US Appleseed DVD audio problem
 

There is growing consensus that this DVD has an audio mixing problem. Many have noticed that the sound effects lacks punch with poor dynamic range and bass, almost as if its been dynamically compressed. The musical score, on the other hand, is mixed too loudly often overpowering the sound effects, especially on the Japanese tracks. The DTS track sounds too rear heavy and front light, very light.

I got a hold of the Japanese release of Appleseed and can hear a distinct difference in the sound mixes. The sfx on the Japanese version sounds as you would expect, high impact with good dynamic range, while the same scene on the US release sounds compressed and muffled.

If you are experiencing this problem contact:

1. Geneon/Pioneer @ 310.952.2406
2. [email protected]

For any hopeful news on this issue, check:
- www.rightstuf.com
- www.animeondvd.com
- and here

Here is a summary of user's comments to this problem taken from the following thread:
http://www.dvdtalk.com/forum/showthr...3&page=2&pp=25

Skull wrote:
"it seems like the sound fades out during some parts of the action sequences"

Dullboy wrote:
"It's true, the rears are mixed way louder than the front channels, on all tracks. It kinda sucks when you see someone shooting on screen, and then it cuts to the person (or robot) being shot at and the bullet fire sounds so much louder coming through the rears than it did when the gun was actually on screen. Check out the first scene where the ESWAT shoot Duenan with the stun bullets. When the propeller-type bullets explode out of the gun, it's no where near as loud as when you see them racing from behind her right up to the hit."

gbub wrote:
"I'd agree it has poor audio. I've never actually complained about the audio on a DVD (well I guess except for the Jurassic Park DTS), but I thought this one has a problem. I'd agree the L/R fronts are at a different level or over-compressed. At one point a character says something that starts in the left speaker and can barely be heard but the voice travels towards the center and then can be heard more and more clearly. Gunfire also just had no oomph to it. If this was the intended mix I don't know what they were thinking. If not I'd say it's of recall level, but it seems like the company that distributed this DVD is too small to be able to afford that.

Could this be a defect with some of the DVDs? I don't understand why the 2 reviews on DVDTalk don't mention this audio issue."

raining_helper wrote:
"I have to agree with some of the people here that the audio was a bit peculiar in the front speakers. Watching the opening sequence, the front speaker action sounded muted. And as someone mentioned above, a gunshot from the front speakers sounds weak, and then that same sound effect after a cut, was louder in the rear. I found it was the worst with the two Japanese mixes, so I ended up watching the film with the Dolby dub. I am not an audio expert, but to my ear there was something wrong."

flashburn wrote:
"Glad to see I am not the only one who thinks there is a problem with the audio. It was pretty distracting with how low the fronts were mixed, versus how much louder the rears and the music is mixed. I can't see Geneon doing anything about this, as there will be many people that won't even notice this."

RocShemp wrote:
"In both Japanese tracks, dialogue and sound effects are very muted. The only thing that sounds clear is the music. I don't dare crank up the sound any louder because the music is so damn loud. Whereas in the English track, the dialogue is boosted and so are the sound effects. For example, gunfire that would sound hohum in either Japanese track is given an extra boost in the English track. It's not a lot but it's enough to not be a nuisance as is either Japanese track.

I should also mention that the surrounds sound perfectly fine in either Japanese track as the problems are from the front soundstage."

mmccking wrote:
"The video between the R2 and US releases are also different, the R2 wins hands down. The US release has some serious macro blocking and banding compared to the R2, i.e., when the guy's head gets crushed in the intro, the R1 release has banding all over, the R2 is much much cleaner.

The intro fight/escape is where most of the video "problems" are, it's hard to watch the R1's intro after viewing the R2. There is so much ghosting, macro blocking and banding problems on the R1 release that never distracted me while watching the R2 release.

I do agree, the audio mix on the US English DD track is not as bad as the DTS track, however, it still sounds compressed, but less so since the music score is mixed at a relatively lower volume from the sound effects than the larger DTS music/sfx ratio. The R2 release's sound effects and dynamic range appears as good as you would expect from a modestly budgeted US action flick. It's got punch and dynamics that match much of my expectations whereas the US release sounds just plain wrong and hugely disappointing."

Adam_Tyner wrote:
"the music was extremely loud and overwhelmed everything else, yet you have these tumbling tanks and explosions that have considerably less LFE. I didn't get that impression from any other scene in the movie, so I can only guess it was a conscious decision to dial down the bass of the sound effects there to make the music as prominent as possible. The only other way in which the use of LFE seemed strange to me was with gunfire. Almost every other sound effect in the movie packs a pretty decent wallop, but gunfire sounds really thin, and at one point, I swear it sounded as if they forgot to mix in any audio at all for it."

RocShemp wrote:
"at first I thought as you, Adam Tyner, but just check out the scenes with the elders. If you hear them in the surrounds they sound loud (sometimes too loud) and clear but if they're ever on screen they sound as if they are miles away.

A similar problem occurs when Athena is addressing the council. When General Uranus speaks off screen, he sounds extremely loud from the surrounds but when he's onscreen his voice is just a few notches above a whisper in a scene where he's clearly not whispering.

