie like McClurg did.

So, to make a long story short, I wish chains would stop thinking about how many auditoriums they could fit under one roof and concentrate on making at least a few of those auditoriums a large, grand place to go see a picture. Giving a larger percentage of the gross to theaters would help to bring costs down and likely make a visit more pleasant in several ways, but I don't think it'll happen.

DVD and the fact that movies just aren't very good lately are two prime reasons given why people dont' go to the movies much anymore, but I'd be willing to bet that a large chunk of audience isn't thrilled with being stuffed into a cookie-cutter shoebox in a 30-screen theater (not to mention the fact that the sound may not be great, etc) to see the latest movies.

Theaters forget that they can also be a big part creating the excitement of going to the movies. Their big change doesn't have to be some sort of gimmick, like 3-D, it's hopefully going to be a return to a former era of moviegoing, only with today's technology behind the experience.

Sonic, you hopeless romantic, you :)

Actually, one thing that is really scaring movie theater owners is the arrival of (likely) 1080-line high-definition DVD's in the HD-DVD and/or Blu-Ray formats in the second half of 2006. At that resolution, the picture on your rear-projection TV will be incredibly sharp, and that could really discourage movie theater patronage. Why bother with rude audiences, overly-expensive tickets and concessions and subpar sound and picture quality at a movie theater when your home theater experience will actually be better than a movie theater for the most part?

I think one of the biggest factors in declining ticket sales for movies is the short window from the theaters to DVD. Sometimes it's as short as 3 months, and it is rarely longer than 6-7 months. People know that they won't have to wait long to be able to buy the movie for less money than two movie tickets.

If the wait was more like 12-18 months people would probably be more likely to go see movies in the theaters.

And if the studios could find a way to work out better deals for the theater chains maybe ticket prices could drop a little (since the studios get such a large percentage of the ticket revenues). If more people showed up, and for a longer period of time (4-8 weeks as opposed to the 3-4 weeks that movies seem to run now), everyone would come out at least even on revenue, and maybe even ahead - even with lower ticket prices (lower prices, but a lot more sold).

With the amount of money that the studios are making on DVDs now it almost seems like the theatrical run is merely an advertisement for their DVD releases.

Of course, as noted before, if Hollywood would also put out better movies they might actually see more ticket revenues. It seems like the crap movie to good movie ratio has gone up in the last couple of years (that's only my impression, not a statement of fact).

With so many contributing factors it's no wonder the movie ticket sales are down.

Actually, there's another trend that has hurt ticket sales: the fact that DVD releases are frequently edited differently than the theatrical version, which means movie fans want the version that was originally intended by the director most of the time.

With no contraints for time and/or getting the proper MPAA rating, movies on DVD tend to be longer. For example, the three Lord of the Rings films in the longer Extended Editions are in many ways far better films than the theatrical version (though in the case of LoTR the EE versions are designed for completists, whatever that meant).

While there are some notable cases of extended editions available on DVD, it seems to me the bulk of DVDs are simply the theatrical cut.

It's interesting to me that, all of a sudden, people don't like to go to the theaters (though it's likely more people will attend movies at the theater this year than did the year before DVDs were introduced).

From the article:

Discs are now released just four months after a film's debut, and the barrage of advertising that accompanies the opening in movie theaters serves ultimately as a marketing campaign for the DVD, where the studios tend to make most of their profits.

Of course, cut out the theatrical revenues and the number of DVDs they have to sell to become profitable becomes higher, often significantly.

It's mainly that they want to strike while the iron is hot. Squeezing in the marketing for the theater run with potentially the marketing of the dvd in some sense so it's never really out of your mind like it used to be with a 9 month wait window.

People would also probably get way pissed at a strongarm tactic that attempts to force them to go to the theater. Also, the industry would be shooting DVD sales and rentals in the foot because they've created a market for themselves in that short window to DVD area. Say they started that policy next week. What would happen to DVD sales for the 12- 18 month period after they started adhering to that schedule? Prop up theater attendance by holding back DVD sales and rentals and that cash cow will be giving less milk. It's inevitable that some area is going to decline, and the obvious one is the one that makes the customer jump through the most hoops.

If they want people going to more movies throughout the year, then they need to climb out of the dark ages and stop saving all their tentpole releases for either summertime blockbuster attendance or Christmastime and Oscar consideration. People watch movies 12 months a year, not the few months they designate as big profitmakers. Break up the tentpole releases so people have a movie to look forward to every few weeks to a month, rather than making them have to decide which of the 6 or so movies in the month of June they're going to go see or just wait on the DVD release.

I go to the theaters at least a few times a year,but never on a monthly/regular basis.

Costs and my work/school schedules usually hold me back. I love seeing revivals whenever I can. But even that can be a pain in the ass. So it's best to just watch the dvd instead. But it is fun seeing films in theaters with decent audiences on a very large screen.

So I don't think it will ever be 'killed',but just needs some better management and affordable prices.


I only saw three movies in theaters this year so far.


Meanwhile upcoming movies I will definitely go out of my way to catch in theaters are High Tension,Land of the Dead and The Devils Rejects. I have been anticipating those films alot more than Revenge of the Sith(which I still have not seen:)).

Everything being released at the moment,I will either skip or catch eventually(either on dvd or at a dollar theater). Oh and I still have'nt seen the second and third Lord of the Rings films,nor am I in know hurry after being unimpressed with the first film.



Oh and politics will never keep me away from a film. So I think Ray was looking for a frivilous thing to blame in that case. You say the controversy over Moores film 'caused' this. Well then what about the huge(misguided) controversy over The Passion? Did that drive away audiences? Hmmm,I saw that film and liked it btw...and yes I am a "bad" liberal.

Film attendence and box office profits have been going down because of the many other realistic reasons,people stated earlier. Politics has nothing to do with it,and it is stupid to put the blame on that. But people will put the blame on anything it seems as evidenced in your post.

Actually, prior to this year, profits would only have been down because movies were more expensive. Box office revenues have gone up consistently every year since 1992 (1991 and 1992 were down years revenue-wise. Other than that, only 1985 and 1980 had down years, revenue-wise, since 1980).

Box office revenues were up in 2004 by $1 billion over 2001 and were nearly twice what they were in 1992.

Thw downward trend of the last couple of years has been in ticket sales, not in box office revenues (2005 has seen a drop in revenues over 2004 so far, but the year isn't over yet).

Many interesting and very valid reasons (most of which I understand and agree with).

However, my family's reason for avoiding the cinemas more than we do now? The number one reason is the loud, annoying, foul-mouthed youth (and I'm only 26) whom are potentially too violent if confronted. Which is also why complaints to the management are useless as they are afraid of what may happen if they approach the monstrous individuals. :(