Finally, the final action sequence is only bearable because the surrounds tend to make up for the pathetic front soundstage. But try disconnecting your surrounds and you'll hear how poorly the front sound is mixed."

flashburn wrote:
To Adam_Tyner "Try watching some scenes again, as the entire movie has the audio problem."

steebo777 wrote:
"I just watched this and experienced everything mentioned here. I kept switching the tracks just to compare and see if I was crazy because I didn't know there was an initial problem. It is kind of rediculous that this was released like this. Two in a month for me (Primer and Appleseed) of defective mastering or disc."

mmccking wrote:
"Contact 310.952.2406, that's Pioneer/Geneon the producers of the DVD. I spoke to Kevin on 5/17/05 and he said he'll have his Appleseed producer and QA folks look into it."

There are others who don't seem to have this problem or it doesn't bother them. Generally its been reviewers who say there is no problem. Perhaps their NFR disks were taken from a different master than the retail disks, or some of the retail disks since we're not sure if this problem is with all disks or a limited number of them.

Just one advice: forget the US tracks and listen to the Original Japanese one!

The problem happens on all 3 tracks. The post refers to the US release, not the Japanese release.

By the way, great job mmccking.

Just sent off my email with the complaint.

Not sure what you mean by macro blocking and banding. I just watched this sequence again to see what you're talking about and I don't detect any abnormal video problem other than strange use of focusing.

I just received a response.

It's pretty basic but at least I know they received my complaint.

Rightstuf is simply taking customer services requests and forwarding them to Geneon, since Geneon doesn't really have a customer service department.

Btw, here is the animeondvd thread discussing the audio problem.

http://forums.animeondvd.com/showfla...d&sb=5&o=&vc=1

I picked up this dvd yesterday and it was a great movie. I didn't really pay attention to the mixing problems but if you guys say there is then I too shall add my name to the list.

Great movie nonetheless

Some good news. Just received a response to my email this afternoon.
Word. Quick response and action Geneon... now let's hope they follow through with it.

Geneon is usually slow to getting discs corrected, let alone sending them out. I hope they do get to their acts promptly since it is a rather prominent release affecting a broader base of customers, as opposed to their regular anime releases targeted at a smaller market.

Once replacement info is posted, I'll tag it to the top of the review.

I can't bring myself to lower the audio rating (my disk sounds fine). But if the replacement copy doesn't solve the problem, I'll gladly revisit the issue.

::fingers crossed::

I only have a stereo setup, but the speech in the movie seemed so knocked back and was nowhere near as "front and center" as it should have been. I kept taking me out of the movie as I was mentally thinking the entire time how bad it sounded. I had to turn up my speakers more for this movie than any other I own just to make out what people were saying.

Fixed! :D

I have watched half of the movie so far with the Japanese DTS track. There is definitely a problem, but I find it to be mainly with the center channel. Even when I set the volume of all other channels to 0db and set center to +10db, dialogue from that speaker was just slightly lower than dialogue from the left/right and surrounds. In scenes where the camera is stationary, but characters move from right to left, dialogue goes from clear to 'tin-like and quiet' to clear again. Lots of on-screen action is very quiet or silent, while explosions are bass-heavy, but empty-sounding, if that makes sense. There's no problem with my speaker, as I've watched other films without having to turn it up so high (ie: Team America).

Now that Geneon have acknowledged the problem, I don't think I'll e-mail Rightstuf about it. I'll wait for further information.

Just finished watching this DVD and felt that the dialoque is within my expectation,not as suggested by some fellow members of needing to up their volume or adjust the db of the centre speaker. But do agree that the gun shots a bit less punchy and I only
watched the english version. Will have to watch the original Japanese version DD & DTS to compare.

All in all it's really a great 3DCG Anime,audio aside the video transfer is just brillant. It's
clean clear and crisp and up till now am not an anime fan but it since convert me. The
only other anime in my collection is The Animatrix.

Well looks like have to spend spend spend again.

Can't say I agree with the video critiques. I see obvious banding and some line twitter on occasion. The banding is probably the biggest issue. The audio is also poorly mixed with the music way too predominant and the dynamics not nearly what they should be. The opening sequence pretty much tells the whole tale too.

My system tends to be quite revealing and there is definately nothing in my component chain that would be causing these issues.

I agree, the banding is distracting, however, it isn't norma gradient banding that you would see in something the like water of Finding Nemo. From what I've noticed on the Appleseed DVD, the banding always seems to originate from a large radiating source at the top middle of the screen. This is especially noticeable on the scene where you see the back of the mech that crushes the guy's head in the intro.

On the audio front, all people I have demo'd this disk to have noticed problems with the audio. Granted only a few noticed it right away while the others reflected back to it after I demo'd something else like the Incredibles.

I realize I'm beating a dead horse, but I feel better letting it out of my system, thanks! :)

Hey, so long as everyone is aware that there is a problem and, in turn, Geneon gets the ball rolling with replacement discs, vent away. ;)

It's not a dead horse until the replacement program is set up. Like this entire Innocence replacement program with Dreamworks ... that horse is alive and kicking.

I thought the Innocence issue was resolved. Wasn't it?

No, copies of the disc on store shelves still have the faulty subtitles and Dreamworks/Go Fish have stopped responding to people's requests for exchanges.

I only did my exchange in the last month. It took them a week to replace my disc. Are you sure that they're stonewalling now?

That sucks. I was holding out until the issue was resolved. Anyway to buy the film with the subtitles already corrected (like from a legit online vendor)?

Since the beginning of the year, I've requested a mailer envelope three times without response. In the GitS2 thread, several people who actually mailed their defective copies to the studio have been complaining that a replacement never came.

No, there are copies on store shelves that have a "V4" indicator on the security sticker, which is supposed to mean that it's a corrected copy, but the discs inside are not V4.

There is no reliable way to get a corrected copy of this movie.

They exchanged mine last month as well.